Talk:Larries

Current version

I read through it, and at a glance, it's not that bad. Possible areas of improvement:

• This bit in the WP:LEAD: "A fundamental part of this conspiracy theory is that the two, name blended as "Larry Stylinson" ("Larry" for short), have been closeted by their management company, Modest Management, supposedly guided by homophobic corporate interests." doesn't have much coverage in the rest of the article.
• Currently nothing about covid in the section about covid. And apart from section heading, covid is lead only. Maybe it doesn't fit the WP:LEAD, regardless?
• The content under the Ideology heading is pretty good, but the heading and some of the subheadings don't fit very well.
• Perhaps we should include an explanation on what Shipping (fandom) is somewhere early in the article, like [1]. Also, "stans" now pop up in article text without warning. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:06, 2 July 2022 (UTC)
• I remember reading in sources (that I'm not going to dig up atm) that Larries consider/considered their fandom a private thing, not for the general public. This may deserve a mention somewhere. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 15:20, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

  I know what you're talking about off the top of my head actually - there's several articles from 2016 on "Crazy About One Direction" that talk about Larry as a private thing. Tiffany references those articles/book as well, and I think McCann and Southern do too?

  I think you're right that it doesn't fit WP:LEAD.

  I'm still trying to figure out the ideology section. I actually have a friend who I have provided my bibliography to who has a history with Larries and their ideology that goes way back, and I've been trying to inform her about how to edit according to the rules on Wikipedia so her work may also help a lot. But she can't get to it until next week maybe.

  Adding an explanation of Shipping is a good idea, and in particular adding a longer explanation of RPS is a good idea, it has its own WP page. H-influenzae (talk) 16:17, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

(I'm a new user so I'm not totally sure how to make notes. As of Sep.18, I expanded the lead. I think there should be a controversy section in this article. The article gives a bit of a biased sense as there is a lot of information regarding idealogy towards the truth-leaning side, but not the side of those who disbelieve.) Technicolortrees (talk) 15:47, 18 September 2022 (UTC)Technicolortrees

I reverted you, your removals and additions did not improve the WP:LEAD. There should not be a controversy section since the whole CT is a controversy, see also WP:CRITS. The article is supposed to be biased towards summarizing WP:RS on the topic, WP:FALSEBALANCE is not the goal. I'm not saying the article is perfect but the beliefs of Larries (what I assume you mean by "truth-leaning side") is a significant part of the subject. The view that CT is CT takes less words, and those who hold it are not Larries (somewhat simplified). Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 15:58, 18 September 2022 (UTC)

Hello, thank you for your responses! I am a new user so thankful to receive editing feedback and did not realize the WP:FALSEBALANCE is not the goal of the article. Is there something that could be done in response to the "the lead section of this article may need to be rewritten" tag this article has been given? Technicolortrees (talk) 20:14, 18 September 2022 (UTC)

@Technicolortrees, thanks for talking. What currently sticks out to me is "have been closeted by their management company, Modest Management, supposedly guided by homophobic corporate interests." This needs to be talked about/expanded on in the body, somewhere, then the lead-bit can be tweaked depending on how that turns out, perhaps shortened. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:27, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Babygate

Is there a reason that the Babygate section was whittled down so much? It was already pretty short for what a big deal it was at the time, because of my opinion that the reporting on it was so invasive, and the impact on the fandom (which is backed by scholarly sources) was just cut out entirely. H-influenzae (talk) 16:41, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

Bibliography

Here's a list of links I have found, some of which are not in the resources section of the page yet, that I think would be valuable to incorporate into the article. While I think this is a really valuable topic, I have determined that I need to let it go for now and contribute to parts of the site that I think require some more attention (Harry's main article for one) and will make me happier (I find this topic to be quite upsetting, if I am honest, and I would like to work on some things that spark joy.) all of these links, sans the Tiffany book (which I think is a necessary read) have PDF links attached, or are readable on google books .

I might come back at some point but I will leave you all to it for now.

Books

Everything I Need I Get From You, Kaitlyn Tiffany (2022)

Brennan, JosephQueerbaiting and fandom: teasing fans through homoerotic possibilitieshttps://webapps.unsworks.library.unsw.edu.au/fapi/datastream/unsworks:66858/bindd47bcd5-87dc-4fa4-95e2-c32c77e7d441

·       https://www.routledgehandbooks.com/doi/10.4324/9781003022343-18#sec18_2

·       https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Routledge_Companion_to_Romantic_Love/j_tPEAAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=larry

·       https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Routledge_Companion_to_Romantic_Love/j_tPEAAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=routledge+companion+to+romantic+love&printsec=frontcover

Shipping (as) Fandom and Art Practice (Owen G Parry) in Fandom as Methodology: A Sourcebook for Artists and Writers (2019)

·       https://www.google.com/books/edition/Fandom_as_Methodology/dMK9DwAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=0

·       https://ualresearchonline.arts.ac.uk/id/eprint/18009/11/Shipping%20as%20Fandom%20and%20Art%20Practice.pdf

Transmedia Music: The Value of Music as a Transmedia Asset (Paola Brembilla) The Routelage Companion to Transmedia (2018)

·       https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Routledge_Companion_to_Transmedia_St/CatxDwAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=%22larry+stylinson%22&pg=PT142&printsec=frontcover

A New Breed of Fan?: Regimes of Truth, One Direction Fans and Representations of Enfreakment (W Proctor) in Seeing Fans: Representations of Fandom in Media and Popular Culture (2016)

·       https://www.bloomsburycollections.com/book/seeing-fans-representations-of-fandom-in-media-and-popular-culture/ch6-a-new-breed-of-fan-regimes-of-truth-one-direction-fans-and-representations-of-enfreakment

·       http://eprints.bournemouth.ac.uk/29327/1/A%20New%20Breed%20of%20Fan%3F.pdf

“I will Throw You off Your Ship and You Will Drown and Die”: Death Threats, Intra-Fandom Hate, and the Performance of Fangirling (Bethan Jones) in Seeing Fans: Representations of Fandom in media and Popular Culture (2018)

·       https://www.bloomsbury.com/us/seeing-fans-9781501318450/

·       https://www.google.com/books/edition/Seeing_Fans/-_9FDwAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1

Crazy About One Direction: Whose Shame is it Anyway? (Daisy Asquith) in Seeing Fans: Representations of Fandom in Media and Popular Culture

·       https://research.gold.ac.uk/id/eprint/22295/1/Whose%20Shame%20FINALpdf.pdf

·       https://www.bloomsbury.com/us/seeing-fans-9781501318450/

News

Larry Stylinson, the One Direction conspiracy theory that rules the internet, explained, Aja Romano (2016) https://www.vox.com/2016/4/18/11384118/larry-stylinson-one-direction-conspiracy-theory

Who decided that Louis Tomlinson’s baby is fake, why, and is he?, Kaitlyn Tiffany (2016) https://www.theverge.com/2016/4/8/11393680/louis-tomlinson-fake-baby-why-one-direction-tumblr-conspiracy

Why fans think HBO’s Euphoria crossed a major fanfiction boundary, Palmer Haasch (2019) https://www.polygon.com/tv/2019/7/2/20678859/euphoria-harry-louis-larry-fanfiction

Fans Are Furious After HBO’s “Euphoria” Included an Animated Sex Scene Between Harry Styles and Louis Tomlinson, Ellie Bate (2019) https://www.buzzfeed.com/eleanorbate/hbo-euphoria-harry-styles-louis-tomlinson-larry-scene

Meet the TikTokers obsessed with Harry Styles’ ‘secret’ love life, Jessica Lucas (2022) https://www.inputmag.com/culture/larries-larry-stylinson-tiktok-harry-styles-harrys-house-olivia-wilde

One Direction fandom adds billionaire record exec to conspiracy theory, Gavia Baker-Whitelaw (2013) https://www.dailydot.com/upstream/one-direction-larry-stylinson-clive-calder/

Why Do Harry Styles Fans Hate Olivia Wilde?, Kayleigh Donaldson (2022) https://www.thedailybeast.com/why-do-harry-styles-fans-hate-olivia-wilde

Love the Internet? Hate It? Thank a Fan, Kenzie Bryant (2022) https://www.vanityfair.com/style/2022/06/how-fangirls-created-the-internet-as-we-know-it-kaitlyn-tiffany

How One Direction fans deal with online harassment, Aja Romano (2012) https://www.dailydot.com/unclick/one-direction-fans-larry-stylinson-harassment/

Larry Stylinson is a conspiracy hellhole involving two of music’s biggest stars (2021) https://www.thepitchkc.com/larry-stylinson-is-a-weird-conspiracy-hellhole-involving-two-of-musics-biggest-stars/

The Internet is Mourning 42 Suicidal, Potentially Non-Existent One Direction Fans (2013) https://www.theatlantic.com/culture/archive/2013/08/internet-mourning-42-suicidal-one-direction-fans-might-not-even-exist/312076/

MPREG versus Homonormcore (2015) https://thenewinquiry.com/mpreg-versus-homonormcore/

The inner lives of adult One Direction fans (2017) https://theoutline.com/post/2115/the-inner-lives-of-adult-one-direction-fans

Why are so many adults obsessed with one direction (2015) https://www.vice.com/en/article/rnw9bw/why-are-so-many-adults-obsessed-with-one-direction

slash and burn (2012) https://web.archive.org/web/20150330024441/http://amandahess.org/slash-and-burn/

One Direction Fanfic Takes the Art World by Storm (2016) https://www.vice.com/en/article/bmy3q4/one-direction-fanfiction-art-exhibition

is fan fiction ethical? (2019) https://i-d.vice.com/en_uk/article/43zed3/fan-fiction-consent-ethics

Why do Adult Women Love One Direction Slash Fanfiction (2015) https://www.vice.com/en/article/evg4gm/why-do-adult-women-love-one-direction-slash-fanfiction

The “No Homo” Fantasy that Is One Direction (2012) https://www.vice.com/en/article/8gvexg/the-no-homo-fantasy-that-is-one-direction

why do our brains love celebrity conspiracy theories? (2018) https://i-d.vice.com/en_uk/article/gy7bbq/celebrity-conspiracy-theories-taylor-avril

The Bizarre Taylor Swift Conspiracy Theory That She is Secretly Gay (2016) https://www.vice.com/en/article/4xkje3/the-taylor-swift-conspiracy-ring-thats-convinced-shes-secretly-gay

Scholarship

Repetitions of Desire: Queering the One Direction Fangirl, Hannah McCann (2019) https://www.berghahnjournals.com/view/journals/girlhood-studies/12/1/ghs120106.xml?ArticleBodyColorStyles=full-text

Rainbow Direction and fan-based citizenship performance, Bri Mattia (2018) https://journal.transformativeworks.org/index.php/twc/article/view/1414/1969

Lesbian Fandom Remakes the Boy Band https://d1wqtxts1xzle7.cloudfront.net/64930476/writing_sample-with-cover-page-v2.pdf?Expires=1656528649&Signature=euIJn94907CfG612yo1G-EpcVEy~Q4eJe4Lm~ogC-8PlmmxIcm6~Ai7BDjZ4F7gwR2IrFq0F85JHTtRTNHUabdbY0WlVsIDhvFR0LLcbjU~U-w8KhMe21~faWNqkHtP2LJNZxxf8l6Tnm3pSw3Iag7n-TY7z4cpV0KUUWG~D3DOYVz2qdlsu6j~SS8813KKLuymv0TxW2shVUqpZNJFzoWjj8mmP0gGv1LYAjPLw8nfbI15JuwRNWg9hN4yyPp6SDwLpB6vKQ9Cs5uvBo7F5tZV~KkAyOsJg5-JP9qlA4PCrQ-KGezkNTCepq2IPN7zg20eKW1fSEkQnf608XkCkaA__&Key-Pair-Id=APKAJLOHF5GGSLRBV4ZA

You & I: One Direction, Fans and the Co-Construction of Identity (2017) https://ourarchive.otago.ac.nz/handle/10523/7691 ; https://ourarchive.otago.ac.nz/bitstream/handle/10523/7691/LovelockMillicentE2017MA.pdf?sequence=1

“Story of My Life”: Why One Direction Fans are Still Participating https://journals.tdl.org/swecjmc/index.php/swecjmc/article/download/97/98

H-influenzae (talk) 17:33, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 November 2023

Please change

Larries are shipping conspiracy theorists who believe that former One Direction bandmates Harry Styles and Louis Tomlinson have a long-term and secret romantic relationship.[1][2][3]: 173–174 

to

Larries are shipping conspiracy theorists who believe that former One Direction bandmates Harry Styles and Louis Tomlinson have or had a long-term and secret romantic relationship.[1][2][3]: 173–174 Some Larry conspirary theorists also believe that they has some sort of a romance during the early days of One Direction, but since have gone their seperate ways. Editor234823940 (talk) 13:17, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 13:20, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

Adding to that, the WP:LEAD is supposed to be summary of the rest of the article, and the article is supposed to be a summary of WP:RS about Larries. I don't much doubt there are people such as you describe, but has any decent sources noticed and bothered to write something about them? Per Fanlore (a WP:USERG source), there are many flavors of Larrie, that doesn't necessarily mean they are mentioned here. I see on that page something termed "Houie." Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 13:29, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

Requested move 23 November 2024

Larries → Larry Stylinson – Since it's been almost two and a half years since the no consensus close of the previous move request, I thought it might be time to bring this discussion back up again.

A good article title is consistent, and all the conspiracy theory articles that I have examined (see Category:Conspiracy theories) use the title of the theory, not the believers. For example, there is no anti-vaxxer article; there is only a Anti-vaccine activism article. There is no Flat-earther article; there is only a Modern flat Earth beliefs article. Other ships (see Category:Slash fiction) also use the name of the ship, not the fandom, albeit this is a unique topic in that it is about real people. In the last discussion, I heard that this article is somehow different in that the scholarship is more about the believers than the theory, but that isn't exactly true. For one, there is also scholarship documenting the actual theory. But also, the psychology of the believers is also central to other conspiracy theory articles (e.g. Modern flat Earth beliefs § Sociological explanations for counterfactual beliefs), which all still use the name of the theory.

Additionally, "Larry Stylinson" is certainly more precise. "Larries" could potentially refer to multiple "Larry"s or "Larrie"s, or, as the ngram viewer shows, industrial/mining equipment. Although one could argue that the ship is the more common interpretation, it certainly hasn't been historically (and we aim to avoid WP:RECENTISM), and changing the title to "Larry Stylinson" would remove all possible ambiguity. BappleBusiness^[talk] 22:40, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support. Larries is ambiguous. Better use the more unique name. Theparties (talk) 04:51, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose. It seems to me that Larries are the group of people this article is about, which of course is mostly about their CT. Larry Stylinson is the coupling that group invented or the CT about it, if there is a difference. "Larry Stylinson are shipping conspiracy theorists who believe..." looks weird. For disclosure, I started this article. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 06:25, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
  • As stated in the article, there has not been a documented phenomenon of shipping the pair fictionally, so I don't think there is an issue with ambiguity. We would obviously have to reword part of the lead to read something roughly like "Larry Stylinson is a fandom ship and conspiracy theory that former One Direction bandmates Harry Styles and Louis Tomlinson had or still have a long-term and secret romantic relationship. Proponents of the conspiracy theory are called Larries (sg. Larry or Larrie)." Also, I don't think this is what you meant to insinuate, but please note that it is Wikipedia policy that no one has the right to act as though they are the owner of a particular article. BappleBusiness^[talk] 19:26, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

    "There’s no real space in fandom for people who ship Harry/Louis in the fictional sense." (from the article) sounds to me like there was/is fiction, but that's my reading. And of course there is fiction like Euphoria. You are not just suggesting a change of title here, you are suggesting a change of topic (a bit) and that is a bigger issue.

    Me noting that I started this article was meant as a "warning" that I might be attached to my own work (though most of the current article is written by @Computer-ergonomics), kind of the opposite of WP:OWN if you will. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 15:12, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

Oppose Good morning, everybody! What a blast from the past. @BappleBusiness I recognize the argument that there are no "anti-vax" pages, however the majority of the scholarship on this conspiracy theory is specifically about the conspiracy theorists themselves. "Stylinson" is also quite frankly not used that often in this day and age. You can see that on fanlore, the theory is actually commonly known as "Larry is Real." That is why Larry is Real redirects to Larries. I'm not sure as of the time of writing why I didn't specify that in the header but it's likely because WP:RS didn't explicitly say it anywhere, even though it is anecdotally very well known.

I think there's plenty to be said about why this conspiracy theory is most commonly referred to in reference to its proponents rather than the theory itself (my money is on the fact that people simply don't take young women seriously) but that is beyond the scope of this move request. Best. Computer-ergonomics (he/him; talk; please ping me in replies ) 15:28, 25 November 2024 (UTC)