Talk:2023 Kerala bombing

Contested deletion

This article should not be speedy deleted as being recently created, having no relevant page history and duplicating an existing English Wikipedia topic, because:

i. Kalamassery convention centre bombing article is the one that was created after this article's creation and was a duplication of this article. Hence, that article has already been merged into this article.

ii. This article's title is WP:CONCISE therefore no Move is required either. | Pirate of the High Seas (talk) 18:31, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

Why are you trying to cut paste multiple users coontributions into this. You copied from that article and making it redirect here. And according to namiing,artticle should be having wp:presise name. DSP2092 (👤, 🗨️) 18:54, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

Please learn to read a bit and stop removing the CSD A10 template from that article which clearly says "do not remove this notice from pages that you have created yourself". Otherwise, you will be reported. | Pirate of the High Seas (talk) 19:45, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

Given that text has been copied, neither page should be deleted. I've redirected the other page here though, this is the original and master copy of the article.  — Amakuru (talk) 21:37, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

Requested move 29 October 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Reading Beans (talk) 19:22, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

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2023 Kerala bombing → Kalamassery convention centre bombing – Per WP:PRECISE, the location should be specified; Kerala is far too large an area for the title. Jim 2 Michael (talk) 22:11, 29 October 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. Polyamorph (talk) 15:30, 6 November 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. Reading Beans (talk) 18:23, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose. WP:PRECISE actually says the opposite of that the nomination is implying it says. The wording is "Usually, titles should unambiguously define the topical scope of the article, but should be no more precise than that." So 2023 Kerala bombing is fine. It also matches the way actual sources are describing it, as can be seen by looking down the list of references - they all say it was in Kerala, not in Kalamassery - and that's what's important here in terms of establishing a WP:COMMONNAME and recognizability.  — Amakuru (talk) 22:58, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

The article has 10 refs, 3 of which include Kalamassery in their titles. We don't call the Dunblane massacre the 1996 Scotland massacre or the Port Arthur massacre the 1996 Tasmania massacre. Jim 2 Michael (talk) 01:15, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

Exactly, the majority of refs do not use Kalamassery, whereas nearly all do say Kerala. So WP:COMMONNAME and WP:RECOGNIZE says we should use Kerala. We don't call the Dunblane massacre the "Scotland massacre" because that's not what sources call it. Whereas in this case, they are calling it Kerala. This is similar to the case discussed in Talk:2016 Munich knife attack#Requested move 10 May 2019 where we stuck with the Munich knife attack even though some editors said it was more precisely in Grafing. Cheers  — Amakuru (talk) 08:17, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

Calling Kalamasherry/ Ernakulam Jehovah's Witness Bomb blast as Kerala Bombing is like calling Mumbai 26/11 Maharashtra Gun Fight. Lets apply consistency in the naming scheme guys. Kerala is one of the big states in India with a 400+ km long coastline, I can understand applying the name of the state if Kerala was a City State or a 2 district State like Goa or Sikkim. Roaly (talk) 15:04, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

• 2023 Kerala bombing → 2023 Kalamassery Convention Centre Blast.

This incident took place at the public landmark Kalamassery In the name of this article

There is no need to use Kerala. News links have mentioned Kalamassery, this incident is known more through news and is in Indian area It closes this discussion by announcing that this article is undergoing a name change (talk) 13:23, 30 October 2023 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Spworld2 (talk • contribs) 07:56, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

@Spworld2: firstly, please don't move the article while this discussion is still ongoing - it will be closed in due course by an uninvolved editor, after at least seven days of running. Secondly, per my points above, media are generally denoting this as having taken place in Kerala, rather than the more specific Kalamassery, so our title should follow suit per WP:COMMONNAME.  — Amakuru (talk) 08:17, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

• Support@Amakuru, The title needs to be revised. The use of the title '2023 Kerala bombing' is not appropriate. While the location is specified within the article's content, it is not suitable to name the article after an entire state, particularly one as densely populated in India. It would be more suitable to change it to '2023 Ernakulam bombing' at the very least. Ajayraj890 Ajayraj890 (talk) 11:46, 30 October 2023 (UTC)(talk) 11:31, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

@Amakuru: Kalamassery is a well-known public land mark in India, it is in Kochi Metro Politic City, the news headline is mostly about Kalamassery, so this is a Kalamassery Incident, knowing more about this Kerala area.The reason for saying so strongly This link can be clicked for reference Spworld2 (talk) 08:32, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

It doesn't need the year, convention & centre shouldn't be capitalised & bombing is more precise than blast. Jim 2 Michael (talk) 12:29, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

@Jim 2 Michael, what about changing it into Kalamasseri blast 2023? The year is indeed an important factor. Ajayraj890 (talk) 15:29, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

I think it better to specify the type of venue rather than the year. If the year is included, it should be at the beginning of the title. Bombing is more accurate than blast. Jim 2 Michael (talk) 15:51, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

However, there is a need to consider a title change. The cited references for this event are derived from news media, which often aim to convey information quickly and efficiently to their audience. In doing so, they might use "Kerala" instead of "Kalamassery" for simplicity, as Kerala is a widely recognized state. However, it's important to note that using "Kerala" alone as the title is overly broad. It would be akin to using "Battle of Iraq" instead of "Battle of Gaugamela" simply because it is more widely recognized. Ajayraj890 (talk) 16:08, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

Yes, there's the same problem with 2023 Odisha train collision, which should be 2023 Balasore train collision. Most of the world hasn't heard of Balasore or Kalamassery, so the media more often use the names of the states they're in. Jim 2 Michael (talk) 17:56, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

• Support. I suggest 2023 Kalamassery bombing or as Kalamassery convention centre blast. Scope of the article is similar to that of the Elathur train attack. VIBHAATH GUDTROT (talk) 19:44, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
• Support So I do I agree with @Amakuru:'s rationale - most of the sources, even the ones from Indian-based news sources are referencing Kerala, not Kalamassery. But I also think a few other aspects of WP:CRITERIA are relevant here, specifically recognizability and naturalness, especially for those familiar (not an expert) with the subject. Also Consistency – The title is consistent with the pattern of similar articles' titles. For every single US school shooting, we use the town and/or the name of the school, never the state, for the very reason that multiple events could happen in the state and WP:Precision applies Schwinnspeed (talk) 15:49, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

  Wrong. Most of the media is reffering it as Kalamasherry Bombings or Blasts. Please dont assume that Delhi Media as "most of the media", Noida media stopped reporting this news once the name of the perp came out, its being widely discussed in Kerala media now. Kalamasherry or Ernakulam Bombing is the correct name. Roaly (talk) 15:06, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

  @Roaly I would suggest naming and linking to specific source (and or news media outlets) instead of using broad terms non-specific terms like "Delhi media" and "Noida media". -- Sohom (talk) 16:22, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

  I would suggest you ask the fellow who made the claim that media is using the term Kerala and not Kalamsherry to prove his point with sources. Thanks. Roaly (talk) 17:48, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. | Pirate of the High Seas (talk) 19:21, 1 November 2023 (UTC)WP:SOCKSTRIKE – robertsky (talk) 12:04, 13 November 2023 (UTC)]]
• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME, Kalamassery is not a well known name, and it doesn't ring a bell even for people like me who have spent a lot of time in India (but never specifically in Kerala), unlike say Calicut or Kochi. -- Sohom (talk) 23:16, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

  How familiar are you with a place name called Elathur? VIBHAATH GUDTROT (talk) 08:32, 2 November 2023 (UTC)

  I'm not familiar with Elathur before this was brought up. Claiming that other stuff is wrongly named, so this should, be is not a good defense. Sohom (talk) 09:08, 2 November 2023 (UTC)

• Support Kerala is a state and this event took place only in a small area of ​​a district (Ernakulam district) of Kerala, so the area where this event took place (Kalamassery) is Notability municipality Town. The appropriate name is Kalamassery convention center bombing User:Spworld2 (talk) 09:08, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

  It is not bombing. It must be 'blast(s)'. bombing is large scale action committed during a military or terrorist operations, like the Bombing of Tokyo during the World War 2. The kalamasssery incident didn't cause major explosion damage to the buildings or its properties. Even the deaths in this case was caused by burns from ignited petrol. In a 'bombing' you will see human body remains scattered around and building and/or vehicles torn into pieces; nothing of that sort happened here. VIBHAATH GUDTROT (talk) 10:35, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

• Support It's obvious. Kerala is a large geographical area, a state, while the bombing happened at a hall in Kalamasserry. It's misleading. --The Doom Patrol (talk) 10:02, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

  Even the word 'bombing' is misleading. 'Blast' is the right word. 'Bombing' is something allies did to Nazi Germany or what US did to Japan. I dont know which genius of a person created this article. VIBHAATH GUDTROT (talk) 10:24, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

Relisting comment: Amakuru is opposing. Why are people supporting per Amakuru? Reading Beans (talk) 18:23, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

Support Roaly (talk) 18:13, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

References

Duplicate article issue

Draft:2023 Kerala blasts was created first and 2023 Kerala bombing which was created later, both refer to same incident. Should we do a CSD or merger? Thewikizoomer (talk) 10:59, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

That draft is a tiny stub which should be deleted. Jim 2 Michael (talk) 12:29, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

The word 'bombing' is not appropriate

'Bombing' is a term used in for large scale military or terrorist operations. (see Bombing of Tokyo, 1993 World Trade Center bombing, NATO bombing of Yugoslavia etc.). VIBHAATH GUDTROT (talk) 12:31, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

Requested move 30 November 2023

2023 Kerala bombing → Kalamassery Convention Centre Blast – Per WP:PRECISE, This incident which took place in a municipality town in a district(Ernakulam district) of Kerala is very lax to give the name "Kerala Bombing". If this kind of incident happens in many places in Kerala on the same day or at the same hour, it is appropriate to give such a name (Kerala Bombing). Kalamassery) being an event, it is apt to call it "Kalamassery Convention Center Blast". (talk) 5:17, 30 November 2023 (UTC)