www.HomeGunsmith.com Static Archive http://www.homegunsmith.com/archive/T26274.

html

www.HomeGunsmith.com Archive
Archive Date: Sep. 15 2020, 04:00 ET
This is an archive! Click here to go to the live site.

Home > Main Forums > Hall of Freedom > Smg - semi-auto version (as to now), For 7,62x39mm cases and nailgun cartdges
Click here to go to this topic on the "live" site.
Posted: Dec. 20 2010, 20:16 ET

Hello my Dear Friends !

First of all I want to introduce myself to you since I am a newbie here. My english I probably not perfect (so sorry for
mistakes). I live in one of the poscommunist countries in the cental Europe :P I hope you help me to make my dreams real.
Getting here a gun legally or NOT is almost IMPOSSIBLE!

Geting here one's hands on ammo is not an easy task so that in following projects as in others I favour to use non-commercial
cartridges, almost always using a nailgun round put into any type of case an any improvised cartridge. It is not a perfect
method but accessible and very cheap!

Here is my project. Semi-auto pistol (firstly projected as full auto smg). It fires yellow marked rimfire 6,8mm nailgun
cartidges put into a drilled out case from ak-47 case. Te bullet is made either from zinc or brass alloy (almost always is made
form a 8mm brass rod ). Each other must weigh about 4 grams in order the gun works as it has to.

As to now the weapon has only smoothbore barell (I'm personally working on making the threaded barrel by acid etching or
maybe a simple barrel threading machine).

The bottom of the AK case is drilled out on a 'columned driller' (a bit time consuming). Becouse of the type of vase used, it
accepts regular ak47/akm 30-rounds mags or 40-rounds mags for RPKS rifles and their clones. The mags and the sights are
the only commercially manufactured items here - the rest I built from scratch only and a few parts like the bolt, was
manufactured for order by qualified metalworker. The plates of the trigger-grip is from PPSH smg.

The gun has got much much less jams than my other (earlier) projects - which were accessible on youtube and probably even
discussed here some time ago

I'm going to re-project the gun (mainly the bolt) in order to make it fire full auto fire using much stronger (than the present
one) red or black marked nailgun cartridge. I suppose that with the "red-markeds" it can achieve the power of 9mm Luger,
and with "black-markeds" - even the power of 7.62x25mmTT round. The reds I find to be much more optimal for the gun
since it allows to avoid fast wearing-off the gun or overloading what can cause any damages to the thing.

If this project will work after changes it is really worth the manufacture, simply becouse the COST, and accessibility to
ammo ! This is invualuable aspect probably, espacially here where I live The new version has to have better red-dot
sights mounted on the picatinny rail, a threaded-out barrel for silencer or flames hider (taken fro any factory made one -
preferably ak-74 or M4 ) and a laser sights too, better buttstock, and a front grip muontes on the barrel ;)

I'm awaiting for your opinion and suggestions ;)

Enjoy watching the photos ;)

By minigun5

By minigun5

By minigun5

By minigun5

第 1 頁，共 19 頁 2020/9/17 下午 07:50

www.HomeGunsmith.com Static Archive http://www.homegunsmith.com/archive/T26274.html

By minigun5

By minigun5

By minigun5

By minigun5

By minigun5

By minigun5

Thanks in advance for sooner opinions and suggestions (especially as to the re-projecting the gun to shoot fully auto and with
no or as minimal jams as possible )!

And best regards for all of you ;)

Minigun.
Posted: Dec. 20 2010, 20:35 ET

Another photos :

By minigun5 at 2010-12-13

By minigun5 at 2010-12-13

By minigun5 at 2010-12-13
Posted: Dec. 20 2010, 20:47 ET

Another photos :

By minigun5

By minigun5

By minigun5
Posted: Dec. 21 2010, 12:54 ET

Sweet build. Though I would advice against fullauto.

I'd suspect that you might be focusofdarkness from youtube?

Your idea for using ak mags and drilled out 7.62x39 rounds is quite ingenious.

第 2 頁，共 19 頁 2020/9/17 下午 07:50

www.HomeGunsmith.com Static Archive http://www.homegunsmith.com/archive/T26274.html

Posted: Dec. 22 2010, 15:23 ET

Wow, Very good ideas there Minigun5! I have been thinking of using the .22 'acorn' blanks in the same way as you use the
nailgun ones, but then for a cal 177 airgun bullet/barrel and turning the cases on a lathe and gluing the blanks in. Seeing you
do this is getting my thinking back to that idea. I really like the simplicity of the design - looks like something I could
actually build myself...

Any chance you could post some blueprints/drawings of your SMG and internals with dimensions etc..?

Also, in what kind of shop do you buy the nailgun blanks and what do they cost?

I take it the blanks are the only thing propelling the bullet, or are you adding any extra to the case as well?

SB
Posted: Dec. 23 2010, 09:13 ET

I have seen HILTI blanks for sale at tool rental shops and hardware stores. Look for the "Hilti ProShop" sign.

The HILTI blanks them selfs have quite some power, so I'd suspect that there is no powder in the modified 7.62x39 rounds.

As for the price I bought 100 "red" blanks for 20eur at a tool rental place near me.
But I have seen them for 15e for a box of 100 blanks at a hardware store.
The price was the same regardless of power. The "black" ones are rumored to be on par with 9mm in power, but I find that
hard to belive.
Deduct 23% from the price as sales tax and consider euros dollars and you mostlikely have the US price. (20e - 4.6e = 15.4e
=>15.4usd)
Posted: Dec. 23 2010, 17:13 ET

The photos are HUGE. Very slick idea. But I'm wondering, is this project is legal where you are, whether semi-auto, or full-
auto?
Posted: Dec. 23 2010, 21:22 ET

The photos are so large and numerous that they crash my browser!

If I hit stop, I can see the top several inches of each picture, but any more makes it crash.
Posted: Dec. 28 2010, 20:28 ET

Quote
I'd suspect that you might be focusofdarkness from youtube?

Right!

Quote
Any chance you could post some blueprints/drawings of your SMG and internals with dimensions etc..?

Yes, you can rely on me. When I build the improved full auto version then I think to upload the drawings here
and whatever be able anf you want to ;) .

Also, I expect some help from you as to my future more advanced projects. It relates ecpecially to those of you who leave in
the US and simply posses specified models of guns and so can give me here DETAILED dimensions and drawnings of the
main parts of these guns (if I failed to find them somewhere else): frame, barrel and the slide are of course the most
important ones. The model I think to build maybe for a year or so is the Sig Sauer P228 (after this SMG).

Quote
I take it the blanks are the only thing propelling the bullet, or are you adding any extra to the case as well?

第 3 頁，共 19 頁 2020/9/17 下午 07:50

www.HomeGunsmith.com Static Archive http://www.homegunsmith.com/archive/T26274.html

I would be probably not a wise idea to add any more powder to the nailgun cartridges as they contains very fast and
powerfull nitroglicerin based gundpowder! It complicates a bit projects like this becouse you need to leave in the case some
space between the cartridge and the bullet what influences bad on the ballistics but lack of the free space might mean over
pressure for the case and even the gun.

Quote
Also, in what kind of shop do you buy the nailgun blanks and what do they cost?
The cost in my country is about 6$ for the Czech Sellier & Bellot 100 rounds package. I buy it on the net (something like
local e-bay equivalent). The price is very low as you see. It can differ as to the marking of the cartridges but only a bit. The
original "Hilti" cardridges are much more expensive as they have steel cases only covered by brass so the are much stronger.

Quote
The "black" ones are rumored to be on par with 9mm in power, but I find that hard to belive.

They consist much less but insted much stronger and faster powder load then in 9mm Luger what is a disadvantage here. The
power of the fired round depends also on the bullet weight and the barrel length. It is belies that the black marked ones may
achieve even the TT's pistol round power!

Quote
But I'm wondering, is this project is legal where you are, whether semi-auto, or full-auto?

OMG, here where I live you don't have even to dream to posses something like this neither LEGALLY or NOT (as I wrote in
the firs post!). You have to get the gun licence for even the shitty zinc-aluminium alloy made blanks or (so called) "gas" guns
here what it also very expensive and difficult!

Quote
The photos are HUGE. Very slick idea

Quote
The photos are so large and numerous that they crash my browser!

If I hit stop, I can see the top several inches of each picture, but any more makes it crash.

Sorry, but it is an error and a result of lacking the editing option. It's a very GOOD IDEA to choose Opera browser to view
this thread and fit to the width of the screen as I do. I don't get a point why the pictures becomes so large after uploading
theme here
Posted: Dec. 29 2010, 16:09 ET

the pics are too large and not slowing my browser

but looks like i nice build
but i got to worn you nail gun cartridges are dangerous if not modified or used in a proper way + they are a non for autos or
semis cause they leave behind allot of trash in the chamber and barrel
so practically your gun will shoot just few rounds before it get jammed
i used power tools cartridges before in some projects of mine , you may say i am satisfied about my plinkers but not with the
cartridge , it is a mechanical failure
not to mention about the legal side,be careful with what you are doing
it is a big lose to put a stop for your dream just in jail
keep the pics coming,never stop thinking and designing new stuff,you will get somewhere someday

oh one thing more , ill be very happy too if you post drawings of your gun
i just love it,the pics you posted are not opening fully so i cannot see the hole thing
best regards
aoolf
Posted: Dec. 29 2010, 21:15 ET

Quote

第 4 頁，共 19 頁 2020/9/17 下午 07:50

www.HomeGunsmith.com Static Archive http://www.homegunsmith.com/archive/T26274.html

the pics are too large and not slowing my browser

I can't get a point why they are so large.

Quote
they are a non for autos or semis cause they leave behind allot of trash in the chamber and barrel
so practically your gun will shoot just few rounds before it get jammed
I have succeeded yet in building an smg with very similare concept and it didn't jam ;) Maybe it depends on the mark of the
nailgun ammo or maybe the dirtiness is left inside the ak case?

Quote
oh one thing more , ill be very happy too if you post drawings of your gun
i just love it,the pics you posted are not opening fully so i cannot see the hole thing
Again - I advice you to USE the OPERA BROWSER!

Quote
not to mention about the legal side,be careful with what you are doing
it is a big lose to put a stop for your dream just in jail
The laws are very gun unfriendly and the risk concenrned with possesing and manufacturing is something you MUST accept
if you really want to to have a gun and love it since there is no other option. If you can't accept it then better don't even
dream about guns. Unfortunately, not to everyone is given to live in US
Posted: Jan. 28 2011, 08:16 ET

do you live in Hungary?

Posted: Feb. 1 2011, 13:17 ET

Gotta edit those pic dude

Posted: Feb. 24 2011, 10:37 ET

Hello minigun, I am impressed with your research. I have posted your old vids here previously. Best regards.
Posted: Feb. 24 2011, 12:59 ET

Creative design ideas.

Pictures really are too big. The large file size will take forever to load for many readers/users/members.

I personally would not break the local gun laws.

Finest regards,

troy
Posted: Feb. 24 2011, 13:00 ET

Me too, I just admire his work especially the clever usage of Hilti blanks as a ammunition resource. In deed very clever!

Keep on going with your work and tell us about it.

Posted: Feb. 24 2011, 20:50 ET

I always enjoy projects like these, really minimalist - meaning you've done a nice job with what you have on hand.

Well done!
Posted: Mar. 1 2011, 11:32 ET

How can anyone enjoy looking at those pictures, they

第 5 頁，共 19 頁 2020/9/17 下午 07:50

www.HomeGunsmith.com Static Archive http://www.homegunsmith.com/archive/T26274.html

give me a headache.
Posted: Mar. 1 2011, 15:13 ET

hold control + Alt and scroll the wheel on your mouse. in most cases it will zoom out of the browse, shrinking the text and
pictures...makes seeing the pics a lil easier
Posted: Mar. 9 2011, 07:58 ET

Many of you ask about the drawnings and dimensions but when I asked about making drawnings and dimensions of
handguns like SIG p228 or Makarov , becouse there is nothing except photos on the net, then NOBODY HELPS ME !
Really sad
Posted: Mar. 9 2011, 11:41 ET

Quote (minigun @ Mar. 09 2011,07:58)

Many of you ask about the drawnings and dimensions but when I asked about making drawnings and dimensions of
handguns like SIG p228 or Makarov , becouse there is nothing except photos on the net, then NOBODY HELPS ME !

Really sad

I have no idea where you can get dimensions. But here is a blowup of the P228, which you could find easily enough
yourself. http://stevespages.com/ipb-sig-228.html
Posted: Jun. 25 2011, 10:29 ET

minigun, this thing is cool and now, easier to see -

第 6 頁，共 19 頁 2020/9/17 下午 07:50

www.HomeGunsmith.com Static Archive http://www.homegunsmith.com/archive/T26274.html

第 7 頁，共 19 頁 2020/9/17 下午 07:50

www.HomeGunsmith.com Static Archive http://www.homegunsmith.com/archive/T26274.html

第 8 頁，共 19 頁 2020/9/17 下午 07:50

www.HomeGunsmith.com Static Archive http://www.homegunsmith.com/archive/T26274.html

Posted: Jun. 25 2011, 10:30 ET

第 9 頁，共 19 頁 2020/9/17 下午 07:50

www.HomeGunsmith.com Static Archive http://www.homegunsmith.com/archive/T26274.html

第 10 頁，共 19 頁 2020/9/17 下午 07:50

www.HomeGunsmith.com Static Archive http://www.homegunsmith.com/archive/T26274.html

第 11 頁，共 19 頁 2020/9/17 下午 07:50

www.HomeGunsmith.com Static Archive http://www.homegunsmith.com/archive/T26274.html

第 12 頁，共 19 頁 2020/9/17 下午 07:50

www.HomeGunsmith.com Static Archive http://www.homegunsmith.com/archive/T26274.html

Posted: Jun. 25 2011, 10:31 ET

第 13 頁，共 19 頁 2020/9/17 下午 07:50

www.HomeGunsmith.com Static Archive http://www.homegunsmith.com/archive/T26274.html

第 14 頁，共 19 頁 2020/9/17 下午 07:50

www.HomeGunsmith.com Static Archive http://www.homegunsmith.com/archive/T26274.html

第 15 頁，共 19 頁 2020/9/17 下午 07:50

www.HomeGunsmith.com Static Archive http://www.homegunsmith.com/archive/T26274.html

Posted: Aug. 3 2011, 19:49 ET

Minigun, here's something I have. The P228 "prints" appear to be just the frame, but that is a start and the makarov.zip is just
my makarov folder. It has a scan of the original russian service manual that has quite a few dimensions in mm. It also
includes prints for a russian improvised makarov inspired pistol.

P228: http://www.multiupload.com/TO5B1EJE20

Makarov: http://www.multiupload.com/MJRCW7XTGE
Posted: Sep. 23 2011, 21:12 ET

Minigun, I thought Dlask arms was making 80 percent castings for the Sig. I have not checked with them in quite a while but
they make good products, in Canada though.
Posted: Sep. 23 2011, 21:17 ET

Sorry Minigun, looks like they stopped making them a long time ago.
Posted: Sep. 26 2011, 23:48 ET

I have seen this person before on other forums and I don't remember for sure but I think it was under a different name than
"minigun" .
I am have been an 07/02 since 86 and a law enforcement armorer for much longer .
Look closely at the photographs, the receiver is made of wood (look at the grain) . Pay close attention to the screws in the
photographs . They are all wood screws .
I have no problem with those that enjoy shooting and guns but I believe being deceptive is wrong .
Posted: Sep. 27 2011, 15:15 ET

第 16 頁，共 19 頁 2020/9/17 下午 07:50

www.HomeGunsmith.com Static Archive http://www.homegunsmith.com/archive/T26274.html

Woah! Good eye, hagar!

Posted: Sep. 27 2011, 17:44 ET

I did forget to add it is fairly nice work though .

Posted: Sep. 28 2011, 14:22 ET

There is a video on youtube where he is firing his "wooden" SMG.

Posted: Sep. 29 2011, 12:26 ET

Quote (Bertholdus @ Sep. 28 2011,11:22)

There is a video on youtube where he is firing his "wooden" SMG.

Is there really any reason why a "wooden" open-bolt design couldn't work? It might wear pretty quickly if some of the
critical friction surfaces were not bushed with metal, but after all, a wooden "receiver" could probably be made just as strong
(or stronger) than a bent sheet metal flat.

Nearly all the pressure in an open-bolt blow-back design is supposed to be contained within the barrel, chamber, and
absorbed by the recoiling bolt mass, right?

That said, I wouldn't want to be testing it with a too-light bolt, though...

Posted: Sep. 29 2011, 13:18 ET

wooden receiver sounds fine til you get an out of battery.

Posted: Sep. 29 2011, 13:45 ET

would certainly give new meaning to digging out splinters....

Posted: Sep. 29 2011, 14:03 ET

Hi there,

first of all miniguns SMG is the real McCoy and not a fake.

IRC on weaponeer a guy made an AR lower receiver out of wood and it worked well. If the locking mechanism of the gun
is well constructed like on AK type rifles there will be no out of battery firing.

Have fun!
Posted: Nov. 11 2011, 09:06 ET

Quote (hagar @ Sep. 26 2011,18:48)

Look closely at the photographs, the receiver is made of wood (look at the grain) . Pay close attention to the screws in
the photographs . They are all wood screws .

How can you tell they are wood screws without seeing the threads? What I think you are seeing as wood grain I see as
globby, brush-applied paint. Look at his 9mm pistol and you can see the same "artistry".
Posted: Nov. 11 2011, 15:05 ET

I like Minigun's work wood or not!

Posted: Nov. 23 2011, 23:09 ET

Quote (red_metallic @ Nov. 11 2011,07:06)

第 17 頁，共 19 頁 2020/9/17 下午 07:50

www.HomeGunsmith.com Static Archive http://www.homegunsmith.com/archive/T26274.html

Quote (hagar @ Sep. 26 2011,18:48)

Look closely at the photographs, the receiver is made of wood (look at the grain) . Pay close attention to the
screws in the photographs . They are all wood screws .

How can you tell they are wood screws without seeing the threads? What I think you are seeing as wood grain I see as
globby, brush-applied paint. Look at his 9mm pistol and you can see the same "artistry".

Screws designed for wood or metal are completely different, even in the exterior appearance .
Posted: Nov. 23 2011, 23:13 ET

Quote (MicroGunWorks @ Sep. 29 2011,10:26)

Quote (Bertholdus @ Sep. 28 2011,11:22)
There is a video on youtube where he is firing his "wooden" SMG.

Is there really any reason why a "wooden" open-bolt design couldn't work? It might wear pretty quickly if some of the
critical friction surfaces were not bushed with metal, but after all, a wooden "receiver" could probably be made just as
strong (or stronger) than a bent sheet metal flat.

Nearly all the pressure in an open-bolt blow-back design is supposed to be contained within the barrel, chamber, and
absorbed by the recoiling bolt mass, right?

That said, I wouldn't want to be testing it with a too-light bolt, though...

I was not able to locate the video on "youtube" . Would you please post a link as I would really like to see it wood or not.
Posted: May 18 2012, 08:38 ET

I am perfectly honest with you and can tell my guns are not toys and the receivers have 100% all steel.

This model is planned to be revised in the future. Now is only semi and barrel is smooth (improvised). The future version has
to be heat treated, full auto mode, rifled barrel (out of a .303 British blank - 7,94mm in diameter), with foregrip and better
finished. The bullets will be made out of a brass rod on a lathe
Posted: May 18 2012, 15:38 ET

I haven't got any videos on YT. The wood-like apperance is caused by shitty paint. The receiver is all steel.
Posted: Sep. 17 2012, 11:24 ET

Do you think you could make something like this in .401 Winchester Self Loading?
Posted: Feb. 8 2013, 08:39 ET

@Marmaloon - the idea of this concept was to build a firearm (full/semi SMG) that shoots EASILY ACCESSIBLE and
cheap homemade ammo (possibly effective). I don't live in US becuose if I live there I wouldn't have to play around how to
obtain a gun(s) - I would simply BUY the guns (preferebly HUGE AMOUNT of guns and hundreds of thousands rounds of
ammo! Here where I live I hardly obtain the ammo that I have and just ignore such egzotic rounds (surely I would ignore
them even living in US since they are not correct from the strategical and logistical point of view!;)) I would never build any
SMG for other rounds than 9x19 (.45acp in extreme cases) except if the idea is cheap and available for everyone ammo.

Neverthless this project seems to be nothing worth to waste time on ;/ I bought a barrel for .303 British for it. It had to fit
Homemade bullets (~8mm diameter which had to fit a used 7,62x39mm steel case) had to fit to the bore of this barrel. It
seems to be failed. It probably needs to use bullets from any original caliber or custom bullets made on a lathe All of that
makes the entire concept doubtful to me.
Posted: Apr. 26 2013, 08:21 ET

minigun, you were able to get rimfire nailgun charges to fire reliably with a centerfire strike?

第 18 頁，共 19 頁 2020/9/17 下午 07:50

www.HomeGunsmith.com Static Archive http://www.homegunsmith.com/archive/T26274.html

Posted: Apr. 26 2013, 15:05 ET

I saw some blank adapters made up for shooting 22cal blanks in a 12 ga shot gun. The fellow who made them just made
solid steel dummy shells with an off center chambered smooth bore to allow the firing pin to hit the rim of the blank, it
worked. I would have just used primers in shot shells with no powder or wad. Those are loud enough to train a pup not to
jump or cower at the shot. Extraction of the adapter was by the standard shotgun extractor. Removal of the fired blank was
by a piece of 3/16 brass rod with a drawer pull (knob) screwed to the end of it.

Some dog trainers just use a starter pistol, this guy wanted his dogs to get used to seeing a shotgun that goes bang!

第 19 頁，共 19 頁 2020/9/17 下午 07:50