Talk:Folk punk

Artists to add to you artists section?

any ideas?

The Levellers

This page is quite US-centric. Definitely needs reference to the Levellers - they triggered a huge wave of interest in folk-punk in the late '80s/'90s in the UK. Shall I add a reference? Shinji nishizono

They also border on Celtic-Punk, but I think they're not too specific and would fit this article (I could be wrong, I'm not entirely familiar with their work). You could add it here or to Celtic-Punk (or to both). Use your best judgement.149.43.x.x 16:40, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm a little late in this discussion, but I'm not sure if I'd consider the levellers punk at all. I love their music, don't get me wrong, but I can't here any real punk influence at all. Seems more like celtic folk than celtic punk or folk punk. I won't remove it though unless others agree with me. Ungovernable Force^{The Wiki Kitchen!} 09:21, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

It varies from song-to-song, but the overall "style and attitude" of the band is folk-punk. e.g. see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyXN8G--MPM

Anarchy Heart?

I don't think I've seen the anarchy heart used by any other folk punk bands except Bombs and Beating Hearts. I know we did not invent it. I'm just saying I don't see how it is a significant symbol in folk punk.

also, I would like to see more about Patrik Fitzgerald and some other early folk punks. I put that he may be the first folk punk, just because I thought it was worth being in there. but i do not like it's positioning in the article, and I think there should be more to the origins of the genre included.Bombsandbeatinghearts 17:42, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

I've never seen this heart thing either, and many of the folk-punk types I know are rather more on the punk end of the spectrum; they wouldn't be entirely happy with that logo any more than the Exploited would be to be playing a Straight-edge all-ages show.... I'd suggest the removal of the image unless there's a source someone can cite for it. Xinit 01:39, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Nor have I, though I'm not very deep in the folk punk scene. I always thought it was more of a christian anarchist thing myself. I'm removing the section about it as well, unless someone can site some kind of source that this is in fact a common folk punk symbol. Ungovernable Force^{The Wiki Kitchen!} 09:24, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

The new Disarm! Disarm! layout makes use of the Anarchy Heart, and nearly all the folk punk kids I know (including myself) do as well. Wishing Well folks tend to, though our website doesn't show it. File:Icons-flag-scotland.png Canæn File:Icons-flag-scotland.png 08:21, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Update I now also use the symbol. I made a stencil patch of it which is now on my jacket in place of the lame punk-style circle-A which I never really liked much anyway. I've been seeing it more and more. I read a story on infoshop.org that was from a Paradise Valley corporate paper about a graffiti spree with peace signs and the anarchy heart. Some stupid cop was like, "We think it is kids because true anarchists would not put a heart next to it (an anarchy symbol)." Lol! Here's the cached version of the page since Infoshop is down right now for some reason. Ungovernable Force^{Got something to say?} 09:29, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

I was always told that it was the image used for FolkAnarchism, from the likes of Crimethinc and the Curious George Brigade. I could be wrong. I originally included the A heart because I had seen it used by local groups and bands, most of which were members of or affiliated with Plan-it-X.

Finding the origins of the "anarchy heart" seems futile but, wherever it comes from, as someone who tours regularly within "folk punk" circles nationally in the United States I can assure you that is has gained popularity as symbolism among members of that scene. I am certain the image predates folk punk, as it started gaining popularity as a patch and stencil graffiti image in my town (Brattleboro, VT) before acoustic or folk punk musicians were touring through it regularly. Personally I find the image to be pretty silly, but it is part of the aesthetics of the scene documented in this article. (Pat The Bunny) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.236.94.72 (talk) 21:40, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Pogues

how can a folk-punk page not mention the pogues? possibly in my opinion the most famous punk/folk band. is there any criteria i dont know of? just curious DR Sloganx

The Pogues are Celtic punk.149.43.x.x 17:50, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

The phrase "Celtic Punk" isn't used in Britain. The Pogues are most definitely considered Folk Punk. Since folk-punk is the combination of any traditional native music (not just American Country and Western) and punk rock, the article should accept that bands such as the Pogues (Irish Folk), The Levellers (English folk) and Gogol Bordello (Eastern European folk) do fit the category.

But the phrases each have specific meaning and their difference is important. Read Folk music, where it explains a bit about how usage and so forth help define the category. In this context, the terms "folk punk" and "Celtic punk" differentiate between two types of music that are very different. I've added a note about punk sub-genres that mix with other types of folk music. I believe this is appropriate. Additional examples analogous to Celtic punk are welcome - I just don't know any more off the top of my head. 149.43.x.x 03:18, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

I disagree with you on this point. I wonder if there's any way we can get a consensus of opinion on this matter. I feel that your definition of folk-punk as being punk-flavoured traditional American music is ethnocentric. I would (and I believe most non-Americans) see Celtic punk as a subset of folk punk rather than an alternate category. I'm not suggesting merging the articles, but folk-punk does not refer specifically to the blend of American folk music with punk. In Britain, the specific definition of Folk-Punk is the combination of traditional British music with punk (your definition would be "country punk"). In America, the definition is the combination of traditional American music and punk. Doesn't this suggest that folk-punk is just a combination of the local traditional music and punk rock?Shinji nishizono 12:29, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm happy to consider it a sub-catagory, rather than a parallel one. That was not my intention, to alienate or separate other genres. My worry was that your suggestion was to erase the boundary between two (or more) significantly different styles of music. The way in which I drew the distinction was not meant to be an integral part of my argument, and I'm sorry if it came across as to separate things. I'll reword my revision slightly to make it more subcategorical. Thanks for your input. 149.43.x.x 19:35, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Spoonboy

Spoonboy does not consider himself folk. He is acoustic pop-punk.

Patrik Fitzgerald

as far as i know, patrik fitzgerald was the firt guy to really do folk punk. someone took that out of the article. can someone put it back in and do a good job about it? maybe in an origins section?

Not that I disagree, but do you have sources at all? I do appreciate that sources in these sorts of articles are hard to find. Just curious.149.43.x.x 04:11, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

all i have is his greatest hits on Cherry Red Records which says the dates that they were all recorded and they are very early. like 77-78. um. can't find much about him on the internet. his site right now is myspace.com/patrikfitzgerald

Cleanup tag

This article contains far too many instances of external links appearing directly in running text; this is not proper Wikipedia format. Links in the body of the article are to be internal links to other Wikipedia articles. If a band named in the article isn't notable enough to have its own article, then it isn't notable enough to be named in this article — especially not when the article has somehow managed to completely ignore more patently obvious notables such as Phranc or The Weakerthans. Bearcat 10:25, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

I agree, although to be fair, I think bands that one considers "ignored" ought to be a separate discussion from the bands that aren't notable. I might take a crack at cleaning it up when I'm not so busy. Cheeser1 17:01, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Inaccuracies

For the record, Team Losing is not from Greensburg, PA. They're from Lancaster, PA, almost 600 miles away from Greensburg. I have a feeling someone wrote that from Greensburg, as Greensburg is in the middle of nowhere and not a good representative town of the state of Pennsylvania. I'm changing that right now. Wesweaver 01:08, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

A Note On Listing Bands

I know we all want to see our favorite bands on Wikipedia, but when there are entire blocks of text that are just lists of bands, it's tedious to read and not very informative in terms of the actual genealogy and state of folk punk as a whole. I propose creating a list of folk-punk bands elsewhere, linking to it, and deleting any reference to a band, collective, or label that isn't described in at least a modicum of detail. Unless anyone objects, I'll do this in a few days. Pstinchcombe 00:05, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

I'd say do it now. I'm sick of this article accruing sloppy garbage lists of bands; it's been a problem in this article for a long time. Cheeser1 02:20, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Huge Clean Up (June 8 2007)

I cleaned this article up significantly. It still needs alot of sourcing (although much of the article seems to speak for itself). Regardless, I'd be happy to discuss the changes I made, although I do want to be clear on one point: This is not a place for you to list your favorite bands. I'm sorry, I wish it were, I'd list all my favorites. But honestly, the article looked like crap before the clean up. Now it's small, concise, and readable - more importantly, it isn't full of bands who do not meet WP:N. --Cheeser1 04:11, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Riot Folk

Why isnt riot folk (www.riotfolk.org) mentioned in this article? theyre one of the largest and most important groups of folk punk musicians around right now. almost everyone who considers themselves a folk punker knows and loves riot folk. i think riot folk should definitely be mentioned in the article. (it should also have its own wikipedia article, it used to i dont know what happened) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.199.78.109 (talk)

This article is already unreferenced enough. Your claims about the popularity of yet another website, like dozens just like it, are unsubstantiated. If you don't know what happened to it, you probably aren't familiar with the deletion process and the policy under which that article would have been deleted, called "notability" guidelines. Please read up, and instead of adding more unreferenced material to the article, you could add some reliable sources for the content that's already here or some content that comes with sources. --Cheeser1 04:06, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

A few bands to add

Chumbawamba, The Mob, The Astronauts, Blyth Power, The Apostles, Karma Sutra, Ian Stuart/Skrewdriver, TV Smith.

Agreed? Stutley (talk) 08:50, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm not familiar with all of these bands, but a few of them don't seem to have wikipedia articles (though most of them do). Please only add artists with wikipedia articles. Klausness (talk) 13:30, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Debate on the definition of folk punk and differences between nations

Someone mentions that the page is US-centric. I disagree. There is no mention of US pioneers like Violent Femmes, who preceded the Pogues, and drew from American folk music, country and western, and blues. This article seens quite one-dimensional just touching on the UK contribution to the genre. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Maicocpa (talk • contribs) 17:27, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for bringing this to the talkpage. The key thing here is the need for some reliable sources. So far I have managed to establish that their first album was described as folk-punk, but All Music describes it as melodic, which doesn't sound very much like the genre being dealt with here. Bear in mind that this article is about a genre called folk punk and not attempts to mix folk and punk (of which there are lots). Some source that outlines their contribution to the folk punk and Celtic punk genres would be very useful if anyone can find one. Failing that I think that they could be mentioned in the origins sub-section as an early attempt to combine the elements. Oh and also, for future reference, new topics usually go at the foot of the page and it is helpful if you can sign your contributions on talk pages with four tildes, which will be converted to a signature when you save.--SabreBD (talk) 17:50, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

I'm very confused by what you said. In what way is folk-punk not a fusion of folk and punk? Since when is melodiousness antithetical to the folk-punk genre? The Pogues can be pretty dang melodic, too, and the description from that allmusic.com bio is "melodic folk-punk" (it also describes them as "raw and jittery"). Maicocpa is right, the Violent Femmes first album predates The Pogues' and was not merely an early attempt at folk-punk; it was a seminal success, eventually going platinum. I wish it had a citation attached for you, but the main Punk Rock article agrees, "Milwaukee's Violent Femmes jumpstarted the American folk punk scene, while The Pogues did the same on the other side of the Atlantic." They deserve, along with other North American contributions, more credit than one sentence in this article. I'm not the one to write this out, but looking for sources, that allmusic.com bio isn't a terrible place to start. "The textbook American cult band of the 1980s, the Violent Femmes captured the essence of teen angst with remarkable precision; raw and jittery, the trio's music found little commercial success but nonetheless emerged as the soundtrack for the lives of troubled adolescents the world over." "Though never a chart hit, the album remained a rite of passage for succeeding generations of teen outsiders." 24.19.213.123 (talk) 08:14, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

Folk Punk?

How many kinds of punk music are there? Let me count: pop punk, cyberpunk, hardcore punk, garage punk, proto-punk, Christian punk, celtic punk, post-punk, anarcho-punk, daft punk, ska punk, dance-punk, art punk, glam punk, crust punk, horror punk, punk jazz, punk metal, nazi punk, Punk pathetique (Ha!), noise punk, cowpunk, Guerrilla punk...

...and now folk punk. It's pretty clear that the word "punk" as it applies to musical genres is meaningless. And this is especially true of "folk punk." The British rock press invented this term in the 1980s, back when it applies the word "punk" to just about everything. But can you really bridge folk and punk music? I don't think so. This genre doesn't really exist. This article should be deleted. 207.158.4.236 (talk) 18:22, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

Not really "and now" folk punk, but very much "for over 40 years folk punk" and almost all of the sub-genres listed above post-date it. There are reliable sources that indicate the existence of the genre. Is important not to conflate not having heard of something with there being no evidence for it. Of course you can always begin a AfD if you think you have good evidence it is not notable.--SabreBD (talk) 18:32, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

Rogue folk references

a lot of this only seems to have a tertiary relevance to punk/folk. Edward II(band) and Oysterband in particular, didn't sound like, dress like, or hang out with punks. their art wasn't punk. they weren't widely listened to by punk communities/scenes then or now, these artists more belong in world music or folk rock pages with artists like steeleye span etc.. Punk doesn't just mean "with attitude". This isn't relevant and I'll delete them again soon if nobody has anything else to say about it.Carrionist (talk) 21:47, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

Folk punk doesn't necessarily mean being punk and then doing folk. The references to rogue folk are an important part of the genres origins in Britain and are reliably sourced.--SabreBD (talk) 19:57, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

Since I haven't read the fairport convention book and it's probably safe to say there was some connection, however vague between acts like that and the pogues I"m down with the rogue folk reference in general (though personally, in years 10 years of traversing both traditional music, underground punk scenes and folk rock scenes i've never even heard that expression used) . but including bands like Edward II and Oysterband that have zero punk influence in an article about folk punk is just misleading . If being punk, dressing punk, sounding punk, having punk art aren't the criterion by which we include bands then what the hell does qualify something as folk punk? The the fact that ten years before there was a slight chance that maybe they were both listening to their mom's fairport convention records? by that logic we should then include about a million other "significant" bands, from Oasis to Paddyrasta. if folk punk isn't a crossover genre between folk and punk, what is it? - Carrionist (talk) 20:39, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

okay, you didn't respond, I'm going to delete those bands. Carrionist (talk) 16:36, 28 April 2012 (UTC)

I didn't respond becaue there are no new points here. My position has not changed. It does not mean there is consensus.--SabreBD (talk) 17:28, 28 April 2012 (UTC)

you haven't seen a guitar, banjo, washboard, and washtub bass play punk rock songs on a street corner?!? you guys fail.. GO OUTSIDE — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.173.112.106 (talk) 13:05, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

Changed opening "popularizing" folk punk band for the U.S. from The Raspberries

Regarding the change from The Raspberries to The Violent Femmes as the article's opening example of a burgeoning folk-punk band for the United States: Temporally folk punk is considered to be "born" in the late seventies and early 80s (generally designated as early 80s), making the Pogues an excellent British example who formed in 1982 (Shane MacGowan, of course, was active in the punk scene throughout the seventies, with bands such as the Nipple Erectors/The Nips and others) but The Raspberries are a terrible example for the US, who were a band only active in the early seventies (disbanded in '75 and reunited from 2004-2005), so they are not only temporally a bad example but moreover they were mostly known as a somewhat "mod" pop-rock band whose influences were much more mainstream to classify as folk-punk, especially given the time they were active and and are still considered to be far too pop-rock to even be classified as folk-punk, let alone act as a primary example for popularizing the genre, if only one band is to be listed in the opening of the article as an example of popularizing early U.S. folk-punk. The violent Femmes are used as the first example in the 1980s section, which is very appropriate as they are not only categorized as folk-punk but are often considered by many to be "the fathers" of folk punk, along with the Pogues, so are an appropriate correction from the bad choice of The Raspberries. If it is consensus that it should be changed to reflect an earlier band, I really don't care, as long as it not be changed back to The Raspberries!!! Soco_79 —Preceding undated comment added 01:00, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

It was an unsourced change by an IP and you are probably right.--SabreBD (talk) 07:00, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

Agree. North8000 (talk) 12:18, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

Any objections to mergeing in the page for Anti-Folk?

The anti-folk page needs a lot of work. I see enough similarities/crossover in the genre's to place them under one article, folk punk being the bigger genre. Maybe at the top put (also known as rogue folk), anti-folk, cowpunk etc.). I would also import all of the bands, descriptions, etc. from the Anti-Folk Article. --Wesborden (talk) 08:11, 30 April 2019 (UTC)

I tend to view genre names as terms first. These two genre terms seem to have very different definitions. North8000 (talk) 14:41, 30 April 2019 (UTC)

Info

Robvanvee I don't get the issue with the image the demonstration is a popular folk punk demonstration which anarchists get together on a farm and have a festival it screams folk punk. Images don't need sources if you know it's obvious, you don't need to cite the sky is blue. Vallee01 (talk) 06:39, 17 December 2020 (UTC)

I didn't touch the image, I deleted the unsourced prose you reinstated. Robvanvee 06:43, 17 December 2020 (UTC)

Ahhhh... I will get a source but the article already exists, and the article states its folk punk. I will find a source however. Vallee01 (talk) 06:45, 17 December 2020 (UTC)

Yeah but it is not sourced in the respective article. Secondly, now that you mention it, where is your proof this image is in any way related to folk punk? Robvanvee 06:47, 17 December 2020 (UTC)

Robvanvee Its a Crass festival in which anarchists get together on a farm make folk punk with acoustic guitars and get drunk with demonstrations. It's based of the punk Crass. Vallee01 (talk) 06:49, 17 December 2020 (UTC)

You said that yes, but where is your proof. "Images don't need sources if you know it's obvious"...It may be obvious to you but that's not good enough. As per WP:V, the onus is on you to cite your edits if another editor disagrees...ie...me. Robvanvee 06:53, 17 December 2020 (UTC)

See this, you don't need to cite the Sky is blue. However more importantly this isn't hard to find so I am not going to state if or if not the image needs a source (it doesn't), it is both Punk and Folk and it is obvious. The event is folk punk oriented demonstrations called the Crass pub festival, see link. Vallee01 (talk) 07:02, 17 December 2020 (UTC)

Robvanvee It depends what is being cited, if it is an absolutely obvious statement such as "The sky is blue" or "How do we known socialism politically is red?" none of those things need citations. We can use common sense when editing articles or at least we should and we do. Vallee01 (talk) 07:04, 17 December 2020 (UTC)

the + band name

"the Moldy Peaches" (e. g.) looks stupid from my point of view. I would prefer "The Moldy Peaches". 46.114.141.212 (talk) 00:42, 10 April 2021 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Disability Rhetorics

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 29 August 2022 and 12 December 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Other Friend, Different Hat (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by Other Friend, Different Hat (talk) 02:32, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Acoustic vs. Electric folkpunk

I've thought for a while about mentioning in the page how the term "folkpunk" is sort of one label that encompasses two different genres- acoustic (mostly American) folkpunk and electric (mostly European) folkpunk. Acoustic folkpunk would be bands such as Pat the Bunny and his projects, Days N' Daze, etc., mostly from America, which play unamplified music in the singer-songwriter tradition that expresses punk themes and values (similar to acoustic punk rock). It rarely interacts with traditional folk music, but is heavily influenced by alternative country and such. Electric folkpunk would be bands such as The Dreadnoughts, Flogging Molly, Kultur Shock, etc., mostly from Europe and Canada, which play traditional folk music (and songs heavily influenced by traditional folk music) in an amplified punk rock style. This category includes the celtic punk and gypsy punk, which often have very little in common with the acoustic folkpunk style of Pat the Bunny for instance. In short, acoustic folkpunk is playing punk music in a folk style and electric folkpunk is playing folk music in a punk style.

This delineation is something I see being worth mentioning, because even though they are both mixes of folk and punk music, they are very different styles. I haven't found sources to support this yet but I am 100% confident that they exist. What are people's thoughts on this? Zhuvelo (talk) 21:29, 11 August 2023 (UTC)