pouët.net

It would create a whole new genre of trolling: write some troll post, wait for replies, delete post.

Not delete, but modify would be ok, as long as one can see the diffs (like stackoverflow, or even facebook does)

That is in the issue tracker btw., so I guess there will be some (time limited) editing possible in the future.

i'm forking over the cash THIS instant!!

Just keep the queries about air-speed velocities about unladen swallows to the minimum. It's my weak spot.

Gloom, are we talking about European or African swallows?

African of course. European would have been too easy.

<feature request>on the oneliner on avatar mouseover show not only nickname but also timestamp</feature request>

Please use the official project issue tracker. They're more likely to get handed / get a response than in this thread.

(Can we stop necroposting?)

posting in an epic thread.

So it's been a whole year since Pouet 2.0 has been opensourced and we have had great success with a whopping 2 outside people contributing.

But hey, at least you're making demos instead.

Right?

Gargaj: whats your complaint?

playing the martyr?

you made it pretty clear that you alone were in charge of pouet's future and that you didn't want anyone submitting any patches to your baby until you say it's ready to receive any, and god forbid they are not precisely aligned with your vision, which incidently you don't even bother documenting but that "anyone can go on irc and bother you about it if they're really interested".

right, set yourself up to fail and then blame the community.

next you'll be claiming the lack of support is all analogue's fault for "forcing you to open source", when in the end you ran it how you saw fit and, surprise, you don't like other people contributing to your code.

whatever man, good luck with that.

i think you did a good job with 2.0 and kudos for the effort, i'm pretty sure everyone (except maybe stefan) will thank you personaly for that at one point or another, but please, do yourself a favor: leave your victim cloak at home.

[citation needed]

bold added by me.

Then when 2.0 came there was a thread saying clearly: patches not welcome for now.

And now we are on 2.0 a few months past. No "you can submit patches now" announcements. No new standards (whatever that meant) announced. No roadmap announced. So how are people supposed to contribute? Blindly guess what's worth doing next and get rejected? What's the forum to discuss new features? What thread? Issues corner on github? Are we supposed to guess? Or "just contact me on irc if you're really interested"? That's not properly open. And that's no wonder people don't contribute.

And yes, they should contribute. And yes, technically they can contribute.

But don't come and whine that no one is when you're doing it wrong. We (analogue and i) tried to help you (Gargaj) to do it right in the first place and you were all "it's my game now, this is how it's gonna be and the whole community is on my side, this is much better, it's open source mmkay, just me controlling it all, and it's a real bother you know? but i can't let anyone else touch this or it'll explode, can't document my vision either so anyone could contribute, it would be a waste of time, better just do it and you can come on irc if you're serious". Fuck that shit. You're not pro open source, you're not doing it right, that's why you're not getting proper support.

You don't have time? Fair enough, delegate. You don't know how? Open a thread.

But you don't get to come back and whine about how open doesn't work when you don't support it properly. Not while i'm reading atleast.

Projection

I can follow ps' point of view... For example, last time I proposed a bug fix, it was discarded because Gargaj "doesn't mind". I could have done a contribution to fix that bug, but clearly after that comment (and then silence) I had less than zero motivation. The result is that the layout of bbs is still broken when there's a too long topic.

Er, well, while I think the complaint at the core is a bit valid it could have been put across better. That said,

To be honest, Pouet is pretty well formed and complete. It works well enough that honestly, new features are less cake and more frosting (as that metaphor goes). There was a thread created (pouet 2.0 bugs me beautifull) to help with some sort of direction for bugs and later features, though admittedly by Tomoya and not Gargaj. (If you're being a stickler.)

Also if you don't remember, Gargaj wasn't really for open sourcing it initially until after it was ready to go, particularly for reasons of realizing actual contributions would be low. This was more or less foisted upon him, but seeing as it can't be taken back at this point it just has to be lived with.

Well sure, a good chunk of people here are programmers. However the hard part of any project is balancing what needs to be done versus all the suggestions. Not everyone has the time or inclination to spin up on a project they don't have much of an idea about in the implementation. So in that sense suggesting things is far easier than doing them, but there are also suggestions which actually are actually very easy to do and thus far far easier for someone already in on the project to do than someone new. (Though plenty of people feel this is true for any such suggestion they make, leading to things wanted far exceeding developers' time and inclination.)

I don't know that it quite went that way, but I don't think I could summarize it all in a way people would agree with either.

Taking it a bit further out, though, many projects do have a vision of sorts to keep. There's a person or group that maintains the idea and at best it is published somewhere and discussed. (An example is Python with GvR, he is co-author on PEPs, etc.) If every project accepted everything anyone felt was a good idea, they'd either never get the needed stuff done or they'd have so much to support the project becomes unwieldy. Too many people think it's acceptable to contribute something by dumping it on the doorstep of the project and asking (or demanding!) integration. After that, they disappear. At best, they provide support during the integration process. So you need to make it clear what you take and what you don't and help people turn things they want to contribute in to things you will take. This doesn't have to be a dictatorship. I personally don't think that is the case here.

Now not to say you don't have any points, could there be more installation notes? More documentation (on anything)? and a written vision / roadmap so it's clear what this project isn't trying to be? Certainly!

Your points are sharp and barbed, but on some level fair. There's always room for improvement. However they do sound a little vilifying. Things get better not by attacking each other. (At least I would hope. Humanity seems to have a penchant for wars.)

Yay threads! I like threads. Bring on the pony pictures! Seriously though, why not? Maybe find out what people would want or consider useful to be able to contribute more to the project, then work to solve those.

As a CSS guy, tables are funky! But anyway, not all suggestions are of immediate importance to everyone. If you're the only one who has an issue with it, then the suggestion of manners of fixing it was appropriate at least, though perhaps he would have taken it if you actually submitted it as a pull request. A better answer may have been in order, too.

I once put something in on a framework, patch attached even, and they didn't take it. Other people told me it was useful. Nope. Sometimes you gotta lump it. Gargaj didn't take my editor pull request the first time either. I wanted the items to be clickable icons/images, but he approved it with text.

*shrug* I dunno ...

This new necroposting-started stuff is beginning to sound like it might become a mudpit ... :P