Talk:Mitch Daniels/Archive 1

Archive 1

Name

Is Wikipedia on a first-name basis with the Governor? Referring to him as "Mitch" seems informal and possibly disrespectful. --Malathion 30 June 2005 04:10 (UTC)

That is intentional. It is supposed to be informal, to make you deel closer to him. Similar "I like Ike." I added the bits about tenderloins and Frank O'bannon, as well as a link to mymanmitch.com, and edited away slight POV in the midnight rider section (mostly just word choice, like "added" instead of "slipped in").Apfox 15:16, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

His election campaign slogan was "My Man Mitch"; he is often referred to as "Mitch" by a variety of sources. Don't know about dictionaries, though. -- 147.226.157.75 18:50, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

1970 Marijuana Possession Arrest

I have reverted an anonymous user's deletion of information relating to Daniels' 1970 arrest for possession of marijuana. My source for this information is the Indianapolis Star profile listed in the "External links" section. --TommyBoy 20:29, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

In order to ensure compliance with Wikipedia policy on external links, I have converted the Indianapolis Star link to an in-line reference. --TommyBoy 03:04, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Arab American

Is there is any credible evidence pointing to truth in the line, "A first-generation Arab-American of Syrian descent"? I don't consider NNDB a credible source. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Reidhoch (talk • contribs) 17:26, 31 January 2007 (UTC).

There appears to no other reference that NNDB. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Jimbo_Wales/Archive_17#.22NNDB_is_never_a_source.22 --rogerd 03:37, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Whether he was born in Pennsylvania or Indiana, he could not then be a "first generation" Arab American. Along those same lines, unless someone can show that his parents immigrated from Arabia, how could anyone say that he is even a second generation "Arab-American"? If he does indeed have any Syrian heritage, would he not be a "Syrian-American"?

The article actually says the his is the "grandson" of Syrian immigrants so, if the information is correct, he would be 2nd generation... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.176.194.151 (talk) 20:49, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

Daylight Saving Time controversy

Another notable highlight of Gov Daniels's term was his push to implement Daylight Saving Time in Indiana. Within the state, the controversy is huge and continues to brew. I was perplexed to find no mention of it on the Daniels wiki page. Should it be included? Timooo0 05:24, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Toll road and Major Moves

As I read through this article, I was suprised to find no mention of Gov. Daniels's push for the lease of the Indiana Toll Road and the Major Moves plan. If added, the section would have to be very POV sensitive, as the issue is a big one in Indiana. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 165.139.160.103 (talk) 16:55, 17 April 2007 (UTC).

Muslim or Presbeterian

Why are we edit warring over this? He is not muslim. That is ridiculous. Charles Edward 17:33, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

I see he is blocked, never mind! Charles Edward 17:39, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Unsourced speculation about Daniels and thiomersal

A fact tag has been hanging on this statement since February 2007: "Daniels was mentioned as being involved in the insertion of the "Midnight Rider" of the Homeland Security Act which was signed into law on November 25 2002." There was some speculation about that in November 2002, but CBS News reported in December 2002 that Armey did it, not Daniels.[1] I removed the unsourced statement. Eubulides (talk) 18:41, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Weasel Words?

In the Governor section, a note questioning the neutrality of this section was added in May 2008, but no talk section was added. Could someone please note here what weasel words/phrases are in question? Nathandiehl (talk) 18:50, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

I did a bit of work on the article, references things better and removed what i thought may be the weasle word along with the tag. Charles Edward 20:43, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

This article gives me the very strong impression that it is maintained by propagandists. Probably the governor's staff, or Indiana GOP party staff. I assume that's a common problem with politicians. GXIndiana (talk) 18:55, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

I gave the article a fair copy edit a few months ago and it is not substantially changed since then. The article does have a pretty rosey glow to it and some areas do need be a more objective, but then again Daniels is considered to be a pretty successful governor and so far no scandals. He does not get a signigicant amount of bad press. lol! —Charles Edward ^{(Talk | Contribs)} 18:59, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

IEDC

The phrase "In it's first year, the IEDC closed more transactions than in the previous two years combined." confuses me. Who closed what transactions before the IEDC was created? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.54.4.60 (talk) 03:42, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

Bio

Is anyone aware of a good biographical article or book on Daniels? He has a sketch in a couple books I have, and there are a few online articles that are cursory at best. Governor's of Indiana, by Gugin, has the best sketch I found, but its from 2006, and only covers two years of his governorship. I would like to find a good bio to expand this article in a more comprehensive way, its kinda hodge podge now. —Charles Edward ^{(Talk | Contribs)} 14:03, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Place of Birth

In the article it says he was born in Middlebury Indiana, and in his governor box it says her was born in Pennsylvania. Which is it?

Kenya. All Hallow's Wraith (talk) 08:57, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

He was born in PA, vandalism, I will revert —Charles Edward ^{(Talk | Contribs)} 14:31, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Draft

Daniels was an undergraduate during the hot years of the biggest war of his lifetime --Vietnam. The two biggest issues of that era, for any healthy male, were the draft and Vietnam. Yet the article is silent on this. Daniels now seeks public service. Did he seek public service during the Vietnam War? This is an extremely relevant question for any public servant.

According to this newspaper article, he received student deferments while in school, and upon graduation his draft lottery number was high enough (147) that he ended up not being called. Mahousu (talk) 18:51, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

Added flags for article (information not notable) and for cleanup (list under 2012 speculation)

I think the section on 2012 Presidential Speculation should, at the very least, be in prose as opposed to list form, per Wikipedia's Manual of Style. I also think the information in said list is generally unhelpful as is. Cleanup of the section is requested, in addition to expansion of the section in some more informative way. Jymlarin (talk) 01:00, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

Wisconsis

A section was added to describe Daniels comments about the situation in Wisconsis. I have reworked the section to refocus it on the legislative walkouts in Indiana. I think his comments about Wisconsis are not particularly relevant to the article and may constitute undue weight. I believe they should be moved to the article about the Wisconsis situation, if kept at all. Frankly every person in teh nation has states some opinion about the Wisconsis situation, I don't think we should bother to include every tidle. If there is no disagreement, I will shortly remove the paragraph in question. —Charles Edward ^{(Talk | Contribs)} 13:56, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

Drug History

The paragraph on Daniels' marijuana use history is perhaps now too long. I think that just mentioning the arrest and fine should be sufficient for an encyclopedia's personal history sketch. However, I can see how it may be of interest to include some of his later commentary on the incident, as well as others' critical commentary. Thoughts? DDennisM (talk) 20:11, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

I think the paragraph as wrote is acceptable. It is mentioned again briefly in the first election campaign section where it was a minor issue. —Charles Edward ^{(Talk | Contribs)} 20:16, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

I added the information and footnoted quote on his drug bust at Princeton to include the LSD and illicit prescription drugs. One of the two roommates got off with no fine so this might indicate that Daniels or the third roommate were dealing drugs, given that there were two size-12 shoeboxes of pot there, not the ordinary stash of a casual user. Given that our current president has indicated he used and sold drugs himself, I thought it rates more than a mention of a pot bust. Wardraw (talk) 15:04, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

The footnote is ok I think. Before it was a very lengthy detailed retelling of the story, very much undue weight. The Obama article gives even less space to discuss his involvement with drugs than this article, and it was similar in scope to this event. That article mentions in one line the drug use, and gives several footnotes with quotes. Daniels issue has received very little attention in his campaigns, such that it is almost a non-item, the same as Obama's use has received little coverage. —Charles Edward ^{(Talk | Contribs)} 15:21, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

I do see your point about the Obama page but I do think these matters deserve some attention from these Johnny-come-lately Drug Warrior types in either party. I'm usually willing to bash these known hypocrites on a bipartisan basis. Wardraw (talk) 15:38, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

getting Wikipedia "straightened out", Scientology vs. Lilly's Prozac, personal wealth

In his interview with the Weekly Standard[2], Daniels again complained of those who blamed him for saying that the entire Iraq war was supposed to cost only $75 billion.

“The facts are otherwise,” he told me, exasperated, when I mentioned it. “I thought we’d dispensed with this, but I guess not. I think we got it straightened out on Wikipedia at least. I got so sick of it I put together a whole file of stuff that lays out the facts.” Among the material is a background briefing Daniels gave reporters in April 2002, outlining Bush’s request for $74 billion to fight the war. “I said to the Pentagon, give us your assumptions. They talked about a six-month conflict, and we made our estimate on the basis of that.” The briefing transcript bears this out. “This [budget request] will, to the best of our ability to estimate this, cover all costs from now to the end of the fiscal year,” Daniels said then. “Six months contemplates a conflict, a period of stabilization in Iraq, and the phased withdrawal of a large number of troops.” He says now, “If someone had come to us and said, What will it cost to invade Iraq, beat the Iraqi Army and stay in Iraq for eight more years, we would have given a different answer. But that wasn’t the question.”

Obviously, this is a silly accusation since no one can possibly produce an estimate of total costs for a war whose duration is unknown and open-ended.

So I "straightened out" Wikipedia.

I did include the real highlight of his work for Lilly, the fight against Scientology over Prozac. I decided to avoid using the word 'Scientology' on the public page since I'm not here to pick fights with those folks. They have every right to oppose Prozac and psychiatric drugs and to expose them, Lilly has every right to defend their product(s) in court and the media.

Daniels' work at Lilly and the size of his cashout seemed more relevant since we quite often don't know the actual size of the personal fortunes of these politicians or their source. For instance, Hillary Clinton sitting on the board of Walmart, an Arkansas corporation. Or Rahm Emmanuel and his supposed banking expertise. The list of these pols and their revolving doors to corporate America is endless. Daniels did at least do some identifiable work to earn his money from Lilly. And it seems cogent to point out that he is now independently wealthy but has divested from Lilly stock. It will raise questions about how unbiased Daniels may be in any dispute involving Big Pharma. We need more info on where the pols have made so much money. Wardraw (talk) 15:26, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

I've edited your work somewhat already in an effort to maintain concision. And you don't have to worry about the Scientology people, the entire group was banned from wikipedia a few years ago after a major dispute and legal threats. Thanks for your contributions, I am glad to see other editors take interest in topics like this. See Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Scientology. —Charles Edward ^{(Talk | Contribs)} 15:34, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

Your edits were better than what I offered, more neutral in tone, providing the information without drawing any final conclusions. You got at the meat of the matter, the accusations, the denials Daniels has issued. Let the reader decide. Wardraw (talk) 15:51, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

Under Family Life: Problem Sentence

"His high grades allowed him to gain entry to Georgetown University Law Center where earned a Juris Doctor with Honors from Georgetown University Law Center.[6]" Do we really need to mention the Law Center twice in the same sentence? Wouldn't it sound better to say, "His high grades allowed him to gain entry to Georgetown University Law Center where earned a Juris Doctor with Honors.[6]" ? Thank you. 114.148.226.183 (talk) 11:04, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

Timezones incorrect

The paragraph on daylight savings time says all of Indiana has the same time except the northwest corner. That is incorrect. The northwest and southwest corners both are in CST and CDT, not EST and EDT.

N0rdv (talk) 15:10, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Mitch Daniels/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Designate (talk) 02:22, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

   I fixed some minor things. Easily above GA quality. This sentence: "Daniels has been honored by the Arab-American Institute with the 2011 Najeeb Halaby Award for Public Service." seems very out-of-place to me, though.

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

   Everything's sourced and reasonable.

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

   Very broad. May need to be rewritten for concision in some places.

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

   No major disputes raised. The controversial parts look even-handed.

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

   See #4.

6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

   I think the infobox image should have a caption as it's a little dated.

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

I'm going to pass this as GA quality. Are you going for FA? —Designate (talk) 02:22, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Mitch Daniels/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Needs reference citations and formal references. Badbilltucker 22:31, 7 January 2007 (UTC) Needs Articles, references, and links that allow the reader to access News stories that demonstrate the losses suffered by millions of people in this state and show that children have been forced to sacrifice first and foremost as shown in this link: http://www.theindychannel.com/news/29775794/detail.html ... State Sen. John Broden, D-h Bend, wants to bring the subsidy back. "There's a moral obligation here. We should not be trying to balance our state budget on the backs of abused and neglected children," Broden said. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.17.96.126 (talk) 15:32, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

Last edited at 15:34, 18 November 2011 (UTC). Substituted at 15:24, 1 May 2016 (UTC)

File:Indiana Governor Mitch Daniels Official Photo.jpg Nominated for Deletion

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Flawed statements in the Daniels article.

"The same day, he decertified all government employee unions by executive order, removing the requirement that State employees be union members, a requirement that had been in place since Governor Evan Bayh required by executive order in 1989.[26]"

This statement is incorrect. The Executive Order that Bayh passed did not require employees to join the union, nor were they ever required to join. Also, the order was passed in 1990 so it is pretty much factually incorrect. Here is the link to Executive Order 03-35, which reprints the original executive order and extends it during Kernan's governing time period. They were required to pay at most 85% of union dues due to courtcase Nass v State, which I am also including a link to. However they were not technically members of the union simply covered by their collective bargaining agreements.

I would alter it myself, however I'm unfamiliar with creating footnotes with Wikipedia. 75.107.155.40 (talk) 04:47, 30 April 2011 (UTC)

This is a little bit of original research on your side, do you have a source for it all besides Kernan's executive order? Linda Gugin expressly states in her book that Bayh made the executive order, and that it required the state to recognize employee unions, and by doing so, it triggered a state union-shop rule, which it turn did require all employees to pay union dues and be covered by the collective bargaining agreements - I don't know what else you'd call that besides putting the employees into a union? Gugin goes on to say that once Daniel's ended the executive order, union membership among state workers dropped 95% within three or so months.. Gugin is the source given in the article, and I have seen similar information in other articles, so there is fair reason to believe it. I believe each governor likely has to reinstate the executive orders of his predecessors because I believe their orders expire with their terms. So Bayh's original order would have been extended by O'Bannon and Kernan, and then revoked by Daniels. Here is a pretty good summary source you might want to check out [3].

I have also removed the advertisement tag you placed on the page. I see criticisms within the article, and the statement of facts that not positive for Daniels. If you have a specific item that you think is too promotional, I'd be glad to work with you to remove any bias to balance it out. —Charles Edward ^{(Talk | Contribs)} 12:29, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

Not much here on Daniels' personal life. It's certainly not separated out as its own section as it is on many other places on this site.

Any reason for that at all? 76.168.137.222 (talk) 05:13, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

I'm looking forward to the academic work of Purdue's PR department.~~ — Preceding unsigned comment added by GXIndiana (talk • contribs) 12:07, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

Personal Life?

Why isn't there a personal life section of this individual. He has had a notable personal life in that he divorced and remarried the same woman. Why isn't there a section on this? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.49.44.154 (talk) 13:30, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

That's all covered in the Early life sections. --Coemgenus (talk) 14:58, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

Healthy Indiana Plan

The quote cross referenced to Wall Street Journal article: "A consumption tax on a product you'd just as soon have less of doesn't violate the rules I learned under Ronald Reagan" seems incorrect. Does anyone have access to WSJ archives to verify? Brijesh 15:59, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

Yes, the quote is accurate. Here's an excerpt:

"I know my supply-side catechism," he explained in an interview with me. "A consumption tax on a product you'd just as soon have less of doesn't violate the rules I learned under Ronald Reagan." Mr. Daniels was political director of the Reagan White House from 1985 to 1987. Now as governor, Mr. Daniels has his own set of political rules that include, he implies like Reagan, going along with a tax hike when there's no alternative.

DDennisM (talk) 20:29, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

However, our paragraph containing this quote doesn't really add anything to the article. Not only redundant, it reads like a preemptive defense of the HIP. DDennisM (talk) 20:35, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Could someone upload a picture of Kernan — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.223.192.251 (talk) 03:12, 12 April 2014 (UTC)

Inaccuracies regarding description of first and second terms

I have no idea how to edit on Wikipedia, but noticed a couple of glaring errors in this article that someone should fix. The description of the Daylight Saving Time debate during the first term is completely inaccurate. For one thing, the article states that Indiana was in the Eastern Time Zone but informally observed two time zones. Most of Indiana was (and remains) in the Eastern Time Zone but several counties in the northwest and southwest are in the Central Time Zone. Prior to Indiana adopting DST by statute, some Southern and Southeastern counties near Cincinnati and Louisville informally followed Eastern Daylight Time. Thus, Indiana was informally on THREE time zones, not two. The article also implies that the generally assembly could not come to terms on the time zone issue. The Indiana General Assembly did not have authority to change Indiana's time zones - that is at the discretion of the US Department of Transportation. After Indiana enacted DST, the USDOT did hold hearings in Indiana and determined appropriate time zones - most of Indiana remaining in the Eastern Time Zone and counties in the NW and SW corners remaining on Central Time.

Regarding the description of the second term and the House Democrat walkout to Illinois, the article states that both the House and Senate had super-majorities. I think what the author probably meant to say was that the Senate Republicans had a super-majority and the House Republicans had REGAINED a majority (not a super-majority) in the 2010 election. Obviously, if House Republicans had a super-majority in 2011, the Democrat walkout would have been moot because it would not have denied a quorum to do business. The House Republicans gained a super-majority in the 2012 election, after the 2012 session in which the Right to Work bill was passed.

I have no references to cite other than first hand knowledge, but I was intimately involved in both issues.

I hope someone with the appropriate editing skills and knowledge will edit these sections. 99.49.62.238 (talk) 15:15, 10 May 2014 (UTC)

Inaccuracies regarding description of first and second terms

I have no idea how to edit on Wikipedia, but noticed a couple of glaring errors in this article that someone should fix. The description of the Daylight Saving Time debate during the first term is completely inaccurate. For one thing, the article states that Indiana was in the Eastern Time Zone but informally observed two time zones. Most of Indiana was (and remains) in the Eastern Time Zone but several counties in the northwest and southwest are in the Central Time Zone. Prior to Indiana adopting DST by statute, some Southern and Southeastern counties near Cincinnati and Louisville informally followed Eastern Daylight Time. Thus, Indiana was informally on THREE time zones, not two. The article also implies that the generally assembly could not come to terms on the time zone issue. The Indiana General Assembly did not have authority to change Indiana's time zones - that is at the discretion of the US Department of Transportation. After Indiana enacted DST, the USDOT did hold hearings in Indiana and determined appropriate time zones - most of Indiana remaining in the Eastern Time Zone and counties in the NW and SW corners remaining on Central Time.

Regarding the description of the second term and the House Democrat walkout to Illinois, the article states that both the House and Senate had super-majorities. I think what the author probably meant to say was that the Senate Republicans had a super-majority and the House Republicans had REGAINED a majority (not a super-majority) in the 2010 election. Obviously, if House Republicans had a super-majority in 2011, the Democrat walkout would have been moot because it would not have denied a quorum to do business. The House Republicans gained a super-majority in the 2012 election, after the 2012 session in which the Right to Work bill was passed.

I have no references to cite other than first hand knowledge, but I was intimately involved in both issues.

I hope someone with the appropriate editing skills and knowledge will edit these sections. 99.49.62.238 (talk) 15:15, 10 May 2014 (UTC)

Hey I originally posted this back in May but see no one has done anything with it.  I wish I knew how to edit this myself.  Makes me question the veracity of anything on Wikipedia.  While I don't have specifically ready to cite, all of my comments above are easily verifiable from any number of sources.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.49.62.238 (talk) 23:58, 18 July 2014 (UTC) 

Removal of "Danielsism" from Profile.

There is no serious "Danielsism." At best, in 2011 there were a couple of conservative pundits who used the term as a way of promoting Daniels as a presidential candidate, but nothing has been written about this "perspective" since 2011. The word is a a vanity term that does not meet eligibility criteria for Wikipedia. AoS XseedX (talk) 05:17, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

External links modified

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External links modified

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Delete this now: I'm writing in Mitch if Trump gets the nod

OTOH, if you agree, add your name:

• Lfstevens (talk) 08:05, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

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• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120320094251/http://www.wishtv.com/dpp/news/politics/state_politics/daniels-chalks-up-legislative-wins to http://www.wishtv.com/dpp/news/politics/state_politics/daniels-chalks-up-legislative-wins
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150213170310/http://www.cfr.org/projects/world/independent-task-force-on-noncommunicable-diseases/pr1667 to http://www.cfr.org/projects/world/independent-task-force-on-noncommunicable-diseases/pr1667

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External links modified

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• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20101217050931/http://www.wane.com/dpp/news/politics/daniels-to-decide-on-wh-run-before-may to http://www.wane.com/dpp/news/politics/daniels-to-decide-on-wh-run-before-may

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