Talk:Knight Bachelor

Post nominals

Post nominals: "It is doubtful whether this enjoys official sanction"? So it's not official then... and this assertion should not be here. "Kt" is wrong. The reference is to the order of wear list which summarises which honours may or may not have post nominals. Knights bachelor are not entitled to do so.

It doesn't say it's not wrong, it say it's often used, which is correct. Proteus (Talk) 21:46, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Indeed. I've clarified that and the bit about what women get instead. Also added in an example of someone who is - exceptionally - allowed to use the "Kt" because he got his Knight Bachelor before succeeding to the Baronetcy. I'll see if I can find a picture of the badge and perhaps add to this page a bit - it seems a shame it's not quite as informative as the articles covering the orders. Wiki-Ed 12:59, 13 Oct 2004 (UTC)

The UK College of Arms appears to use Kt. for Knight on all occasions and in all documents under the Earl marshal's and Queen's Warrants. That doesn't change the fact it's not used in any other contextAlci12

It's much better now. (I'm glad you removed the nonsense about female Knights Bachelor, or Dames Bachelor, or Dames Spinster, or whatever silly name they'd be called.) There seem to be very few pictures of the Knight Bachelor's badge online, and those there are seem to be copyrighted, which is a problem, but I'm sure there'll be one somewhere if we look hard enough. Proteus (Talk) 15:10, 13 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Picture

The picture added by ESQ24 appears to be the same as the one on www.medals.org.uk. The copyright status needs to be determined or it will have to go... which would be a shame because it's a nice one. Wiki-Ed 13:07, 15 August 2005 (UTC)

A question

Is it possible that a Knight Bachelor been awarded a KBE or vice versa ? Siyac 18:41, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

No & yes. I can't think of any circumstances or any historic examples where someone with a knighthood has been made a Knight Bachelor. However giving a Knight Bachelor a KBE (or another order) is fairly common as the former is the lowest rung on the ladder and promotions are normal. As a general rule of thumb your get promoted through the various orders both in terms of the ranks in each orders and within the ranking of an order.[All assuming whatever you do qualifies you for multiple orders in terms of their awarding guidelines - ie KCMG is for 'diplomats'] As an example Sir Mike Jackson was awarded the MBE in 1979, the CBE in 1992, the CB in 1996, the KCB in 1998 and more recently was awarded the GCB. The only obvious exceptions are when they run out of things to give! Various wartime generals picked up anything going and in recent times you have had Lord [Seb] Coe getting KBE after already being a peer which is very much a backwards step ;) Assuming a successful 2012 Olympics and old age and he'll probably get his KG. As to your specific example, David Phillips was Knight Batchelor in 1979, Knight Commander, Order of the British Empire (KBE) in 1989 and appointed in 1994 to a Life Peerage as Baron Phillips of Ellesmere. Alci12 15:30, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Re: Seb Coe - Not exactly a 'backwards step' getting a KBE after being made a peer; the latter was a political appointment (at the time he was chief of staff to the then Leader of the Opposition William Hague), while the former was in recognition for services to sport. He was not made a KG after the v. successful 2012 Olympics but was made a CH instead, somewhat less exclusive but not by a long way. See this list of post-nominal letters if needed. Mattstan (talk) 17:33, 8 June 2019 (UTC)

Can only Britians be Knights?

As I understand it any subject of the monarch can be knighted. But for subjects in Commonwealth countries the British government have to get approval of the Commonwealth government before an award can be made and several of the Commonwealth governments (particularly Canada and Australia, not sure about others) now have standing policy to refuse recomendations for honours. A couple of Australians have been knighted in recent years - David Smith, but as KCVO, which is entirely the monarch's personal award and so doesn't go through the government - and Robert May, who probably had British citizenship as well. Timrollpickering 11:50, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Official list

What is the most reliable source we have for a list of verified Knights Bachelor so we know who to include or exclude at Category:Knights Bachelor?

For example at Paul McCartney the only reference I can see next to "1997: Knighted by Queen Elizabeth II for services to music" is Harry 2002, pp. 226–227, referring to:

Harry, Bill (2002). The Paul McCartney Encyclopedia. Virgin. ISBN 978-0-7535-0716-2. {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)

Actually I'll need to bring that up because I notice that page 38 says this was 1996.

Bill Harry is certainly a notable person but... is he a neutral source? He has a pretty close relationship with them. I'd rather here it from an uninvolved party. Surely there is an official website affiliated with the royal family which we can rely on to say who is or isn't a knight.

If merely footage of a knighting ceremony qualifies then Michael Coulthard should probably be listed as one according to http://www.wwe.com/videos/michael-cole-talks-about-being-knighted-by-the-queen-of-england-on-raw-raw-s-1-000th-episode-airs-on-july-23

I'm not good with faces... it looks like it could be the queen, not 100% sure though. Michael is a respected journalist and says it is her, so I would go with that interpretation unless we can find a more reliable source saying it wasn't the Queen who knighted him. Ranze (talk) 06:30, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

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Sir Mick Jagger

Jagger is a knight bachelor. I remember reading that, around the time he was elevated that (1) most knights, nowadays, are created within one of the orders of knights, like from the Order of the British Empire; (2) Jagger, however, was made a knight bachelor, because he was too controversial, and being enrolled in one of the knightly orders, would annoy the earlier members, some of whom are quite traditional.

If this could be documented, does it merit coverage, here? Geo Swan (talk) 02:41, 9 May 2017 (UTC)

It's rubbish (although it would never surprise me if it was perpetuated by some ignorant journalists in the tabloids). Knight Bachelor is still by far the commonest type of knighthood. The alternative (for those who do not merit another order due to their post), Knight Commander of the Order of the British Empire, is actually a fairly unusual honour. -- Necrothesp (talk) 11:43, 13 February 2020 (UTC)

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Dupe Ribbon Image as of July 2020

Which of these two should be used? As of 2020-07-17, both are on the article, one in the infobox and one in the Insignia section.

• 
  File:Knight Bachelor Ribbon.png
• 
  File:Knight-Bachelor.ribbon.png

— MrDolomite • Talk 20:37, 17 July 2020 (UTC)

How many ?

How many gentlemen may call themselves Sir ?51.174.17.218 (talk) 23:33, 15 November 2020 (UTC)

• According to Debrett's, there are today ca. 3,000 living knights and dames in the UK. Mr. D. E. Mophon (talk) 16:08, 24 June 2023 (UTC)

References

In what order should the awardees be listed? Alphabetical or time of awarding?

Currently I can't see any logic in what order awardees are listed. JuhoV (talk) 21:37, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

Medieval knight bachelor

The same words used to designate the person of knightly descent with the lowest rank in the medieval times. I am looking for suggestions on whether to incorporate this meaning into the existing article or start a new one. For the usage, see [1], on pp. 76-77 Викидим (talk) 15:25, 2 September 2024 (UTC)