Drafts by Michael Collins
This short paper is centred upon a recurring phrase to be found in the histories of; Polybius, Li... more This short paper is centred upon a recurring phrase to be found in the histories of; Polybius, Livy and Appian. I believe that the source of this expression was quite probably Gaius Acilius, who may have been the last Roman historian to include the earlier tradition of a cavalry battle, negotiations and an armistice which took place before the grand battle of Zama that we know today from Polybius` book 15, which is well-understood was very much informed by Scipionic sources and witnesses.
In addition to the way that Polybius decided which sources to rely upon, I also consider Livy`s treatment of the early part of the Zama campaign and his choice of sources.
...notes on Italian “deserters” in Carthage after the second Punic War are supplemental to my pre... more ...notes on Italian “deserters” in Carthage after the second Punic War are supplemental to my previous papers on the battle of Zama. The presence of these demobilised troops in Carthage at the end of the Punic War is something of an untidy end which I believe needs to be addressed.
...This inconsistency between Livy`s summary of events after the Punic war and the account given of the end of the decisive battle of Zama by both Polybius and Livy needs some consideration. In this short piece, I will identify the sources that appear to be contradictory and discuss some related references that may shed some light on the way that Polybius described the battle of Zama.
In answer to Michael Park’s rebuttal of my Three Spies` Paper, I have tried to concentrate on poi... more In answer to Michael Park’s rebuttal of my Three Spies` Paper, I have tried to concentrate on points made in his conclusions, “Practicality and Conclusions” on pages 11-12, but I have also commented on remarks in the other sections of the text which concern; Polybius, Appian or that relate to some modern historians` work.
As Park has expressed a preference for the Polybius/Livy tradition and considers other accounts to be “unhistorical”, I doubt if our relative positions will be modified much as a result of this exchange. However, I would like to thank him for the time and effort that he has put into his piece. And on a positive note also, in formulating my answers, perhaps I may make myself better understood.
I hope that the comparison of the perspective in Polybius` battle narrative with Appian`s in the summary will help explain how it is that I believe the history was changed by the influence of Gaius Laelius Sapiens.
I believe that I may have learned quite a deal from Park’s criticism and for that I am thankful; I accept that I could have made my position known about Appian`s reliability and usefulness as a historical source. I think that this will be made apparent in my some of my replies.
Polybius, the three spies and the forgotten battle of Zama Aims In this paper I will discuss some... more Polybius, the three spies and the forgotten battle of Zama Aims In this paper I will discuss some plausible links in the historiography of the three spies` stories and I will attempt to identify Polybius` sources and the reasons why he decided to retain it in his narrative leading up to the great battle of Zama. Polybius` version of the three spies' story will be compared to other ancient Roman sources that have been overlooked by most modern historians. These sources are the histories of Appian and Cassius Dio; they provide us with an alternative sequence of events that led to Carthage's acceptance of Scipio`s peace terms. As a consequence of the three spies` story's inclusion in Polybius` version of the campaign, we should ask ourselves if the testimonies of Polybius` witnesses and his sources are reliable and if there is reason to believe that they are unfairly biased, we ought therefore to question Polybius` account of the battle of Zama itself. This is a speculative piece of course, without hard, tangible evidence and without primary sources to refer to. There are of course, only secondary sources which are contradictory in parts that span just over three hundred years to base anything upon. But these sources fall into two sets; Polybius/Livy and Appian/Cassius Dio. We need to ask ourselves the right questions about the ways in which these histories contradict one another and where they concur. In this, it will also be useful if we were to examine the motives of the principal characters in the history and the historiography (both the motives of the people who were involved and the authors who later recorded their actions). Where these motivations and the correspondences in the narratives correlate, we might discover that the true history is revealed. I will attempt to conclude this paper with a credible chronology for the Zama campaign. Michael Collins, 16/11/2020.
Kbor Klib, the battlefield of Zama.
The purpose of this short paper is to provide supporting e... more Kbor Klib, the battlefield of Zama.
The purpose of this short paper is to provide supporting evidence drawn from the histories of; Polybius, Livy, Appian and Cassius Dio to identify the location of the battlefield of Zama as being at Kbor Klib as proposed Duncan Ross.
Papers by Michael Collins
In the late-nineteenth and early-twentieth centuries, historians took a more serious interest in ... more In the late-nineteenth and early-twentieth centuries, historians took a more serious interest in Appian`s history of the Zama campaign; but now, the situation is changed and regardless of its Scipionic biases, and almost to the exclusion of all other Roman sources, most modern authorities have favoured Polybius` narrative, that we find echoed by Livy in his Ab Urbe Condita.
But if one of Appian`s sources for this period was indeed Coelius Antipater and Coelius` history of the Second Punic War was in turn based upon information drawn from Silenos Caleacte`s work, who was in the best position to provide factual geographic data, then the rejection of Appian`s Punica as being an unreliable source, too far separated from the events of the time needs some reconsideration.
If we are take an interest in locating the battle of Zama, we should therefore attempt to locate and identify the cities in Appian`s history, during the events in the autumn of 202 BC.
In this paper, I present the results of my search for these identities and the most plausible cases for the origins of Appian`s and Polybius` place names.
As a result of this, I believe that today`s Seba Biar is indeed Appian`s Killa and the meaning of Polybius` Margaron is now more clear.
I also propose that Roman Lares was Appian`s “great city of Partha” and that this would conform to the context of a cavalry battle that took place a day`s march away, near to Zama, but closer to Seba Biar.
Later, a triumphal monument overlooking this battlefield site at Kbor Klib would be constructed by Massinissa in the late 170`s BC to commemorate the part that he played in the victory there.
The aims of this paper are to propose a site and a new date for Livy`s battle in which Scipio and... more The aims of this paper are to propose a site and a new date for Livy`s battle in which Scipio and Gnaeus Octavius were victorious over Prince Vermina of the Masaesylians and using the same method, to provide some supporting evidence in the form of a calendar date for Duncan Ross's proposal that Kbor Klib is the site of the battle of Zama.
Needing some revision, since 2019 and when I first posted this paper, I have modified my views on Polybius` possibly having revising his history after 146 BC and editing his original work to better please the Scipio Aemilianus family. Additionally in this updated piece, assuming that the monument at Chemtou is indeed a triumphal monument to Vermina`s defeat and Massinissa`s part in it, I explore some of the possibilities of the function of the building and its environment as a possible focus for ceremony.
It is generally accepted that the Second Punic War was brought to a grand and dramatic conclusion... more It is generally accepted that the Second Punic War was brought to a grand and dramatic conclusion at the battle of Zama in the autumn of 202 BC when Publius Cornelius Scipio defeated Hannibal Barca.
Scipio`s crushing victory was the decisive, knockout blow of the war; confirming Rome’s hegemony over the western Mediterranean and as a consequence, the once great power of Carthage was finally reduced to an impotent client state of Rome.
The battle is seen as one of history’s greatest pivotal moments and most modern historians understand it to be a large pitched battle involving up to 75,000 infantry, 11,000 cavalry and 80 elephants. Without much question, this is widely believed to be the true scale of the battle. But there may be some good reasons to doubt that these numbers are correct and so the purpose of this paper is to estimate the effective strength of Scipio`s field army at the battle of Zama.
This paper considers the proposition that the area of Kbor Klib/Seba Biar in the Siliana region o... more This paper considers the proposition that the area of Kbor Klib/Seba Biar in the Siliana region of Tunisia is the site of the battle of Zama and within this proposition, it explores two alternative possibilities; either that it is the site of Polybius` great battle , or that it is the site of the cavalry battle that Appian and Cassius Dio describe in their histories and as Appian states, took place near Zama.
I hope that this work will lead others to explore the possible function and significance of the Kbor Klib monument and encourage archaeologists to investigate the area in some depth.
The purpose of this short paper is to provide supporting evidence drawn from the histories of; Po... more The purpose of this short paper is to provide supporting evidence drawn from the histories of; Polybius, Livy, Appian and Cassius Dio to identify the location of the battlefield of Zama as being at Kbor Klib as proposed Duncan Ross
In this paper I will discuss some plausible links in the historiography of the three spies` stori... more In this paper I will discuss some plausible links in the historiography of the three spies` stories and I will attempt to identify Polybius` sources and the reasons why he decided to retain it in his narrative leading up to the great battle of Zama.
Polybius` version of the three spies’ story will be compared to other ancient Roman sources that have been overlooked by most modern historians. These sources are the histories of Appian and Cassius Dio; they provide us with an alternative sequence of events that led to Carthage’s acceptance of Scipio`s peace terms.
As a consequence of the three spies` story’s inclusion in Polybius` version of the campaign, we should ask ourselves if the testimonies of Polybius` witnesses and his sources are reliable and if there is reason to believe that they are unfairly biased, we ought therefore to question Polybius` account of the battle of Zama itself.
Hannibal’s elephants and the battle of Zama, 2021
In this paper I will consider the probability of the size of Hannibal’s elephant corps in the aut... more In this paper I will consider the probability of the size of Hannibal’s elephant corps in the autumn of 202 BC and question Hannibal’s tactical use of his elephants in Polybius` battle of Zama and Scipio`s response to them. These points have been discussed in the past, but I will also consider the circumstances of the Zama campaign and address the environmental conditions and logistical requirements that would have affected the deployment of elephants in North Africa during the late summer to early autumn of 202 BC.
Uploads
Drafts by Michael Collins
In addition to the way that Polybius decided which sources to rely upon, I also consider Livy`s treatment of the early part of the Zama campaign and his choice of sources.
...This inconsistency between Livy`s summary of events after the Punic war and the account given of the end of the decisive battle of Zama by both Polybius and Livy needs some consideration. In this short piece, I will identify the sources that appear to be contradictory and discuss some related references that may shed some light on the way that Polybius described the battle of Zama.
As Park has expressed a preference for the Polybius/Livy tradition and considers other accounts to be “unhistorical”, I doubt if our relative positions will be modified much as a result of this exchange. However, I would like to thank him for the time and effort that he has put into his piece. And on a positive note also, in formulating my answers, perhaps I may make myself better understood.
I hope that the comparison of the perspective in Polybius` battle narrative with Appian`s in the summary will help explain how it is that I believe the history was changed by the influence of Gaius Laelius Sapiens.
I believe that I may have learned quite a deal from Park’s criticism and for that I am thankful; I accept that I could have made my position known about Appian`s reliability and usefulness as a historical source. I think that this will be made apparent in my some of my replies.
The purpose of this short paper is to provide supporting evidence drawn from the histories of; Polybius, Livy, Appian and Cassius Dio to identify the location of the battlefield of Zama as being at Kbor Klib as proposed Duncan Ross.
Papers by Michael Collins
But if one of Appian`s sources for this period was indeed Coelius Antipater and Coelius` history of the Second Punic War was in turn based upon information drawn from Silenos Caleacte`s work, who was in the best position to provide factual geographic data, then the rejection of Appian`s Punica as being an unreliable source, too far separated from the events of the time needs some reconsideration.
If we are take an interest in locating the battle of Zama, we should therefore attempt to locate and identify the cities in Appian`s history, during the events in the autumn of 202 BC.
In this paper, I present the results of my search for these identities and the most plausible cases for the origins of Appian`s and Polybius` place names.
As a result of this, I believe that today`s Seba Biar is indeed Appian`s Killa and the meaning of Polybius` Margaron is now more clear.
I also propose that Roman Lares was Appian`s “great city of Partha” and that this would conform to the context of a cavalry battle that took place a day`s march away, near to Zama, but closer to Seba Biar.
Later, a triumphal monument overlooking this battlefield site at Kbor Klib would be constructed by Massinissa in the late 170`s BC to commemorate the part that he played in the victory there.
Needing some revision, since 2019 and when I first posted this paper, I have modified my views on Polybius` possibly having revising his history after 146 BC and editing his original work to better please the Scipio Aemilianus family. Additionally in this updated piece, assuming that the monument at Chemtou is indeed a triumphal monument to Vermina`s defeat and Massinissa`s part in it, I explore some of the possibilities of the function of the building and its environment as a possible focus for ceremony.
Scipio`s crushing victory was the decisive, knockout blow of the war; confirming Rome’s hegemony over the western Mediterranean and as a consequence, the once great power of Carthage was finally reduced to an impotent client state of Rome.
The battle is seen as one of history’s greatest pivotal moments and most modern historians understand it to be a large pitched battle involving up to 75,000 infantry, 11,000 cavalry and 80 elephants. Without much question, this is widely believed to be the true scale of the battle. But there may be some good reasons to doubt that these numbers are correct and so the purpose of this paper is to estimate the effective strength of Scipio`s field army at the battle of Zama.
I hope that this work will lead others to explore the possible function and significance of the Kbor Klib monument and encourage archaeologists to investigate the area in some depth.
Polybius` version of the three spies’ story will be compared to other ancient Roman sources that have been overlooked by most modern historians. These sources are the histories of Appian and Cassius Dio; they provide us with an alternative sequence of events that led to Carthage’s acceptance of Scipio`s peace terms.
As a consequence of the three spies` story’s inclusion in Polybius` version of the campaign, we should ask ourselves if the testimonies of Polybius` witnesses and his sources are reliable and if there is reason to believe that they are unfairly biased, we ought therefore to question Polybius` account of the battle of Zama itself.
In addition to the way that Polybius decided which sources to rely upon, I also consider Livy`s treatment of the early part of the Zama campaign and his choice of sources.
...This inconsistency between Livy`s summary of events after the Punic war and the account given of the end of the decisive battle of Zama by both Polybius and Livy needs some consideration. In this short piece, I will identify the sources that appear to be contradictory and discuss some related references that may shed some light on the way that Polybius described the battle of Zama.
As Park has expressed a preference for the Polybius/Livy tradition and considers other accounts to be “unhistorical”, I doubt if our relative positions will be modified much as a result of this exchange. However, I would like to thank him for the time and effort that he has put into his piece. And on a positive note also, in formulating my answers, perhaps I may make myself better understood.
I hope that the comparison of the perspective in Polybius` battle narrative with Appian`s in the summary will help explain how it is that I believe the history was changed by the influence of Gaius Laelius Sapiens.
I believe that I may have learned quite a deal from Park’s criticism and for that I am thankful; I accept that I could have made my position known about Appian`s reliability and usefulness as a historical source. I think that this will be made apparent in my some of my replies.
The purpose of this short paper is to provide supporting evidence drawn from the histories of; Polybius, Livy, Appian and Cassius Dio to identify the location of the battlefield of Zama as being at Kbor Klib as proposed Duncan Ross.
But if one of Appian`s sources for this period was indeed Coelius Antipater and Coelius` history of the Second Punic War was in turn based upon information drawn from Silenos Caleacte`s work, who was in the best position to provide factual geographic data, then the rejection of Appian`s Punica as being an unreliable source, too far separated from the events of the time needs some reconsideration.
If we are take an interest in locating the battle of Zama, we should therefore attempt to locate and identify the cities in Appian`s history, during the events in the autumn of 202 BC.
In this paper, I present the results of my search for these identities and the most plausible cases for the origins of Appian`s and Polybius` place names.
As a result of this, I believe that today`s Seba Biar is indeed Appian`s Killa and the meaning of Polybius` Margaron is now more clear.
I also propose that Roman Lares was Appian`s “great city of Partha” and that this would conform to the context of a cavalry battle that took place a day`s march away, near to Zama, but closer to Seba Biar.
Later, a triumphal monument overlooking this battlefield site at Kbor Klib would be constructed by Massinissa in the late 170`s BC to commemorate the part that he played in the victory there.
Needing some revision, since 2019 and when I first posted this paper, I have modified my views on Polybius` possibly having revising his history after 146 BC and editing his original work to better please the Scipio Aemilianus family. Additionally in this updated piece, assuming that the monument at Chemtou is indeed a triumphal monument to Vermina`s defeat and Massinissa`s part in it, I explore some of the possibilities of the function of the building and its environment as a possible focus for ceremony.
Scipio`s crushing victory was the decisive, knockout blow of the war; confirming Rome’s hegemony over the western Mediterranean and as a consequence, the once great power of Carthage was finally reduced to an impotent client state of Rome.
The battle is seen as one of history’s greatest pivotal moments and most modern historians understand it to be a large pitched battle involving up to 75,000 infantry, 11,000 cavalry and 80 elephants. Without much question, this is widely believed to be the true scale of the battle. But there may be some good reasons to doubt that these numbers are correct and so the purpose of this paper is to estimate the effective strength of Scipio`s field army at the battle of Zama.
I hope that this work will lead others to explore the possible function and significance of the Kbor Klib monument and encourage archaeologists to investigate the area in some depth.
Polybius` version of the three spies’ story will be compared to other ancient Roman sources that have been overlooked by most modern historians. These sources are the histories of Appian and Cassius Dio; they provide us with an alternative sequence of events that led to Carthage’s acceptance of Scipio`s peace terms.
As a consequence of the three spies` story’s inclusion in Polybius` version of the campaign, we should ask ourselves if the testimonies of Polybius` witnesses and his sources are reliable and if there is reason to believe that they are unfairly biased, we ought therefore to question Polybius` account of the battle of Zama itself.