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We created this section of the interview guide because we kept getting questions
on what to expect when interviewing with specific industry groups.
This chapter deals with real estate development and REITs, and the associated
real estate industry groups at investment banks and PE firms. Many of these
questions also apply to interviews at commercial real estate firms and REITs, and
even real estate-related asset management firms.
Within real estate, we focus on property development and equity REITs since
those are the most common topics in interviews.
A couple points:
1. This is advanced material. You should not expect to receive all these
questions in entry-level interviews unless you have worked at a bank
before.
2. You will still get normal accounting, valuation, and modeling questions
even if you interview with specific industry groups – so don’t forget about
those.
3. I’ve divided this into “High-Level Questions” – good to know even for
entry-level interviews – and then advanced questions on specific topics
like accounting, valuation, and modeling that are more appropriate for
lateral interviews.
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Table of Contents:
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These are the most important questions to know for entry-level interviews with
real estate groups.
Even if you know more than these topics, you should downplay your knowledge
in interviews and set expectations low – otherwise you open yourself up to
obscure technical questions.
You can divide real estate into individual properties and then real estate
investment trusts (REITs) – companies that buy, sell, develop, and operate
properties. They’re like private equity firms, but for buildings rather than
companies.
You can then divide properties by sector – industrial, offices, hotels, multi-
family, retail, storage, and healthcare are a few examples.
REITs are divided into equity REITs (invest directly in properties), mortgage
REITs (invest in mortgages and loans rather than properties themselves), and
hybrid REITs (invest in both properties and loans).
You can divide REITs according to the property sectors above as well as the
geographies they focus on.
As with any “Why this industry?” question, a good answer is personal and filled
with details specific to you – someone you met, an experience you had, or even a
class or project you completed. But at a high-level, here are a few reasons you
can use to support the anecdote(s) you provide:
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Real estate is a reliable asset class that isn’t going anywhere – unlike a
field like technology that’s constantly changing, buildings will exist and
produce income as long as humans live in them.
Real estate affects your everyday life – everyone lives in some form of
real estate asset, and most people work in them as well. No other
investments are like that.
There are many ways to invest in real estate – you can buy properties,
develop properties, renovate properties, invest in REITs, mortgages, loans,
and so on.
Accounting and valuation differ significantly, which makes it more
interesting than standard companies as you have to think about corporate
structure and even basic concepts like Depreciation differently.
Think “startup meets leveraged buyout” for property development. You start by
constructing a building that initially generates no revenue, and then after you’ve
finished constructing it, you assume that tenants move in and start paying rent.
It’s different from normal 3-statement models because you start with no revenue
and no expenses initially, and then scale them up over time; but it’s also not a
pure LBO model because you’re using Debt and Equity to fund the development
of a new asset rather than the purchase of an existing asset.
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4. What are the key metrics you use to analyze and value a property?
The property size – lot size, gross area, and rentable area – is quite important, as
are the revenue and expenses. Revenue consists of rental income and then
miscellaneous sources such as parking income, food & beverages (for hotels),
and so on. Expenses for properties are primarily operating expenses (energy,
utilities, maintenance, repairs, and insurance) and property taxes.
But the 2 most important metrics for properties are Net Operating Income
(NOI) and the Capitalization Rate (Cap Rate).
The Cap Rate equals the property’s Net Operating Income divided by the
Property Cost.
So, if the NOI is $10 million and the building costs $100 million, the Cap Rate is
10%.
Cap Rates are the reciprocal of valuation multiples and measure how much you
earn in cash for each dollar you invest in the property.
A lower Cap Rate (e.g. 5%) means the property is expensive, and a higher Cap
Rate (e.g. 10%) means that it’s less expensive.
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In the UK and a few other countries, the term “Yield” is used instead of Cap
Rate.
5. What is a real estate investment trust (REIT), and why would you invest in
one?
A real estate investment trust (REIT) is a company that buys, sells, develops, and
operates properties and/or real estate-related assets.
They’re just like PE or VC firms, but for properties rather than companies.
They were created to give average people the ability to invest in property
without having to come up with $100 million to buy an entire building.
REITs pay no corporate taxes if they distribute 90% of their taxable income as
dividends, earn 75% of their gross income from real estate, have 75% of their
total assets related to real estate, and have more than 100 shareholders (they also
can’t have fewer than 5 investors that own over 50% of the company).
So you’d invest in a REIT if you want reliable, dividend income with the
possibility of some stock price appreciation. The REIT itself saves on taxes, but
you as the investor do not since you still pay taxes on those dividends.
REITs offer more stable revenue streams than other companies because tenants
often sign long-term contracts and because people always need to rent
apartments and offices – it’s not like the technology industry where the latest fad
might kill a company that was huge 2 years ago.
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So you can project a REIT’s financial statements by looking at all of these options
on an individual property level.
For example, you could model the REIT as acquiring $500 million worth of new
properties, assume a Cap Rate on those properties, and then reflect that $500
million investment on the Cash Flow Statement and show the resulting revenue
and expenses on the Income Statement.
A REIT’s financial statements just represent the sum of all the properties in its
portfolio, along with some added corporate overhead and other Assets and
Liabilities such as cash and Debt.
There are no corporate taxes on the Income Statement because REITs are
exempt if they pay out 90% of their taxable income as Dividends.
Real estate comprises the majority of their Assets, and the Assets section
of the Balance Sheet is divided into Real Estate Assets and Non-Real
Estate Assets.
They are constantly acquiring, developing, and disposing of properties,
so those are major Cash Flow Statement items; you also see Discontinued
Operations on the Income Statement.
Because of their high capital requirements and the need to issue dividends
constantly, REITs are always low on cash and need to issue Debt and
Equity all the time to continue operating.
For a more detailed list, please see the REIT Accounting section of this guide.
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You can still use public comps and precedent transactions, but you use different
metrics and multiples – FFO and AFFO and P / FFO per Share and P / AFFO per
Share instead (see next question).
A DCF also still works, but normally you use Levered FCF or a variant thereof;
and a Dividend Discount Model (DDM) still applies since REITs must issue a
predictable amount of dividends each year.
But the Net Asset Value (NAV) Model is more common than the DCF or DDM
and uses the REIT’s Balance Sheet and portfolio-wide Net Operating Income to
value the firm.
You assign a Cap Rate to the REIT’s 12-month forward NOI to determine the true
value of their Real Estate Assets, then you adjust and add in all their other
Assets, subtract their Liabilities, and divide by the share count to get NAV per
Share. Then, you can compare that to the current share price and see if it
represents a premium or discount.
You can also use the Replacement Cost method – you estimate how much it
would cost to re-construct a REIT’s entire portfolio – but that is more common at
the property-level.
9. What are the most common operating metrics and valuation multiples for
REITs?
The two most important operating metrics are Funds from Operations (FFO)
and Adjusted Funds from Operations (AFFO).
AFFO = FFO – Maintenance CapEx – Gain / (Loss) on Sale of Land + Other Non-
Cash Charges
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Note that there is no standard definition for AFFO, but the most important
adjustment is the subtraction of Maintenance CapEx. You will see many
variations.
You use FFO because Depreciation is exceptionally high for REITs, but most
property actually appreciates over time – so Depreciation creates a very
misleading Net Income number. It’s fine for normal companies since factories
and equipment do wear down and need to be replaced over time, but it’s not as
applicable to properties.
And Gains and Losses are unpredictable and dependent on market conditions, so
you adjust for them and assume that they don’t contribute to a company’s
recurring earnings capacity.
AFFO gets you closer to how much in cash earnings the REIT is generating on an
ongoing basis, because Maintenance CapEx is necessary to keep all their
buildings in working order, and because Gains or Losses on land are also
unpredictable.
Both FFO and AFFO are based on Net Income, so they are Equity Value-based
multiples. You can use Equity Value / FFO and Equity Value / AFFO, or Price
per Share / FFO per Share and Price per Share / AFFO per Share.
Those multiples are intended to improve upon the standard P / E multiple – they
should not be compared to EV / EBITDA or Free Cash Flow-based multiples
because they’re measuring different things.
10. What are the most common REIT corporate structures and how do they
affect operating models and valuation?
Traditional is easy: the REIT owns all existing Assets when the company is
formed and all future Assets as well when they get acquired or developed. But,
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With an UPREIT structure, the property owners contribute property but get
Operating Partnership Units (OP Units) that represent ownership in the REIT
rather than cash, so they don’t get taxed immediately. The disadvantage is that
the REIT management may also own OP Units, which can create conflicts of
interest (e.g. one group wants to agree to an acquisition but the other does not).
A DownREIT is similar, but the Partnership behind the DownREIT only owns
new Assets they acquired rather than all existing Assets as well. And the
management team cannot own OP Units, which prevents conflicts of interest.
None of this affects modeling and valuation work too much – you just have to
make sure you add in the OP Units or DownREIT Units or whatever they’re
called when calculating the diluted share count (see the Accounting section for
more).
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Once again, the idea is “startup meets leveraged buyout” – you start with
nothing, draw on Debt and Equity to construct the building, and then start
realizing revenue and paying for operating expenses and property taxes once it’s
finished. Then, at the end, you sell the building and earn a return on your
investment.
Project Finance is similar, so many of these questions apply to that as well – the
terminology is a bit different, but the concepts are the same.
1. How do you determine the total square meters or square feet in a building?
Property size is based on the size of the lot you acquire and what percentage the
building can take up (the Maximum Allowable Lot Coverage). For example, if
the lot size is 10,000 square meters and Allowable Lot Coverage is 80%, you can
use 8,000 square meters for the building’s footprint. This number is determined
by local zoning requirements.
Then, to determine the total allowable square meters for the building you need to
use the FAR (see below) and multiply that by the lot square meters. Then you
can divide by the building footprint area to get the number of floors in the
building, using a partial floor at the top in case it’s not evenly divisible.
2. What is the FAR, and how does that impact the property size and other
parameters?
FAR stands for Floor Area Ratio and tells you the maximum allowable square
meters or square feet per square meter or square foot in the lot.
For example, if the lot is 10,000 square meters and the FAR is 10, your building
can take up 100,000 square meters across all the floors.
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Based on the FAR, the lot size, and the ground floor footprint, you can determine
the number of floors in the building and the total rentable area inside.
Gross Area (or Gross Square Footage or Gross Square Meters) is how much space
the entire building takes up, including walls, elevators, lobby areas, and so on.
Rentable Area is how much space can actually be rented out to tenants, so it
excludes walls, elevators, lobbies, and anything else that cannot generate rental
income.
Normally, you assume that the Rentable Area is a percentage of the Gross Area –
values in the 70-90% range are common, depending on the building type. A
higher percentage means that the income potential is higher.
4. How do you estimate a property’s revenue? What are the main revenue
categories?
For properties, the main revenue category is rental income. Here’s how you
calculate it for a few different building types:
For the first two property types, you can also earn income from parking and
from other properties within the building (e.g. including a retail storefront on the
first floor).
Hotels can earn income from a wider variety of sources, including parking, food
& beverages, telecom services, hosted events, and more.
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Normally you look at the Potential Rental Income and then net that against a
Vacancy Allowance – so if the potential income is $10 million but there’s a 5%
vacancy rate, you would only earn $9.5 million in actual rental income.
You determine the right numbers for everything above by speaking with other
developers and looking at comparable buildings in the market.
6. What are the most important property-level expenses, and how do you
calculate them?
The two most important categories are Operating Expenses and Property Taxes.
Property Taxes are determined by local zoning regulations, and you calculate
them based on the square feet or square meters of the property.
Operating Expenses are divided into categories such as energy and utilities,
repairs and maintenance, insurance, and general & administrative (to pay for the
staff, for example).
Normally you also link these to the square feet or square meters in the building,
but with residential properties you might link them to the number of apartments
or homes instead; for hotels you might link them to the number of rooms or
make them a percentage of revenue.
7. Let’s say the property I’m developing has an attached parking structure.
How do you factor this into the model, and how do you determine revenue
and expenses?
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If you’re building a parking structure, you’ll have to add the construction costs
(Hard Costs, Soft Costs, and anything else that applies) to the Total
Development Costs of your project (keep reading for more on this). So the
parking structure will increase the amount of Debt and Equity you need at the
beginning to finance everything.
Normally you just assume a simple margin on the revenue. Then, as the
construction phase of the project finishes you would scale in the revenue and
expenses as tenants move into the building.
Similar to an Income Statement for a normal company, you still start with
revenue at the top, move down to expenses and finish up with Net Income at
the bottom.
For revenue, you might see all the different income sources – for example, Office
Tenants, Retail Tenants, and Parking – and these would be netted against a
Vacancy Allowance that accounts for the fact that the building will never be 100%
occupied.
The potential income less the Vacancy Allowance gives you the Total Revenue.
On the expense side, you would see Operating Expenses (sometimes split by
category) and Property Taxes.
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NOI is similar to EBITDA for normal companies since it excludes D&A, non-cash
charges, corporate-level taxes, and interest.
Below the NOI line, you would see Interest Income / (Expense) and possibly
Depreciation (more common if the building is already finished).
Net Income would be at the bottom, just like what you would see for a normal
company.
9. Two analysts are looking at the same property and the same financial
information, but one analyst says the Net Operating Income is $10 million, and
one says that it’s $9.5 million. Why is there a discrepancy?
Some people subtract this when calculating NOI, arguing that it represents a true
cash cost to keep the building generating income at its current level. Other
people exclude it on the argument that Capital Expenditures should not be
reflected in NOI.
No one is “correct,” but the $9.5 million number is probably closer to the cash
flow generated by the building.
There may be other discrepancies with NOI as well, so you have to dig in and
ask how it was calculated.
10. What’s the difference between Net Operating Income and Stabilized Net
Operating Income? When do I use each one of them?
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When you buy or sell properties, it’s better to use the Stabilized Net Operating
Income when describing a building because it represents the “steady-state” profit
potential. If a property is under development or under renovation, the current
NOI may be misleading because you’re not factoring in the entire building.
You do still need to look at the Non-Stabilized NOI when you’re modeling
property developments, but generally when you’re buying and selling properties
both parties prefer to deal with the Stabilized NOI instead.
11. Do you think NOI accurately describes the cash flow that a property can
generate? Why or why not?
Yes and no – it’s better than Net Income since it excludes Depreciation, but it also
excludes Interest and possibly CapEx, so it doesn’t represent a property’s true
cash flow.
NOI tends to be more accurate for established properties where there’s no Debt
and where CapEx is minimal.
12. Walk me through the Construction Timeline – what are the key phases, and
how long does each one last?
The Construction Timeline outlines tells you how many months it will take to
plan the building, complete construction, and then get tenants to move in. The
main phases:
Pre-Construction: Acquire the land, hire architects, and plan the building.
Construction: Construct the building and any attached structures such as
parking garages.
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How long each phase takes is difficult to generalize because it depends on the
area, the size of the building, and the resources at your disposal, but generally
the last two phases take more time than pre-construction.
13. How do you estimate the Total Development Costs? What are the main
categories?
The main categories are Land Acquisition Costs; Hard Costs (materials and
constructing the building); Soft Costs (design, accounting, legal, permits);
Furniture, Fixtures & Equipment (FF&E); and Tenant Improvements (TIs).
Each category may have a fixed component and then a variable portion that
depends on the size of the building – the variable portion may be linked to the lot
square footage (e.g. for land acquisition), the gross square footage, or the rentable
square footage.
FF&E and TIs are similar, but TIs are custom to individual tenants – for
example, if one tenant wants a special type of desk or a different setup from
other offices, that would count as a Tenant Improvement.
14. Let’s look at the Total Development Costs in relation to the Construction
Timeline. When do you pay for each expense category?
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15. What’s the Loan-to-Cost (LTC) ratio, and how do you pick the proper
values to use?
The Loan-to-Cost ratio tells you how much Debt vs. Equity you’re using to
finance the development. For example, if the Total Development Costs are $100
million and the LTC ratio is 80%, you would use $80 million of Debt and $20
million of Equity.
You look at comparable property developments and speak with banks and
lenders to determine an appropriate value.
You can’t tell based on just this information – you also need to know:
17. What are the different types of Debt and Equity you might see for a real
estate development?
Developer Equity: This is cash that the developer itself puts down to
finance the property, in exchange for a % ownership.
3rd Party Investor Equity: This is cash that outside investors put down to
finance the property, in exchange for a % ownership.
Mezzanine: This is a riskier type of Debt with higher interest rates than
senior notes; it’s in between Equity and senior notes in the capital
structure.
Senior Notes: This is a less risky type of Debt than mezzanine, with lower
interest rates; it may also be secured by collateral (the building).
You may see variations of these as well – for example, you might have different
groups of Equity investors or you might have several tranches of senior notes.
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18. Why might interest be capitalized for real estate development loans?
In the beginning, there’s no cash flow from the property to cover the initial
interest payments – so they are capitalized and added to the initial funds you
borrow to pay for the project.
19. Why do you see multiple different types of Equity in real estate
development? In a leveraged buyout normally it’s just the PE firm’s equity
contribution.
This happens because the developer doesn’t have enough cash to fund
everything by itself. Unlike an LBO where the PE firm is buying a company
that’s already operational and has cash flows, in real estate development the
“company” doesn’t exist yet and has no cash flows at first.
That means that more financing is required, and that 3rd party investors will have
to contribute Equity as well.
It’s similar to how a startup works – the Founders might contribute their own
cash at first, but past a certain point they need to raise venture capital from
outside investors to fund the company.
20. Let’s say that I’ve distributed all my development costs properly over 5
years. How do I determine when to draw on Equity and when to draw on Debt
to fund the development?
You always start by drawing on Developer Equity first, until it’s exhausted and
you can no longer draw on any; then you move to 3rd Party Investor Equity until
that’s exhausted, and then to Mezzanine and finally the Senior Notes.
Normally in real estate development, you work backwards and calculate the
Total Development Cost first, and then use that to calculate the amount of
funding required – so you never run into a scenario where you “run out” of
funds completely.
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That also creates a circular reference in models, but it’s commonplace in real
estate.
21. Wait a second – normally in an LBO model, we draw on all the Debt and
Equity to buy the company in the beginning. Why do you draw on them
gradually over each month / year in a real estate development?
There’s no point doing this in real estate development because you don’t need all
the funds at once – buildings cost something to develop over time, so you can
boost your returns by delaying the Equity and Debt draws further into the future
rather than drawing on everything in the beginning.
22. I’ve finished modeling the property and want to calculate the IRR now –
how do you determine the net sale proceeds at the end?
You calculate the annual, stabilized NOI (see the question above on stabilized
NOI), and then subtract Maintenance CapEx from that number, also possibly
adjusting for inflation (more meaningful if it takes many years to sell).
Then, you assume a Cap Rate and use that to determine the price you get – if the
stabilized NOI is $10 million and the Cap Rate is 5%, the price is $10 million / 5%,
or $200 million.
Next, you subtract out the Selling Fees (% of the Sale Price) and the repayment of
outstanding Debt to get the net sale proceeds – it’s very similar to an LBO model.
23. That seems very arbitrary. How can you tell whether the Cap Rate is too
low or too high? Isn’t there a better way to do the analysis?
It is very arbitrary, but Cap Rates are the universal method in real estate – just
like you always use EBITDA Exit Multiples for LBOs of normal companies.
There are many flaws with Cap Rates – discrepancies in how NOI is calculated,
lack of data in certain geographies (Manhattan is easy, but Middle-of-Nowhere-
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Town-in-Saskatchewan is not), and inability to know how the median rates will
change over time.
All you can do is look at a sensitivity table and calculate how the IRR changes at
different purchase prices and selling prices, just as in an LBO model.
24. What is a Developer Promote, and why might the 3rd Party Investors want
to use them and give up some of their returns in the process?
Let’s say that the Developer owns 10% of a property and the 3rd Party Investor
owns 90%. Therefore, the Developer would get 10% of the returns and the 3rd
Party Investor would get 90% of the returns.
With a Developer Promote, the Developer might get more than 10% of the returns
if the IRR hits a certain threshold.
So maybe up to a 10% IRR, the Developer just gets 10%. But then if the IRR is
above 10%, the Developer gets 15% of any returns between 10% and 15%, and
then 20% of any returns above 15%.
The net effect is that the Developer may earn more than the 10% he was
originally entitled to if the property development goes well and they achieve a
high IRR.
It’s similar to how federal taxes work in many countries: you pay a certain
percentage up to a certain income level, then an increased percentage up to
another income level, and so on.
A 3rd Party Investor would agree to this to incentivize the Developer to perform
well – when all is said and done, they are not really giving up that much since
they often own 90%+.
By giving up a small chunk of their returns, they can get the Developer to finish
construction more quickly and therefore make the project more successful for
everyone.
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25. How would you calculate Developer Promotes and allocate investor
returns?
This is almost impossible to explain in words, but you have to keep track of the
amount of Equity invested so far, and then calculate what the investors would
need to earn on that capital to hit a certain IRR.
Then, you subtract that from the amount of capital they actually have earned and
allocate that depending on the ownership percentages and developer promotes
before moving to the next tier.
Here’s a quick example: let’s say that the Developer and 3rd Party Investor
invested $20 million altogether and earn back $40 million in 5 years when the
building is sold, which is around a 15% IRR.
If they had only earned back $32 million, that would be around a 10% IRR.
So if the Developer owns 10% and the 3rd Party Investor owns 90%, that $32
million would be divided and the Developer would get 10%, or $3.2 million, and
the 3rd Party Investor would get 90%, or $28.8 million.
Now there’s $8 million left to allocate. Between 10% and 15% IRR, the Developer
gets 15%, so they get 15% of that $8 million, or $1.2 million, and the 3rd Party
Investor gets 85%, or $6.8 million.
So the end result is that the Developer earns a 17% IRR rather than a 15% IRR,
and the 3rd Party Investor still gets nearly a 15% IRR, lower by only around 0.2%.
This whole structure is called the “waterfall” and it applies to any situation
where the returns allocated to each Equity investor differ at different IRR levels.
26. Could you ever get a high IRR in real estate development without selling
the property?
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No – just think about the numbers for a second. Properties typically have yields
of 5-10%. So even if you pay for the development 100% in cash, you only get back
5-10% per year, and it might therefore take 10-20 years to get your initial
investment back.
Roughly speaking, you need to double your money in 5 years to get a 20% IRR.
So if it takes you 20-40 years to double your money (or even 10-15 years), you’ll
never get the 20%+ return that Equity investors are looking for.
27. Could you use a DCF to value a property? Why not do that rather than
using Cap Rates?
You could, but it is not taken too seriously in real estate and pretty much
everyone uses Cap Rates; often the DCF is just used to cross-check your
assumptions.
The DCF for real estate has the same problems that it does for normal companies
– too much reliance on future assumptions, difficulty in picking the correct
Terminal Value, and one added problem: the Discount Rate is more difficult to
determine since you can’t use WACC and CAPM to calculate it.
Mechanically, it’s the same as a DCF for a normal company but you’ll have to
estimate certain numbers (i.e. the Discount Rate) based on comparable properties
or market standards rather than calculating them.
28. Walk me through how the Replacement Cost (AKA Replacement Value)
method works.
You would start by calculating the Asking Price per Square Foot or Square Meter
for a property you’re considering buying – let’s say the asking price is $100
million and it has 100,000 square feet, so it’s $1,000 / square foot.
Then, you would call a developer or someone else in the market to look at the
property and estimate how much it would cost to build it yourself – the Land
Acquisition Costs, Hard Costs, Soft Costs, and so on.
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Let’s say you call several developers and they estimate that they could construct
it for $95 million, which comes to $950 / square foot.
In this case, the asking price is above the Replacement Cost so you’re buying the
building at a premium.
That’s not necessarily “bad,” but it might mean the building is overvalued – or it
might just mean it’s a normal market price if everything else in the area also sells
at a premium to the Replacement Cost.
29. What are the advantages and disadvantages of the Replacement Cost
method?
So the Replacement Cost method is used more as a sanity check for the values
implied by Cap Rates and other methods rather than as a strict valuation
methodology.
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The previous section detailed what to expect for general real estate development
questions.
Here, we’ll go into more detail on specific segments such as hotels and offices,
and look at more granular details such as different lease types and scenarios such
as renovations and acquisitions.
Unless you have previous experience in real estate, these questions are not likely
to come up in interviews – but we’re publishing them anyway just in case you
are more experienced.
A hotel’s Income Statement looks much more like a normal company’s Income
Statement:
You may also go down below NOI on the Income Statement and list
Depreciation and Net Interest Expense as well, which gets you to Net Income.
It’s based on the # of rooms, the Occupancy Rate, and the Average Daily Rate
(ADR).
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3. The vacancy rate for a hotel is 25% and the Average Daily Rate (ADR) is
$500. What is its RevPAR?
In this case, they’ve given us the Vacancy Rate, which is the opposite of the
Occupancy Rate. So the Occupancy Rate would be 1 – 25%, or 75%.
RevPOR is a related metric: Revenue Per Occupied Room. It is basically just the
Average Daily Rate (ADR) of the hotel. So RevPAR = RevPOR * Occupancy Rate.
5. Do you think RevPAR and RevPOR are useful metrics? What are their
flaws?
They’re useful at a high-level to see how much potential revenue each room in a
hotel has… but the problem is that they exclude other sources of revenue, such
as Food & Beverages, Parking, Events, Telecom, and so on.
For a hotel these other revenue sources could be very significant, so it’s a big deal
that RevPAR and RevPOR both exclude them – they effectively understate the
revenue potential.
6. Let’s say I want to acquire and renovate a hotel – how do I determine the
appropriate purchase price?
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The same as with any other type of real estate: the going Cap Rates for similar
properties in the region.
7. And then how would I model the renovation period? What are the key
assumptions to make there?
You generally assume a number of years / months that the renovation lasts,
the % of rooms that will be unavailable, and then how much you can actually
improve the ADR and Occupancy Rate by as a result of the renovation.
Then, during the renovation period itself, you assume no revenue from the
rooms that are under renovation, and after the period ends you assume the
higher ADR and Occupancy Rate for those rooms, which will result in higher
revenue.
8. With the renovation period in place, I now have a lower IRR. How is that
possible? Shouldn’t a renovation always boost returns?
Not necessarily. If the renovation doesn’t boost the ADR and/or Occupancy Rate
by enough (i.e. it doesn’t make the hotel much more attractive to potential
customers), the IRR could easily fall. Just like everything else in finance, it’s all a
matter of tweaking the numbers and seeing what works.
Sometimes the numbers make a renovation make sense, and sometimes the cost
of the renovation is prohibitively high for the improvements that it gets you.
A few things make it attractive: for one, there are many ancillary sources of
revenue, more so than what you would see for an apartment or office complex.
Also, hotels themselves can build up “brand names” (e.g. the Ritz Carlton) and
command premium prices more than other properties.
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The major downside to hotels is that revenue is far less predictable because
most customers are short-term and there are no multi-year leases. Hotels also
tend to be affected much more severely by economic downturns.
10. Do you think a hotel would be valued at a higher or lower Cap Rate than
an apartment complex?
Generally, hotels will be valued at higher Cap Rates, meaning they’re less
valuable, and apartment and office complexes will be valued at lower Cap Rates.
That happens because revenue is much more stable and predictable with offices
and apartments since they use 1-year or multi-year leases.
Yes, some hotels make a lot of money and are very profitable, but on the whole
they are also more susceptible to economic downturns and client turnover.
Typically you would base all the calculations on the Number of Units in the
complex rather than the square feet or square meters. For example, you might
link rent, operating expenses, and even the required parking units to the units in
the complex rather than the size.
12. How is a Single Net Lease (N) different from a Double Net Lease (NN) or
Triple Net Lease (NNN)?
Here’s a chart that shows you how these leases differ from each other:
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13. Which lease types are the most common for different properties?
Triple Net Leases (NNN) are the most common in office and retail complexes –
for residential property it’s highly unusual for the tenant to pay for anything
aside from rent and some utilities. That describes a Gross Lease (not shown on
the chart above, but basically the tenant just pays Rent).
14. I’m looking at an acquisition of an office complex with NNN leases, and
the press release only gives the approximate rental income. How can I estimate
the Net Operating Income based on its rental income?
Trick question: for Triple Net Leases, Net Rental Income is the same as Net
Operating Income, so that number in the press release also describes the
property’s NOI. If the tenant pays for both operating expenses and property
taxes, you have nothing major to pay for yourself.
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Individual properties and REITs are intimately linked, but hardly anyone
explains how they’re actually linked.
And if you want to understand one or the other, you’ll need to understand both:
many properties are owned by REITs, and when you analyze a REIT you’re
really analyzing its underlying properties.
These questions are not terribly likely to come up in interviews, but they will
make it easier to answer related questions on one or the other.
Usually you would assume a rental income growth rate and an NOI margin for
Same-Store Properties – they do not change by much, so you usually assume that
rent can be raised by a certain percentage each year, and that margins will stay in
the same range.
You could still use a Cap Rate instead, but it’s often easier to think of revenue
and NOI using the variables above since the Assets are not changing much in
this segment.
2. How can you estimate Rental Revenue and NOI from Development /
Redevelopment and Acquired Properties?
You assume a Cap Rate and NOI margin for each of these segments, assume a
certain amount of spending each year on these segments, and then track the total
Assets in each segment over time. Over the years, you may also re-classify some
of these Assets to the Same-Store segment as they become “stabilized.”
You need to track the Assets rather than just revenue and NOI because the
Assets in these categories are changing frequently, and everything is determined
by your effective yield on those Assets.
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3. How can you move from the value of disposed properties to the
Discontinued Operations section on a REIT’s financial statements?
Using all these, you can calculate Income from Discontinued Operations: Rental
Income – Operating Expenses – Property Taxes – Interest – Depreciation.
4. How do you calculate NOI for the entire REIT on its Income Statement?
You add up the Rental Income and Operating Expenses and Property Taxes for
Same-Store Properties, Development & Redevelopment Properties, and Acquired
Properties, and then subtract Rental Income and Expenses from Dispositions
(since those are reflected under Discontinued Operations on the IS now).
NOTE: If you’ve been tracking the Assets properly for all these segments and
assuming that Disposed Properties directly reduce the Assets for one or more
segments, you may not need to subtract Rental Income and Expenses from
Dispositions; the Asset reduction already accounts for that.
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First, you must add all Net Real Estate Additions to Land, Buildings, and
FF&E on the REIT’s Balance Sheet.
Second, you must subtract Depreciation from both Continuing and
Discontinued Operations from the Accumulated Depreciation number.
Third, you have to take into account changes to items like Construction in
Progress, Land Held for Development, and Real Estate Assets Held for
Sale.
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These questions are all more advanced than anything in the “High-Level”
section.
REIT accounting is not tremendously difficult, but there are quite a few points to
be aware of, especially if you have some experience with real estate or you’re
interviewing with a group that’s known to be tough with technical questions.
Most of these differences come from the fact that REITs must issue 90% of their
taxable income as Dividends. As a result of that, they have little cash available to
finance their operations:
They are much more highly leveraged than normal companies; it’s not
uncommon for Debt to comprise half or more of a REIT’s Equity value.
They frequently issue Debt and Equity simply to continue acquiring,
developing, and renovating properties.
In addition, Noncontrolling Interests, Equity Interests, and Joint Ventures
are extremely common because of capital constraints; REITs often join
forces to accomplish their goals.
We went over some of these in the Overview section at the top of this guide –
more detail now:
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These refer to “OP Units” (Operating Partnership Units), which relate to the
UPREIT vs. DownREIT structure. These represent the option to purchase the
remaining interest in those structures – so if REIT management owns 90% of these
OP Units, the Redeemable Noncontrolling Interests might represent the right to
purchase the remaining 10%.
On the statements, you subtract redemptions (the REIT has spent money to
acquire these units) in Cash Flow from Financing, and also subtract the
redemptions from the Redeemable Noncontrolling Interests line item on the
Liabilities side each year.
You should either 1) Assume share dilution from the OP Units or 2) Add the
Redeemable Noncontrolling Interests and count them as Debt when calculating
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Enterprise Value, but not both – it’s similar to the treatment for Convertible
Bonds.
5. Let’s say that a REIT disposes of an Asset for $100. Its Book Value was $80,
the revenue generated by the Asset was $8, the NOI generated by the Asset
was $4, and Depreciation was $2.
How does this sale flow through the statements? Assume no Gain or Loss on
the sale of land, only on the building itself.
Asset sale net proceeds are $100, and the Gain on the sale of the Assets is $20.
Rental income is $8, and operating expenses and property taxes are $4 and
Depreciation was $2, so Income from Discontinued Operations on the Income
Statement is $2.
On the CFS, Net Income is up by $22, but we must subtract the Gain of $20
because it is already accounted for under CFI, so CFO is up by $2. Under Cash
Flow from Investing, we record the $100 sale of Assets, so cash flow is up by $102
and cash is up by $102 at the bottom.
On the BS, cash is up by $102 but Gross Real Estate Assets are down by $80, so
overall the Assets side is up by $22. The other side is also up by $22 because Net
Income was $22 higher, so both sides balance.
These are for land and buildings that are currently being developed and
therefore don’t generate revenue or NOI; Real Estate Assets Held for Sale may
actually generate NOI and revenue, abut typically they’re small and since they’re
about to be sold, you often assume that they do not.
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These Assets are listed as separate items because Gross Real Estate Operating
Assets all generate revenue and NOI, whereas these Assets generate no revenue
or NOI, or at most, minimal revenue and NOI.
You subtract it on the IS because it’s not attributable to the company, so Net
Income is $10 lower. On the CFS, you add it back in the CFO section because if
you own over 50% of a company, you do receive those earnings in cash. So cash
flow and cash at the bottom are unchanged.
On the BS, there are no changes to the Assets side. On the other side,
Noncontrolling Interests under Shareholders’ Equity is up by $10 due to these
earnings, but Retained Earnings is down by $10 because Net Income was $10
lower, so the Balance Sheet balances.
Since you haven’t already reflected these earnings on the statements, you would
ADD them at the bottom of the Income Statement, so Net Income is $10 higher.
But in the CFO section of the Cash Flow Statement, you subtract them out
because you don’t receive the earnings in cash when you own < 50% of a
company, so cash flow and cash at the bottom are unchanged.
On the BS, the “Investments in Equity Interest” line item on the Assets side is $10
higher from this income, and on the other side Retained Earnings is $10 higher
because Net Income was $10 higher, so both sides balance.
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9. For which type of REIT would you MOST likely see an adjustment for the
straight-lining of rent on the Cash Flow Statement: office REITs, apartment
REITs, or hotel REITs?
Office REITs, because tenants often sign multi-year leases. When that happens,
you may “straight-line” the rent and assume that, for example, $5,000 of owed
rent is paid evenly over 5 years. But in reality, rather than getting $1,000 in each
year you may receive $800 in year 1, $900 in year 2, $1,000 in year 3, $1,100 in
year 4, and $1,200 in year 5 as the rent escalates each year.
So you will overestimate cash flow, FFO, and AFFO in early years and
underestimate it in later years, which is why the straight-line adjustment for rent
will be a negative in early years and a positive in later years. You don’t see this as
much for apartment REITs since leases are usually 1 year or less, and you don’t
see it at all for hotel REITs since hotel stays are even shorter-term.
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You’re most likely to get questions on REIT-specific metrics such as FFO and
AFFO and REIT-specific methodologies such as the Net Asset Value (NAV)
model here.
You don’t necessarily need to know all the nuances, but you should be familiar
with the trade-offs of these metrics and methodologies, as well as why we use
them when analyzing REITs.
NOTE: We’ve already covered some of the most important points on Valuation
in the “High-Level” section at the top of this guide. So we are going to skip over
the basic definitions of FFO and AFFO here and focus on more advanced topics.
1. Why is Funds from Operations (FFO) superior to Free Cash Flow for REITs?
Trick question. FFO should not be compared to Free Cash Flow because they’re
measuring different things – FFO is intended to be a replacement for Net Income
for REITs, and is not necessarily close to the REIT’s true cash flow.
Remember that the massive Depreciation charges as well as Gains and Losses
create a misleading Net Income number, and that is what you are adjusting for
when calculating Funds from Operations.
2. What are the advantages of AFFO over FFO? What are the disadvantages?
The main advantage of AFFO is that it’s closer to the company’s true “cash flow”
because it reflects the impact of Maintenance CapEx. Many analysts believe that
AFFO more accurately represents how much cash flow a REIT generates on a
recurring basis.
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The main disadvantage is that definitions for AFFO tend to be inconsistent, and
different REITs may include very different items in the AFFO number. So you
really have to scrutinize the AFFO number closely when you see it listed in a
company’s filings.
Another disadvantage is that AFFO still does not truly represent recurring cash
flow, because it excludes CapEx related to acquisitions,
development/redevelopment, and dispositions.
You could argue that those are “optional,” but the revenue and NOI from them
are real – so is it really accurate to leave them out altogether?
The office REIT, because multi-year leases with office properties create
differences between cash rental income and rental income recognized on the
financial statements. Remember that AFFRO includes that straight-lining of rent
adjustment.
4. Do you think a hotel REIT or an office REIT would trade at a higher FFO
multiple?
As usual, many factors come into play, such as geography, clientele, property
margins, and so on.
But generally, office REITs have superior business models because clients sign
multi-year leases in advance, which locks in recurring, predictable revenue for
years to come, so they are valued more highly.
Remember that higher valuation = higher FFO or AFFO multiple, but lower Cap
Rate.
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5. REITs are Balance Sheet-centric – can’t we therefore use Book Value and P /
BV multiples to value them?
No, because Accumulated Depreciation is massive for REITs and it makes Book
Value not as meaningful. Also, the fair market values of Real Estate Assets may
be significantly higher or lower than the Balance Sheet values because Real Estate
Assets are recorded at historical cost.
Book Value is meaningful for commercial banks because their Balance Sheets are
marked-to-market and because they have minimal Depreciation.
First off, note that this statement is only true if you’re referring to a Levered DCF
analysis, i.e. you take into account Interest Expense and Mandatory Debt
Repayments when calculating Free Cash Flow (effectively making it Free Cash
Flow to Equity).
This happens because the Dividends issued by a REIT are usually very close to
its “Free Cash Flow” – after all, the REIT is required to pay out most of its taxable
income in the form of Dividends… which means that it’s also giving up much of
its cash flow in the form of Dividends.
7. What are the advantages of a Net Asset Value (NAV) model over a DCF or
DDM for a REIT? What are the disadvantages?
The disadvantage is that assigning Cap Rates is very, very difficult and can be
close to impossible to do accurately if you don’t have good data.
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Just like using FFO or AFFO multiples to value a REIT, the NAV model is very
dependent on the data you have available… but unlike with FFO or AFFO
multiples, this data is much more difficult to locate.
1. In Step 1, you assign and apply a Cap Rate to each segment of the REIT’s
12-month forward NOI. For example, you could apply a different Cap
Rate to NOI from 100% Owned Properties, JV Properties, and
Management Fees. Then you add up all these values and the total
represents the value of the REIT’s Gross Real Estate Operating Assets.
2. In Step 2, you add up all the other Assets of the REIT, adjusting them
where necessary; you might, for example, assume a slight premium for
Construction in Progress if it will start contributing revenue soon.
3. In Step3, you adjust and subtract the REIT’s Liabilities. You rarely make
too many major adjustments here unless the fair market value of Debt is
significantly different from its Book Value.
4. In Step 4, you subtracted the Adjusted Liability Value from the Adjusted
Asset Value to get the Net Asset Value of the REIT. Then you can divide
that by the shares outstanding to get NAV Per Share, which you can
compare to its current stock price.
The underlying idea with the NAV model is that local, private markets are often
more efficient and move more quickly with real estate.
So if prevailing Cap Rates suddenly rise or fall, you’ll see that right away with
sales of individual properties, but the share price of the REIT itself may lag that
movement, which results in a premium or discount to the NAV Per Share.
The analysis itself is not complicated – the trickiest part is picking the right Cap
Rates and also dividing NOI into the right segments in the first place.
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9. Let’s say that a REIT has NOI from non-rental-income sources such as
property management fees. Would you value that NOI at a higher lower Cap
Rate (Yield) than its normal rental NOI?
You generally use a higher Cap Rate for these non-rental-income sources,
meaning that they are less highly valued. The rationale is that this type of
revenue is easily cancellable and is not as stable or predictable as rental income
from 1-year or multi-year leases.
10. Let’s say that the implied Cap Rate of a REIT (based on the assumption that
Equity Value = Assets – Liabilities and working backward to get the implied
Gross Real Estate Operating Asset Value) is higher than its actual Cap Rate
(based on the Balance Sheet value of Gross Real Estate Operating Assets).
What does that mean?
It means that the REIT is trading at a higher value than what its properties are
worth according to its Balance Sheet – usually there is some reason for that, such
as better-than-average earnings growth, more predictable revenue, a more
appealing geography or tenant base than other REITs, and so on.
11. Why would one REIT have a higher NAV Per Share than a similar REIT in
the same geography?
There could be many reasons – you have to look at their revenue, FFO, and
AFFO growth rates and margins, and also factors like the dividend payout ratio
and dividend yields.
The tenant base may be very different for the two REITs, and they may focus on
different property types even if they’re in the same geography. Some property
types also tend to be more highly valued than others.
All of those could make a difference when using the Net Asset Value model.
There is rarely a simple answer for valuation differences unless it really is
something blindingly obvious (e.g. one REIT is growing at 20% and the other is
growing at 1%).
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12. How would you select a set of public comps or precedent transactions
when valuing a REIT?
Rather than selecting the set based on metrics like revenue or EBITDA, you
would select them based on Real Estate Assets, NOI, FFO, AFFO, or something
else real estate-specific.
Geographical focus is also important, as are the property types; it wouldn’t make
much sense to compare a UK healthcare REIT to an office REIT on the west coast
of the US.
13. What are the most common add-backs when calculating FFO and AFFO for
REITs?
You don’t have to worry about these quite as much with REITs, because all
REITs actually list their FFO calculations explicitly in their filings. But a few
points:
1. You should use Net Income to Common as the starting point (i.e. make
sure you subtract Preferred Stock Dividends before calculating FFO or
AFFO).
2. In AFFO, you may see adjustments for Stock-Based Compensation,
Amortization of Financing Fees, Impairment Charges, the Gain / (Loss) on
the Sale of Land, and the Early Retirement of Debt. All of those are either
non-cash or arguably non-recurring.
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