Talk:Mauree Turner: Difference between revisions

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Revision as of 21:03, 28 March 2023 edit TulsaPoliticsFan (talk \| contribs) Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users 21,772 edits add header ← Previous edit		Latest revision as of 17:46, 6 November 2024 edit undo Tom.Reding (talk \| contribs) Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Page movers, Template editors 3,531,616 edits m merge blp/living/activepol params into blp=activepol; cleanup Tag: AWB
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Line 1: {{~~talkheader~~Talk header}} {{Article pronouns\|they\|them\|source={{section link\|\|Pronouns}}}} {{MOS-NB}} {{WikiProject banner shell \|~~living~~blp=~~yes~~activepol \|class=Start\|listas=Turner, Mauree\|1= {{WikiProject Biography~~\|activepol=yes \|class=Start \|listas=Turner, Mauree \|living=yes~~ \|politician-work-group=yes \|needs-photo=no \|needs-infobox=nno}} {{WikiProject ~~LGBT~~LGBTQ+ studies ~~\|class=Start~~ \|person=yyes}} {{WikiProject Islam ~~\|class=Start~~ \|importance=Low}} {{WikiProject Oklahoma ~~\|class=Start~~ \|importance=Low}} {{WikiProject African diaspora ~~\|class=Start~~ \|importance=Low}} {{WikiProject Women ~~\|class=Start~~}} {{WikiProject Women in Red\|173}} }} ~~{{WIR-173}}~~ {{DYK talk\|30 November\|2020\|entry= ... that '''[[Mauree Turner]]''' is the first publicly [[Non-binary gender\|non-binary]] individual elected to a [[State legislature (United States)\|U.S. state legislature]]?\|nompage=Template:Did you know nominations/Mauree Turner}} ~~== Not to standards ==~~ Reading through the article, I think there's a good bit of work needed before this can get out of stub territory. Having a public figure such as a congressperson's date of birth be "1992 or 1993" and age be a range of two years is no where near worthy of an article, and with zero source to show where those facts come from, it's better off just not being mentioned at all than the way it currently is. I'll be axing the date of birth stuff and leave it blank until an actual source can be found giving their date of birth. More over, until this page can become more than simple statements and minimal sourcing, I don't see how it can't be a stub. No doubt it can become a phenomenal Wikipedia page, but with the assured new visitors who will come here to learn about this record setting congressperson this isn't what we should be giving them. ~~[[User:System Lag\|System Lag]] ([[User talk:System Lag\|talk]]) 03:28, 6 November 2020 (UTC)~~ ~~:A range of two years when the exact date is unknown is entirely normal.--[[User:Pokelova\|Pokelova]] ([[User talk:Pokelova\|talk]]) 06:07, 6 November 2020 (UTC)~~ ==Did you know nomination== {{~~Template:~~Did you know nominations/Mauree Turner}} ==Pronouns== ===First consensus=== {{Discussion top\|Consensus to use feminine (she/her/hers) pronouns. — [[User:Twassman\|Twassman]] [[[User_talk:Twassman\|Talk]]·[[Special:Contributions/Twassman\|Contribs]]] 20:40, 24 February 2021 (UTC)}} Line 53 ⟶ 46: {{Discussion bottom}} ===Current consensus=== {{Discussion top\|reason=Consensus for she/her pronoun usage in March 2021. Article changes to they/them pronoun usage per [[MOS:GENDERID]] by October 2021 after new sources were added sometime between March and October 2021. [[User:TulsaPoliticsFan\|TulsaPoliticsFan]] ([[User talk:TulsaPoliticsFan\|talk]]) 21:14, 28 March 2023 (UTC)}} :The pronouns have been changed several times since this small thread concluded (including today; the article currently uses ''they''/''them'' as a result of the most recent change), probably by well-meaning users who assume all nonbinary people use ''they'' or assume Turner would prefer ''they'' because it seems to be listed first in e.g. the representative's twitter bio. Turner's website uses ''she''/''her''. I can't find anything else which clearly indicates a preference one way or the other, and recent news coverage is mostly too brief to use any pronouns, although [https://www.enidnews.com/news/state/bills-affecting-oklahomas-transgender-community-stall/article_50bbb728-88f8-11eb-8f46-0b561e15b64f.html this] mentions and uses only ''they''/''them'' and discusses how people misgender Turner, so maybe the writer has some more recent information (or maybe not). [[User:-sche\|-sche]] ([[User talk:-sche\|talk]]) 01:46, 26 March 2021 (UTC) Line 70 ⟶ 65: :::::::::::No, you and the APA cannot be right about this, and there is a simple reason why. If it is proper to say, when speaking of Mauree Turner, "They are nonbinary", then it must also be correct to say, "Mauree Turner are nonbinary", but no one would ever say that. In the English language there is no ultimate authority, and that includes the AP stylebook, which is very much a captive of politics and trends (note the capitalization of "black", as in black people). :::::::::::I have still made a strong argument why Gender Speak should be avoided by Wikipedia. And by the way, I was once a happy and productive Wikipedia editor until I realized the site is controlled by cliques of editors with political, religious and social agendas. The contents of the encyclopedia are determined by whoever wins the editing wars. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures\|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/24.38.185.65\|24.38.185.65]] ([[User talk:24.38.185.65#top\|talk]]) 03:41, 27 October 2021 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> {{Discussion bottom}} ~~==Wiki Education assignment: Women and Politics==~~ {{dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment \| course = Wikipedia:Wiki_Ed/University_of_Nebraska_Lincoln/Women_and_Politics_(Fall) \| assignments = [[User:PsycStudent 13\|PsycStudent 13]] \| start_date = 2022-08-22 \| end_date = 2022-12-09 }} ~~<span class="wikied-assignment" style="font-size:85%;">— Assignment last updated by [[User:PsycStudent 13\|PsycStudent 13]] ([[User talk:PsycStudent 13\|talk]]) 17:26, 28 September 2022 (UTC)</span>~~ == Censure of Mauree Turner == {{Resolved\|Updated article with March 2023 censure. [[User:TulsaPoliticsFan\|TulsaPoliticsFan]] ([[User talk:TulsaPoliticsFan\|talk]]) 21:17, 28 March 2023 (UTC)}} The Oklahoma House of Representatives has censured Mauree Turner as of 3/7/23 which can be found here: [https://www.okhouse.gov/posts/news-20230307_1]https://www.okhouse.gov/posts/news-20230307_1 Line 91 ⟶ 83: [https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/gop-led-oklahoma-house-censures-democrat-over-actions-after-trans-rights-protest-altercation/article_5d860bac-bd03-11ed-8674-379eff86d1e0.html Tulsa World] [https://theblackwallsttimes.com/2023/03/07/okla-gop-censors-strips-nonbinary-lawmaker-of-committee-posts/ Black Wall Street Times] ==Other Muslims’ opinions?== It’d be interesting to see if other prominent figures in the Muslim world (such as clergy, religious scholars or even other politicians) have commented on the relationship between Turner’s religion and their gender identity. I doubt most clergy in Muslim-majority countries would be comfortable with someone identifying as both Muslim and nonbinary, since said clerics tend to be extremely conservative on average. However, I also know that Iran is far more accepting of transgender identities than one would think (see [[transgender rights in Iran]]). Plus, there are historical semi-precedents in Sunni regions (such as [[Albanian sworn virgins]] and [[bacha posh]]), so it’s not necessarily a good idea to assume that all (or even most) Muslims would reject Turner’s gender identity, even Muslims who are otherwise very socially conservative. It’s hard to talk about [[Joe Biden]]’s Catholicism without mentioning that his pro-choice stance on abortion causes some friction with the church hierarchy (particularly its more conservative members). Islam doesn’t have a central authority in the same way (there is no “Muslim Vatican”, nor is there a widely-accepted [[caliph]] nowadays). So it’s harder to define what “the” Islamic position on gender issues is. That being said, I’m willing to bet there’s been at least some controversy among Muslims over whether a Muslim is allowed to also identify as n.b. [[User:LonelyBoy2012\|LonelyBoy2012]] ([[User talk:LonelyBoy2012\|talk]]) 05:13, 16 June 2024 (UTC) :@[[User:LonelyBoy2012\|LonelyBoy2012]], [[LGBT people and Islam]] is probably the place for more general discussions of that type of thing. There would need to be a specific sources talking about Turner for inclusion here ([[WP:DUE]]) and such a section would need to comply with [[WP:BLP]] since Turner is a living person. [[User:TulsaPoliticsFan\|TulsaPoliticsFan]] ([[User talk:TulsaPoliticsFan\|talk]]) 15:42, 16 June 2024 (UTC)