SUSE asks openSUSE to consider name change
SUSE has, in a somewhat clumsy fashion, asked openSUSE to consider rebranding to clear up confusion over the relationship between SUSE the company and openSUSE as a community project. That, in turn, has opened conversations about revising openSUSE governance and more. So far, there is no concrete proposal to consider, no timeline, or even a process for the community and company to follow to make any decisions.
The openSUSE name came about after Novell acquired SUSE, and
then renamed SUSE Linux to openSUSE in 2006, at the same time it
introduced SUSE Linux Enterprise products. The openSUSE project
followed with a board appointed
by SUSE in 2007. Since the inception of the openSUSE board, its
chair has been appointed by the corporate entity behind SUSE, which
has changed several times along the way, with the other seats elected by members of the
openSUSE project. The project has always been "sponsored by" the
corporate entity without a independent organization of its own to hold
trademarks, manage infrastructure, or to accept donations and
sponsorships.
On July 7, openSUSE board member Shawn Dunn started a discussion on the project mailing list with a request from SUSE to consider rebranding the project. This was a follow-up to a talk given at the openSUSE Conference 2024 making the case that it was time to pursue a new name for the project.
The openSUSE project has had a few occasions to ponder its relationship with the SUSE mothership of late. The openSUSE board has discussed an independent foundation and governance in the past, but that has not yielded results. Project member Patrick Fitzgerald founded a separate Geeko Foundation as a UK not-for-profit to handle money for openSUSE-specific activities. In 2023, the project had a contest to select new logos that caused a ruckus in the community. The project also faced uncertainty about the future of openSUSE Leap due to SUSE's plans for a new "Adaptable Linux Platform" (ALP). An announcement in January indicates that Leap will go forward, but the episode underscores the unequal relationship between SUSE and openSUSE.
A request
The talk, co-presented by Robert Sirchia and Richard Brown, was called "We're all grown up: openSUSE is not SUSE". Both are SUSE employees, but Sirchia said he was officially speaking for SUSE while Brown was taking the community perspective and not officially representing SUSE. Each made the case that openSUSE should be rebranded.
SUSE, said Sirchia, is committed to openSUSE but concerned about the SUSE brand being diluted, because "the combined breadth of SUSE and openSUSE offerings are hard to define and defend". The blurred line between SUSE and openSUSE has become "a constant conversation" that causes distractions and detracts from the work of the company and community. Even though SUSE controls the openSUSE trademark, Sirchia made it clear that it was a request to have a conversation about rebranding—not a demand—with no specific timeline to reach a decision. But, he said, it was a conversation that should be done openly, "not something done in a backroom", and all ideas were welcome.
Brown said that, "purely from the community side", he sees similar problems with the openSUSE brand causing "distraction and detraction". One of the areas of confusion he called out was with openSUSE Leap, which is based on SUSE Linux Enterprise. Since Leap shares packages with SUSE's enterprise products, SUSE may not accept contributions that it does not want carried over to its commercial products, which can be confusing and discouraging for openSUSE community members.
Brown suggested that individual projects should stop using the openSUSE name entirely, and to have projects go forward under their current names (e.g. Tumbleweed, Leap, MicroOS) and "maybe shove Linux after some of them". The larger openSUSE project, he said, should create an umbrella similar to the Cloud Native Computing Foundation (CNCF) with a uniform trademark policy, code of conduct, and shared resources and infrastructure, but with each project keeping its own identity under the umbrella. To that end he said that he was already planning to drop "openSUSE" from the openSUSE Aeon project that LWN covered in June. Neither Brown nor Sirchia put forward suggestions for what a new name for the umbrella organization should be.
Reactions
The request to consider a name change brought up some strong
reactions on the mailing list. Axel Braun accused SUSE
of "putting a gun on the project
", and Lukáš Krejza said that it
looks like SUSE wants to take advantage of the community's work
without having to protect the community's trademarks.
Krejza also asked what other changes were coming, and if this
meant that SUSE's policy of doing
development in openSUSE Factory first was going to change.
Jeff Mahoney, who leads SUSE's Linux Systems organization, which
has more than 200 developers who contribute to openSUSE, said
that the problem is not primarily the difficulty in protecting trademarks, but
the "constant confusion
" about where the lines are drawn between openSUSE and
SUSE. Facebook page and forum administrator Jim Henderson also
complained that many users don't know the difference between SUSE and
openSUSE and that it takes multiple explanations to get the point across.
Mahoney said that the "Factory First" policy was sometimes
violated, but said it was swiftly fixed when that happened. Further,
he said that there has been no talk of changing that policy and he wouldn't
support such a change if the topic came up.
Douglas DeMaio sought
to make a case for rebranding the project
from a marketing point of view, and noted that sharing a brand meant
that neither SUSE or openSUSE fully controlled their brand—to
the detriment of both. He pointed out that if one entity had bad
publicity, it also spilled over to the other. "For example, if
openSUSE faces a security issue, customers might associate this problem
with SUSE as well, even if SUSE is not affected.
" In addition, the
brands might compete with one another or lose customers to
"competitors with clearer and more distinct branding
". In another
message, he argued that openSUSE Leap had probably been harmful to SUSE's
growth and asked the community to think of SUSE as "a big brother here
trying to guide a sibling to a new, more successful place
".
"No confidence"
As the conversation continued, it drifted beyond branding into the
related topics of openSUSE's governance and the Geeko
Foundation. During his talk, Brown had alluded to the board "reinterpreting its
mandate and doing stuff that it shouldn't". The project's guiding
principles state that the board is empowered to "provide guidance
and support existing governance structures, but shouldn't direct or
control development
", but during discussion on the mailing list Brown claimed the board had exceeded
this authority. He said
that the board had "intervened and forcefully changed who was
allowed to present
" about the name change at the openSUSE
Conference on behalf of SUSE. He also complained that the board had
improperly intervened in forcing a continuation of openSUSE's MicroOS
Desktop KDE after the edition had been removed due to a lack of
maintainers. "I currently hold no confidence in the current
openSUSE Board and think it's absolutely essential the openSUSE
project establishes a new governance model.
"
DeMaio took
the blame for a miscommunication about the talk, and asked to
"just move forward
". Attila Pinter said
that the project had seen "quite a few communication errors or lack
of communication
" from the board and asserted that the matter
deserved more attention than acknowledgment of fault. "Was there
any specific reason why the Board decided who can and cannot give the
presentation on the rebranding?
" DeMaio brushed
off Pinter's question in his reply. When Pinter followed
up, DeMaio did not respond at all.
Gertjan Lettink weighed
in on July 12 with an "open letter" to the board and project,
saying that the project has to rebrand, but that there was "no
good way the Board could drive the resulting changes coming
up
". He said that the board had failed to show "any real
proactive leadership in some situations where it should have
",
which was why he resigned
from the openSUSE board in April.
Clarification
Pinter expressed
support for the rebranding, but said that if that effort moves
forward "some aspects of the Geeko Foundation need to be
clarified
". Simon Lees agreed
with Pinter, but said that the discussion needed to go beyond the
foundation to the general structure of the project. Mahoney wrote
that the three topics are intertwined and "if handled properly, present a
unique opportunity for the project to re-establish itself
".
Mahoney observed that openSUSE had a small community compared to
similar projects like Fedora, Arch Linux, and Ubuntu. He said that
there were a few reasons for that: the perception that
contributing to openSUSE was "like working for SUSE for free
",
an unclear governance structure, and lack of a clear mission for
openSUSE:
I don't have a strong opinion on the renaming, but it could be an opportunity to revitalize the project under a new name, new governance, and new independence. That, in turn, could make the project more attractive to new contributors and users who aren't SUSE employees. With projects that used to be wildly popular on the decline, it could be the right opportunity to make a splash.
Dunn replied
that he was looking into governance of other projects and what
openSUSE's could look like. "Because at the moment, there's just
not anything else on the table, and we're all just kind of flailing
our arms.
"
Henne Vogelsang wrote
that Mahoney's list of reasons was incomplete, and misleading. "The reason we are
only able to sustain a small (shrinking) community is that we, as a
community, do not invest too much into growing our community. Full
stop.
" The project, he said, should be focusing on improving its
infrastructure, going out and recruiting new contributors, and work
harder to make existing contributors happy. "My suggestion to all
members of the openSUSE Community: Stop talking about grand ideas, get
to work.
"
Dunn said
that he couldn't disagree more. If Vogelsang's ideas for
attracting new contributors were viable, Dunn said, "it would have
worked by now
." Tony Walker replied
that he had moved to openSUSE after years as a Debian contributor and
the looser structure of the openSUSE project gave him pause. The trend
towards more formalization of communication, structure, and governance
in the larger ecosystem has been a benefit, he said. "A lot of
contributors and users find the stability of that structure very
comforting.
"
Sponsors would also find a more formal structure comforting—specifically, one that separates openSUSE's money from SUSE's—according to several people participating in the conversation. Gertjan Lettink wrote that several offers of sponsorship for openSUSE were lost because sponsors did not want to send money to SUSE. Sarah Julia Kriesch related a similar tale.
Foundation
The Geeko Foundation, according to the "Geeko Foundation Update" talk from the openSUSE Conference 2024, has raised €25,000 in the past 12 months. Currently the money is used to fund travel sponsorships.
Even though the foundation is providing a way for individuals and
sponsors to donate money without having it pass through SUSE, Martin
Schröder pointed
out that it's not the openSUSE foundation. The
organization is not accountable to openSUSE's board or directly to the
openSUSE community. Pinter asked
whether the board had an agreement with the foundation, or if there
was a document "that clearly defines the roles and boundaries of
the foundation
". He also noted that Fitzgerald holds 75% of the
voting power for the foundation, and asked if there was a reason for
this.
Fitzgerald replied
that he was not aware that he held majority voting power. There are
three trustees, he said, "and it was my /assumption /that control
would be divided amongst them equally. I'll get back to all of you on
this.
" As for an agreement with the board, he said that there was
nothing formal but perhaps there should be. He also pointed to the
organization's founding
document and other
filings. Lees said
that, as an unofficial statement from an openSUSE board member, he sees it as a
separate entity that helps fill needs on a case-by-case basis that the
project cannot handle otherwise. "I think it makes sense for it to
continue to exist in that role until these discussions around name
governance and structure are settled.
"
Or else?
The discussion was started under the premise that SUSE was making a
request, not a demand, of the openSUSE community. However, after a bit
more than a week of discussion, it was strongly suggested there was a
right and a wrong decision—and the wrong decision could have
unpleasant consequences. On July 15, Brown wrote
that if the project failed to act on SUSE's request to stop using the
SUSE brand "we will be choosing to decrease the good will between
SUSE and openSUSE
". In that event, he said that it was unlikely
that SUSE would escalate matters to force the name change: "What I would
imagine is an outcome that's would actually far worse -
Apathy and a tendency to put priorities elsewhere.
"
SUSE, Brown said, has other open-source projects that it sponsors around its products. If openSUSE shows that it is not aligned with SUSE's interests, he said that he expected SUSE would refocus its efforts on projects that are aligned:
SUSE doesn't want history to record that it was the big mean corporation that forced its community to do something. But just because things are being said nicely doesn't mean they should be ignored.
[...] Ultimately, I believe that if openSUSE continues to travel in a direction that hinders the SUSE brand, or ignores the need to address [its] governance issues, we need to be prepared for history recording that openSUSE drove itself to obsolescence by failing to listen to the needs of one of its largest stakeholders.
After Brown's email, several participants, including Pinter, Lees, and Fitzgerald, signaled agreement for the rebranding and need for governance changes.
Assuming the discussion concludes, or simply tapers off, with support for rebranding, the next steps are still unclear. Details such as timing, methodology for choosing a new name, whether SUSE might support a separate legal entity for the project, and many other related questions are still left unaddressed. One hopes, for the sake of the project's users and contributors, these questions are addressed sooner rather than later.
Posted Jul 16, 2024 17:30 UTC (Tue)
by rogerwhittaker (subscriber, #39354)
[Link] (1 responses)
Posted Jul 16, 2024 17:42 UTC (Tue)
by jzb (editor, #7867)
[Link]
Posted Jul 16, 2024 17:49 UTC (Tue)
by mattdm (subscriber, #18)
[Link]
Fedora: community engineering decisions, community of users, community support
If openSUSE wants to join Fedora, I'm open to talking. :)
Posted Jul 16, 2024 19:20 UTC (Tue)
by regularhunter (subscriber, #168788)
[Link] (4 responses)
As an aside, I saw some chatter on the openSUSE subreddit regarding potential project names. Multiple users suggested Chameleon for the new name which I like.
Posted Jul 17, 2024 0:29 UTC (Wed)
by gdt (subscriber, #6284)
[Link] (3 responses)
Posted Jul 17, 2024 10:30 UTC (Wed)
by smoogen (subscriber, #97)
[Link] (2 responses)
Also get someone who has actual trademark experience to help craft the name. Trademark law in various entities is very fuzzy and in some places and things which allude or could be similar to a known trademark can be considered infringing. [AKA A reptile which is similar to another one may also be seen as such in some locations.]
Posted Jul 17, 2024 11:02 UTC (Wed)
by Wol (subscriber, #4433)
[Link] (1 responses)
Which while it won't stop DNS sitters, it does make life a lot harder for trademark trolls. I don't know how easy it is to argue bad faith in a trademark registration dispute, but openSUSE could easily argue that against a troll.
Cheers,
Posted Jul 17, 2024 12:03 UTC (Wed)
by smoogen (subscriber, #97)
[Link]
* get a lawyer who is versed in trademark law in the entity you are filing your non-profit in
then do any naming workshoping etc.
Posted Jul 22, 2024 13:47 UTC (Mon)
by smitty_one_each (subscriber, #28989)
[Link] (1 responses)
Posted Jul 22, 2024 14:41 UTC (Mon)
by Wol (subscriber, #4433)
[Link]
Cheers,
SUSE Linux Enterprise products
Thanks for the note - it looks like SuSE Linux Enterprise Server was used for S/390 and Sparc, though AFAICT it was based on SuSE Linux rather than a separate distribution on its own and SuSE Linux became openSUSE later on, and then Novell used the SLES naming for a new thing. Anyway, I have made the correction. Thanks!
SUSE Linux Enterprise products
Sounds familiar...
CentOS: Red Hat engineering decisions, community of users, community support
RHEL: Red Hat engineering decisions, customers, subscription services
Governing structure
Governing structure
Governing structure
Governing structure
Wol
Governing structure
* don't talk about this in public beyond "We are working with a lawyer on this."
* get their advice and follow their lead on what can be said publicly and what can't
The answer for openSUSE is obvious: "Sousa"
The answer for openSUSE is obvious: "Sousa"
Wol