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Talk:Masha Gessen

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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by YorickJenkins (talk | contribs) at 15:00, 18 May 2022 (→Binary non binary: new section). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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Hello fellow Wikipedians,

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Photo for infobox

The Wikimedia Commons category c:Category:Masha Gessen at present holds two photos: one from 2011 and the one in the infobox now, from 2015. An objection was raised on the WP Humanities reference desk regarding the subject's "miserable" appearance in the 2015 photo. My solution is to add The earlier photo already appears lower on the page; both are dated. I suggest it's not adequately justifiable to swap the photos having the earlier one in the infobox due to a subjective assessment of "appearance".-- Deborahjay (talk) 15:37, 8 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Conflict of Interest

Recent edit summaries from an editor using an IP address say that the editor is Gessen's daughter. I reverted the edits but I figure it is worth a discussion. Knope7 (talk) 02:43, 20 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Hello - Masha Gessen here. I appreciate the reason for removing the changes. However, my daughter was correcting a factual mistake. My legal name, since 1989, is Masha Gessen. The way the article is currently titled is misleading and has caused a fair amount of inconvenience for me. Please retitle it "Masha Gessen." It would be accurate to say that I was born "Maria Alexandrovna," but not more than that. Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.1.244.6 (talk) 10:51, 26 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I've gone ahead and changed it because that doesn't seem controversial to me (and because of policy), and I can only find one reliable source that refers to you as Maria Alexandrovna (this one, but only the introduction is not behind a paywall). But it would be really great if you could confirm this outside of Wikipedia because, for what I imagine are obvious reasons, trusting an anonymous person on the internet claiming to be Masha Gessen isn't the best way to go. Two possible ways you can do this are by Twitter or by contacting Wikimedia. You can check out WP:BLPSELF for more info. Cheers, -- irn (talk) 04:38, 27 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Bibliography

I have commenced a tidy-up of the Bibliography section using cite templates. Capitalization and punctuation follow standard cataloguing rules in AACR2 and RDA, as much as Wikipedia templates allow it. ISBNs and other persistent identifiers, where available, are commented out, but still available for reference. This is a work in progress; feel free to continue. Sunwin1960 (talk) 04:03, 1 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Hitched

I don't see this one yet in the awards section:

— MaxEnt 01:49, 31 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Polish Holocaust complicity

Author responds to criticism and death threats over New Yorker article on Polish Holocaust complicity https://notesfrompoland.com/2021/03/29/author-responds-to-criticism-and-death-threats-over-new-yorker-article-on-polish-holocaust-complicity/ Should this be included in the article? Quiet2 (talk) 05:33, 1 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Name at birth

"Masha Gessen was born Maria Alexandrovna Gessen"

Sources:

  • "Masha Gessen". Brookline, MA: Jewish Women's Archive. Retrieved 16 March 2022.
  • "Please, join the Society of Slavic Graduate Students for a talk by Maria "Masha" Gessen" (PDF). University of Virginia Slavic Forum. 31 March 2017. Retrieved 16 March 2022.

Please explain:

  1. How is it OK to have a long encyclopedic article, in which Gessen is described already from the lead as "binary" and "trans", but without ever mentioning trans from what? You need to start somewhere to trans-ition, to move across (trans). Being assigned a sex at birth is the rule, and Gessen never made a secret about being assigned female sex at birth.
  2. Name at birth is a very simple, useful fact. Also, Gessen has never hidden it.
  3. In more general terms: the sex assigned at birth is nothing to hide, unless one decides to do so. If that were the case, I would be the first one to shut up.
  4. Jewish Women's Archive is a very reputable platform, staffed with excellent academics, very well aware of all issues connected to identity - gender, ethnicity, ANYTHING.
  5. University of Virginia Slavic Forum: Virginia U is reputable enough, its Slavic Forum I hope as well, or are you cancelling all things Slavic along with Putain? If you have an issue with the PDF being a poster, that we can talk about.

As we can see from Gessen's own intervention on this very page, Gessen has no problem with any of that. She's far too smart, grounded in reality, and non-quixotistic, as not to see how ridiculous that would be. This whole thing here adds being more Catholic than the pope to the other sin, of living in an abstract, reality-detached La La Land. Blind activism is a sin (against intelligence, against humanity at large, normally against its own declared raison d'être), but that's not an argument, it's a conviction and sign of sanity, so feel free to ignore.

PS: Are we REALLY having this discussion? Or is it just a bad dream, like the other guy's alternative universe, that one "made in Kremlin", this one "made in La La Land"? Arminden (talk) 18:43, 16 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Please see MOS:DEADNAME, which reached its current form as a result of wide input of editors and has community consensus per WP:CONLEVEL. The threshold for including the pretransition names of living trans people is that they must have met the standards for Notability on Wikipedia while using (by choice) the pre-transition name in question. The sources you have provided so far do not meet this standard, so the pre-transition name will not be included based on these sources. Verifiability does not guarantee inclusion. Newimpartial (talk) 19:05, 16 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I was naive enough as to believe Israel/Palestine is the peak of madness on Wiki. His Majersty, Fritz III must have felt similarly. Adios. Arminden (talk) 20:02, 16 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Wikipedia works by consensus. Calling other editors mad is unhelpful. Rab V (talk) 21:16, 16 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

They / their

Surely if you want to be polite use the invented pronouns in front of the person, but in articles about them use English. If not its just confusing, especially to non native speakers. 99.9999% of people reading this won't be the subject. Rustygecko (talk) 08:29, 18 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Binary non binary

I should like to know what part of wikipedia policy permits the use of the third person plural pronoun to refer to so-called non binary or "queer" individual. This use of the pronoun "they" is confusing because it implies that more than one person is involved. Why was my correction of "they " to "it" (would accept "she" or "he") reversed?

The vast majority of people do not accept acknowledge or understand the use of the third person plural to refer to a single human being indidiuals describing themselves in such a way.

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