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Tabun oven

Hi, Sharab Salam. I have just expanded on several sections in the article Tabun oven. I have translated excerpts taken from a book entitled Halikhot Teiman. I have made use of a Arabic words, which I transliterated into English. Perhaps, if you can find the time, you can add the real Arabic script alongside of these transliterated words, such as the splinters of wood, called in Arabic: luṣwah; or the cakes of sheep dung, called in Arabic kibe; or the small tree that grows in the Yemen called in Arabic jiʿdin, and from where they took small splinters of wood for lighting the tabun. Your assistance here is much appreciated.Davidbena (talk) 02:01, 30 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Davidbena, I don't know most of these words, I will add what I think I know. The other words seem to be in a different dialect of mine. There are lots of words that I don't know from Amran, Sana'a and South Yemen dialects.

I have a question. The Tabun and Tandour are the same thing?.

I guess Tabun is mostly used in Syria and Lebanon because they use it to make Pita. It is also used to make Pizza in most countries. While Tondour/Tanour is the one that is used in Yemen. In Yemen it is sometimes called Tabun but mostly it is called Tanour. I think it could be mistakenly called Tabun.

The Tandour/Tanour is what we use in Yemen. This Al Jazeera 6 mins video shows a woman from Taiz using Tanour https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZb8kQuX0jU. It looks different from the Tabun (judging from the Tabun images that I saw in Google image).

In where I live in Taiz we use Tanour, it is made of burned clay. After we buy it we also add lots of clay around it so the heat don't go out and it become strong. I think, and I am not sure, that the Lwsiah is a think piece of wood. We put it inside the Tanour(Mafi). It helps make the Tanour stay in heat for long time. There is a hole at the bottom of the Tanour(Mafi), it is called "Ayin al-Mafi" the Tanour is called "Mafi" in rural areas of Yemen.

I don't know about the cakes that are made of sleep dung. There is something called Ṣirdad (in Arabic:صرداد) which is dried cow dung that is used to fire the Tanour instead of using wood. Only few old people do that. Most people don't do it anymore. I think Kibe could be old thing and only old people know about it. I currently have no idea what it is.

For the tree that is used to lighten the Tanour, I don't know what "jiʿdin" is. Are you sure about your transliteration?. I think the tree could be Acacia sensu lato or Leptadenia pyrotechnica.--SharabSalam (talk) 09:46, 30 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Davidbena for your work in Yemen-related articles. I will do more research and see if I can add more things and if I can find the Arabic script for your transliteration..--SharabSalam (talk) 10:06, 30 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Salam, asalam aleikum. I do not know if the tandour is the same as a tabun. My source was referring to the tabun (also called tanour), and it is made of burnt clay. There are different ways of making it. As for my transliteration of the Arabic words into English, they may not be accurate. I transliterated them from the Hebrew, using the equivalent Arabic-English letters. Yes, the Lwsiah is what our author was referring to. It's a piece of wood. As for the tree, I'll try to find out its scientific name the next time I visit the University in Jerusalem. There is a botany book which I saw there, describing the flora in Yemen. In the dialect of Arabic spoken in San'a in the early 20th-century, they called Ṣirdad (in Arabic:صرداد) by the name kibe (in Arabic: كِبة). Be well.Davidbena (talk) 13:52, 30 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Davidbena In my personal opinion the Tannour (also called "Mafi") is the one that is used and was in Yemen. So the content you added about Yemen might be about Tandoor not Tabun article. The Tabun term seems to be misused at some point. In Yemen the word "Tabunah" (Arabic: طابونه) means wheat flour so some people used the term "Tabun" to refer to Tannour. The reason why wheat flour was called "Tabunah" is because there was no wheat flour in Yemen. The corn

flour is the one that was mostly used in Yemen then a foreign company came to Yemen and produced wheat flour. The company brand/product was called "Tabunah" and so Yemenis called the wheat flour Tabunah. This is just my theory.--SharabSalam (talk) 04:56, 31 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, the Rabbi from Yemen (Yosef Qafih) who wrote the article about the Yemeni tannour calls it by two names: He wrote in his book: "Every house is used to stoking the oven twice a day; once for the morning meal in a smaller oven, called ṣuʿṭah, and once more at noon time in the larger oven, called simply tannour." (End Quote). Here, in Israel, we are accustomed to calling such clay ovens by the name tabun. I have never heard a person here, in this country, call the clay oven by the name tandour. In your place in Yemen, they also use a different name for the tannour, where it is also called "Mafi," but even here we're speaking about the same thing. In this country, they call it tabun.Davidbena (talk) 18:00, 31 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Davidbena I was thinking about the "ṣuʿṭah" it is actually called "ṣuʿ'dah or ṣuʿ'd (صُعد). The basic example of ṣuʿ'd is just three stones together and some wood and fire. You probably have seen it, where a group of people sitting in the desert or somewhere alone and cooking meat at night. The ṣuʿ'd is the same or very similar. I don't know what it is called in English.

The Tabun and the Tandoor are different things, it's not about whether they are made of clay or not, it is about how they look like and how they work.--SharabSalam (talk) 18:16, 31 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Davidbena, you can't make Pizza with Tandoor.

This is Tabun

This is how Tandoor looks like

Notice how the way you put the bread inside it, is different. The Tabun is the one that is used in North Arabia to make Pita and also in the West to make Pizza.

You can't make a Pizza with Tandoor.--SharabSalam (talk) 18:26, 31 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Your photographs were helpful. To clarify matters, the older Yemenite Jews here, in our country, still make the tannour. Bread is stuck on the inner wall of the oven; it is not used to make pizza, but if they wanted to they could do so. The people here call the same oven "tabun". They do not use the word Tandour. The words tannour and tabun are used interchangeably here, in our country.Davidbena (talk) 18:40, 31 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I hope the pictures helped. The Tannour has a cylindrical shape. If you searched in Google images for "Pizza oven" you would only see the Tabun not the Tandoor. You don't usually make Pizza with Tandoor because as you said you put the bread in the inner wall of the Tannour, vertically not horizontally, everything on the pizza will fall to the Tannour if you put it vertically.--SharabSalam (talk) 19:01, 31 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Precisely. Here, too, the tannour has always a cylindrical shape, and they call it here, in our country, also by the name "tabun." The "tabun" may actually be a generic word for primitive oven.Davidbena (talk) 19:11, 31 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Your edit here is not true. I know it is called Tannur but thats not the true name.. The Tannur and the Tandoor are the same thing. The Tabun is completely a different thing. The Tandoor/Tannour is the one that is cylindrical the Tabun is not. Please Google "Pizza oven" and "Pita oven" then click on images, what you see is Tabun. It is not cylindrical.

Do people in Israel in general call the oven that makes the Pizza, Tannur? (I am not talking about the Jews from Yemen).

Some people in Yemen do mistakenly refer to the Tandoor/Tannour as Tabun which I think happened because what I said above, a foreign company made a product called Tabunah, which is wheat flour –in Yemen wheat flour was not known back then– then the term meaning expanded to also refer to the Tandoor by the term Tabun. Su'd is not Tabun. It is a small fire that was used to cook things back in old times there was no gas in most of Yemen.--SharabSalam (talk) 09:41, 1 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@SharabSalam: So, it all comes down to semantics. I was not so much concerned about the original meaning of the word "tabun," but rather the connotation or usage of this word TODAY, here, in Israel. Perhaps a side-note can be appended to the article, making note of its varied meanings. Today, if you look on YouTube or even in other articles entitled "tabun" (Hebrew: טאבון), you will be shown the cylindrical shape, and one that is usually made of clay. Again, the shape is not critical. There can be other shapes as well. Jews in Yemen did not call their cylindrical oven "tandour," but rather "tannour." Some may have also been square-shaped. Today, the cylindrical oven is called by them here, in this country, "tabun." I wish to call your attention to the fact that the dialect of Arabic spoken in Yemen often differs from the dialect of Arabic spoken here, in the north. If you'd like, I can put you in touch with an Arab PhD who either taught or studied at Haifa University, and you can ask him personally about this one word "tabun" and how it is used here. Davidbena (talk) 03:26, 4 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Davidbena, see what it says in Tandoor#Etymology, the word "Tanour" is the same as "Tandoor". I didn't say Yemenis say "Tandoor", they say "Tanour" which is the same as Tandoor. The Tabun is not cylindrical, I mean most of the time not cylindrical, the trip as traditional ones looks cylindrical. I don't know how to explain it but when you cook a "Tabun bread" you don't put it in the wall of the oven but in it's floor. The Tanour bread is in the wall of the oven not in the floor. Also, the modern Tabun is the same oven that is used to cook Pizza. I will start a discussion there soon and see if we get more opinions about it.--SharabSalam (talk) 05:29, 4 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

So, the problem arises with the word "tandoor" which I am no expert on. I do know that there is a separate article on the word Tandoor. I will write the Professor from Haifa University and ask him about the words. To the best of my knowledge, today, here in Israel, "tabun" is also used for the clay oven in general, whether the bread is baked on the floor of the oven or stuck to its inner wall. If I am mistaken, I will come back to you and apologize. Often, words have a tendency to change in meaning, and since "tabun" is not a pure Hebrew word, perhaps we, in this country, are using the word incorrectly. The word "tannour" is, both, a Hebrew and Arabic word. The Hebrew word is not bound by its shape. Even if one sticks the bread to the inner wall of the clay oven, or lays the dough on the floor of the clay oven, it is STILL called by us "tannour." The word "tandoor" is NOT used by us here, in Israel, and rightly so. The article says that the word "tandoor" is derived from the word "tannour." We already use the word "tannour," and it has a broad meaning.Davidbena (talk) 17:07, 4 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

By the way, have you not heard of words like this in Yemeni Arabic = كِبيِة / كِبِى? I might be spelling it wrong. It is the name given for cakes of processed sheep droppings, one in the plural and the other in the singular.Davidbena (talk) 19:01, 4 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Davidbena, I know a word that might be related. Again, in Yemen there are lots of dialects and I speak the Ibbi dialect. The word is Makbi مكبي which means smoked, smoked with a small tree that grows in the mountains, we call that plant, (Ḥumar) حمر. There is Makbi milk, Makbi ghee etc. Note that the term Ḥumar also means Tamarind in Yemeni Arabic. The word كِبيِة / كِبِى could be related to the word Makbi which means smoked but I have never heard about these cakes. I have heard about Surdud which is Cow dung--SharabSalam (talk) 19:45, 4 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Davidbena, Are you sure that these cakes are like the cakes that we eat or is it a metaphor, like Dung cakes??--SharabSalam (talk) 20:10, 4 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

SharabSalam, My understanding from what the Rabbi wrote is that he was referring to "dung cakes", but even so, he writes specifically that they were processed (prepared) by the Bedouins for selling in the market places, and used as tinder.Davidbena (talk) 20:30, 4 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Davidbena, So what you are talking about is called Surdud in my dialect. The word you gave Kibi might be its name in Sana'a. I also noticed that your book says Su'tah instead of Su'dah which shows that it is using Sana'an dialect like Ali Abdullah Salah used to say Sa'tah instead of Sa'dah.--SharabSalam (talk) 20:46, 4 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I see. So feel free to write the correct Arabic spelling. You are more expert than I in the Arabic language of Yemen. By the way, the late President, Ali Abdullah Saleh, was a great man. He was merciful. When I was arrested in Yemen, back in 1980, he gave the order to release me from the prison. I will always remember him for good.Davidbena (talk) 21:22, 4 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

SharabSalam, I just received a reply (in Arabic) from the Arab who holds a PhD from the University of Haifa, answering my inquiry about "tabun" and "tannour." He searched a well-known Arabic lexicon (لسان العرب), and I will paste it here for you to read:

لسان العرب

وَطَبَنَ النارَ يَطْبِنُها طَبْناً: دفنها كي لا تَطْفَأ، والطّابُون:

مَدْفِنُها. ويقال: طابِنْ هذه الحَفِيرَة وطامِنْها.

تنر: التَّنُّورُ: نَوْعٌ مِنَ الْكَوَانِينِ. الْجَوْهَرِيُّ: التِّنُّورُ الَّذِي يُخْبَزُ فِيهِ. وَفِي الْحَدِيثِ:

قَالَ لِرَجُلٍ عَلَيْهِ ثَوْبٌ مُعَصْفَرٌ: لَوْ أَن ثَوْبَك فِي تَنُّورِ أَهْلِكَ أَو تَحْتَ قدْرِهم كَانَ خَيْرًا؛ فَذَهَبَ فأَحرقه ؛ قَالَ ابْنُ الأَثير: وإِنما أَراد أَنك لَوْ صَرَفْتَ ثَمَنَهُ إِلى دَقِيقٍ تَخْبِزُهُ أَو حَطَبٍ تَطْبُخُ بِهِ كَانَ خَيْرًا لَكَ، كأَنه كَرِهَ الثَّوْبَ الْمُعَصْفَرَ. والتَّنُّور: الَّذِي يُخْبَزُ فِيهِ؛ يُقَالُ: هُوَ فِي جَمِيعِ اللُّغَاتِ كَذَلِكَ. وَقَالَ أَحمد بْنُ يَحْيَى: التَّنُّور تَفْعُول مِنَ النَّارُ؛ قَالَ ابْنُ سِيدَهْ: وَهَذَا مِنَ الْفَسَادِ بِحَيْثُ تَرَاهُ وإِنما هُوَ أَصل لَمْ يُسْتَعْمَلْ إِلَّا فِي هَذَا الْحَرْفِ وَبِالزِّيَادَةِ، وَصَاحِبُهُ تَنَّارٌ. والتَّنُّور: وَجْهُ الأَرض، فَارِسِيٌّ معرَّب، وَقِيلَ: هُوَ بِكُلِّ لُغَةٍ. وَفِي التَّنْزِيلِ الْعَزِيزِ: حَتَّى إِذا جاءَ أَمْرُنا وَفارَ التَّنُّورُ ؛

قَالَ عَلِيٍّ، كَرَّمَ اللَّهُ وَجْهَهُ: هُوَ وَجْهُ الأَرض

، وَكُلُّ مَفْجَرِ ماءٍ تَنُّورٌ. قَالَ أَبو إِسحاق: أَعلم اللَّهِ عَزَّ وَجَلَّ أَن وَقْتَ هَلَاكِهِمْ فَوْرُ التَّنُّورِ، وَقِيلَ فِي التَّنُّورِ أَقوال: قِيلَ التَّنُّورُ وَجْهُ الأَرض، وَيُقَالُ: أَراد أَن الْمَاءَ إِذا فَارَ مِنْ نَاحِيَةِ مَسْجِدِ الْكُوفَةِ، وَقِيلَ: إِن الْمَاءَ فَارَ مِنْ تَنُّورِ الْخَابِزَةِ، وَقِيلَ أَيضاً: إِن التَّنُّور تَنْوِيرُ الصُّبْح. وَرُوِيَ عَنِ ابْنِ عَبَّاسٍ: التَّنُّورُ الَّذِي بِالْجَزِيرَةِ وَهِيَ عَيْنُ الوَرْدِ، وَاللَّهُ أَعلم بِمَا أَراد. قَالَ اللَّيْثُ: التَّنُّورُ عَمَّتْ بِكُلِّ لِسَانٍ. قَالَ أَبو مَنْصُورٍ: وَقَوْلُ مَنْ قَالَ إِن التَّنُّورَ عَمَّتْ بِكُلِّ لِسَانٍ يَدُلُّ عَلَى أَن الِاسْمَ فِي الأَصل أَعجمي فَعَرَّبَتْهَا الْعَرَبُ فَصَارَ عربيّاً على بنار فَعُّول، وَالدَّلِيلُ عَلَى ذَلِكَ أَن أَصل بِنَائِهِ تَنَرَ، قَالَ: وَلَا نَعْرِفُهُ فِي كَلَامِ الْعَرَبِ لأَنه مُهْمَلٌ، وَهُوَ نَظِيرُ مَا دَخَلَ فِي كَلَامِ الْعَرَبِ مِنْ كَلَامِ الْعَجَمِ مِثْلُ الدِّيبَاجِ وَالدِّينَارِ وَالسُّنْدُسِ وَالْإِسْتَبْرَقِ وَمَا أَشبهها وَلَمَّا تَكَلَّمَتْ بِهَا الْعَرَبُ صَارَتْ عَرَبِيَّةً. وَتَنَانِيرُ الْوَادِي: مَحَافِلُهُ؛ قَالَ الرَّاعِي: فَلَمَّا عَلَا ذَاتَ التِّنَانِيرِ صَوْتُهُ، ... تَكَشَّفَ عَنْ بَرْقٍ قَليلٍ صَواعِقُهْ وَقِيلَ: ذَاتَ التَّنَانِيرِ هُنَا مَوْضِعٌ بِعَيْنِهِ؛ قَالَ الأَزهري: وَذَاتُ التَّنَانِيرِ عَقَبَةٌ بِحْذاء زُبَالة مِمَّا يلي المغرب منها.

I hope this will help clarify matters. If the lexicon brings out anything that is new, and which we have not covered in the article [[Tabun oven], please let me know and feel free to make the necessary changes in the article.Davidbena (talk) 21:36, 7 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Davidbena, most of the text isn't about the oven. You know... Arabic language has lots of meaning for one word.

Nevertheless, I will translate the parts that are about the oven.

First "Tabun": The word Taban' means "to bury something" and “Taban' al-Nar” means "buried the fire" so it doesn't extinguish. “Tabun” is where the fire is buried.

Secondly Tanour which is a lot of content. Most of what you wrote is about Tannour. It seems like if it is the word that was used in the old times in the Arab world. So the author tell a story to illustrate the meaning of Tannour. He says that there was a guy who was wearing a type of clothes that is stained by an expensive stain. While he was walking, some people told him, "If you put your cloth in the Tannour or in the stove(Su'd), it would have been better for you" end of the story. They meant if he brought food and fuel to his Tannour oven by the money he used to buy his expensive clothes it would have been better for him. Then the author says that the Tannour is an oven that iused to make bread.. the other content is about other things that are unrelated. ~~The stain that is mentioned in the book is called Al-Mu'asfar. I was reading a book about ancient Yemen clothes (mostly about Yemeni cloaks) and I found this name.~~ BTW, I know this Arabic lexicon but it doesn't offer a clear-cut answer--SharabSalam (talk) 22:13, 7 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I checked the book but the name of the stain, it is 'Asba. It sounded similar in Arabic so nevermind what I crossed above.--SharabSalam (talk) 22:33, 7 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Okay. So I will write him again and make my question to him more direct, and ask him what is the difference between "tabun" and "tannour," and is there any difference in its shape or usage.Davidbena (talk) 22:19, 7 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

SharabSalam, I received another reply from Dr. Ibrahim Basal, who replied to my questions by sending to me the name of a book and author who has written about this subject: شكري عراف، الارض الانسن والجهد, pages 53-54. Unfortunately, I could not find this book at our University library. The author has a Wikipedia page which you can see here. I'll continue to ask elderly Yemenite Jews here, in our country.Davidbena (talk) 21:35, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Davidbena, I think someone whos from India, Pakistan, Iran could help more because they also have it there. For me, I didnt know what Tabun means. What we use is called Tannour which is also called Tandoor--SharabSalam (talk) 22:17, 12 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

SharabSalam, I see. Hopefully, I'll be able to sit down in the coming days with a few older Yemenis who recently moved here to our country from Yemen and who have built for themselves these earthen ovens in their courtyards. I'll personally ask them what they called them in Yemen, and I'll ask them about their shape and design. Yesterday, while visiting the University library in Jerusalem, I saw an interesting book (of many volumes), entitled Arbeit und sitte in Palästina, written in German by Gustaf Dalman. In volume 4 he describes the ovens made by the Arabs in Palestine. He also has a section of black-and-white photographs of these ovens; some are made of stone, and others of clay. No two ovens are alike. The larger ones shown in the photographs he calls by their Arabic name tannur, all of which have an opening in the top, rather than in the side. They appear to be made of clay. The ovens with an opening in their sides and which are completely closed at the top except for a small air hole in its middle for ventilation he calls by the Arabic names ʿarṣa (furn). They too seem to be made of clay. One is made with a fire-pit beneath its side opening. What I found most helpful is that in the same book he shows a diagram (drawings) of two kinds of tabun. In one drawing, he writes for its caption "the West Palestinian tabun," which was made in a circular shape (presumably of clay) but with only one opening at its top, and which opening had a removable clay door, used for sealing it and preserving the heat. The fire was lit on the inside of the oven's floor, made of stone. In the other drawing, the caption reads "the East Palestinian tabun (furn)," and it is entirely made of clay, including its floor bottom, and it has two openings, one on the top and one in its side. Both openings are made with a removable door, used for sealing the oven and trapping its heat inside. In one photograph, he shows what he calls tabun, a large structure made of stones, and with an opening in its side. Another photo shows a smaller tabun made of clay, with an opening at its top, concerning which tabun the author writes that it was bottomless, meaning, it was portable and could be placed on any flat surface for building a fire. This book is an eye-opener for me.Davidbena (talk) 23:06, 12 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Davidbena, does the book "Halikhot Teiman" say Tabun or Tannour?--SharabSalam (talk) 23:23, 12 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The book "Halikhot Teiman" mentions only two types of ovens: tannour (which Qafih says was large) and ṣuʿṭah (which Qafih says was small). He does not mention tabun at all.Davidbena (talk) 23:33, 12 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Davidbena, See etymology section in Tandoor, basically Tannour is one of the names of Tandoor. I understand that in Israel they call Tannour, Tabun but thats where the content that you added about Yemen should be, in Tandoor. In a section called "Yemen Tannour". If I was in my village I would have provided images from there. I have one in our home in my village. The ṣuʿṭah is just a traditional Wood-burning stove.--SharabSalam (talk) 23:41, 12 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The problem with moving the content to Tandoor is that "Tandoor" is only a provincial word, not used by Jews in Yemen, nor by Israelis, nor by most Westerners. Moreover, in the Etymology section of the article "Tandoor," it clearly states there that the word's derivative is from "Tannour," a word which is used already, both, in the Arabic language and in the Hebrew language. The Hebrew word "tannour", by definition, is not limited to any size or shape, so long as it has the basic shape of an oven. Where the oven's door opening is situated is irrelevant. The modern-Arabic word "tabun" is now used in Israel to describe a "tannour" made of earthen material. This article is about a tabun oven, and from speaking with Arabs here, one has told me that he understands this word to mean any clay oven where bread can be baked by sticking the dough to its inner wall. Perhaps it would be better if we'd make this distinction early in this article, namely, that the tabun has different connotations for people in different places, just as Gustaf Dalman has written about in his book, and has even illustrated and photographed in his book. It is important to note here that the general term "tannour" is not bound by the Arabic word tabun and its definition, nor does the Arabic word tabun change the intrinsic meaning of the Hebrew word "tannour." The word "tannour" is inclusive.Davidbena (talk) 00:07, 13 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

One more thing: The major problem that I have with the article Tandoor is that it shows images of their "tandoor", which images show forms and basic designs that are TOTALLY ALIEN to people here, in Israel and in Yemen. Our "tannours" and our "tabuns" are NOT made in that way at all, but rather like those images shown in the Tabun oven article. To apply our content to that article, judging by the design of their ovens, it would be grossly misleading to our readers. Davidbena (talk) 00:16, 13 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Davidbena No, the photos in Tandoor article is what we use in Yemen. It doesn't matter if the photos look alien to Israel. We are talking about what is used in Yemen not Israel. To me what looks new is the Tabun. We use Tabun in Yemen but for making Pita which are not traditional Yemeni breads. See these photos from Sana'a [1], [2] they look like the photos in Tandoor/Tannour not Tabun.--SharabSalam (talk) 09:34, 13 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

So, you are talking about the modern-designed tannour, one that is pre-fabricated. The idea is the same as the older ones built of clay and stubble. The YouTube link that you sent me shows a similar tannour, though older. My point is this. We already know the meaning of "tannour." The word is also used in our own language. We do not need a "Tandoor" article to teach us what a "tannour" is. The "tannour" is cylindrical, for the most. They put bread into the "tannour" from the top. Dalman's book also shows the Palestinian "tannour," and they seem to be built more thick. Some are not entirely cylindrical. My suggestion would be for you to add another section in the "Tabun oven" article, and in it describe the Yemeni clay oven used in villages.Davidbena (talk) 12:32, 13 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Davidbena, the photos that I showed you, are the same Tannour that is used in villages but before they are installed. When they are installed in a home, people put additional clay or cement around it then they become like the one you saw in the video of Yemeni Tannour.--SharabSalam (talk) 15:08, 13 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I see. That's very interesting.Davidbena (talk) 15:28, 13 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Check Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard

Please check Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard. You Persian (talk) 14:15, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Assalamwalakum

Assalamwakum Talat parvez (talk) 06:11, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Va Alaikumusalam brother. I came to ask you a favour. Could you please edit and change Muhammed (SAW) nabi's wiki page in which its mentioned that he founded Islam. Isn't it more correct to say that he bought Islam to humanity? Avaiting your response. Thank you Luckyasif (talk) 18:10, 1 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Awaiting =D Luckyasif (talk) 18:13, 1 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Luckyasif,Wa alaykum Al-Salam, the problem is that there will be a lot of editors who would not allow me to do that. They argue that the Western non-Muslim academics believe that prophet Muhammad peace be upon him, founded Islam. I am so sorry for that. I myself, feel that it needs to be changed and attributed instead of just stating it in Wikipedia's voice. However, there is an article called Muhammad in Islam which is written in the point of view of Muslims.--SharabSalam (talk) 18:24, 1 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Ahed Tamimi

Hi, the date in both articles is September 2018, and not 2019, as you wrongly wrote in the article. Even if it is updated to 2018, there was no travel ban. See, for example, here for her visit in London in May 2019. Please revert yourself. Noon (talk) 18:32, 10 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Noon, I found this today in my Facebook timeline and I thought it is from this month. I think the Israeli authority banned Ahed from a specific travel that she was planning to Europe per the sources which I didn't make a deeper look to them,

They had planned to leave on Friday morning, but the Palestinian Authority liaison committee informed the family that Israeli authorities refused them permission to leave. Bassem Tamimi told Anadolu that authorities did not provide any reason for the ban.

--SharabSalam (talk) 19:54, 10 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Mr SharabSalam,

Recently, I have edited pages such as Ibn Haytham, and changed it from Arab to Iraqi. I did this as many of the other Wikipedia pages I have seen label the person: Persian, Phoenician, Egyptian, Syrian etc. I do not understand why you constantly reverse my edits, as I am not writing anything rude, or factually wrong. An administrator's job is to make sure there is no false information and to prevent any problems, however as an administrator you seem intent on getting rid of my edits. I am not in any way attempting to argue with you, I am just genuinely intrigued in why you keep changing my edits,

Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by Crazygalll12 (talk • contribs) 21:05, 10 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Mr.Crazygalll12,

The vast majority of sources use the term Arab when describing Ibn al-Haitham so the the term "Iraqi" is non-defining. And the term Iraqi is not an ethnicity but a nationality. Also we already stated the he was born in Basra which is in modern day Iraq.--SharabSalam (talk) 21:15, 10 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, that's not correct. Ethnicity=nationality - the word you were needing is CITIZENSHIP; there are still "nation-states" - such as Japan - states made up of basically or overwhelmingly a single nation/ethnicity. Citizenship refers to political borders - which sometimes change often. Just FYI. 104.169.37.72 (talk) 01:32, 17 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

thanks for this information.--SharabSalam (talk) 20:58, 19 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Milhist coordinator election voting has commenced

G'day everyone, voting for the 2019 Wikiproject Military history coordinator tranche is now open. This is a simple approval vote; only "support" votes should be made. Project members should vote for any candidates they support by 23:59 (UTC) on 28 September 2018. Thanks, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 03:37, 15 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Self-publishing and Books on Demand at Queen of Sheba - this ia an 1813 book accessible only this way but needs proper referencing

The author has been dead for over a century. The book isn't self-published. It's actually Zweytes Fläschchen, oder Sagen und Kunden des Morgenlandes aus arabischen, persischen und türkischen Quellen gesammelt (Stuttgart und Tübingen, 1813), 166. 7 Johann Heinrich Zedier, Grosses vollständiges Universal-Lexicon, Bd.\

The fact that you can get it at BoD doesn't make it self-published, it makes it accessible. What I'd appreciate your doing is to source it properly so that won't happen again. Thanks. Doug Weller talk 09:10, 15 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

And did you really think I'd revert to allow a self-published book to be used as a source? Doug Weller talk 09:12, 15 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Doug Weller, I thought you didn't notice. How can I source it properly?--SharabSalam (talk) 09:15, 15 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Actually this is better.[3] Rosenöl: Erstes Fläschchen und Zweytes Fläschchen. Oder Sagen und Kunden des Morgenlandes aus arabischen, persischen und türkischen Quellen gesammelt.Joseph Hammer-PurgstallISBN 10: 3487126095 / ISBN 13: 9783487126098

Published by Olms Verlag, 2004 but you need to add the first publishing date of 1813. See Help:Referencing for beginners. Put 1813 in the date field and 2004 in the Edition field.Doug Weller talk 09:24, 15 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

1RR Violation

Houthi movement and its talk page, Talk:Houthi movement are pages subject to a 1-revert limitation, as you no doubt saw when you edited them. Your recent reverts on these pages broke that restriction. Please revert them, so I won't have to report you. Here come the Suns (talk)

Wikiproject Military history coordinator election half-way mark

G'day everyone, the voting for the XIX Coordinator Tranche is at the halfway mark. The candidates have answered various questions, and you can check them out to see why they are running and decide whether you support them. Project members should vote for any candidates they support by 23:59 (UTC) on 28 September 2018. Thanks, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 07:37, 22 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

A goat for you!

Thanks for help with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Jeremy_Corbyn#Antisemitism_accusations%3A_claim_with_irrelevant_source

Aingotno (talk) 22:59, 23 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Aingotno Thanks!! and you are welcome.--SharabSalam (talk) 17:59, 24 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry

We apologize for writing in your profile, but I was prevented from writing on the original article discussion page The answer is in the source on the right side of the royal order on the photo page, where the names of people who met at a house in Taif were written and suggested that if someone is fluent in Arabic, he will see the following headings:

بدء تكوين الفكرة
عقد الإجتماعات
نشر الفكرة في الوطنيين

Ms.3hooD (talk) 20:09, 25 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Disruptive Editing of Racism in the Palestinian Territories

This is your only warning; if you remove or blank page contents or templates from Wikipedia again, as you did at Racism in the Palestinian territories, you may be blocked from editing without further notice.

It appears you may have misunderstood what I said when I referenced consensus in my edit summary. I understand English may not be your first langauge, so this may explain the discrepancy. When I was referring to consensus in my revert edit summary, I was referring to the fact that there had not been a consensus for the revert that the user Nableezy performed. I did not claim that there was consensus for my revert, rather I was claiming that there was not a consensus for a revert to be done in the first place (I reverted the page back to what the user RodW, and also Zero0000 had last edited, because it had reverted by the aforementioned user. Due to the 1RR rule I am unable to revert the article back to the state it was in after edits by several editors, including myself. After the 24 hour period is up, I intend on reverting the article. If other editors would like the article to be improved, referenced more, more content added, etc, I would be happy to oblige and I would like this article to be edited constructively as I and others have done here. I wanted to make you aware of the error, and I do not intend to pursue this any further. Thank you for your cooperation in this matter, and have a nice day. Yallayallaletsgo (talk) 21:34, 30 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Yallayallaletsgo, as far as I am concerned you are the one who introduced the bold edit. You got reverted multiple times for many reasons as mentioned in the talk page so per WP:BRD you are the one who should seek consensus. Even if your additions are sourced, per WP:ONUS you need to seek consensus first.--SharabSalam (talk) 23:03, 30 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Are you part of the Houthi movement?

Hello. I have noticed that you tend to attack Saudi Arabia and defend the Houthis in wikipedia, or through adding or removing information such as adding information that Saudis are allied to Al qaeda, adding picture of bin Salman butchering yemenis, and adding that the coalition against Houthis are supporting ISIL/ansar Al Sharia. You also said Houthis treat Jews better than the Saudis and trying to remove anti-Semitism from Houthi group page etc etc.... I don't mind if you belong to a particular group in the middle east (Houthi/Iran or w/e), I just want to ask you to please remain neutral and edit wikipedia in a neutral voice instead of whitewashing/defending/attacking a certain group and reading between the lines into sources.

If I am mistaken I apologise, but I simply noticed your activity in Houthi related articles/edits and my observation could be wrong. Hope you have a wonderful day. Graull (talk) 19:30, 9 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Graull: this speculation as to an editor's real-life affiliation is just not appropriate. If you have concerns regarding neutrality, just focus on that. El_C 19:51, 9 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I am 100% neutral!.--SharabSalam (talk) 19:58, 9 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I apologise. Please remove my inquiry since it is not appropriate. Best wishes. Graull (talk) 20:01, 9 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

In talk pages I introduce my rational point of view and others introduce their point of views. Just because you found my point of view different than yours doesn't mean I am being biased. I edit in the main space with total respect to neutrality.--SharabSalam (talk) 20:53, 9 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

A kitten for you!

Al Hamdulillah!

Padewasab (talk) 19:45, 11 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Padewasab, whats happening? Why are you saying Al Hamdulillah!? SharabSalam (talk) 19:46, 11 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Egyptians

Hello, if some user keeps edit warring me, and falsifies citations to support a specific opinion. What can I do? I can prove that he is falsifying references because we discussed multiple time and i don't think he doesn't understand anymore. Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sefarat90 (talk • contribs) 23:55, 11 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Sefarat90, I will see if I can resolve this problem when I have time. No need to stress yourself out. If you dont want to wait then read this WP:DR. You can request dispute resolution from here Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard or you can start a request for comment in the talk page. You can find the instructions in these pages Wikipedia:Requests for comment and Wikipedia:Writing requests for comment.-SharabSalam (talk) 05:58, 12 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Hi

Hello Sir, the section is already added under the Ottoman Rule [4]. Treannmust (talk) 12:07, 12 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

A question about your username

Hello.

I was wondering if I could ask your a question of personal nature, just out of curiousity. You've mentioned that your username is blocked in the Arabic Wikipedia. What's wrong with it? flowing dreams (talk page) 12:27, 12 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Flowing dreams, in Arabic wikipedia usernames of places like "New York city", "Saudi Arabia", "Mecca" are not allowed. My name is the same as Shara'b As Salam District so they blocked me. I wrote the fact that I am blocked because of username in my user page because some editors in English wikipedia think that I was disruptive in Arabic wikipedia so that I got blocked.--SharabSalam (talk) 12:33, 12 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! It was a useful piece of info! 😊 flowing dreams (talk page) 12:35, 12 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

You might want to put a better (even if brief) explanation there - I too guessed that you were blocked for some reason (which seemed surprising), but I happened by curiosity to browse your talk page and found this item. :) My suggestion: "(blocked there because my username matches a city district name)". Boud (talk) 20:58, 30 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I did what you suggested. I wrote that because I got reverted by an editor just because I am blocked from Arabic wikipedia. I felt that there might be some users who are going to find out that I am blocked in Arabic wikipedia and they would assume that it is because I was doing bad things there. Especially that the username rule of Arabic wikipedia is not in English wikipedia, so they wouldnt think I was blocked because of my username. Thanks for your suggestion.--SharabSalam (talk) 21:25, 30 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

BLP

Before advising editors to contact legal about a BLP violation, they should be advised follow the guidance as described in the BLP policy(WP:BIOSELF) Legal is more for matters of libel and defamation, not BLP violations. 331dot (talk) 20:24, 12 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

331dot, thanks for this information.--SharabSalam (talk) 21:00, 12 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Tunisia

I reviewed and accepted your edit at Tunisia. Indeed, the spelling that was there formerly was correct for French, but not for English. Since this is en-wiki, your change is an improvement. Thanks for your contributions! Mathglot (talk) 02:02, 14 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks!.--SharabSalam (talk) 05:16, 14 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

United Nations

Hi SharabSalam. I know we got off on the wrong foot, but I do appreciate your work on wikipedia. I want to make you aware that the issue on the United Nations page regarding that map is still going on. Your input on how to resolve this is much appreciated. Wadaad (talk) 08:57, 22 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I have started a new discussion on it here.[5] Your input is much appreciated. Wadaad (talk) 12:25, 22 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Wadaad, sorry I was a little bit busy. I suggested before that we remove the maps from the article. I don't really remember when we got off on the wrong foot?. If you are talking about Ilhan Omar, it was just a debate.--SharabSalam (talk) 14:18, 22 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Tribes of Arabia

Sharab, can you explain why your removal of reliably sourced information was based on WP:weasel, as you stated in your edit summary? I see no weasel wording. Symmachus Auxiliarus (talk) 15:40, 25 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

You don't see the word "some" yet even the source doesn't state that in its voice and says "it is even believed that" blah blah. And it doesn't say historians. I have added what the source says again with attribution.--SharabSalam (talk) 16:14, 25 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

WP:ANI notification

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 38.142.216.106 (talk) 14:05, 28 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

North and East Syria

I'm wondering: what did you mean with: "Failed verification that North and East Syria is Rojava"? That assertion is/was not made in that lead section, the assertion was: "The Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria (NES), sometimes referred to by the name Rojava...". I have a problem with that statement too, and have today (after you) requested a precise citation for it. Ofcourse I don't have those books of Zabad and of Allsopp, so I can't check in those books. But what did you mean with : "failed verification"? Did you check in those books (and find something else), or did you just wonder, like me, what those books exactly write on the issue? --Corriebertus (talk) 16:52, 29 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Sources for medical content

Please read WP:MEDHOW, WP:WHYMEDRS, and the sections of WP:MEDRS. You can ask questions here concerning aloe vera products or other herbal compounds. --Zefr (talk) 21:51, 2 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

November 2019

You may be blocked from editing without further warning the next time you add unsourced material to Wikipedia, as you did at Aloe vera. This mobile IP editor seems to be you. A request to admin for blocking you will be made if you vandalize this article again. Zefr (talk) 23:27, 2 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Zefr, thats not me. I just watch that article. I was just asking a question why the IP sources are not reliable. It is too late right now, I receive emails whenever I get notified. I understand that you are upset from the IP behaviour but I saw the sources and they seemed fine to me. I will read the policies you cited tomorrow.--SharabSalam (talk) 23:39, 2 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Discretionary sanctions alert reminder

This is a standard message to notify contributors about an administrative ruling in effect. It does not imply that there are any issues with your contributions to date.

You have shown interest in post-1932 politics of the United States and closely related people. Due to past disruption in this topic area, a more stringent set of rules called discretionary sanctions is in effect. Any administrator may impose sanctions on editors who do not strictly follow Wikipedia's policies, or the page-specific restrictions, when making edits related to the topic.

For additional information, please see the guidance on discretionary sanctions and the Arbitration Committee's decision here. If you have any questions, or any doubts regarding what edits are appropriate, you are welcome to discuss them with me or any other editor.

O3000 (talk) 17:52, 3 November 2019 (UTC)Template:Z33[reply]

Personal attacks

Hi SharabSalam. I have closed the ANI report with no action. I do understand that the user was being difficult and combative towards you so I don't blame you for being a bit too aggressive at ANI, however I do have to warn you against making accusations of sockpuppetry. Even if you believe a user is not "new" or is a sockpuppet, accusing them is a personal attack. Either you're wrong, and you're hassling an innocent user, or you're right, and you're broadcasting to them directly that they need to do a better job of evading scrutiny. If you think a user is a sock, report them at WP:SPI with evidence, or don't make the accusation at all. Also, just because a new account does not appear to be "new" does not mean they're not allowed to edit here. It could be a fresh start, it could be a valid alt, it could be an experienced IP who just registered, or you could be wrong and they're just a competent newbie. Again, unless you have evidence that they're a malicious sock, it's irrelevant, and demanding that they explain themselves to you is harassment. Thanks, ~Swarm~ ^{sting} 18:23, 3 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Swarm, Alright. I understand. I will never accuse anyone again of being sockpuppet unless I have strong evidences.--SharabSalam (talk) 18:44, 3 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I think you are not being objective.

You have erased my entire edition of synthesis from the header supported by sources.

The Spanish language has an 8% Arabic influence (I already gave you a source), that very little compared to the other languages that are on the list.

Your argument that it should be on the list because there is an article on Wikipedia:

1- Wikipedia is NOT a source nor can it be used as a source or argument.

2- There is also Wikipedia on Arabic influence in languages that are not listed.

I have started a Talk, I will wait if someone participates and then modify again. SmithGraves (talk) 22:19, 7 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

SmithGraves, We cant create articles about things that are not notable but fine. Here is a source that says Arabic in particular contributed many isolated words and expressions to the Spanish vocabularies.[6]--SharabSalam (talk) 22:24, 7 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I think you're still not understanding me. I do not say that there is no Arabic influence in Spanish, I say that this influence is very minor in relation to the other languages on the list. 8% is significant compared to other European languages, but very little with respect to those in the article.

And I repeat, you can not use Wikipedia articles as an argument, it is prohibited, it is not a source. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SmithGraves (talk • contribs) 22:29, 7 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Matrilineal Arabs

I shouldn't have muddied the waters by stating my rejection of the norm, and ancedotal/speculative evidence that it may be changing in parts of the Arab world. The fact is that the norm exists however. Should it affect our editing of the page? (I.E. should we have a different standard for counting a patrilineally-descended Arab as Arab--doing so as a matter of course for those with Arab fathers--while only counting a matrilineal as such with RS?) GergisBaki (talk) 10:18, 11 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

GergisBaki, let me first say that I have no interest whatsoever in the article of Arab Americans so if you do add a name there I will not bother and revert you.

Secondly, I think what you are trying to do is wrong in Wikipedia. We don't have a standard related to patrilineally-descended or matrilineal-descended Arabs. We need a source that explicitly say that the person is Arab whether his mother or his father is Arab is irrelevant (this is per WP:OR and WP:SYNTH which I recommend you to read). However, we can say that his mother or his father is Arab but we cant say he is an Arab unless we have a source that explicitly says that he is an Arab.

For saying that Arab tradition is offensive, don't worry, I already forgot about it. Let's just focus of what you are suggesting.--SharabSalam (talk) 12:21, 11 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Again, let's leave aside my views on this norm as that's really obscuring the point I was trying to make.

Generally on Wikipedia, with respect to ethnicity classifications, we don't rely on explicit sources saying "Sam is black" or "Sam is Hispanic." Rather we infer this from their parental ancestry. Maybe this is OR, but it's become the norm on Wikipedia.

This practice is currently occurring on the "Arab American" page as well. If you go there you will find a lot of people who are listed as Arab Americans because of maternal ancestry, without an explicit source, based on matrilineal ancestry. (The same thing is happening, of course, for people with a paternal ancestor.)

My point was that this practice is questionable when it comes to a person with only an Arab mother, because the vast majority of Arabs would not consider that person to be an Arab. I know you, unlike most editors on the page, are aware of this norm because of your name. So I am curious to see what you think. GergisBaki (talk) 13:01, 11 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

GergisBaki, I get what you are saying. I think this should not be the case. We shouldn't say someone is something unless we have a source that explicitly describe them as such. Obama had a white mother and his father was black and we only say that he is African American or Black American, we dont say he is mixed or that he is white, we only say what reliable sources say. This is what I think. You can ask other editors or just be bold and add the names and see if someone is going to revert and see what they would say in the talk page.--SharabSalam (talk) 13:58, 11 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I think that makes sense. Actually, there is no reason why the Arab understanding of who is Arab should inform Wikipedia's classification of "Arabs," any more than the Chinese understanding of who is Chinese (similarly patrilineal) should inform us. We should go off of RS only. Those RS will obviously tend to reflect a Western (bilineal) understanding of ancestry, but so what? We go off of RS on Wikipedia.

I still need to brush up on some of these policies to be honest but this makes sense to me. GergisBaki (talk) 15:26, 11 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Sétif and Guelma massacre

There is literally nothing NPOV about calling the french "terrorists" every time they're mentioned. There's no "gaming the system here". 2604:6000:FFC0:54:5D97:40B6:3599:6C13 (talk) 02:54, 13 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Arabic article, et. al.

You might be interested in knowing about this. --Kansas Bear (talk) 18:47, 13 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Apologies

Sorry for putting it on the article instead of here. I was just fooling around, but now I know better. I will make useful changes instead. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.193.209.246 (talk) 22:26, 14 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Speaking of apologies: SharabSalam, you owe Bbb23 an apology for that nonsense on ANI about Bbb having "survived" a report that alleged they were abusive. You know that report was total BS and if you didn't, you should read it. Come on now. Drmies (talk) 03:36, 18 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Bbb23 disrespected Selfstudier work by making a patronising comment. I didn't say something rude, I said something factual. I probably didnt have to say it but it was an innocent reaction because I already wanted to report AuH2ORepublican but I didnt have time, and selfstudier did a great job but Bbb23 totally dismissed the report and said that no one is going to read it, simply because it is too long and that it is a mess. The selfstudier report wasnt actually long, it was full of diffs(links) in a table, I assume that Bbb23 read the number of bits (<10,000) and assumed that it is a long report. Regardless, Bbb23 shouldn't just dismiss reports like this, and if Bbb23 doesnt want to read then there is no need to response with that type of tone, Bbb23 could have said, "Please read WP:TPG, long post are ignored" or anything, and just without calling someone's work a mess.--SharabSalam (talk) 09:17, 18 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

ArbCom 2019 election voter message

Hello! Voting in the 2019 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23:59 on Monday, 2 December 2019. All eligible users are allowed to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.

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User page edits

I think it's best to wait until the MfD is concluded before starting to edit userpages to remove the contested userbox. That userbox has been there for years, waiting another week seems sensible. El_C 17:38, 29 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

El C, according to WP:UP#NOT, "Extremely offensive material may be removed on sight by any editor." a user calling a terrorists designated as a terror groups by 28 European nations and the US as well as Turkey, freedom fighters, is without any doubt an extremely offensive material.--SharabSalam (talk) 18:20, 29 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Why are you splitting this discussion in so many places? El_C 18:22, 29 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

El C, I am not splitting the discussion, I went to your talk page after I found out that you have reverted me, I wasnt aware that you have sent me a message.--SharabSalam (talk) 18:27, 29 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Well, let's just pick one venue to discuss this, because it's becoming confusing having all these forums. El_C 18:30, 29 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Four venues, even. We have the MfD discussion, we have the AN discussion, we have the discussion here, and the one on my talk page. El_C 18:31, 29 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

November 2019

Please be careful about what you say to people. Some remarks, such as your addition to User:BarcrMac can easily be misinterpreted, or viewed as harassment. Wikipedia is a supportive environment, where contributors should feel comfortable and safe while editing. Thank you. ——SN 54129 18:55, 29 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war according to the reverts you have made on User:BarcrMac; that means that you are repeatedly changing content back to how you think it should be, when you have seen that other editors disagree. Users are expected to collaborate with others, to avoid editing disruptively, and to try to reach a consensus, rather than repeatedly undoing other users' edits once it is known that there is a disagreement.

Points to note:

Edit warring is disruptive regardless of how many reverts you have made;
Do not edit war even if you believe you are right.

If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the article's talk page to discuss controversial changes and work towards a version that represents consensus among editors. You can post a request for help at an appropriate noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, it may be appropriate to request temporary page protection. If you engage in an edit war, you may be blocked from editing. ——SN 54129 18:55, 29 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Serial Number 54129, WP:UP#NOT, "Extremely offensive material may be removed on sight by any editor." a user calling a terrorist group designated as a terror group by 28 European nations and the US as well as Turkey is without any doubt an extremely offensive material--SharabSalam (talk) 18:57, 29 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

YOU do not not dictate to Wikipedia, an nor does the Turkish (or any other) government. ——SN 54129 19:03, 29 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@@ Line 339: / Line 339: @@
 If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the article's [[Help:Talk pages|talk page]] to discuss controversial changes and work towards a version that represents consensus among editors. You can post a request for help at an [[WP:Noticeboards|appropriate noticeboard]] or seek [[Wikipedia:Dispute resolution|dispute resolution]]. In some cases, it may be appropriate to [[WP:Requests for page protection|request temporary page protection]]. If you engage in an edit war, you '''may be [[WP:Blocking policy|blocked]] from editing.'''<!-- Template:uw-ew --> [[User:Serial Number 54129|<span style="color:black">'''——'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Serial Number 54129|<span style="color:black">''SN''</span>]][[User talk:Serial Number 54129|<span style="color:#8B0000">54129</span>]] 18:55, 29 November 2019 (UTC)
 :{{u|Serial Number 54129}}, [[WP:UP#NOT]], "Extremely offensive material may be removed on sight by any editor." a user calling a terrorist group designated as a terror group by 28 European nations and the US as well as Turkey is without any doubt an extremely offensive material--[[User:SharabSalam|SharabSalam]] ([[User talk:SharabSalam#top|talk]]) 18:57, 29 November 2019 (UTC)
+::YOU do not not dictate to Wikipedia, an nor does the Turkish (or any other) government. [[User:Serial Number 54129|<span style="color:black">'''——'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Serial Number 54129|<span style="color:black">''SN''</span>]][[User talk:Serial Number 54129|<span style="color:#8B0000">54129</span>]] 19:03, 29 November 2019 (UTC)