Object 3

Transcript of Norman Dodd Interview

1982 A.D.

with

G. Edward Griffin

Alan Gaither was, at that time, President of the Ford Foundation. Mr. Gaither had sent for me when I
found it convenient to be in New York, asked me to call upon him at his office, which I did. On arrival,
after a few amenities, Mr. Gaither said, "Mr. Dodd, we have asked you to come up here today because
we thought that, possibly, off the record, you would tell us why the Congress is interested in the
activities of foundations such as ourselves."
Before I could think of how I would reply to that statement, Mr. Gaither then went on to say, "Mr.
Dodd, all of us who have a hand in the making of policies here, have had experience operating
under directives, the substance of which is, that we use our grant-making power so as to alter life
in the United States that it can be comfortably merged with the Soviet Union."

Warning! You are about to enter the Reality Zone -- a place were truth is
stranger than fiction -- where knowledge is king -- where myths are
shattered and deception exposed.
It is a place where the lessons of
history are found, and where true-life adventures reveal the hidden nature
of man.

If you proceed, you will not be able to return to the twilight zone from
which you came.

You have five seconds remaining to escape.

1 2 3 4 5.
Welcome to the Reality Zone. I am Ed Griffin. The story we are about to
hear represents a missing piece in the puzzle of modern history. We are
about to hear a man tell us that the major tax-exempt foundations of
America, since at least 1945, have been operating to promote a hidden
agenda.
That agenda has nothing to do with the surface appearance of
charity, good works or philanthropy.

This man will tell you that the real objective has been to influence
American educational institutions and to control foreign policy agencies of
the Federal government. The purpose of the control has been to condition
Americans to accept the creation of world government. That government is
to be based on the principle of collectivism, which is another way of
saying socialism; and, it is to be ruled from behind the scenes by those
same interests which control the tax-exempt foundations.

Is this a believable scenario?

Well, the man who tells this story is none other than Mr. Norman Dodd who, in the year 1954, was the
staff director of the Congressional Special Committee to investigate tax-exempt foundations -sometimes referred to as the Reece committee, in recognition of its chairman, Congressman Carroll
Reece. I conducted the interview we are about to hear, in 1982. I had no immediate use for the
material at that time, but I realized that Mr. Dodd's story was of great importance.
Since he was advanced in age and not in good health, I wanted to capture
his recollections on videotape while he was still with us. It was a wise
decision, because Mr. Dodd did pass away just a short time afterwards.

In later years there was a resurgence of interest in Mr. Dodd's story, and
we released the videotape to the public in 1991. And so, what now follows
is the sound track taken from the full, unedited interview, broken
occasionally only for a tape change, or to omit the sound of a passing
airplane. It stands on its own as an important piece in the puzzle of
modern history.

[begin interview]

Griffin: Mr. Dodd, let's begin this interview by a brief statement, for
the record, telling us who you are, what your background is, and your
qualifications to speak on the subject.

Dodd: Well, Mr. Griffin, as for who I am, I am just as the name implies -- an individual born in New
Jersey and educated in private schools, eventually in a school called Andover, Massachusetts, and then
Yale University.
And, running through my whole period of being brought up, growing up, I
have been an emphaticable [sic] reader, and I have had one major interest
and that was this country, as I was led to believe that it was originally
founded.

I entered the world of business knowing absolutely nothing about how that
world operated. And, I realized that the only way to find out what that
world was, and consisted of, would be to become part of it. And I then
acquired some experience in the manufacturing world, and in the world of
international communications, and finally chose banking as the field I
wished to devote my life to.

I was fortunate enough, to secure a position in one of the important banks

in New York. I lived there. I lived through the conditions which led up
to what is known as the crash of 1929. I witnessed what is tantamount to a
collapse of the structure of the United States as a whole.

Much to my surprise, my superiors, in the middle of the panic in which they

were immersed, confronted me. I was confronted with the question, "Norm,
what do we do now?"

I was thirty at the time, and I had no more right to have an answer to that
question than the man in the moon. However, I did manage to say to my
superiors, "Gentlemen, you take this experience as proof of something that
you do not know about banking."
And you better go find out what that
something is, and act accordingly.

Four days later, I was confronted by these same superiors, with a statement
to the effect that, Norm, you go find out. And I really was fool enough
to accept that assignment, because it meant that you were going out to
search for something, and nobody could tell you what you were looking for.
I felt so strongly on the subject that I consented to it.

I was relieved of all normal duties inside the bank and, two and a half
years later, I felt that it was possible to report back to those who had
given me this assignment. So, I rendered such a report and, as a result of
the report I rendered, I was told the following:
"Norm, what you are
saying is, we should return to sound banking."
And I said, Yes, in
essence, that's exactly what it is that I am saying.

Whereupon, I got my first shock, which was a statement from them to this
effect: "We will never see sound banking in the United States again." And
they cited chapter and verse, to support that statement.

What they cited was as follows:

since the end of WWI, we have been
responsible for what they call the institutionalizing of conflicting
interests. And they are so prevalent inside this country, that they can
never be resolved.

This came to me as an extraordinary shock because the men who made this
statement were men who were deemed as the most prominent bankers in the
country. The bank of which I was a part was spoken of a Morgan bank.
Coming from men of that caliber, a statement of that kind made a tremendous
impression on me.

The type of impression that it made on me was this: I wondered if I, as an

individual, as what they call a junior officer of the bank, could with the
same enthusiasm foster the progress and the policies of the bank. I spent
about a year trying to think this out, and came to the conclusion that I
would have to resign.

I did resign. As a consequence of that, I had this experience. When my

letter of resignation reached the desk of the president of the bank, he
sent for me. I came to visit with him and he stated to me, "Norm, I have
your letter, but I do not believe you understand what has happened in the
last ten days." I said, No, Mr. Cochran, I have no idea what's happened.

Well, he says, "the directors have never been able to get your report to
them out of their minds and, as a result, they have decided that you, as an
individual, must begin at once, and you must re-organize this bank in
keeping with your own ideas." He then said, "Now, can I tear up your
letter?

And inasmuch as what had been said to me, what he was offering me, at the
age of (by then) thirty-three, was about as fine an opportunity for service
to the country as I could imagine. I said, Yes. And they said they
wished me to begin at once, and I did.

Suddenly, in a span of about six weeks, I was not permitted to do another

piece of work. And, every time I brought the subject up, I was kind of
patted on the back and told, "Stop worrying about it, Norm. Pretty soon
you will be a vice-president and you will have quite a handsome salary, and
ultimately be able to retire on a very worthwhile pension and, in the
meantime, you can play golf and tennis to your hearts content on weekends."

Well, Mr. Griffin, I found I could not do it.

I spent a year,
figuratively, with my feet on the desk, doing nothing. I just couldn't
adjust to it. So I did resign. This time my resignation stuck.

Then, I got my second shock, which was the discovery that the doors of
every bank in the United States were closed to me and I never could get a
job, as it were, in the bank. So I found myself for the first time since I
graduated from college, out of a job.

From then on, I followed various branches of the financial world, ranging
from investment counsel, to membership in the stock exchange. I finally
ended up as an advisor to a few individuals who had capital funds to look
after.

In the meantime, my major interest became very specific, which was to

endeavor, by some means, to get the educational world to actually, you
might say, teach the subject of economics realistically, and move it away
from the support of various speculative activities that characterized our
country.

I have had that interest and you know how it is, if you generate a specific
interest, you find yourself gravitating toward persons with similar
interests. Ultimately, I found myself kind of at the center of the world
of dissatisfaction with the direction in which this country was headed.
And, I found myself in contact with many individuals who, on their own, had
done a vast amount of studying and research in areas which were part of the
problem.

Griffin: What point in your career did you become connected with the Reece
Committee?

Dodd:

Nineteen hundred and fifty-three (1953).

Griffin:

Dodd:

1953.

And what was that capacity, Sir?

That was in the capacity of what they called Director of Research.

Griffin:

Can you tell us what the Reece Committee was attempting to do?

Dodd: Yes, I can tell you. It was operating and carrying out instructions
embodied in a Resolution passed by the House of Representatives, which was
to investigate the activities of foundations as to whether or not these
activities could justifiably be labeled un-American -- without, I might
add, defining what they meant by un-American. That was the Resolution
and the committee had, then, the task of selecting a counsel, and the
counsel, in turn, had the task of selecting a staff; and, he had to have
somebody who would direct the work of that staff, and that was what they
meant by the Director of Research.

Griffin: What were some of the details, the specifics, of what you told
the committee at that time?

Dodd: Well, Mr. Griffin, in that report, I specifically -- number one -defined what was, to us, meant by the phrase un-American.
And, we
defined that, in our way, as being a determination to effect changes in the
country by un-Constitutional means.

We have plenty of Constitutional procedures, assuming that we wished to

effect a change in the form of government, and that sort of thing. And
therefore, any effort in that direction, which did not avail itself of the
procedures authorized by the Constitution, could be justifiably called unAmerican. That was the start of educating them, up to that particular
point. The next thing was to educate them as to the effect on the country,
as a whole, of the activities of large, endowed foundations over the then
past forty years.

Griffin:

What was that effect, Sir?

Dodd: That affect was to orient our educational system away from support
of the principles embodied in the Declaration of Independence, and
implemented in the Constitution; and to educate them over to the idea that
the task now was to effect an orientation of education away from these
briefly stated principles and self-evident truths.

And, thats what had been the effect of the wealth which constituted the
endowments of those foundations - foundations that had been in existence
over the largest portion of the span of fifty years -- and holding them
responsible for this change. What we were able to bring forward was -what we had uncovered was -- the determination of these large endowed
foundations, through their trustees, actually to get control over the
content of American education.

Griffin: There is quite a bit of publicity given to your conversation with

Rowan Gaither. Will you please tell us who he was, and what was that
conversation you had with him?

Dodd: Rowan Gaither was, at that time, President of the Ford Foundation.
Mr. Gaither had sent for me, when I found it convenient to be in New York.
He asked me to call upon him at his office, which I did.

Upon arrival, after a few amenities, Mr. Gaither said, "Mr. Dodd, we have
asked you to come up here today, because we thought that, possibly, off the
record, you would tell us why the Congress is interested in the activities
of foundations such as ourselves."

And, before I could think of how I would reply to that statement, Mr.
Gaither then went on, and voluntarily stated, "Mr. Dodd, all of us who have

a hand in the making of policies here, have had experience either with the
OSS during the war, or with European economic administration after the
war. We have had experience operating under directives. The directives
emanate, and did emanate, from the White House.
Now, we still operate
under just such directives. Would you like to know what the substance of
these directives is?"

I said, Yes, Mr. Gaither, I would like very much to know. Whereupon, he
made this statement to me, "Mr. Dodd, we are here to operate in response to
similar directives, the substance of which is that we shall use our grantmaking power so to alter life in the United States, that it can be
comfortably merged with the Soviet Union."

Well, parenthetically, Mr. Griffin, I nearly fell off the chair. I, of course, didn't, but my response to Mr.
Gaither then was, Oh, Mr. Gaither, I can now answer your first question. You've forced the Congress
of the United States to spend a hundred and fifty thousand dollars to find our what you have just told
me. I said, Of course, legally, you're entitled to make grants for this purpose. But, I don't think
you're entitled to withhold that information from the People of this country, to whom you're indebted
for your tax exemption. So why don't you tell the People of the country just what you told me? And
his answer was, We would not think of doing any such thing." So, then I said, Well, Mr. Gaither,
obviously, you forced the Congress to spend this money, in order to find out what you just told me.
Griffin: Mr. Dodd, you have spoken, before, about some interesting things
that were discovered by Kathryn Casey at the Carnegie Endowment. Would you
tell us that story, please?

Dodd: Sure, glad to, Mr. Griffin. This experience you just referred to,
came about in response to a letter which I had written to the Carnegie
Endowment Center, National Peace, asking certain questions and gathering
certain information.

On the arrival of that letter, Dr. Johnson,

Carnegie Endowment, telephoned me and said,
York?" I said, Yes, I did, more or less
"When you are next here, will you drop in and

who was then President of the

"Did you ever come up to New
each weekend. And he said,
see us? Which I did.

And again, on arrival, at the office of the Endowment, I found myself in

the presence of Dr. Joseph Johnson, the President, who was the successor to
Alger Hiss, two vice-presidents and their own counsel, a partner in the
firm -- a fellow by the name of Cromwell. And Dr. Johnson said (again
after amenities), "Mr. Dodd, we have your letter. We can answer all those
questions, but it would be a great deal of trouble. We have a countersuggestion. Our counter-suggestion is that, if you can spare a member of
your staff for two weeks, and send that member up to New York, we will give
to that member a room in the library, and the minute books of this
Foundation since its inception. And we think that, whatever you want to
find out or that the Congress wants to find out, will be obvious from those

minutes."

Well, my first reaction was they had lost their minds. I had a pretty good idea of what those minutes
would contain, but I realized that Dr. Johnson had only been in office two years, and the vice-presidents
were relatively young men, and counsel also seemed to be a young man. I guessed that, probably, they
had never read the minutes themselves.
And so, I said that I had somebody and I would accept their offer. I went back to Washington, and I
selected the member of my staff who had been a practicing attorney in Washington. She was on my
staff to ensure I did not break any Congressional procedures or rules. In addition to that, she was
unsympathetic to the purpose of the investigation. She was a level-headed and very reasonably
brilliant, capable lady, and her attitude toward the investigation was this: What could possibly be
wrong with foundations? They do so much good.
[Start of side 2]

Well, in the face of that sincere conviction of Kathryn's, I went out of my

way not to prejudice her in any way, but I did explain to her that she
couldn't possibly cover fifty years of handwritten minutes in two weeks.
So, she would have to do what we call spot reading.
I blocked out
certain periods of time to concentrate on. Off she went -- to New York.
She came back at the end of two weeks, with the following recorded on
dictaphone belts.

We are now at the year nineteen hundred and eight, which was the year that the Carnegie Foundation
began operations. And, in that year, the trustees meeting, for the first time, raised a specific question,
which they discussed throughout the balance of the year, in a very learned fashion. And the question is
this: Is there any means known more effective than war, assuming you wish to alter the life of an entire
people? And they conclude that, no more effective means to that end is known to humanity, than war.
So then, in 1909, they raise the second question, and discuss it, namely, how do we involve the United
States in a war?
Well, I doubt, at that time, if there was any subject more removed from the
thinking of most of the People of this country, than its involvement in a
war. There were intermittent shows in the Balkans, but I doubt very much
if many people even knew where the Balkans were. And finally, they answer
that question as follows: we must control the State Department.

And then, that very naturally raises the question of how do we do that?
They answer it by saying, we must take over and control the diplomatic
machinery of this country and, finally, they resolve to aim at that as an
objective. Then, time passes, and we are eventually in a war, which would
be World War I. At that time, they record on their minutes a shocking
report in which they dispatch to President Wilson a telegram cautioning him
to see that the war does not end too quickly. And finally, of course, the

war is over.

At that time, their interest shifts over to preventing what they call a
reversion of life in the United States to what it was prior to 1914, when
World War I broke out. At that point, they come to the conclusion that, to
prevent a reversion, we must control education in the United States. And
they realize that is a pretty big task. To them it is too big for them
alone.

So they approach the Rockefeller Foundation with a suggestion:

that
portion of education which could be considered domestic should be handled
by the Rockefeller Foundation, and that portion which is international
should be handled by the Endowment.

They then decide that the key to the success of these two operations lay in
the alteration of the teaching of American History. So, they approach four
of the then most prominent teachers of American History in the country -people like Charles and Mary Byrd. Their suggestion to them is this, Will
they alter the manner in which they present their subject And, they get
turned down, flatly.

So, they then decide that it is necessary for them to do as they say, i.e.
build our own stable of historians." Then, they approach the Guggenheim
Foundation, which specializes in fellowships, and say When we find young
men in the process of studying for doctorates in the field of American
History, and we feel that they are the right caliber, will you grant them
fellowships on our say so? And the answer is, Yes.

So, under that condition, eventually they assemble twenty (20), and they
take these twenty potential teachers of American History to London. There,
they are briefed in what is expected of them -- when, as, and if they
secure appointments in keeping with the doctorates they will have earned.

That group of twenty historians ultimately becomes the nucleus of the

American Historical Association. And then, toward the end of the 1920's,
the Endowment grants to the American Historical Association four hundred
thousand dollars ($400,000) for a study of our history in a manner which
points to what this country look forward to, in the future.

That culminates in a seven-volume study, the last volume of which is, of

course, in essence, a summary of the contents of the other six.
The
essence of the last volume is this: the future of this country belongs to
collectivism, administered with characteristic American efficiency.

That is the story that ultimately grew out of, and of course, was what

could have been presented by the members of, this Congressional Committee,
and the Congress as a whole, for just exactly what it said. But, they
never got to that point!

Griffin: This is the story that emerged from the minutes at the Carnegie
Foundation?

Dodd:

That's right.

Griffin:

Dodd:

And so?

It was official to that extent.

Griffin:
And Kathryn Casey brought all of these back, in the form of
dictated notes, or verbatim readings, of the minutes?

Dodd:

On dictaphone belts.

Griffin:

Are those in existence today?

Dodd: I don't know. If they are, they're somewhere in the archives, under
the control of the Congress, the House of Representatives.

Griffin: How many people actually heard those?

transcripts made?

Dodd:

Or, were they typed up,

No.

Griffin:

How many people actually heard those recordings?

Dodd: Three maybe. Myself, my top assistant, and Kathryn. Yeah, I might
tell you this experience, as far as its impact on Kathryn Casey is
concerned. Well, she was never able to return to her law practice. If it
hadn't been for Carroll Reece's ability to tuck her away in a job with the
Federal Trade Commission, I don't know what would have happened to
Kathryn.
Ultimately, she lost her mind as a result of it.
It was a
terrible shock to her. It is a very rough experience for her to encounter
proof of this kind.

Griffin:

Mr. Dodd, can you summarize the opposition to the Committee, the

Reece Committee, and particularly the efforts to sabotage the Committee?

Dodd: Well, it began right at the start of the week of the operating
staff, Mr. Griffin. It began on the day on which the Committee met for the
purpose of consenting to, or confirming, my appointment to the position of
Director of Research. Thanks to the abstention by the minority members of
the Committee from voting, that is, the two Democratic members that is
why, technically, I was unanimously appointed.

Griffin:

Wasn't the White House involved in opposition?

Dodd: Not at this particular point, Sir. Mr. Reece ordered Counsel and
myself to visit Wayne Hayes. Wayne Hayes was the ranking minority member
of the Committee, as a Democrat. So, we -- Kathryn and I -- had to go down
to Mr. Hayes office, which we did. Mr. Hayes greeted us with the flat
statement, directed primarily to me, I am opposed to this investigation.
I regard it as nothing but an effort on the part of Carroll Reece to gain a
little prominence. So, I'll do everything I can to see that it fails.
Well, I have a strange personality, in the sense that a challenge of that
nature interests me.

Our Counsel withdrew. He went over and sat on the couch in Mr. Reece's office, and pouted. I, sort of,
took up this statement by Mr. Hayes as a challenge, and set myself a goal of winning him over to our
point of view.
I started by noticing that, on his desk, there was a book. The book was of the type and there were
many in those days -- that would be complaining about the spread of communism, and Hungary. That
type of book.
This meant to me that, at least Hayes had read the book. So, I brought up the subject of the spread of
the influence of the Soviet World. For two hours, I discussed this with Hayes and, finally, he ended up
by rising from his desk and saying, "Norm, if you will carry this investigation toward the goal that you
have outlined to me, I will be your biggest supporter."
I said, Mr. Hayes, I can assure you. I will not double-cross you. Subsequently, Mr. Hayes sent word
to me that he was in Bethesda Naval Hospital, with an attack of ulcers. He asked if would I come and
see him. Which I did. He then said, "Norm, the only reason I've asked you to come out here is that I
just want to hear you say, again you will not double-cross me." I gave him that assurance, and that was
the basis of our relationship.
Meanwhile, Counsel took the attitude expressed in these words, Norm, if
you want to waste your time with 'this guy' (as he called him), then you
can go ahead and do it, but don't ever ask me to say anything to him, under
any conditions, on any subject.

So, in a sense, that created a deck for me to operate in relation to Hayes,

on my own.

As time passed, Hayes offered friendship, which I hesitated to accept

because of his vulgarity. I didn't want to get mixed up with him socially,
under any conditions.

Well, that was our relationship for about three months. Eventually, I had
occasion to add to my staff. As a result of adding to my staff a topflight intelligence officer, both the Republican National Committee and the
White House resorted to stopping me from continuing this investigation in
the direction Carroll Reece had personally asked me to go.

Mr. Griffin, that direction was to utilize this investigation to uncover

the fact that this country had been the victim of a conspiracy. That was
Mr. Reece's conviction. I eventually agreed to carry out that direction.

I explained to Mr. Reece that his own Counsel wouldn't go in that

direction. He gave me permission to disregard our own Counsel and to set
up an aspect of the investigation outside of our office -- more or less
secretly. The Republican National Committee got wind of what I was doing,
and they did everything they could to stop me. They appealed to Counsel to
stop me. Finally, they resorted to the White House.

Griffin: Was their objection because of what you were doing, or because of
the fact that you were doing it outside of the official auspices of the
Committee?

Dodd: No. The objection was, as they put it, my devotion to what they
called "anti-Semitism." That was a cooked-up idea. In other words, it
wasn't true at all. But, any way, that's the way they expressed it.

Griffin:

Dodd:

Excuse me.

Why?

Then they made it stick.

Griffin:

Why did they do that?

How could they say that?

Dodd:
Well, they could say it, Mr. Griffin.
But, they had to have
something in the way of a rationalization of their decision to do
everything they could to stop completion of this investigation, given the
direction that it was moving. That direction would have been exposure of

this Carnegie Endowment story, and the Ford Foundation, and the Guggenheim,
and the Rockefeller Foundation -- all working in harmony toward the control
of education in the United States.

Well, to secure the help of the White House in the picture, they got the White House to cause the liaison
between the White and the Hill -- a major person -- to go up to Hayes and try to get him, as it were,
actively to oppose what the investigation was engaged in.
Hayes, then, very kindly, would listen to this visit from this major person. Then he would call me and
say, Norm, come up to my office. I have a good deal to tell you.
I would go up. He would tell me he just had a visit from this major person, and he wants me to break
up this investigation. So then I said, Wayne, what did you do? What did you say to him? He said, I
just told him to get the hell out. And he did that three times. I got pretty proud of him, in the sense
that he was, as it were, backing me up. We finally embarked upon hearings at Hayes request. Hayes
wanted to get them out of the way, before he went abroad in the summer.
Griffin: Why were the hearings finally terminated?
Committee?

Dodd:

What happened to the

What happened to the Committee, or to the hearings?

Griffin:

The hearings.

Dodd: The hearings were terminated. Carroll Reece was up against

furor in Hayes, through the activity of our own Counsel.
Hayes
convinced that he was being double-crossed; and he put on a show
public hearing room, Mr. Griffin, that was an absolute disgrace. He
Carroll Reece publicly every name in the book.

such a
became
in the
called

Mr. Reece took this as proof that he couldn't continue the hearings. He actually invited me to
accompany him when he went down to Hayes office and, in my presence, with the tears rolling down
his face, Hayes apologized to Carroll Reece for all he'd done, and his conduct. He apologized to me. I
thought that would be enough, and Carroll would resume. He never did.
Griffin: This charge of anti-Semitism is kind of intriguing to me.
was the basis of that charge? Was there any basis for it at all?

What

Dodd: The basis used by the Republican National Committee was that the
intelligence officer I had taken on my staff -- when I oriented this
investigation to the exposure of, and proof of, a conspiracy -- was known
to have a book, and that book was deemed to be anti-Semitic.
It was

childish, but it's what the second-in-command at the Republican National

Committee said, and he told me I'd have to dismiss this person from my
staff.

Griffin:

Dodd:

Who was that person?

A Colonel Lee Loraine.

Griffin:

Lee Loraine.

And what was his book?

Do you recall?

Dodd: The book they referred to was called Waters Flowing Eastward.
was a very strong castigation of the Jewish influence in the world.

It

Griffin: What were some of the other charges made by Mr. Hayes, against
Mr. Reece?

Dodd: Just that Mr. Reece was utilizing this investigation for his own
prominence inside the House of Representatives. That was the only charge
Hayes could think up.

Griffin: How would you describe the motivation of the people who created
the foundations -- the big foundations -- in the very beginning? What was
their motivation?

Dodd: Their motivation was, well, let's take Mr. Carnegie, as an example.
His publicly declared and steadfast interest was to counteract the
departure of the colonies from Great Britain.
He was devoted just to
putting the pieces back together again.

Griffin:
Would that have required the collectivism to which they were
dedicated?

Dodd: No. No. No. These policies are the foundations' allegiance to
these un-American concepts;
these policies are all traceable to the
transfer of the funds over into the hands of Trustees, Mr. Griffin. Those
Trustees were not the men who had a hand in the creation of the wealth that
led to the endowment, or the use of that wealth for what we would call
public purposes.

Griffin:

It was a subversion of the original intent, then?

Dodd: Oh, yes! Completely so.

bankers and lawyers.

We got into the worlds, traditionally, of

Griffin:
How have the purpose and direction of the major foundations
changed, over the years, up to the present? What are their purposes and
directions today?

Dodd: 100% behind meeting the cost of education, such as it is presented

through the schools and colleges of this United States, on the subject of
our history - to prove that our original ideas are no longer practical.
The future belongs to collectivistic concepts.
There is just no
disagreement on this.

Griffin: Why do the foundations generously support communist causes in the

United States?

Dodd: Well, because, to them, communism represents a means of developing

what we call a monopoly -- as the organization, we'll say, of large-scale
industry into an administrable unit.

Griffin:

Dodd:

Do they think that they will?

They will be the beneficiary of it, yes.

[end interview]

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