For enthusiasts of raw denim in all its forms; from the rarest Japanese heritage jeans, to the most faded and repaired beater jeans which started out as raw denim.
Thoughts on The Flat Head
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I think your observations about Flat Head and other brands struggling due to revolving around the "vision" of the owner is absolutely correct. When I worked for Flat Head, this was very much my experience - although Flat Head was coming out with a lot of awesome stuff in 2013/14, this was also when they seemed to go off the rails with the "HARD BIRD" sub-brand and some other ill-advised ideas. I thought it was super weird but there was nobody around who could push back on these ideas.
A good example of a brand that faced the same crossroads and took the other path is Iron Heart. Haraki-san seems like he's been very receptive to feedback from Giles and the Western market in a way that Flat Head wasn't. (Giles also handled European distribution for Flat Head years ago.) As a result, Iron Heart has thrived.
I do think that the cult of the 501 is wearing thin. When I got into Japanese denim about a decade ago, what appealed to me was how different it was compared to what I'd seen before. I loved the weird fabrics and high-contrast fades and I associated pale 501s with dad jeans, which definitely was not cool.
Like a lot of others, over time I got more interested in the vintage aspects of denim and I no longer have much interest in 21 oz. super slubby rainbow weft denim or whatever. It's interesting to me how a lot of long-term western fans on here and Superfuture/Instagram have had a similar trajectory, moving away from the flashy brands and toward the more traditional ones like Ooe, Full Count, Warehouse, TCB, ONE PIECE OF ROCK, and so on.
However, in my case what appealed to me about getting a pair of Full Count jeans wasn't the pursuit of perfect vintage reproduction, but a desire to get a very good version of a "back to basics" jean that was pretty straightforward and classic. Other brands where you could get this same thing would be TCB, Tanuki, Japan Blue, etc.
To me, what makes brands like Tanuki, Japan Blue, and even 3Sixteen successful is that they make high-quality jeans that are a sort of blank canvas, which can easily fit into a wide variety of styles and don't immediately evoke connotations of the railroad and construction look. I think a major reason why Flat Head's jeans were very successful in the west for a while was because retailers like Self Edge distanced the product from the domestic version of the story. Surely the "blank canvas" SE05BSP jeans from Self Edge give a radically different impression than something like a flashy diamond bowling shirt or rockabilly shoes, right? But the latter was front and center of Flat Head's branding in Japan.
I do think Flat Head's Club Label was a step in the right direction, but it was too little, too late.
IMO, another shortcoming of Flat Head was that they handled their foreign distribution poorly and failed to get any meaningful amount of product to American retailers (besides Self Edge) in particular.
I feel that the other brands with a visionary director at the helm are the most vulnerable - Warehouse, Full Count, etc. Although from what people have told me, it seems like they're doing okay, so hopefully they'll be around for a while.
On the plus side, I think Flat Head's Stockburg-made leather goods are the best I've ever handled. Their flannels and other selvedge shirting fabrics are, IMO, the best of any brand. Their classic 14.5 oz. denim is still my favorite, and I think it's the greatest denim any brand has ever developed. Their THC tees, leather jackets, and loopwheel products are all exemplary. Flat Head made some of the very best stuff of any brand in these categories. It's just a shame that, in a way, they weren't quite allowed to shine with the idiosyncrasies of the brand.
By the way, what happened with The Real McCoy's? I must have missed that.
Thank you for the great insights Kyle.
Whilst I avoided specifically talking about Kobayashi's handling, I actually thought about what your experience would have been like years back.
McCoy boss retired and passed on the business to his son. And IMO quality has been dropping since.
That’s interesting to hear about RMC, and especially concerned about the drop in quality. A few months ago I was about to drop some serious coin on one of their leather flight jackets, but stopped short as the look and style was polarising, at least amongst my circle. When did the boss retire and when did quality diminish? For the price of that jacket, obviously I would be looking for the best if I ever wanted to splurge.
For what it's worth, I bought a McCoy's A-2 jacket recently and everything about it is basically perfect. I think you'll be okay with signature items like leather jackets, but I could see why there may be issues with quality of regular production items. The jackets are (according to Standard And Strange) constructed by a single artisan from start to finish. Most likely they're still made the same way that they always have been.
Thanks, that's reassuring to hear. Someday, I'll buy a piece. Someday. They are absolute grails, and I can't forget the experience of seeing some of them in the flesh at a local store.
That's a bummer. I recently got a McCoy's A-2 jacket and couldn't be happier with it. But it's sort of their signature product, I could see why there might be issues with more "mass produced" or new items in that case.
What what did happen to The Real McCoy’s?
The boss retired, and junior is running show.
So when you mentioned "RMC" in your blog, you were really talking about The Real McCoy's? Because when I googled rmc jeans, I found this interesting and pertinent link:
https://www.rmcjeans.com/browse/RMCJEANS-Jeans_11_35_0_na.html
They remind me of the flamboyant Evisu jeans. If my wife wouldn't divorce or kill me, I would seriously consider buying this pair:
RMC Jeans Hungry Dragon 1001 Model Japanese Selvedge Denim Jeans in Indigo with Red and Silver Embroidery RMC3743 ;-)
BTW, I have definitely heard of The Real McCoy's, and their offshoot brands, before. :)
Damn, they took so many design details from Evisu. Also the leather patch and all...I wouldn't be surprised they are done by the same persons running Evisu International
Funny story, I used to own Red Monkey Company stuff when I was a teen.
The brand started in HK, I think? Began with repro stuff that actually wasn't half bad, but turned to crazy designs that was popular with street style folks.
So maybe avoiding the fate of TFH? I guess we’ll see
So? as a micro brand owner myself, this whole TFH event is such an eye opener to me. To saw them open new stores not long ago at Tokyo (HARDBIRD). And keep releasing full collection of products, i thought they still doing well. But turn out even a brand as established as TFH collapse too...
As a young entrepreneur and managing an unknown denim brand from Indonesia, i can only see that maybe TFH did not explore the new fabric style or anything like how other Japanese brand of their calibre had offer this past few years.
So, is there any input and wisdom from you guys for me as a "Selvedge denim brand" owner to be able to stay relevant to this "Streetwear and Sneakers" trend and to be able to apply to a semi-casual customers based? Cause from what i see, customers with a full take on Americana style is very rare right now.
I'm still trying to figure out if I should stock up on hnw-52w flannels in a bunch of colors. I already own 4 but the fit is amazing on me and I love the fabric. Sad to see tfh go. I can't help but think my favorite brand tsg is close to follow. Similar vein of clothes not made for the west and poorly distributed in the market.
I found this comment funny considering that 6-7 years ago, there were lots of raw kickstarters and new brands coming out and the popular internet comments would be poking fun at how these are just "artisan" cone mill jeans with more direct to consumer business models.
Half a decade later, lots of folks are now looking at Cone mill fabric jeans with thick-lens nostalgia glasses.
To this point, I kinda suspect that TFH might be pushed by Self Edge to not distribute to other stores until well after the raw denim craze has reached its peak. In the same vein, I think PBJ only sold thru Blue in Green until like 2014 or 2015. Of course, I have no insider knowledge and this is just my groundless speculation.
Yeah, I actually like Cone's denim now. There are a lot of others that I prefer, but I've come to appreciate a classic, no-frills type of fabric. I do think that other brands like TCB, Full Count, and Warehouse do this better than Cone, though.
With a lot of those Kickstarter brands, I think they drew flack because of a lack of creativity/effort that compelled them to go for Cone since it was the most accessible and (probably) affordable selvedge out there. There were a bunch of brands putting out basically the same product, with very similar marketing slogans and such.
yeap. this is true.
He posted his equipment for sale on Instagram a couple months ago. I think he’s keeping the space and moving on to other projects. I recall it being something vague like that.
Edit: My mistake. I was thinking of Roy.
are you maybe thinking of Roy-and not real mccoy?
Yes! So sorry. Thank you for the correction.
I saw the news has already been broken here.
Very interested to hear what this sub has to say about TFH closing down:
Why do you think it is?
Who do you think/know is next?
What does it mean for our hobby?
Have a great weekend!
I think you hit the nail in the head with what happened to The Flat Head, it’s unfortunate though, and I’ll really miss pretty much everything that was offered to the western markets.
As you pointed out, the smaller repro oriented brands aren’t going anywhere, I hope you are correct, because aside from Flat Head, these are the only brands I’ve gravitated towards lately. I suspect that many hobbyists follow this same path, so it’s my hope that the other Japanese brands can evolve and stay relevant, so that when the younger crowd (the “hobbyists” amongst the younger crowd anyway) tires of whatever is new, these aforementioned smaller operations will get new business, keeping the niche alive and well.
I certainly hope so!
Am encouraged by the fact that there are a few smaller and younger brands in Japan that we have not heard much of - will be featuring two of them soon!
I'm so torn about this. Half of me is saying that a consumer goods business in a niche market no longer made enough money to keep operating. The other half is saying that it's a terrible shame to see this piece of craftsmanship and tradition die out. Both voices are pretty strident too.
Certainly useful to hold both perspectives in mind in this hobby.
Does this mean that we, (aka international denim fans), will never (??), see the 14.5oz pioneer denim available again? personally i'd love to see this fabric, and the other heavier weight FH fabrics available in some more contemporary cuts, aka, for western bodies, with larger pocket bags, thigh room etc. I wonder if another company can produce this same fabric, (if given the chance?).
Love my Flathead jeans. If you miss the feeling of being a chubby fourth grader, unable to do even a single pull-up in front of his entire class during the Presidential Fitness Challenge, I can not recommend trying on Flathead shirts strongly enough.
As someone who is sitting at the computer right now wearing a TFH shirt, I am triggered.
This may be more of a question for r/goodyearwelt, but since this (amazing) piece mentioned White's Boots I thought I'd ask - has there been a big change since they were acquired?
From my own perspective the quality has been declining, at least since the 2000's, but the acquisition came later.
I'm not a fan of their new marketing practices, their new IG is idiotic, and the fact that a megacorp owns the brand changes the entire essence of the boots for me.
Thanks!
Yikes. Bring that smoke over to the White's boots megathread over at style forum! haha jk. I own one pair and like I said above, a bit underwhelming.
I asked the same question over at Styleforum and the consensus was no. I can say, my first pair of White's was a bit underwhelming construction and quality wise. The fit and comfort are spot on though, so I kept em.
Thanks! My only pair is from 2014, and they're so over the top it's hard to form a fair opinion of them :p
I've seen a few recent pairs on SF and they look fantastic. I think part of my underwhelming feelings were me having my hopes high. I went off of their myth and echo. In reality, defects and accidents happen. That being said, it did drive me to try Nicks out and am currently waiting on UPS to drop off my first pair.
Interesting. Hadn't looked too close at Nicks before but I'm seeing the appeal.
Thanks again for your thoughful and like always well-written words.
I think it's not easy to survive in a shrinking market (at least when you look at the repro and Americana part). I certainly agree, TFH didn't change with the new demand although they developed new cuts like the 3012 or the D306 which are certainly tailored for the Western market and the current trends of high tapered aka "lifter cuts". Still, it was probably too late and not marketed enough for others to be aware.
And then, those cuts are not necessarily what "denim connoisseur" are after. But those people are rather the ones that would appreciate all the fine details and crafting TFH is offering and they are willing to pay the price for that (and TFH IS expensive in comparison with the other brands). The people wanting the high tapered cuts might not be willing to shell out the money (especially when I see the amount of questions regards sales, discounts, etc. around here on Reddit...I can't remember any of the old forums be so much discount-driven and yet everybody says they care for fair prices).
Furthermore, in terms of evolving: what should TFH have done? Also release colored Kakishibu dyed wefs or indigoxindigo or overdyed or indigoxblack denim like "everyone" else? I'm not sure if I (pesonally) wanted to see TFH evolve in the same direction like SDA, Oni, PBJ, Japan Blue or Tanuki are already doing...they would be just one more offering the similar style. Maybe it's better they fade away than to change in something they just not are and stay true to their initial idea. Even if it means faling...just a thought :)
Great points here mate, thanks for the thoughtful reply.
I didn't go too much into TFH itself, as I wanted to be respectful. Though, similar to Kyle's observations earlier, I do agree that TFH could have benefited immensely from more consultation for their labels, rather than having them created (poorly created in terms of image and styling) on their bosses whim.
Also, the rockabilly thing has been no good. Only in select circles in Japan and USA is that a 'thing' at all... But what can you do? Kobayashi likes rockabilly and TFH is his hobby :) Ultimately the weakness lies in Kobayashi's idiosyncrasies bleeding into his brand too much, so that sustainability across generations suffered. Whatever changes we saw in the last two years was too little, too late.
White's was sold, yes, but they're still White's. And they're continuing to evolve and come up with fresh ideas. Their MP service boot has been nothing short of an absolute hit and with their new Main Street boot they're showing that they can adapt and offer White's quality products to a new audience that doesn't want or need a chunky firefighter boot but instead wants something smart and casual.
I'm not worried about White's at all.
With White's I do understand multiple perspectives can be taken.
I just personally find buying luxe goods from megacorps to be troubling. To me, that's what White's boots are, now - luxe goods.
I really wanted a denim jacket from them... I think I want it more than ever now.
I tried their Tokyo store back in March. They didn’t carry any. Not that it was out of stock. They just didn’t carry denim jackets.
It's still pretty easy to find their denim shirts, which you can wear like a jacket (they're certainly heavy enough!) I've worn mine for over four years and it's one of my favorite things I own. See it here.
Wowza!
Thanks for the pic! I was inspired to buy one just now.
Same here... I wanted to like their jackets and shirts, and have purchased some. But the fits have been modelled after their boss, and are a bit weird. Wide shoulders and long arms relative to a narrow chest and torso.
The brand itself had heaps of issues over the years, in terms of selling outside of Japan. I didn't want to bash TFH too much in the article.
I’m going to frame my RJB’S to the wall!
This post has a lot to think about for me—thank you so much. Keeping things interesting is very important and brands will always have to do something special to hold customer attention—I an curious how much of purchased are for new products.
I wish we genuinely had more statistics to go by. How the mean age is changed for more brands, how often the average consumer makes purchases, and how many orders are from new customers as opposed to established ones.
Do products like seasonal releases get purchased more than established favorites?
I’m also curious about how general fashion trends connect with these dynamics. I love experimental clothing but, by and large, I think societal values have made a conservative turn. People don’t wash flashy colors or personalize their clothing in some of the area’s I’ve lived in. Rawdenim will likely always be a niche product but seems to me niche styles get scrutinized a bit more now—but this might just be my limited experience.
I'm sure top tier fashion consultants would have these kind of hard data but sadly their pricing would likely be out of reach for small businesses :(
Perhaps someone could start an initiative with similar menswear stores in North America (or elsewhere) to survey their customers regarding their demographics and purchase decisions. Of course, that would require far more work than what simple hobbyists are capable of or motivated to do.
Statistics would be useful and is certainly something I try to collect from industry contacts when I can.
That type of knowledge is worth money, however, and not lightly shared.
Thanks Mike! You always bring an in-depth insight into the denim world which is always very enlightening to me. I also had never heard of that RMC jeans brand before now.
It seems to me that your assessments in your article are spot-on for the most part.
As I like to say, every company that is trying to sell something these days has to have a gimmick to be able to make a good amount of sales. But with the social media influences these days, they also have to be able to connect somehow with the younger masses to be successful, which does not necessarily bode well for those of us who are no longer younger and have more aged tastes.
While this is definitely true, I don’t think that brands are going to completely abandon retro-style jeans. Samurai, IH, Tanuki, SDA, and many others already do modern takes on classic styles and they seem to sell well. Those classic styles are timeless and will continue to sell years from now.
The brands that only do repro are the ones that are going to be vulnerable going forward.
Meanwhile, Conner's Sewing Factory is getting more and more popular so he had to stop taking direct orders and the wait time is 1+ year. But that is surely an exception since he is a very small business.
For the bigger brands you are probably right although Warehouse seems to be still doing fine.
I agree that focused, storied small-time makers can do well.
Yeah, I worry about brands like TCB and Fullcount. Both are established and make nice stuff, but I don’t see how they compete with PBJ, Oni, Tanuki, SDA, Samurai, and even N&F with little presence in the West in a shrinking market.
I think TCB, Ooe, and Conners are pretty safe, since they range in size from a workshop with a few people to a one-man brand. The (reduced) demand for very accurate vintage repro seems to be best met by those types of makers.
There seems to be so much demand for ONE PIECE OF ROCK and Ooe that I could see those brands continuing to thrive and serve the repro-centric denim nerd even if all the others went down. On the other hand, the one (two?) person nature of those brands makes it unlikely they continue when the owners decide to retire.
For sure, and thanks for reading!
I didn't want to come across as overly ageist in the article. Coolness, spending, etc all change with age. At the end of the day, big brands need to be constantly adding fresh blood to their consumer base.
Damn, shots fired at Whites boots! haha jk
This was kinda a slap to the face to 'heritage' or 'traditional' denim fans like myself. That being said, it was really insightful and honest. I think you nailed it; the old guard doesn't really matter much to younger denim heads. It's nice and makes for a good story but times change, people change and things evolve.
Haha, a reflection perhaps. I've been watching the denim and boots scene for some time, and I definitely don't consider myself to be a young denim head.
It seems each generation will want to differentiate from, and even surpass, the previous. Given repro and vintage style was hot up until earlier this decade in our community, I wouldn't be surprised that the next decade will bring with it a push back against that.
This was a really really interesting read and I’m saddened to hear TFH is closing down but I’m never surprised when brands that seem like they have it together fall apart - it happens all time.
Fashion systems kind of force brands to stretch themselves and if the customer has lost interest after all that it can be crushing. I’ve been interested in denim for a while but the vintage-fancy-dress-costume style tribe has never been my bag and it must be a shrinking customer base.
I don’t agree that it has anything to do with not connecting with influencers - that kind of thing is just so not the kind of engagement brands like this benefit from. Also I haven’t heard the word Orientals in a while.
So well written though really enjoyed that
Thanks for reading!
Just to clarify that Oriental is a word that is still commonly used in my part of the world, and being from Taiwan myself I don't feel like it's a bad word. Perhaps it is different where you are from? No offence meant though.
A fantastic post
I’m ok with TFH going down. The clothes fit me better than any brand. I’m a Texan. No one wants to see a aging rock star still trying to stay relevant. As a working professional horseman. It’s not a hobby for me it’s my uniform. I’ve lost interest in iron heart because they didn’t stick to the game plan. I don’t relate to the posers and normies who wear it now. It’s better to burn out than to fade away
How many don’t mess with Texas bumper stickers do you own?
I wore out 3 pairs of 3009 pioneer. On my third flat head wallet. Own 8 loopwheel flat head t shirts. And five long sleeve flat head shirts. Zero bumper stickers. It’s not my fault they out of business. Plus someone needs to have an opinion around here that isn’t “ those jeans look great on you. Sick fades “
You know... this particular part rings true with me. If given a choice between the company bowing out gracefully like this vs. dying a slow death by declining quality and losing their identity, I suppose the former is a far more comforting choice for fans of the brand.