JoergenB

Welcome!

Hello, JoergenB, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

• The five pillars of Wikipedia
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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome! 

I see you're taking an interest in operations, an area where we could use some help. Thanks! Melchoir 16:35, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

I don't have any experience with using these talk pages, so I don't know if I'm supposed to answer your question to me by editing my own talk page or yours. If you think the subscripts are hard to read, you could change them to upper case. I just re-read your other suggestion. Are you wanting to re-index the sequences from 1 to k, instead of 0 to k-1? If so, I would prefer that you not. Having had a class from Dijkstra, I am a firm believer in the benefits of counting from zero, one of them being that the upper bound on the index is also the length of the sequence.NoJoy 16:32, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Reference desk

No problem, Joergen. Indeed, we probably got into an "edit conflict" (editing the same page at the same time). See Help:Edit conflict for a detailed description of the issue. Conscious 15:56, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Re: Your user logo

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia!

There's no etiquette about how to write names when mentioning other Wikipedians as far as I know. My user name is plainly "Kieff", and I just used a stylized version in my signature to break the boredom and to make it stand-out from normal wiki links. If you want a suggestion, when you talk about someone else, just stick to the actual, non-formatted username of the person (the username that you see in the user page, example User:Kieff or User:JoergenB - of course, you'll drop the "User:"). That's what I do, it keeps things simpler. Besides, a lot of people are using absurdly fancy signatures nowdays, so you'll just save yourself from all the effort to deal with that crap. :P

Anyway, the reason why I "fixed" your edit was to make a clearer text-flow (no junk formatting in the middle of paragraphs). It keeps things easier to comprehend when editing because the fancy formatting code is kept for the signatures at the end of lines. That way you can safely ignore them. Hope everything is clear, and have fun editing! :) ☢ Ҡi∊ff⌇↯ 19:42, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Template for giving credit?

You wrote: "..and there are some nice templates, which make it very easy to inform the reader of sources from sister Wikipedia, and which you may place under the heading references. " Joergen, can you point me to one of these templates? Thanks, EdJohnston 15:45, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

'... one of these templates' - yes, one I can provide, for translations from German; but I have not been able to find the category to which it should belong:-( I have been looking around at templates for some hour now, and I find it more confusing now than when I started. For your 'one example', look at recently completed translations from German; e.g., at

Herta_Müller#References

where the first line was produced by {{German|Herta Müller|[[July 28]], [[2006]]}}. This is nice enough, I think; but if I don't find the same for all or at least many languages, I'll have to retract my statement.

I've been at wp for less than two months, and I sometimes still find some things fairly confusing. The template namespace is one such thing. JoergenB 16:18, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Reply

I hear you. I have had the same experience with alot of Albanians about the Kosovo article. They cant see that we will never accept calling it Kosova (I will for sure as long as I live). I don't think this is a trend only among Swedes but I can see that in a world like this when we tend to use more English in our native speak and the use of ghetto-dialects (I think of Rinkby-svenska, which I consider a rape on our beutiful languge), people is getting more aware of what they call their land, city, province, etc.

I see that there is a big missunderstanding when some Swedes say Göteborg ans some Gothenburg. As we know Göteborg tends not to call them self Gothenburg anymore officially but the name is very old and well settled among the English speakers, thats why the article is named Gothenburg here. Well that is okey for me but when you use the latin form (for example Dalarna) I think this is going to far (even if I know this is the "proper English" name. Although I have never the intend to destroy any work here on Wikipedia. Österbotten will always be Österbotten but I see that it's best to call it Ostrobothnia (region).

Do you teach at university level? Well I guess they should have said Henrik if it was a Swedish text or? We all know that we use the latin for of the pope, but acctually I heard and interview with the spokes women of the Catholic Church in Sweden after they new pope Benediktus was elected and she said that they give him a Swedish name called Benedikt, just like the did with Johannes Paulus - Johannes Paul. But if they said "John" it would be acctually disgraceful. Best regards - Litany 18:33, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Yes sure, otherwise I always links a page like this: Österbotten.

Aha, I understand. I read history at Uppsala University before, so there is a big chance a teacher one day (for upper secondary school). Now I am in Crotia to attend Zagreb University in learning the Croatian language for one year.

Yes Henrik would be the proper name in Swedish, although I dont think that it's wrong if they would say Henri rather then translate him as Enrique. The mistake in DN and by TT was clearly the "anglification". I think that even more proper in Swedish would referring the late pope as Johan Pål, instead of Johannes Paulus, but now do we use the Latin form of the pope so no deal to argue about the "proper" Swedish name. Hehe

So do you live in Rinkeby or some other suburbs? My origin is also from one of Stockholms suburbs and I grew up with this horrible "dialect" around me in school and etc. But this is my POV. Best regards - Litany 12:37, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Name Conventions

Hello Joergen,

The english version of wikipedia does have a formal policy that "Names of Wikipedia articles should be optimized for readers over editors; and for a general audience over specialists." (see Wikipedia:Naming conventions for more details) so that would be on the english version as having the place names generally in the english with the swedish to follow in brackets, in terms of swedish place names there is the following policy Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Swedish). I think in terms of getting a more expert response, posting your query on the naming convention discussion page might get a better response than I can provide. I hope that this is of some use, if you need anymore help feel free to ask and thanks for pointing out the typo on the geography wikiproject. Good luck :-) AlexD 19:12, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Historical

Certainly. I tag things as historical when I note there is no ongoing discussion; if discussion starts anew, it's a good idea to remove the historical tag (or replace it by {{proposed}}). Note, however, that there may be very few people watching the talk page, so it would probably be a good idea to ask for feedback at e.g. the village pump, WP:CENT, and/or some relevant WikiProject. >Radiant< 22:29, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Hi

Hi, JoerganB. Thanks for the welcome. This is my first attempt at doing anything on wikipedia, but I have done some work on lowering the upper bound of R(3,3,3,3).

I've never seen Ramsey's original paper, and I am not sure exactly what he used the theorem for. I do think that it would be interesting to have a historical section in the wikipedia article with a discussion of the context in formal logic in which he needed to apply the theorem, and how he actually formulated the original theorem(s) in his paper.

--Ramsey2006 08:16, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

I've seen the standard welcome template on peoples' pages. I haven't had time to check it out much, though. I did find a page that tells how to use some TeX notation here, so that should be useful.

Yes, I'm the "K". Here's a link to to an updated version of my unpublished manuscript. (I did notice on some math dept page at your university that you have an interest in Ramsey Theory)

The Ramsey Number R(3,3,3,3) Is No Greater Than 62

I don't actually know much about the history of the subject. I got into it in a rather roundabout manner. There are some small finite symmetric integral relation algebras (which I tend to call the "coloring algebras") whose representations are essentially good edge colorings of complete graphs with some additional existential conditions. The additional conditions essentially say that every possible triangle (except for the monochromatic triangles) must exist off of every edge. The 2 color relation algebra has a single representation, the pentagram. The 3 color relation algebra has exactly 3 representations, the untwisted and twisted colorings on 16 vertices, and another one on 13 vertices. The 4 color relation algebra has a representation on 41 vertices. That may be the only one known. I'm not sure. Fan Chung's good 4-colorings on 50 vertices are NOT representations.

Now that I think of it, it may be open whether the n color relation algebra is representable for every n or not. I'll have to ask a friend of mine about that.

When I started looking at R(3,3,3,3), I had seen the comment in the introduction of Kabfleisch and Stanton in which reference is made to a private communication with Erdös, where he states that a Hungarian Philosopher had succeded in proving that R(3,3,3,3)=66, but that the proof had not been checked by a mathematician. Since it is hard to imagine how such a proof would go without actually constructing a good coloring on 65 vertices, I set about to find the coloring on 65. Had it existed, it would have been another representation of the 4 color relation algebra, since the existential conditions would have been forced to hold simply by virtue of the sheer size of the representation.

I can still remember the day when I suddenly found the color of edge after edge being forced on me, adding an edge every couple of minutes, seemingly converging on unique coloring, when suddenly the whole coloring just evaprated in a sea of contradictions. (I didn't know at the time that Folkman had proved the same thing a couple of decades earlier.)

Later, I ran across a (false) comment in some edition of Berge's book, "Graphs and Hypergraphs", where he says something to the effect that there is no good coloring on 65, but that one does exist on 64. (A quote by the character Scotty on one of the original Star Trek episodes comes to mind here..."Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me".)

Still, the same feeling of converging in on a unique coloring, with the color of edge after edge being forced on me before the entire coloring evaporating into a sea of contradictions has repeated itself several times now. Of course, in hindsight, I can always see why I should have been aware of the contradiction much, much earlier.

I've looked around a little, and did notice some things here that could use some work. The Relation Algebra page needs work, not to mention a complete revamping of notation. The notations used there is almost unreadable. (Enclosing in parentheses to represent boolean negation, for example, which makes it impossible to use parentheses in equations normally.) I also noticed that there is no page for Cylindric Algebras or for Boolean Algebras with Operators.

--Ramsey2006 01:25, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

About a mathematician mindset

Joergen, it was meant as a compliment. Just because I tend to be more impatient and impulsive doesn't mean I can't appreciate a more tempered and rulebound approach to encyclopedic cyber life. As a matter of fact, I'm sometimes quite in awe of that slow, methodical and analytical style of yours. What do mean you think I peaked at your user page??! He, he. I agree there needs to be more structure in order to avoid constant conflicts and bickering, but only as long as it doesn't strangle creativity and make people don't want to contribute because it takes to much work and effort to check out and learn all the different sets of rules and stylesheets in effect. It's a balancing act, for sure. Thanks for working so hard on getting the Scania name conflict settled. I do appreciate it very much. Love, Pia

Discussion of name change of Skåneland

Please see Talk:Skåneland to discuss a possible name change. -  AjaxSmack  00:37, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

John Meier

I have moved John Meier (disambiguation) back to John Meier. We only need the parenthatical comment if John Meier is taken (as it stood, it was just a redirect page, so I cut out the middle man). I also removed the disambiguation header from the top of the article. The only way someone is going to find these pages is if they click on a link or if they type out John Meier (Australia), so the need for dab is unnecessary. Hope you don't mind these changes. And yes, I was only aware of the biblical scholar before today.--Andrew c 00:52, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

I also removed the disambiguation header from the top of the article. So yup ;)--Andrew c 01:02, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Hi JoergenB. To keep consistency, are you able to rename John Meier (Australia) to either John Meier (politician) or John Meier (Australian politician) as all other disambiguated SA politicans are done that way. I would do it myself but I haven't learnt how to do this. If you can do it, it would be great. Cheers. Timeshift 10:02, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Thankyou :-) Timeshift 16:30, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

0.999... != 1

   1) Is a rose a flower? (Comment: Small children are sometimes stating things like There were three roses and two flowers there.)

A "rose", whatever it is, is irrespective of human designation. A "rose" would still be a "rose" whether or not any human being was there to smell it or not. That being said, according human taxonomy, a rose is indeed a flower, and a flower can be a rose or some other plant with specialized leaves that serve as sexual organs.

   (2) Is a square a rectangle?

Following the logic above, a square is what it is. According to human mathematic theory, a square is indeed a rectangle.

   (3) Is 0.25 = 1/4?

Now, then. These things actually do not exist. Therefore, they are entirely reliant on human logical consistency. Since 1 over four can be represented as twenty five percent, and there are no recursive numbers, there is no cognitive dissonance, so yes, they are in fact the same thing.

   (4) Could the same number have different representations? Could you give an example?

"Numbers" are a human concept created to help us navigate through reality. As long as there is no cognitive dissonance, a number can be represented in many different forms.

   (5) Are integers rational numbers? Why/why not?

Integers are rational numbers because there is no cognitive dissonance required to claim that integers are rational numbers.

Norn language

Thanks for letting me know about your edit. Personally, I think the hyperlinking of Lord's Prayer provides enough explanation, but I can understand your point. I've changed the formatting slightly, but I've left your change in place. Thanks! :o) — OwenBlacker 21:40, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Child Ballads

That sounds all right to me.--Cúchullain ^t/c 19:41, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Replied at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (geographic names)

To your nutshell comment.-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  20:08, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

No apology neccessary

That is why I said "close" to snide. I didn't think your intentions were malicious. I agree with what you are saying, but I was just trying to stay consistent with the linking article on Natural selection. I gave up trying to make certain changes in the article. I share some of your concerns that the present effort to simplify evolution may lead to more misconceptions, but I'm trying to be Neutral and supportive of the present crew of editors attempt. A lot of experts have contributed in the past so I think it fair that novices have a go. I don't consider myself an expert on evolution, but I am a (biological) scientist and it has been a hobby for thiry years. I did teach an introductory course on evolution to undergrads twenty years ago. I bet it would be comical to compare a syllabus of then and now. I have been in research (mostly cell signalling) until recently. That said, my bias is molecular. I find the Wiki process enlightening, frustrating, and interesting. I apologize if I sounded thin skinned.GetAgrippa 16:16, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks!

Thank you for reverting the vandalism on my talk page. Always appreciated! Best, Hagerman^(talk) 01:31, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

You're welcome. (The non-logged in person incidently also vandalised your user page, too.)--JoergenB 17:57, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Number vandalism

I've warned him. Thanks for telling me. Hut 8.5 13:58, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

The Types of the Scandinavian Medieval Ballad

Hi, I was reading this, and it struck me that it was amazingly detailed and specialized philological material that wasn't really getting utilized fully. I appreciate that you wrote the original review at http://www.matematik.su.se/~joeb/kvad/Kommentarer/omTSB.shtml and rewrote for Wikipedia, so it's not original research or copyright violation. What bugged me is that our ballad article is weak as water. We have precious little on ballad development, English ballad types (and there are a lot of typologies), ballad use in later and non-folk literature (e.g. in the Restoration), or even the major steps of the "Ballad Revival." Oh, there is an article on Percy and a few things like Bagford Ballads, but not much. What do you think about trying to work to get an overview of the ballad going? We can then integrate a bunch of "daughter" articles so that the information will be used by college students. Utgard Loki 14:09, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Dives and Lazarus (ballad)

Well, actually, I did have it on my...no, sorry - can't lay claim to that one :). As it happens, I was just doing newpages patrol and noticed the article, and thought I'd have a look. I enjoy reading the articles on the various Child ballads, although I don't know much about any of them beyond having had a few friends in college who sang "Barbara Allen" and "Allen-a-Dale" now and again. And I'm in "tidy" mode today, so when I caught a typo or two I just went ahead and fixed 'em. That's all, really - nothing terribly romantic in it. --User:AlbertHerring ^{Io son l'orecchio e tu la bocca: parla!} 18:38, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Child ballads

I finally got to a library and got the first two volumes of English and Scottish Popular Ballads and am (slowly) working my way through them.

I mention this because when I was adding details to Earl Brand it occured to me that you probably could expand on what was added. Goldfritha 01:53, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Mathematics CotW

Hey Joergen, I am writing you to let you know that the Mathematics Collaboration of the week(soon to "of the month") is getting an overhaul of sorts and I would encourage you to participate in whatever way you can, i.e. nominate an article, contribute to an article, or sign up to be part of the project. Any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks--Cronholm144 22:44, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Re: Proto-Germanic demonstrative

Ah... that was quite a while ago. The table comes either from The Indo-European Languages (Ramat and Ramat; Routledge) or The Germanic Languages (Konig; Routledge), neither of which I have access to at the moment. Give me a few days, I will go look. Strad 22:01, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

religious scholars

Hi JoergenB -- you posted a while ago on Category talk:Religious scholars. I agree there's a problem & responded; perhaps we can dig around and find some other interested people, and develop a useful solution. --Lquilter (talk) 19:38, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

That was a great point about the historical (& WP:CSB) biases in naming categories. --Lquilter (talk) 19:04, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Hyderabad District (Pakistan)

Just thought I'd say, you made a good point and I have amended as suggested.

Pahari Sahib 21:06, 27 December 2007 (GMT)

re: {{catdiffuse}}

Hi, Jörgen. Sorry for not responding, I've only been sporadically active on Wikipedia recently and forgot about your question. No, I do not mind moving the template back. I do believe it should be on the talk page but it would be better to move them all at once than instead of one by one (if someone ever plans to do something about that). Cheers, —Ruud 21:40, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Global (homological) dimension

I notice you mention on your userpage that an article on global homological dimension is missing. Does the article Global dimension provide what you want, or is this a different concept? Michael Slone (talk) 05:16, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

It is the same concept, indeed. I'm just trying to understand the variations in terminology. In our usage, I've always thought of "global" as a qualifier for "homological", considering the projective and injective dimensions of various modules as homological dimensions of a more "local" kind within the category of left or of right modules for a given ring. However, I just verified that Matsumura indeed uses "global dimension" of a ring, without the word "homological"; while Kunz uses "homologische Dimension" (with no mention of "globale") for exactly the same concept (Ernst Kunz, Einführung in die kommutative Algebra und algebraische Geometrie, Kap. VII, § 2). We have an article on cohomological dimension, but none on homological dimension.

Anyhow, Matsumura nowadays is a kind of standard text book in the field, which is an argument for keeping the article at the name global dimension; but Matsumura sometimes seems to choose short terms for convenience (like discarding "Krull dimension" for "dimension" of a ring). For the moment, I think I'll just insert the alternative names into our article, and make a redirect from global homological dimension; however, not from homological dimension, since I suspect we'd rather need a disambiguation page there.

Best, JoergenB (talk) 11:17, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

I created a dab page for global, projective, injective, and cohomological dimensions. There is no article on flat or weak dimension (global dimension refers to weak dimension but does not define it). JackSchmidt (talk) 06:24, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Yes.

Actually, it is possible to define a myriad of slightly different "homological dimensions". What you need is a fairly well-behaved class of (e.g.) modules, and a fairly well-behaved subclass thereof; in the sense that resolutions of objects in the larger class by means of objects in the smaller "compare" (preferrably, directly by the existence of comparison maps of complexes). (Of course, you also should specify what kinds of resolutions you have in mind.) Given that, you get an object-wise dimension (the shortest needed resolution of that object), and a global dimension (the supremum of the object-wise dimensions).

However, even if this rather vague description is made more precise, it is not at all clear that it substantially could remove the burden of describing each encyclopedically interesting homological dimension separately, in sufficient detail.

Here are a few examples: Apart from projective, injective, and flat or weak dimensions (small class: flat modules) we have the the finitistic dimension (large class: finitely generated modules; small class: dito projective ones). Another example is mentioned by P. M. Cohn in Skew fields (cf. Ore condition); I quote from the second paragraph after proposition 1.6.6:

"The homological dimension of a module measures how far the module is from being projective. In this sense one can also ask how far a projective module is from being free. We shall not introduce a measure here, but define a ring R to be projective-free if every finitely generated projective left R-module is free, of unique rank.

(Large class: finitely generated projective left R-modules. Small class: Such ones who also are free, of unique rank. If R is commutative, then all f.g. free modules have unique rank.)

It is probably possible to generalise the subject further. Unhappily, I do not know how far this is done (and published).-JoergenB (talk) 11:16, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Merge Proposal

Please weigh in on the merger proposal between Persons in the Book of Mormon and List of Book of Mormon people. You are receiving this notice since you were identified as a recent editor on one of those pages. Thanks! --Descartes1979 (talk) 19:51, 12 February 2008 (UTC)