Aberystwyth Pre-election Group 2

2010 Qualitative British Election Study Wales Pre-election Focus Group 2 Public version This transcript is based on the audio recording of a focus group held in Aberystwyth, Wales on 24 April ‎2010 before the 2010 General Election. All participants’ names have been changed and any direct or indirect identifiers removed to protect their anonymity. Copyright of this transcript belongs to Dr. Kristi Winters. Individuals may re-use this document/publication free of charge in any format for research, private study or internal circulation within an organisation. You must re-use it accurately and not present it in a misleading context. You must acknowledge the author, the QES Britain project title, and the source document/publication. Conventions used We have used ** to indicate words, phrases or sentences which we could not hear. Italic font indicates we have taken a guess at a word/name etc. Words in parentheses {} indicate physical gestures or what can be heard on the tape but cannot be clearly articulated into specific words. Removal of direct and indirect identifiers are set off with + word + Moderator So, my name’s uh… Kristi um and I’m uh a… a British Academy Postdoctoral Fellow, uh, based at Birkbeck College, University of London, umm and I’m from the States, the uh… that’s where the North American accent comes from, um… and um, I…I’m just really interested in, sort of, elections, um and how people come to make decisions on parties, even whether or not they are going to vote, um, and so these groups are designed to kind of talk to just people who are, tho…those kinds of people, people who are eligible to vote, making up their minds, um, and what not. So before we start, uh, we’re going to do like an icebreaker and everything else but, um, before we give you that, I’d like to just take you through the consent form, just to ensure that you have complete and uh, informed consent, err that you can make informed consent - an understanding of what this project is, um, and what you are as uh, as participants. So umm, you should have received, and if you haven’t I can make sure that you get, uh, the project information brochure which just talks a little bit about what this research is about. Um, you can ask questions anytime so if you have questions after we finish or anytime in the future you should feel free to drop me an e-mail or if you have uh, the, the brochure by text, um, you can give me a call as well and I….I will answer those, any kind of questions that you might have. So by signing this form you are agreeing to take part in these focus groups and this also involves a video recording, uh and an audio recording. We’re doing that for a few reasons, one is, uh, I want to make sure that I have an accurate transcript of what people said. And then secondly, um, the other thing I… c… one more point down, um, after the voluntary, uh, participation, I am going to be depositing this data with the UK Data Archive so that researchers in future who were interested in what was happening at the beginning of the 21st Century can go back and actually listen to what people were thinking about, uh way back then, um so it might be of interest to historians or sociologists or other kinds of people who are doing social research. Um…. your participation is entirely voluntary, that doesn’t mean you’re not getting paid, but you are getting paid, it’s paid, but you’re, you’re, you’re volunteering your time, uh, you’re volunteering your consent, um, to participate. Although if you do for ever, whatever reason want to withdraw, you are entirely free to do so and you don’t have to make any kind of excuses or justifications, um, anything that you’ve done in terms of participation up until the point you withdraw, I will still use but you don’t err… you know your participation is voluntary. By signing this form you’re also agreeing to giving me copyright over your words, so that means when the transcripts are written, there might be something that you’ve said that just kind of captures… an idea perfectly and I don’t want to have to pRayphrase you, um, I want to just be able to go to the transcripts and….and pull your quote, so this would… it just makes it easier for me, I don’t have to sort of like track you down and um, get your permission in three years time when I am doing a project later on using this data. Um, but, uh your name and any other identifying details, you know, where you work, uh where you live, uh those kinds of uh, personal, either direct or indirect identifiers will be removed from the transcripts, and any other future researchers who would want to use these transcripts or watch these would also be required to anonymise it so that your personal information could, would not be made public in any way. On this sh… form you should also indicate if you are interested in finding out if, you know, the… the idea, um ideally, is to do a book out of this, um, some other publications, web publications. If you want to be notified of these, um, can you just indicate how you would like to be contacted; text, e-mail or phone, um and… and I will do that. No one, except for myself, um is going to have access to your numbers and assistant… um your number and address… I say my assistants but right now it’s just me so (laughs) um, I and those **** And then finally you’re just agreeing at the end that you’ve been briefed on what, um, participation involves, that you agree to, how I want to use the findings as described above and that all of this material is protected by a code of condu… conduct. Um, what are your questions on the consent form? {Silence} Moderator Right, great. So moving on, um, we’re going to spend the next sort of uh, ninety minutes, um, talking about the election and everything else so, uh, I’ve tried to facilitate this a little bit by giving people name ba… uh name plates so that we know who is who, but, um, we’re going to do that horrible thing where we go around and do an ice breaker as well, um and… and I’ll start, what… what I was wondering if, uh, in terms of the ice breaker, we could do would just be to say a little bit about your name, uh, a little bit about you and maybe when you first became aware of politics. Um, so yeah, my name is uh Kristi, I’m the only **** Um, uh, my name’s Kristi and I work, um well, uh, my job’s in London but I really work, uh, outside of London um in C… a place near Colchester, um, uh, uh… I’m, uh, in a relationship, I don’t have any kids so I’ve got a lot of time to focus on this kind of stuff. Umm, and uh, when I first became aware of politics was definitely um, and I’m kind of, I know I’m dating myself here, was uh during Live Aid, uh back in the 1980s, um and it was then… I mean I had been aware of politics, you know, presidents and stuff before then, but I think that the difference between, um, just sort of like being aware of who the president was and that was that I saw people getting together to do things and to try and make a difference and to try and make the world a little better and I think that was really my launching point of getting politically active, so Natalie. Natalie Um yeah, I’m Natalie, um I study international politics at +location+ university. Um, I think I probably first became aware of politics when, uh, my parents were watching the general election when Tony Blair got elected, so… Moderator Oh, ok Natalie …that was probably ’94, I don’t know… but yeah that was probably it. Moderator Alright, thanks Ben Ben, um, I’m also studying international politics +location+, it’s my second year. Um, I probably came for… I’d like to think that I remember what… the Berlin Wall coming down on television… Moderator Oh ok Ben I was born in ’83 so I would’ve been about six or seven… It may have been that I remember archive footage of it… Moderator Ok Ben …when I was very young, definitely remember John Major coming into power and my parents going “Well, better than the last one”, kind of, equivalent… Moderator Sure Ben But since then like, many political landmarks, especially one thing sticks in my head, uh, when John Smith died… Moderator Oh Ben …Um, in the Labour… the Labour Party leader John Smith died in ’94, and I was, I remember saying in school that, in class, I was quite upset. But a friend of mine got up and said that he was more upset that Kurt Cobain had died. {Laughing} So, in that same period… Moderator Alright Ben …and it was quite funny. But yeah and ever since then I’ve been quite obsessed with politics I suppose. I got quite…… into it, I got quite active um, in…in, in 2003 and….. protests… Moderator Oh ok Ben …and stuff…. Well not really… I supp…. I, hmm… for whatever, yeah…. Moderator More active than…. Ben …ran a, ran a little rally in +town in the Midlands+, you know, heartland, Conservative heartland, which I was quite proud of, got a load of college students to skip classes, but… (Participants laugh) Ben Yeah… Moderator Good. Thank you. Uh, Miles. Miles Hi, my name’s, uh, Miles, I’m thirty. Um, I grew up with the military, so, um, when I was a kid so there was a lot to do with Norl… Northern Ireland in our house… Moderator Mmm Miles Um, I was with the military then as an adult, ‘til two years ago. Um, I think that’s the only sort of stance I’ve got really politically, umm… it’s the only thing I really know much about so yeah, um, that’s where I’ll be coming from so… Moderator Yeah, definitely, great. Thank you very much. Then Ray… Ray My name’s Ray, so I’m also… a s…student of the department +location+, and….. It’s great that you started there to give me the time to think about this, I still haven’t pinned it down though. Uhhh…. When did I become aware of politics? I dunno, I grew up in a politically socialist household, I guess, you know, umm, very acultured to, you know, issues of justice, oppression and so… I don’t know, I can’t put my finger on it… Moderator Ok Ray …in terms of a particular event or time really to be honest with you… Moderator So you can’t remember not being aware of it… Ray Just a organic development I guess… Moderator You can’t remember not being aware of it… Ray Yeah…. I…I do, the blissful times actually. No, yeah, no, but uh yeah I do but I can’t put my finger on when the transition occurred actually. Moderator No that’s fine. I obviously have a lot of time, you know, to prepare my answer because I’m the one who comes up with it, so uh… Ray Yeah Moderator {Laughing} Alright, great, well thank you all very much. Um, well maybe we can go back around the other way since we started **** want to be hitting her every time, {gesturing towards Natalie} you know um, but the, the focus group is really discussing the general election that’s going on and um, um a lot of people who responded, um to, although they weren’t able to come {laughs}, um were still making up their minds…. uh were really undecided um, about how they were going to vote so just to start off the discussion um, you know, I know we’re all busy, things are going on in our lives, um there’s a lot of other stuff than the general election but, you know, are you uh, finding time to follow it, you know, headlines were on the news and television, radio et al, um, and what are your thoughts on it so far? What are you reactions or impressions of it? So… Ray I mean this is my first one, I hope it won’t be my last one, so… For me it’s a lot more of the same uh, in terms of uh, an election campaign, held… and w… the interesting thing is, you know how it’s more of the same. It’s my first one in the UK…. Moderator Um Hm Ray So, it’s c…, my sort of comparisons back home and the, you know the most striking thing is how common the thread is between, you know, how things would run in an election campaign back at home and how they run here and you know, so that’s the only thing that I can really see, is more of the same, I’m somewhat a cynic though… Moderator Ok Ray …you know, but it doesn’t change w… in terms of where I go, that’s….that’s what strikes me most. Moderator Ok, thanks. Miles. Miles Um, I’ve caught little bits, um just the one that they’re so undecided this year that it might be a hung parliament… Moderator Mm Miles: …and um, ‘cause a…at the moment I’ve been really busy so I haven’t really followed much of it… Moderator Sure Miles Um, so that’s all I’ve really caught. Um, yeah. Moderator Yeah. I think that’s kind of where lot…lots of people are… Miles Yeah Moderator This idea… people are busy and so the election is something that they fit in so, yeah… Miles yeah Moderator Or you know, it… it’s there in the background but um… uh, Ben Ben I, think, um, yeah…. I’ve been obviously quite, I was getting quite excited about it about three months ago, even I was thinking like… uh, me and my friend +name of friend+ were talking about potentially doing a political awareness, a bipartisan, try and just like push the turn out up in +Welsh town+ for some reason, it was kind of like a joke. But, I find it’s interesting that you mention there about like how it seems the same for you. I think compared to the last election it seems to have gone more Americanised, like especially with the debates and things and the… feels like a bit more of a presidential election than it does a normal kind of…. Moderator Party? Ben …party election uh, there’s a…. I wasn’t decided when I signed the thing but I am more now because I’ve watched the debates and stuff, ‘cause I’ve…the debates are really interesting, the element… the using 21st… like there’s a lot of Facebook campaigns out there that started up and these are really interesting, that this wasn’t there in 2004, a lot of things have moved on {Ray nods}, like, I think, since then, and it…. It’s going to be really interesting, I think that a lot of people are actually wanting a hung parliament as well, I think actually if you could vote for that, you know, write on the ballot “Hang ‘Em All”… {Participants laughs} Ben Something like that… {Laughs} Moderator Yeah Ben But that’s why I think like for example the Lib Dems are getting a real kick, but I am following it quite a lot although not as much as I’d like to, I still haven’t watched yesterday’s debate, I was going download it today but I didn’t have time… Moderator Ok Ben but, um, yeah, keenly interested in it…. Moderator Good, yeah, good Natalie Um, well it’s um been my first time voting so I’ve been kind of trying to watch as much as I can to get a better idea of who to vote for because I’m quite undecided at the moment so, I’ve been, I haven’t watched the last debate but I watched the first one. Um, watching the news quite a bit, umm, trying to keep up with the newspapers and everything like that so, I have been trying to follow it quite a lot. It’s quite exciting, that **** it’s my first one. Moderator {Laughs} Oh… well I think generally it sounds like, um, there’s, uh, the first election in a while that people don’t know, kind of, at the beginning how it’s going to turn out. {Sounds of agreement from some participants} Moderator In ’92 there was a bit of a… you know, predictions about Labour victory but the Conservatives came out the last couple months, I think. So, I think it is um, you know, you’re right, that it’s more exciting, uh, you know, in terms of your, your perceptions. Um, so for those of you, sort of…people… you’re leaning, have you decided entirely or are you still… wobbly? {gesturing towards Ben} Ben It… I mean ‘cause I’m voting here anyway, it’s between Plaid and Lib Dem… Moderator Ok Ben …and I… I just… I kind of like this whole kind of momentum behind the Lib Dems at the moment and they’re struggling with getting rid of Trident or…. Moderator Mm hm Ben …yeah, I… I’m pretty much that and a few other… I don’t know just give ‘em a go, see what happens. I… and personally I want a hung parliament, I want us to maybe… ‘cause it will force people to then maybe look beyond partisan politics… Moderator Mm Hmm Ben …‘cause I don’t know whether parties actually work as an idea. I’ve been doing a lot of research into democracy generally, like I’ve been looking at John Keynes’ work on monetary democracy and other forms of democracy and how it’s built… Moderator {Laughs} Ben …and good stuff like that, it’s kind of real interesting and the fact that they’ve, they’re **** the most radical when it comes to reforming the parliamentary system, again pushing into the ****. Also, I am living ABOVE +Welsh politician+ next year! {Laughs}The MP for +Welsh town+! {laughter from some participants} Ben He’s got this flat above his office, and you literally just go up some stairs and that’s where I’m going to be living next year… Moderator Ok Ben There’s actually not even a front door between his office door and our k…kitchen or anything, so… I dunno, I just think it will be quite funny to say “Yeah I’ll vote for you, don’t worry”, see if I can get a job, or something {laughs}. {participants laugh} Moderator So um, Natalie, you’re, um, undecided you said Natalie Well, I dunno, I think I’d probably end up voting Lib Dem because I’ll be voting here, um, but I don’t necessarily agree with all their policies Moderator Ok Natalie So, it’s sort of the case… Moderator Is it sort of like a tactical? Natalie Yeah I suppose, I just…I feel like I’d be wasting it if I voted anything other than Lib Dem in +Welsh town+ so, but if I was voting at home I’d probably have to vote Lib Dem as well ‘cause I think it’s the same, but… Moderator **** in your own constituency as well. {gestures towards Miles} Miles, have you decided whether or not you’re going to vote in the… Miles Uh, I’ll probably vote… Moderator Yeah Miles …but I haven’t got a clue who for, I mean they’re all… it’s for me personally they’re all much over muchness, um, you just… they’ll say one thing and do another, a lot of the time… Moderator Mmm Miles …so I just go with it like… Moderator {to Miles} So when you’re uh, making up your mind, what kinds of things would, would sway you? What will you be listening… what are you listening for or would you be listening for, pay attention to when it’s…. Miles Um, well on the defence side… Moderator Um Hmm Miles …particularly on the defence side, I mean I… I’ve read a little bit about Trident and I do agree it should be gotten rid of but um, as far as troops and stuff, I mean personally for myself there’s isn’t enough money in defence, um definitely not. And um…. {large sigh} I dunno really….. uh….there’s not enough money in the…. there’s a lot of things, I mean um, the benefits system could be changed quite a lot as well, that does, you know, I’ve only recently gone on to benefits or anything but before that you know I’ve known a lot of people on benefits or whatever, um so that’s quite important as well, I think everybody’s got the chance. Um, and unemployment is massive. I’m unemployed at the moment and I’ve never been unemployed in my life… Moderator Yeah Miles …Um and I…I really don’t think that the government does enough f…for… to actually put the normal middle-class lay person back into work… At the moment, what, we’ve got the highest unemployment that we’ve had for… Moderator Mm Hmm Miles …for a long time and I really don’t think there’s enough schemes and enough out there pushing people back into work {Ben nods}, in fact more people are being laid off, so um, you know they’re really important for me at the moment. Moderator There was something else that I did hear, that um, you know, w…with the downturn, a lot of time, for the very first time people went into job centres and they didn’t realise that a job centre wasn’t really a centre for giving you a job… Participant Goodness Moderator Um {laughs} Miles This is probably the worst place to look for a job Moderator Mmm Ben It’s a social services institution it feels like, the few times I’ve been in there, it…it does feel like, there’s something strange about it… Moderator Mm Hmm Ben …it doesn’t encourage you to go back in there, well it doesn’t… yeah well maybe it does in a way but it does… it’s not nice {exasperated laugh} Moderator {to Miles} So in terms of, you say, with, with the government, um, with the benefit system being reformed, you’re saying it should be… is it, is it that you’re saying that should… I don’t want to put words in your mouth… that it should be reformed in a way that makes it easier for people to find work who are um on… or what, what kind of reform I guess… Miles Yeah, yeah certainly easier for people to find work, I mean there’s a lot of people that, I mean obviously you’ve got the sector of people that claim and have claimed since **** or whatever but I mean as far as the millions of people that are actually looking for work and can’t find work… Moderator Mm Hmm Miles … or unavailable for… I…I just don’t think that there’s enough for them. Um, there’s nothing… there seems to be not a lot out there for you… to…to encourage people back into, into work even if it’s just part-time or, you know, even if it’s not in their skill base, you know if it’s a bit lower than what they’re capable of, just getting people back into work, it’s not… it just doesn’t seem to be there. Moderator Right. Ok, thanks for that, that’s, that’s really interesting…. Ray - now I’m pronouncing it correctly…? Ray Yes, that’s fine Moderator {to Ray} Um your uh, we were talking about, um, a…about how issues that will, **** would help you to… have you… sorry, we didn’t say whether or not you knew how you were going to be… Ray I’m pretty sure… um… in between two… Moderator Ok Ray …as well, and for me it would be either the Lib Dems or the Green Party… Moderator Ok Ray …um… so, and you know, although I haven’t voted strategically in the past because I have problems with the idea of voting strategically, uh, this time around I might be thinking about it… Moderator Ok Ray … you know, in terms of, you know, it might be the deciding factor for me given the circumstances and what’s transpiring right now to vote for the Lib Dems as a strategic choice because the discrepancies between the two parties on the issues that are important to me are not that big… Moderator Right Ray …you know? Uh, so in that sense, I think you know, so it’s going to be between those two, most likely for the Liberal Democrats Moderator Ok Ray Yeah Moderator For those of you who, I mean, if you’re leaning…. You’re leaning Lib Dem? {pointing to Natalie} And you’re leaning Lib Dem? {pointing to Ray} Ray Um Hmm Moderator And you’re leaning…. Lib Dem? {pointing to Ben} Ben Yeah Moderator {pointing to Miles} And do you feel at all… and you’re still, you’re undecided either way Miles Um Hmm Moderator Um, has this Lib Dem surge made it more… you know this whole sort of “Clegg Mania” they talked about in the debates and everything, make it seem like a more… as opposed to doing a “I’m going to vote for the Greens because I believe in the Greens”… Ray Mmm Moderator …um, does voting Lib Dem this time seem like it’s, it’s a more reasonable, tactical option or is it just, you know, you’re just thinking tactically based on who, how, you know, the constituency plays out here? Ben Um, I’d like to think… Moderator Yeah Ben …that it’s, that it, that there is some… I mean, I suppose if you’re asking me personally, but like I probably was going to anyway because I was, I do… I think I voted for them the last general election… Well no actually I think I voted Green, I…I…I could have voted Green as well, but um, I think there is something there… I don’t know – the Facebook group that kind of said, “Oh we’re going to use the mace… the Rage Against the Mach….we got Rage Against the Machine to Number One, let’s get Nick, let’s get the Labour, Tories out *** and get the Lib Dems into office”, I dunno stuff like that did make me think, there must be some kind of momentum, this has got 100,000 people on it… Moderator Mmm Ben …as a group, which is not a small amount, in fact that’s enough for it to go viral and then it gets… Moderator Mm Hmm Ben …quite big but it’s whether those people actually come out on the day. But yeah definitely I think it makes it more viable, the media seems to be getting behind it as well, or at least…. {sigh} but then again how, by… how, um… interested is the media because, when the Tories are saying they’re going to slash the BBC budget quite heavily {laughing} I mean, um yeah… it’s, it’s complicated… Moderator Mmm. How about you Natalie, what do you think? Natalie Um, I think, I think in +city in Wales+ I was probably always going to vote Lib Dem but if I was voting at home in +city in Essex+ I would probably… Moderator Uh huh Natalie …um would have voted Labour I think… Moderator Ok Natalie But again it’s more of the same because, uh, +city in Essex+ tends to be the same MP, you know, every time anyway and he’s Lib Dem so… Moderator Yeah Natalie But I think it’s made it more a case of, I feel that my vote wouldn’t be wasted now, if I did chose to vote Lib Dem, whereas before it probably would’ve done. Moderator And you’re saying you’re gonna… you’re considering strategic voting… Ray Well, I’m considering strategic voting not in terms of s…, you know, uh, considering a spoiled vote if I vote for the Green Party, I’m actually, I think I’m a little in agreement with Ben here about hung parliaments. {Participants make sounds of assent} Ray The, the attraction there for me is… that…that’s probably what attracts me more to voting strategically this one time which is an exception, a real exception in my case because I don’t usually vote strategically at all. So, I mean the idea of having a hung parliament appeals to me. Moderator Ok Ray So I think that, rather than the “Clegg Mania” and everything else that’s developed… Moderator Yeah Ray Uh, I mean, that’s the facilitator **** you know, but, there, the real reason is, behind it for me is, you know, yeah I might be swayed for once, for the first time in my life to vote strategically because of the idea ****, of a hung parliament. Moderator Ok Ray Hmm Moderator Well I mean, does that um… there’s a question that I…I had later but it seems like a good time to talk about it in terms of a hung parliament, so you…it’s something that you actually want…want to see as the outcome {to Ray}, regardless of how many vote here, you know, tactically or whatever you decide on the day, in terms of the election outcome, what…who would like to see on the night, we’ve got uh…umm no clear majority, we’re going to, you know, have a hung, a hung or balanced, I guess it depends on how you wanna phrase it, parliament. Is that… how many, by sort of a show of hands… Ray {Large sigh while raising hand} {Natalie raises hand, Ben halfway raises hand and puts it up again, then down, then up and down again} Moderator …like that. You’re ok {pointing to Ray}, you’re ok {pointing to Natalie}, so two… w…would be ok with a hung parliament you think {gesturing to Ben}… Ben Oh well… might be ok with it… Moderator Yeah, yeah Ben … but I mean I just don’t think… that I wouldn’t be upset if the Lib Dems won by outright majority… Moderator Ok Ben I’d be very surprised! Moderator Right Ben But I wouldn’t be like massively upset because… it’s just unprecedented Moderator Ok Ben It’s been nearly… how many…years? A long one {laughs} Moderator Ok Ben {Laughs} Long time. Moderator Ok. So for you it would be, preference would be… wha… a…a Lib Dem majority followed by….. or don’t you know? Ben No I don’t {said while jokingly acting distressed} Moderator {Laughing} Ok {Miles laughs} Moderator Would anyone… w…what about clear majority, would one, one pers… would anyone here wanna see just one party with a clear majority being able to take the government forward, I mean it’s ok… Miles I… I think… Moderator Yeah Miles Well I actually think it’d probably be easier with one party because it’s getting the parties to work together Moderator Mmm Miles …and other peop… and it just, I just can’t see it working myself. {laughs} Moderator Mmm ok yeah, that’s fair enough. It’s certainly um, we see… we’re kind of hearing, you know, that, that as well, you know people are taking different views on this so, um worried about the parties being able to work together and horse-trading and stuff so… Ben I think it’s an element of trust isn’t it? I think that to some extent… we trust them to know what they want so that if one party gets in that they will just make… they will actually think, or mean, we’re so worried about just stagnation… Moderator Mmm Ben …that we trust… we…we see them bickering all the time so we just assume that if they’re forced to work together, they’re going to not be able to decide on anything. But I dunno, I’m… I’m… I’m maybe being a bit optimistic about human nature that something {laughs}, something will come through and they suddenly decide that {adopting an upper class accent} they don’t have that many differences after all and together they can… I don’t know… {Participants laughing} Moderator Why can’t we all just get along? {More laughter} Ben It could lead to a more representative d… po… politics so rather than representative because p… suddenly, p…. MPs, aren’t… don’t have the same, the whips don’t have the same power anymore to a certain extent, like they’re not so forced to vote what their… party says, they may be a bit more open to: well what do my constituents want, which, maybe, is what we’re meant to be doing. I dunno, what is representat… or is representative democracy: oh do what’s good for them, what we… what I think they want… Moderator Mmm Ben …what they need… Moderator Right Ben It’s kind of… e… arguments about democracy… {laughs nervously} Moderator Natalie, what are your thoughts on a working majority or a hung parliament? Natalie Um, I think I would prefer it if there was one clear party that won, but I don’t think a hung parliament would be a bad thing. I think it might sort of… be what the country needs to get things moving because it all seems a bit stagnant with everybody just bickering amongst each other and if they actually were able to work together, I think that might be a bit better but… Moderator Hmm Natalie So I don’t really think I’d mind either way Moderator Ok. So people are kind of open… {Silence} Moderator Right. Well this has certainly been, it’s… it’s been an adventure so… {Sounds of agreement} Moderator Um, in terms of uh, thinking about not, now just like, on the UK wide election but thinking about Wales in particular, um when I’ll say the words “Welsh Assembly”, um… what are your associations with the Welsh Assembly , are you generally positive? Are you, do you, kind of regard it more in terms of n… uh, negatively, or do you have, sort of, no opinion on it? {Pause} Can we start with you, Ray? {gesturing to Ray} Ray Yeah. Um {sigh} positive Moderator Yeah? Ray Yeah, in… general, I mean… again it goes back to my personal experiences I guess , I live in a federation. We have two levels of government… Moderator Mmm Hmm Ray With, you know, supposedly strictly assigned jurisdictions, which we never stop bickering about… {Moderator laughs} Ray …between the provinces and the federal government anyways, but you know, yeah and I live in +Canadian province+ so… Moderator Right Ray …you know, I see a lot of similarities, many difference as well so… you know, I’m, I have no problems devolving power to local areas in a country, a multi-ne…, multi-national, multi-cultural, multi-ethnic, whatever you want to call it… Moderator Mmm Hmm Ray …country, so that on certain issues, you know, people have more of a control on the destinies of their areas, regions, identifiers, whatever they… those might be. Moderator Mmm Ray Yeah Moderator Great, thanks Ray Mm Moderator Miles Miles I think it’s all positive from, fff…rom dealings that I’ve, I’ve seen and had with them… Moderator Mmm Miles …um, I think they do quite a lot for the people of Wales, um… especially in my position there’s a lot of funding and a lot of support there from the Welsh Assembly Government, um, for different schemes, uh… especially as, as I said I’m unemployed um, with me, I…I’ve been looking into going back to college, um, do an access course et cetera, and uh… there’s funding for this through the Welsh Assembly Government which I wouldn’t get back, um, where my parents are, in +County in South West England+… Moderator Right Miles …um, so from that point of view, yeah, I… I think they’re all positive, you know **** uh… Moderator Very, very good. Great. Thank you. Uh Ben. Ben Uh, yeah. T… yeah local power, you know, it does seem… I don’t, I don’t have a… I mean I think it’s important for, for, for if you’re going to, if we’re going to have Welsh and Wales as an identity then they need to… Moderator Mmm Ben …obviously have power over… yeah seems good. I have, I…I feel, a, a li… I do sometimes worry about um, about the language, but that’s more to do with like, the language, like the bilingual system, I mean it’s not that I think it… it’s, it’s bad but it’s like we don’t encourage, say in England, the teaching of… well, you know, it’s like…… It worries me when you kind of start splitting people more… Moderator Mmm Ben …than I thought they were, maybe it’s because I didn’t realise quite how culturally different some areas of Wales are to areas of England… Moderator Mmm Ben But then… yeah, that’s it, and it’s not really an issue, I lived with two…t…two Welsh speakers and it’s fine…it’s just um, I just sometimes, you know? Anything like that is an… I… that’s probably a bigger problem with generally English language teaching anyway is the fact that we don’t really make any effort to learn any other languages… {Moderator laughs} Ben …well we’re not, it’s the…the impetus is not there seemingly in education, uh and this seems… Moderator It’s lacking in American education too ****… Ben Yeah, seems it… Moderator That’s ok Ben But, uh oh, Welsh Assembly, good thing, definitely. Moderator Ok, so positive on the Welsh Assembly, yeah? Ben {Laughing} Sorry Moderator Uh, Natalie, Welsh Assembly Natalie Um, I don’t really have an opinion on it… Moderator Mmm Hmm Natalie …but I think that’s probably because, well, I’m not Welsh, I don’t feel like it affects me in any way, I…it probably does because I live in +city in Wales+ but, I think, if I were Welsh or…I probably would have a positive opinion but to be honest it doesn’t…I don’t feel like it affects me, so… Moderator Yeah. So coming back to it, I mean when you guy… when you’re thinking about voting, um, with… you know because there is, there is that role of sort of, of, of, of devolution and, and e…even if… some peop…. so many people are +location+ at the university **** employed or living in +location+ … {Participants make sounds of agreement} Moderator Um, when, when you’re hearing the discussions about pol… about politics, and what’s, going on, um, in your mind is it, ah, is you’re you know, you’re vote…. you’re voting locally but is there any kind of sepRaytion for you between sort of like Welsh, d… the Assembly’s, sort of, devolved powers on education and other things. Do you sepRayte that out, w…what Wales can do, from the national debates or is it when you’re sort of judging the parties, it’s more just, you know, which party is going to do better generally. So, did that make sense? So, i..if you were Welsh, you know, if, if people maybe in the room who were, were in Wales for a while, you know you’re here, going to be here for a while, you’ve got experience with the Welsh Assembly, is there sort of like: Well, you know, there’s, the national election’s going on… Miles Mmm Moderator …but the Welsh Assembly does all this stuff for me, so I don’t have to kind of pay attention to what they say… {Miles laughs} Moderator …um, on that kind of stuff, maybe defence, you know, but when it comes to benefits, are… I’ve got a different theme that, that’s in mind. Does that make sense? {gestures to Miles} Miles Yeah, instead of looking at the whole… Moderator Mmm Miles …you mean in…instead of looking at the country as, as a whole, looking at my area more than… Moderator Right Miles …more than the whole picture, you m… is that wha… Moderator Yeah, and so sometimes when the politicians are talking about things… Miles Yeah Moderator …like defence would be relevant because it’s something that is going to be UK-wide… Miles Yeah Moderator …but with maybe the… reforming the benefits system, perhaps it’s not so relevant because the things that you’re dealing with are, are, are dealt with locally… Miles Yeah, yeah Moderator …so do you think that, is that, uh, is that something that, kind of, you would, you would think about? Miles I got…Yeah, I’d… I’d obviously {sighs}, I’d have to look at it selfishly wouldn’t I? {Moderator and Miles laugh} Miles That sounds bad but you, you, um, yeah I would look at the local area r…rather than the, the whole sort of… Moderator Mmm Miles …you know I’d, I’d have to look at where I was living and what was, what is going on for me here and what they’re, they’re going to sort of provide for the people in the, in the area, I mean, um {pause} I, I’m, I realise the whole country affe… I mean it all affects everybody, but you have to sort of look at what’s happening, near you… {Participants make noises of agreement} Miles So yeah Moderator Yes, well… and then again, maybe I’m wrong, but I guess you know if, if you’re +location+ as, with the university it might not be such a clear, um, division, but maybe I’m wrong? I don’t know… Natalie I think um because I feel like I live in two places I don’t really feel that anything that happens locally really affects me all that much… Moderator Right Natalie …so it is more, generally what’s going on at the, the like government level rather than the local level Moderator Right Natalie Um, because I don’t really feel I spend, like a… long enough in either place. So it doesn’t really affect me that much. Moderator Sure {Pause}, Um Ben, Ray, any thoughs? Ray Mmm, uh no I… before you brought it up… {Moderator laughs} Ray …today I hadn’t really, I hadn’t really given it a lot of thought because for me, I mean, I live here…. And I’ve been living here for +period of time+ and I’ll be living here for another +period of time+, so, I do visit back home but I don’t sort of spend half of the time here and half of the time there like, like Natalie so… Moderator Mmm Hmm Ray …you know but I…I’m thinking while she was… while you were asking the question and while she was talking I was thinking of, you know, well {sigh} I see the local candidates as linked to the national level anyways right? Moderator Mmm Hmm Ray So, there’s definitely things that I’d pay more attention to in terms of, you know, what the local candidates are saying about the area that I’m living in and implications that that will have at local level, right? But then I always seem to have a tendency to tie it up to the UK-wide level and the national level which seems to be overarching for me… Moderator Mmm Hmm Ray …uh, I mean it seems to me at least at these… at this juncture that I…I, I’ve paid more attention, to the overarching national level than I have… Moderator Mmm Hmm Ray …to the local level Moderator Right Ray Mmm Moderator Ok Ben I’m not sure when the AN elections are, the assembly elections. Are they at the same time? Moderator Nnno Ben Hmm… Moderator No, no you… yeah Ben …because the way I would of thought it, well the way I would vote in the respect would be, even though I don’t speak Welsh, in fact I don’t, I’m not like, I don’t advocate them, the idea of them being like a completely independent state or anything like that, I still, I would vote Plaid in a Welsh Assembly, kind of in assumption that…… their kind of heart’s in the right….so like, but then I would vote, for maybe a national, like a… like the Lib Dems in the nation… in the general election… {Ray nods} Moderator Mmm Hmm Ben Um, becau… yeah I think, I…I’d agree with divided powers I suppose. Moderator Mmm Ben I, I, I did have an idea though. This is a bit of a ridiculous idea, but, um and it’s, it’s kind of like one that stems from a lot of people saying: oh well, you know, Welsh, uh, constituencies, hav… Welsh and Scottish constituencies have a say in our British Parliament but then, obviously, there’s kind of like this divide, the p… and the problem is that English supposedly doesn’t have its own… Moderator Yeah Ben …sepRayte devolved parliament and, um, I came up with the idea that what you could do, is you could uh, divide England up, ‘cause it’s too big anyway, into having Northern England and Southern England parliaments… Moderator Mmm Hmm Ben …um, and um Birmingham can be the Northern um **** and then you have somewhere else. I don’t know, and then a, a, a proper UK government um, like this would be… Moderator Yeah Ben …completely… obviously this is fantasy land, kind of really, really formal, but like in my head, like dividing up the UK… Moderator Mmm Hmm Ben …doesn’t it lead to this point where we’re just dividing it into smaller part…I don’t think it’s necessarily a bad idea because then you could just have like the lender system in Germany, Germany but here, not that that works perfectly equally. No system will work perfectly. Moderator Right Ben But… Moderator Ok Ben We’re trying to please people and that’s good. We’re not telling them to shut up so… {Ben laughs} Moderator Power flows through the peoples is the aim here, right? Ben Ideally, more local power supposedly. Moderator Yeah, uh will you be doing or have you done a postal vote? Or are you going to be going…did you… Ben No, I wanted to though. Actually one of the things this election, even though I’m voting here now, my home constitu…. Well my parents live in +city in the north of England+ which is near +city in the north of England+, and um, that’s actually +name of MP+… Moderator Oh Ben …who’s old ex-+MPs former cabinet position+… Moderator Yeah Ben …I don’t know if +MP identifier+ actually still up, I don’t know whether +MP identifier+ going up for re-election… Moderator I don’t know, I can’t remember actually… Ben I don’t, I don’t imagine most people would, but um…… I imagine not actually ‘cause see +MP identifier+ got in trouble for some +MP behavior identifier+ or something… Moderator Umm Hmm Ben …but um, I was, I ‘cause I actually find this very interesting, I worked in some factories around +city in the North of England+ quite a lot and I did come across quite a… I mean quite a lot of, I would say, bigoted views, and uh it quite worried me the amount of people who were quite interested in the BNP, and uh it’s something in +city in the north of England+ generally I’ve come across…. Moderator Mmm Ben Um, so part of me was actually really trying to think tactically voting there, even though really, I probably have, I’m spending more time here… Moderator Yeah Ben …I don’t really like +city in the north of England+ going home very much {laughs} But, if it happens again, but I would… but voting, I don’t know whether I would have voted Labour. I would have been looking at the polls there seeing who had been voting… Moderator How it was going to be… Ben Sorry Moderator There were, the **** ****, everyone’s gonna go, if you vote, it’ll be on the day, come down and… {Ray nods} Ben It’s nice, it’s an event Moderator Y…yeah? Is that…i…i… you know, it’s not like an inconvenience, it’s a… but it’s, you’re actually go… you’re going there and standing in a queue and, and getting the ballot and marking it and putting it in the… Ray Unless you’re really politically active between elections, the only one day that you can delude yourself…. {Participants laugh} Ray …into believing that you’re exercising some kind of power democratically right? Moderator Miles Miles I probably would’ve done a postal vote but I’ve literally just moved into a new flat so I’m {laughs} so, it’s… it’s **** it is basically… Moderator Yeah with the, the appli… the change of address and everything. Yeah. Ok. Um right, so we’re going to do a, a little exercise here. Um, I’ve got this sheet of paper that has um, the UK-wide party leader and then uh, Ieuan, uh, Wyn Jones the, Plaid Cymru leader here. Um but before we do this, uh, I just want to get you to do a bit of practicing on, on what this exercise involves. Um, it’s called “First Impressions” and the idea here is that I want you to sort of look at the photo and think about the person and um, and just write the things that come to your mind. Don’t rationalise them, don’t edit them, just sort of like, just write them down, kind of a brainstorming session right? So if we can do a little bit of practicing, um Natalie, if I said the name to you, Jeremy Paxman, uh what kinds of associations does that raise in your mind? Natalie Uh “pushy”, I think. Moderator {laughing} Ok. Ben what would Jeremy… Ben “Arrogant” came to my head {laughs} Miles I was going to say “To the point” Moderator “To the point”? Yeah, alright, Ray? Ray Don’t know who you’re talking about Moderator Oh, ok, alright, he’s a commentator on a **** called Newsnight, so Ray Hmm Moderator Uh, let’s see some, someone um, uh Prince Charles Ray “Irrelevant” Moderator {laughs} Ok, Miles. Ray Sorry {Moderator laughing} Miles Um {sighs} thought “big ears” {Heavy laughter from all participants} Ben Related point, he was really like… Moderator Yeah? Ben …inbred or something like that {Laughter continues} Moderator So this is it… Ben Small genetic flaw Moderator …it’s not just being, you know, it’s, it’s things, it’s just impressions and it doesn’t have to, you know, um, but when you, uh, sort of run out of things, um, and you move through each of the gentlemen here, um, after you’ve finished, go back and look at the words that you’ve written, and the ones that really um, matter in terms of your assessment of him, uh if you could put a p… an up arrow next to the ones that have positive associations, you know like this, for some reason this, um, really strikes me as a good thing or a bad thing, it’s got a negative arrow, a d…downward arrow ****, and if it’s, if it’s really important but you’re not sure if it’s positive or negative you put a little star next to it, so, but the instructions are on, so I’ll give you just a couple minutes to complete. {Moderator hands out papers} Miles Thank you Ray Thank you {FROM THIS POINT AUDIO TAPE CUTS OUT, LEAVING ONLY VIDEO AUDIO} {Background noise 39:29 – 44:13} {Ray asks Moderator a question, not discernable, seems to be indicating that he does not know about Plaid Cymru leader – fourth photo on the sheet - and says “I’m sorry” and shrugs his shoulders} Moderator Ok, yeah, that’s fine, yeah that’s ok. You’re not the only one. {Background noise 44:24 – 45:12} Moderator So can I just give people like another minute to uh, wrap up? Ben It’s really **** a lot of these {Moderator laughs} Moderator Ok, um, well um, if you don’t mind, uh Ben we’re just going get started and we’ll, we’ll get… you’ll…. we’ll just have yours, um, yeah but… can we just go in order from Gordon Brown… Ray Mmm Hmm Moderator …and um, so words people associate with Gordon Brown. Uh, Natalie can you start us off? Natalie Do you want them all or just…. Moderator Just a, couple you select Natalie Um, I said, “inarticulate” um, but “decisive”, um **** “aware”, ummm “goodly look” Moderator Ok, great, thank you. Ben. Ben Um, those are all really good ones {laughs}. Mine were like more kind of “old”, “serious”, “trying to smile” and “tired”. “Tired” is one thing I think is quite… Moderator Yeah Ben “Serious”, positive. Like, but “tired”. Moderator “Tired”… Ben But… Moderator “Tired” as in he looks tired or tired as i…i…in as in his impression that you get, he seems tired to you? Ben Just…. Just looks knackered all the time {laughs}, yeah I, I think I just, for… maybe I think he is… Moderator Yeah Ben It’s, it’s not like I’m tired, like “oh shut up…” Moderator You’re not tired of him… Ben It’s yeah, it’s that he’s tired. The party’s tired, I figure {laughs} Moderator Uh Miles Miles I also wrote down “tired”, I wrote “blaggard”… Moderator Ok Miles …um… and I, I kind of feel sorry for him, I don’t know why {laughs} {Participants laugh} Ben I bet you th…this is his reaction to a lot of people {Participants continue to laugh} Miles Yeah he just uh also uh looks like he needs a week off or something {Participants laugh} Moderator Yeah {laughs} alright good, thank you. Ray. Ray “Pragmatist”…. Moderator Ok Ray … “True politician”, “Cold”, “Calculating”… Moderator Mmm Hmm, Ok Ray Those are the list that I have **** Moderator Alright Ray …and only one of them had a positive connotation… Moderator Ok Ray the “calculating” one Moderator “calculating” was positive? Ray Yeah Moderator Y…you think that’s good for… Ray Well, I guess, you know, holding the position that he does, or potentially may again, yeah Moderator Ok Ray that’s really the extent Moderator Ok, interesting, interesting Ray Mmm Moderator Um, any uh, one else want to, uh, comment? {Silence} Moderator Alright, uh David Cameron Ray You don’t want to start with me {Moderator laughs} Ray “Elitist” Moderator Ok Ray “Paternalistic”, “Arrogant” Moderator Ok Ray That pretty much rounds it up, mm Moderator Right, Miles Miles Uh, “sharp”, seems “quite normal”, um “middle class”… that’s all I’ve got really Moderator Yeah? Ben. Ben “Smug”, “Too Smooth”, “Fake” and um, I’ll link this one to another one, um… he… I’ve put him down as “John Jackson” and um, Nick Clegg has got “Jack Johnson”… Moderator Ok Ben There’s this whole thing, i…it’s something that I saw in, uh in Futurama, where it was again, it was the presidential elections and it was like, and there were the two clones and it was all like “I’m Jack Johnson”, “I’m John Jackson, and I… I disagree with everything that this man has said ****” and it’s funny I, I, I, you know, y…you have a down arrow if it’s a big issue… Moderator Mmm Ben …I think it’s a big issue with Nick Clegg, um, it’s not a big issue with, with Cameron… Moderator Ok Ben …for me because it’s just kind of, it kind of, that all links into the ****, but he’s “loving it” as well, that’s what I put down as well… Moderator “Loving it” Ben …just he’s fucking enjoying it actually… Moderator The campaign or? Ben Just……. yeah, I dunno… Moderator Ok, dunno, just **** Ben …I just don’t like him… Moderator Ok Ben …well he’s um, hmmm… it’s a long **** isn’t it? Moderator Ok Natalie Natalie Um ****, um “designist”, “snobbish” and “out of touch” Moderator Ok, so generally common… some words in common, um, like “arrogant” but generally, ok um and then let’s double back. Uh, Nick Clegg. **** Natalie Um, “young”, “idealistic” um, “inexperienced” Moderator Ok. Ben? Ben Um, I put “J…Jack Johnson”… Moderator Yeah Ben …is the first one {laughs}, ‘cause he’s not different really, he… he just, he looks cartoonishly the same school as Cameron. Um, “Head teacher” is one thing I put down… {Participants laugh} Ben He definitely reminds me of like a head teacher, like uh… one I didn’t like when I was sixteen but now I’d be willing to give a go… {Participants laugh} Moderator Ok Ben Um… he genuinely does look a lot like Mr. McTate Moderator Ok Ben “Pleading”, that picture makes him look like he’s {laughs} looking at some ****, and I put “competent” and “workable” as in like… Moderator Ok Ben …he’ll do Moderator He’ll do Ben He’ll do, yeah {laughs} Moderator Uh, Miles Miles I just kind of have um, uh… Moderator Yeah Miles …I just put “He looks apathetic and he looks like he works for the Job Centre” {Uproarious laughter from participants} Moderator Ok, good. Ray Ray Um, I’m… ****, all I’m saying in mine is “relatively more idealistic”… Moderator Mmm Hmm Ray “fresh”, “articulate”, “relatively more impassioned” Moderator Ok Ray Yeah… to the others Moderator Um, and, um, uh Ieuan, Mr… the, the Plaid Cymru leader, Mr. Jones Ray It was complete indifference for me Moderator Ok Ray Yeah Miles I dunno Moderator Ok Miles Hmm Ben I’ve gone on looks alone, I don’t really know… just because you’ve got him, with the talking, I don’t know him, but I put “passionate”, “old” and “knowledgeable”, he does look, I mean he looks like he’s quite passionate about whatever he’s saying right then Moderator Ok Ben Simple judgment that he’s older, which probably, which probably means that he knows sort of something **** {laughs} Natalie Uh, I don’t really know about **** Moderator Ok. Yeah I should say, I got all of these from the parties on websites, so this was, this is the, sort of, projection of, um, that they wanted, they put out, so…**** Right, if you could put that with your other paperwork for me, so I keep things ****. Um, we just discussed um, you know, the leaders… well, um, your impressions of them. In terms of, this election, um, would you say that the leaders are playing an important role in… articulating their party’s policies or is there too much focus on the leaders, or, um, maybe something in between? Natalie I think it’s probably somewhere in between. It seems like they’re trying to give the impression that it’s about policy but really it seems to be quite a personality contest… {Participants make sounds of agreement} Natalie …um… but I think they, they sort of… especially with the whole debate thing, they sort of try and get across that it’s the policy that matters but really it’s who comes off looking best. Moderator Mmm Ben It’s done really well for the Lib Dems because before the Lib Dems have been like quite hot on the policy, they’ve been ****, a lot of people, especially on economics, have been like “Oh Vince Cable’s really well”, and the whole personality contest of the debates… Moderator Mmm Hmm Ben …has led Nick Clegg to be able to… because a lot of people were just like “And then there’s that other guy, Nick Clegg”, and now that he’s… it’s giving him a forum, which is, he’s never had before and he can… and it really helps the Lib Dems massively, while Labour and Conservatives **** say **** “Oh I’ve heard all this before over the ballot box…you know, u…uh the dispatch box…” Moderator Mmm Ben …it’s all, it’s really helped them, more than I think anyone quite anticipated Moderator Mmm Hmm Ben Which uh, I don’t know whether it’s good for politics Moderator Right Ben It’s hard to say, because, I mean, I think that we are used to people eh t… articulating. It kind of feeds into this whole, kind of, reality TV show stuff that we’ve been, that’s developed over, the first part of **** anyway, like time shares and stuff that, the debates just, it does make one…, makes you feel like Simon Cowell should be judging who’s winning, you know, how they did in the debate, I mean there’s quite a lot of **** and I kind of agree… Moderator Mmm Ben I don’t know whether it’s coming down, or…and maybe coming down is the only thing we can do to get people engaged with it. Unless we force people to vote, which is one of the options. Moderator Mmm {Ben laughs} Moderator So, leaders Miles, are they…? Miles I think, um, the way the m… the media portrays them, it is all t… to do with chRaycter really a lot of the time, um…. it’s…. rather than the policies, people do… well I think that, obviously it’s about the policies, but people see the front man, the face of the party, and that c…carries a long way I think… Moderator Mmm Miles So, yeah Moderator Has an impact on it? Miles Yeah, i…it has a massive impact I think Moderator Right, Ok. Ray. Ray Photo-op, sound bite personality. Moderator Mmm Hmm Ray My… I dunno, I mean, for me at least they cater to what they think is going to be most effective for them to c… to canvass votes right? So, I dunno. That’s what it is then, my problem is standing somewhere else I guess… Moderator Umm Hmm Ray …uhh, it shouldn’t, for me I mean, there’s less, to answer the question… Moderator Yeah Ray …there’s less policy and more of that… in what I perceive or see Moderator Ok Ray Mmm Moderator **** Ray Yeah, umm hmm Moderator **** right. Um, if you had to put these guys in rank order in terms of who you would give the job to, or… if you’re, if you were **** for PM, um, what would your rank ordering be? Who would go first, who would go second, who would go third? Ray Hmm… well, Clegg, Brown, the Plaid Cymru Guy {Participants laugh} Ray And then… David Cameron Moderator Ok. Um, Natalie Natalie Um, for me it’d go Brown, Nick Clegg, Plaid Cymru Guy {Participants laugh} Natalie …and then David Cameron Moderator {Laughing} Ok Ben I’d put… Clegg, um, Plaid Cymru Guy, Gordon Brown, David Cameron {Laughs} Moderator Miles Miles Same order um… Moderator As… Ben? Miles Yeah… Moderator Ok Miles …yeah… Plaid Cymru second, Brown and then David Cameron Moderator Ok Ben I think, I think Plaid Guy, I think, dunno, I think the problem is, just really boils down to…change… I think there’s an element of just people wanting…. Someone to have power who hasn’t already… and although obviously Cameron has led in opposition, that’s actually an incredibly powerful position, it’s too… powerful we say… maybe, I think, everyone wants to shake it up a bit… Moderator Mmm Ben …that’s what it is, it’s about shaking the glass and seeing what, where things fall, rather than the old… Moderator What we have Ben …swinging back and forth, I mean the whole concept of the… I mean it’s been bred into our m…media, I mean we’ve had a Swingometer for how many years now? Moderator Mmm Hmm Ben …I mean it’s just like, that’s not… Moderator Mmm Ben I dunno, is that what we actually want politics to be, this idea of it just swinging from one side to the other? Or do we actually want it to be… more of a… an actual… debate involving lots of people? Moderator Mmm Ben So, that’s the problem, there’s lot of binaries in our language, I’ve been going on to this in my head… Moderator Ok Ben …like reading lots of feminist literature and it’s really screwed me up. {Laughs} Moderator Aha, keep it up! {Participants laugh} Moderator Great, um, so, um {laugh}, that was really very off message for my uh role here. Um… right, now, i…i…in terms of the debates did anybody have a chance to… uh, let’s sort of f…first, did people have a chance to see the media coverage of it? Do, you know… you guys have, ok so, media coverage… Ray Do you …by media coverage do you mean the actual debate or analysis or…. Moderator Anything, like, like media coverage is um, headlines, um, you know, uh the news at six kind of summary kind of stuff. So, you know, it’s just the general kind of like news awareness of… Ray Mmm Moderator …of it. Not too much? Ray Analysis on the, on, on, on the radio. Analysis on the radio the day after properly **** but that’s it. Moderator Umm hmm, right. And you um… very busy but… you got… Miles I got nothing from last time yeah, so, (laughs) I haven’t seen anything Moderator Yeah, no, no… And you two have… you saw this on the news… Natalie Uh yeah, definitely for the first one but for the second one I tried to avoid it because I wanted to watch it, but I read an article about the second one yesterday, so Ben Yeah that’s uh, I mean same as ****, I haven’t read anything about it. I want to watch the whole debate myself. Trying to avoid front pages, although from what I’ve heard is that, typically a lon… newspaper way of doing it is, you get the whole spectrum of reactions when you look in the newspaper, political spectrum so, in a way it’s actually avoiding more of the television news or Radio BBC news, because… It’s funny how this consists of our, our media system… it’s the difference between the American one, like supposedly your American editor…. American, uh… newspapers are likely to be more objective while the television is very partisan… Moderator Mmm Ben …uh, over here it’s the complete opposite… Moderator Mmm Ben w…i… television is relatively partisan…. Relatively objective while our newspapers are horrendously partisan, uh, and so yes, I’m kind of avoiding, the television at the moment. Moderator Yeah Ben But I will, but I really have been listening to it. I really…there’s really interesting stuff happening like, the…what was it, on Radio 4 they had a… debates show every… The Now… The, the, it’s The Now Show but it’s, they’re doing it every day, it’s to do with the election… Moderator Umm Hmm Ben …it’s the uh, The Vote Now Show… Moderator Ok Ben …I think it is on Radio 4 which is doing like a w… a daily satirical rip… Moderator Ok Ben …into all the election stuff, um. Moderator So you’re catching that? Ben No, I’m not… Moderator {Laughing} Oh ok Ben I really want to but I just, yeah… Moderator What about **** Review, were…people have a chance to catch that or were you ****? Ok. Um, and did anyone actually see, you know like sort of sit through, I know you guys, you haven’t seen the second one… Um you watched the second one? Natalie I haven’t seen it Moderator Ok, ok did you, and did you, I know you watched the first or did you… Ben Yeah the whole start of it Moderator The whole thing, start to finish, do you know? Natalie Finish Moderator **** Ok, it’s ok! Um, so, in terms of the first debate, can I just ask, in terms of length; did you think it was about right, too long or too short? Natalie Um, I thought it was, or in terms of viewing that the number of questions, they didn’t seem to be that many, whereas **** they d…did cover as much as they probably should have done. But in terms of viewing it was about right. Moderator In terms of like, the number of minutes… Natalie Yeah Moderator Like, number of minutes was about right? Natalie Yeah Ben Mmm. I was a bit worried at first, ‘cause I was a bit… I didn’t realise there were three at first and I was like “huh?”, how often do you have to do this, this is ridiculous! And, but that actually, you know, I thought it was really good, um, for what it was, uh…. And like, it’s interesting, the s… the, the media split when you’ve got this, the Sky doing one… Moderator Mmm Hmm Ben …BBC doing the other and ITV doing the other one, um…. Yeah I think it was about right length wise, I think it was quite watchable, and of course digital technology make it a lot easier because you can just download it and watch it in your own time… Moderator Mmm Ben …and a lot of things like thi… I, I think it’s really interesting how technology is changing the debate. The, the, the kind of electioneering methods and what’s the capacity for you to make decisions? Like, you… I… I’m **** to this at all. BBC have done a really interesting thing with the “Democracy Live” section, you can now follow your MP on the BBC website whenever they say something in parliament… Moderator Mmm Ben …like ‘cause they record all of it, and what you can do, is you can type it in and it uses a search engine to find, within the video, that specific point where the mention is. You don’t have to watch three hours of parliamentary footage to find where your MP says something. Moderator Mmm Hmm Ben They’ll actually… it’s a really advanced search system… they’ll find… technology could revolutionise democracy and I think it’s… really interesting. Sorry…. Geek {laughs} Moderator Um… has anyone seen, uh, any coverage of sort of like the, um, the with the uh, BBC One, of the Welsh, uh, programming, uh I know that was on-line, there were some debates here, with uh, **** some other debates like Wales and Welsh candidates ****. {Participants shake heads} Moderator Ok, alright, great. Um, great, moving on. Um, well actually we’ve, we’ve already talked a little bit about a hung parliament, so, um, and, does anyone here speak Welsh? Miles Yeah Moderator Ok. Uh, let’s see um, but in terms of your local, um, the local programming, for maybe people who come here, uh, from other parts of the UK, um, do you feel watching, um, the.. w.. the B… with the, regional, uh, BBC programmes and other regional programmes that you get much more of a balance in terms of Welsh concerns, uh, versus maybe London-centric, um, news coverage in other parts of the UK? Natalie I don’t have a TV so… Moderator Ok Ben Nor me Moderator Ok right. Miles I don’t watch much tele… Moderator Mmm Miles at all, um, but I do think from what you’re saying, um, yeah it does cover more of the Welsh concerns here as, as well as, you know, the national… Moderator Yeah Miles …national concerns, can get, where you get the regional news and everything as well as, so, yeah, I think it does… Moderator More of a balance Miles Yeah, yeah Moderator Ok. Right, well I think, a couple things, um some of the questions weren’t relevant and, and because we’re a much smaller group we get through things a lot faster, so um, that’s, o…other than the post-election, um, questionnaire, or the post-election, post, er-um group, focus group question that I have for you, that’s really it. Before I close it up is there anything that somebody thought during the course of this; oh I forgot to mention this or I wish I would’ve brought that up **** in case there’s any good points that we haven’t had time to go through or something you remember? {Silence} Moderator Alright? Great, well I thank you guys for your time. Um, and… not to far off from where we were supposed to end so **** and hopefully I haven’t kept you too much. What’s um, what’s going to happen now is just, I’m going to give you these, um… where do I find them? Um, it’s just, it looks a lot scarier than it really is, it’s, uh, um, something on, a couple pages asking you for your impressions on leaders and when you finish that, let me just track down, uh, yeah here they are. If you can just come over here, um, and I need you to sign, uh, just a receipt, saying, uh, you participated and I’ll give you, um, the e-mail, and you can go on your way, um, after you pick up a few more items of food to take out. {Participants laugh} {General crosstalk} Moderator And then bring all your paperwork in one pile to me Unknown There’s a couple of slices of ****…. {RECORDING ENDS 1:03:47} Wales pre 2