Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive131
SMcCandlish
editWith regard to pages or discussions related to WP:MOS, SMcCandlish is prohibited from making bad faith assumptions about other participants; strongly advised to avoid commenting on contributor, particularly with regard to WP:NPA and WP:CIV; and encouraged to keep his contributions to a reasonable length. Gatoclass (talk) 06:34, 2 March 2013 (UTC) | ||
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Request concerning SMcCandlishedit
User keeps personalizing style disputes, with no diffs. The comments are made in MOS pages, relate to MOS matters, and refer to editors that had MOS disputes with him. Many of the diffs are comments about some members of the WP:BIRDS wikiproject, even if the project is not mentioned by name. User was specifically warned about "broad allegations of severe personal misconduct on the part of several editors", with the allegations being "unsupported by any useful evidence". [1] --Enric Naval (talk) 03:21, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
Discussion concerning SMcCandlisheditStatement by SMcCandlishedit
Comments by others about the request concerning SMcCandlishedit
Statement by Hans AdlereditFrom a broader point of view it is encouraging to see Sandstein continuing to dig his own grave (more precisely: his adminship's). I have long felt that his wikilawyering power trips probably make him a net negative influence on the project. But I am worried about the possibility of further collateral damage in this particular dispute. Maybe Arbcom would like to have a quiet word with Sandstein? I am beginning to believe that he is acting in good faith and really just doesn't get it. Hans Adler 14:05, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
Statement by The Devil's AdvocateeditLooks to me like the events played out as such: SMc raised reasonable concerns regarding information on the MOS pages and possible conflict between two of the pages. Peter coxhead, makes a suggestion, but mostly uses his response to rattle on about how MOS bad. SMc responds with his comments about WP:BIRDS and Quale responds with general soapboxing against MOS and MOS "denizens" inflaming the dispute further. Context matters in this situation as others were serving to inflame the dispute, taking it off-track from what it was initially about.--The Devil's Advocate tlk. cntrb. 18:39, 24 February 2013 (UTC) Statement by Ohconfuciusedit
Statement by JohnuniqeditI would like to support the excellent statement by Gatoclass at 10:22, 27 February 2013. Thank you Gatoclass for taking the time to explain what AE should be about—protecting the encyclopedia, weeding out destructive editors, and protecting those who are constructive. Admins need to nurture the encyclopedia by encouraging those editors who assist it, not whack each participant an equal number of times. Johnuniq (talk) 10:48, 27 February 2013 (UTC) Statement by -scheedit
Result concerning SMcCandlishedit
The request has merit. As a party to the original case, WP:ARBATC, and by way of my AE warning of 1 February 2013 and another AE request of 8 February 2013, SMcCandlish has been reminded multiple times that the manual of style (MOS) is not a battleground. However, as this request shows, SMcCandlish continues to treat it as one, notably by personalizing stylistic disagreements by ascribing disruptive intent to other editors (whether named or not). This is reflected in the diffs cited as evidence ("members of WP:BIRDS massively canvassed, disrupted ... abused ..."; "certain unbearably tendentious editors refuse to 'accept'", "excessively loud holy-hell-raising be a tiny number of tendentious editors", "disrupting WP for nine years in a tendentious campaign") but also in his response to this request, where he characterizes his actions as "helping protect MOS and thereby Wikipedia's stability and usability from tendentious special interests and their pet peeves". This reflects an absolute "right versus wrong" attitude that is entirely inappropriate not only as an approach to disagreements in a collaborative project generally, but to disagreements about matters of style particularly. In addition, I have had the opportunity, in the course of the AE discussions mentioned above, to observe that this extraordinarily confrontative, personalizing (and long-winded) way of expressing himself is a hallmark of SMcCandlish's approach to disagreements, such that I can safely conclude that the edits reported here are not isolated incidents but part of a consistent behavior pattern. I consider that this behavior is strongly detrimental to the collaborative development and maintenance of the MOS. Consequently, if there are no compelling objections by other uninvolved administrators, I intend to ban SMcCandlish, initially for a year, from making any edits related to the MOS (excluding references to the MOS, as it is then in force, in discussing specific edits to articles). This proposed sanction is not to be taken as disregard for or an endorsement of any problematic conduct by the editors SMcCandlish appears to consider to be his opponents. But any such misconduct by the "other side" would need to be examined in a separate enforcement request, particularly because SMcCandlish's response does not contain diffs of potentially sanctionable behavior on the part of others. Sandstein 12:52, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
This is just a quick response as I must log off quickly, but at first glance I could not support such a sanction. Without going into further detail, my only other comment at this point would be that good faith, competent editors whose skills and value to the project are recognized by other editors in good standing, should only be subject to bans, particularly long bans, as a last resort, and my impression at this stage is that we are far from that point with regard to SMcCandlish. Once again, apologies for the brevity of this response, I will probably have more to say with regard to this case tomorrow. Gatoclass (talk) 14:24, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
My apologies for not getting back to this one sooner, I couldn't find the time yesterday. A review of the discussion in this request thus far indicates no support for a topic ban at this time. I too have read a fair bit of the talk page discussion that led to this request, it read to me mostly like a genuine content dispute. However, I also agree with some of the contributors to this discussion, and with Joy above, that SMcCandlish is still too fond of "commenting on contributor" in his talk page responses. This may simply be a miscommunication issue - SMcCandlish has after all been contributing to MOS discussions for a long period, and probably hasn't fully adjusted yet to the fact that once a topic area becomes subject to discretionary sanctions, comments on contributor are scrutinized far more closely and are always a potential trigger for administrative intervention. I do think, however, that his demeanour on talk pages has improved significantly since the RFA comments that came to attention earlier, and there is no reason to suppose at this point that it cannot continue to improve given the right advice. I am therefore leaning to an advisement with regard to this request, coupled perhaps with a warning that failure to make appropriate changes may lead to sanctions in future. Gatoclass (talk) 05:45, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
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Arbitration enforcement action appeal by POVbrigand
editAppeal declined. Sandstein 07:03, 8 March 2013 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found here. According to the procedures, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action. To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).
Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive117#POVbrigand
Statement by POVbrigandeditI would like to get the chance to show the community that a topic ban is no longer needed. My interest has always been to improve WP, make it more valuable for the readers. I do not want to waste my time or anybody else's time. The appeal contingent that I publicly reveal my old account was discussed here User_talk:Roger_Davies/Archive_26#POVbrigand and as far as I understood no longer required, the account has since been retired.
--POVbrigand (talk) 09:38, 5 March 2013 (UTC) Statement by The Blade of the Northern LightseditApologies for not commenting earlier; I've been completely detached from the normal goings-on around here and had to take some time to refresh my memory on this case. To the extent this appeal is directed at me, I decline it; Sandstein's rationale is essentially mine, so I won't repeat it except to emphasize that the very small number of edits since the imposition of the ban is discouraging. To the extent it's directed at other admins, I would advise them to decline it as well. Being an SPA isn't inherently a bad thing; however, when it's laced with the problems such as those demonstrated in the original thread, there needs to be strong evidence there won't be a recurrence upon allowing an editor back into the topic area. I see very little total editing from POVBrigand since the imposition of the band, and this statement does not address the issues laid out by Sandstein below. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 18:27, 4 March 2013 (UTC) Statement by uninvolved A Question for KnowledgeeditPOVbrigand: You're supposed to demonstrate that your topic ban is no longer needed before filing an appeal. We typically don't give second chances to topic-banned editors unless:
AE: Given the lack of the above, that POVbrigand is apparently an SPA, and that POVbrigand has virtually no contributions to Wikipedia since their topic-ban, I respectfully recommend that the AE admins decline this request. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 18:56, 4 March 2013 (UTC) Statement by IRWolfie-editThis editors constant POV pushing on this topic wasted everyones time (mine included) before he was topic banned. Consider also that this is not POVbrigand's only account, rather it is purely a SPA. This account is specifically to edit Cold Fusion and related articles [4]: "I found out that my account is best described as a Wikipedia:Single-purpose_account. I have / had another account since mid 2004 that I currently do not use. I might use it again after my interest for "cold fusion" goes away." We currently have the fairly weird situation where this editor is topic banned, but we don't know his original account! I find this really puzzling, but one of the conditions for POVbrigand being able to make an appeal was that he reveal his previous account: [5]. There was no consensus at User_talk:Roger_Davies/Archive_26#POVbrigand that the requirement to reveal the account be removed (someone merely expressed their view on it, but that's not the same thing). As an aside, perhaps can an arbcom member perhaps double check his other account to make sure it has not become active again in any future appeal? POVbrigand has broken his topic ban previously, and retiring your account isn't the same as closing it. IRWolfie- (talk) 18:44, 5 March 2013 (UTC) Statement by (involved editor 2)editDiscussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by POVbrigandeditResult of the appeal by POVbrigandedit
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Fyunck(click)
editThe request is dismissed as frivolous. The user who made it, SMcCandlish (talk · contribs), is topic-banned (per WP:TBAN) for one month from everything related to the Manual of Style. Sandstein 18:01, 12 March 2013 (UTC) | ||||
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Request concerning Fyunck(click)edit
@Fyunck(click): I have rescinded this request because the AE admin respondents have concluded that the case is weak. Maybe I even really am flat-out wrong about your posts, too, as you say; if time shows this to be the case, I will owe you an apology. I declined to respond to your rebuttal details because I know AE admins can draw their own conclusions from the diffs (note they're not agreeing with you, only finding that the old diffs are too old and the newer one not actionable), and I'm trying to keep it short, not because I couldn't formulate a response. In reply to your question, I did not examine your editing "ashtray" closely at all to find the evidence I did find, I just looked at your talk page and recent archives of it; that is not in any way unusual or harassing. — SMcCandlish Talk⇒ ɖ⊝כ⊙þ Contrib. 06:07, 11 March 2013 (UTC) @Mr. Stradivarius – Three important points:
If I had said about LittleBenW (or anyone else) what he has said about me (and then you) here, I have no doubt that I would now have a 1-year outright block imposed on me, since that's the SMcCandlish "remedy" Sandstein's proposed/threatened several times for any AGF/NPA violation in any MOS/AT discussion, as if I'm some kind of vandal, and he's stated he does consider AE itself to be within scope. I suppose I am not even permitted to speculate why LittleBenW got a free pass to do the same thing here under the same watch (and in a venue with a huge hatnote warning against personal attacks, an him violating his topic ban to engage in them), interesting as that question might be. It goes nicely with a related question: Why am I being raked over the coals so intently, aside from being allowed to be a personal-attacks target for days in a row, when I'm actually trying to follow the increasingly stringent "use the appropriate dispute resolution forum and do not get into personalizing squabbles on talk pages, or else" admonitions WP is full of lately? — SMcCandlish Talk⇒ ɖ⊝כ⊙þ Contrib. 12:50, 12 March 2013 (UTC) PS: I have looked and looked, and the only noteworthy interaction I can find between me and Fyunck(click) heretofore is this side discussion in an RfC that you also participated in. While Fyunck and I were argumentative with each other, it was short, and even included me apologizing for ascribing someone else's edit to Fyunck by mistake, and Fyunck accepting the apology. Not much of a basis for a "grudge" assumption, right? — SMcCandlish Talk⇒ ɖ⊝כ⊙þ Contrib. 13:42, 12 March 2013 (UTC) @Any uninvolved admin: Please just close this with nothing against Fyunck(click), since that seems to be the consensus, and a warning toward me against filing poor AE requests, if you feel one is actually warranted after I've already clearly gotten that point and understood that my request was actually much weaker than I thought when filing it (my first time ever making an AE request, and probably my last due to the intensely personalized hostile reception I received from one admin here, I might add). All this legalistic process is a frustrating time-sink for everyone. I've been wondering for several days why this is still open, since AE collectively determined I failed to present an adequate case almost immediately after I opened this request, and I've conceded that several times. There's multiple oppositions registered to blocking me, and not even a consensus to short-term topic-ban me, and now concerns raised about why a long-term productive editor with a clean block record is being considered for treatment like an inveterate disruptor, absent any actual evidence of bad faith, and even a showing of good faith in rescinding the AE request. Happening to be on the "losing" side of an AE request is not grounds for punitive sanctioning. Unwarranted sanctions that raise serious questions and concerns, as those proposed here already have, do not have a legitimate deterrent/preventative effect, but simply lead to more disputation and process, because they almost inevitably lead to appeals. — SMcCandlish Talk⇒ ɖ⊝כ⊙þ Contrib. 12:57, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
Discussion concerning Fyunck(click)editStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Fyunck(click)editWow. I'm not exactly sure where the heck this came from... sort of out of the blue. In an ongoing discussion at Wikipedia_talk:Article_titles#Use_of_accent_marks_in_titles I give a single opinion on an unsettled debate and out shoots an Arbitration Enforcement. I checked out SMcCandlish because of this and see he was admonished just the other day so I guess the frustration is to take it out on me. Under sanction/remedy to be enforced I have no idea what Mr. SMcCandlish is talking about - so no comment.
Disclosure: I may disagree with SMcCandlish's diacritics position on both logical and policy grounds, but not enough to bully or intimidate as he is doing to me now. And I can't help what others write on my page but I do try to answer to the best of my ability. If someone wants to cherry pick those answers without the context that goes with them then there's not a lot I can do. (The remainder of the response has been removed by a reviewing administrator because it exceeded the 500 word limit indicated at the beginning of the section. Sandstein 07:12, 8 March 2013 (UTC)) Fyunck(click) (talk) 21:00, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
Followup I have to say the further statements by SMcCandlish (many misleading ones at that) make me really wonder what I ever did to him to make him so vitriol towards me. I only recall a couple times where we were on different ends of a diacritic debate... and now I see he has written more about me. I actually came here to ask that he just apologize to me and promise never to do this to me again, and let it go with a simple warning... that's the way I wish wikipedia would work. But now after reading more and more statements I begin to wonder if there is something underlying this? His attitude seems to be "oh well, I brought Fyunck here and it didn't work, no harm done." No "I'm sorry", no "boy did I make a mistake that will never happen again." I wish if something wasn't clear that SMcCandlish would have just asked me about it nicely on my talk page... it's not like I don't try to answer anything anyone writes there (except for one or two who I've had to have administrators deal with). But to open up my page and see I'd been dragged here, when I knew I hadn't argued with anyone for awhile, makes me wonder... will this happen to me again by SMcCandlish? Has he done this to anyone else with no remorse? I sure hope not, and I would hope a warning would work, but it makes me look over my shoulder now. Fyunck(click) (talk) 05:03, 11 March 2013 (UTC) Statement by LittleBenWeditThe essence of this dispute overlaps with the appeal that I intend to file against my topic ban, so I will provide some relevant information and links:
Statement by In ictu oculieditUser SMcCandlish has a virgin block log and I believe a block here would be inappropriate/overkill for 2 reasons:
The 100 leads and variants with the Roberto Argüello (born 12 May 1963) and known professionally as Roberto Arguello formula are counter the letter of RfC in that the 100 leads do "insist on no-diacritics names, based on an organisation's rule." - further these 100 leads have been largely added after the RfC in response to RfC and RMs and around 20 separate editors have tried to revert the formula across these 100 articles, with Fyunck reverting in all cases. Therefore on point(2) although the request was malformed I do not think a block can be given to an editor with a virgin record for seeing an editor already disregarding an RfC close on 100 articles to make comment dismissing the same consensus with or without the nationality addition: "Tennis doesn't use them.... The only place I've seen huge amounts of diacritics is here on wikipedia, but with so many non-English-first editors these days that shift is to be expected." As far as linking to WP:BOLLOCKS we don't generally block editors for linking to an existing WP:SHORTCUT no matter how crass. As far as Fyunck, I also don't see the need to block/sanction, until someone formally says to him, "yes that's part of the RfC close." In ictu oculi (talk) 12:51, 11 March 2013 (UTC) Statement by (username)editResult concerning Fyunck(click)editThis section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above. I've shortened the request to the extent it exceeded the 500 word limit indicated at the beginning of the section. Indicating why a warning or notice is required should well be doable within 500 words. SMcCandlish may re-submit the request in a shortened version if he does so before Fyunck(click) responds to it. I'm waiting for a statement by Fyunck(click) before commenting on the merits. Sandstein 19:38, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
Regarding the issue of involvement, I'm not sure whether closing an RFC with a particular finding makes one "involved" or not, I would say not normally; if there was a question of conflict of interest, it might be, but I am not aware of the particular circumstances of the RFC in question and I doubt it would help resolve this request to go looking into it here.
OK, it seems nobody else wants to close this, and we're back in wall-of-text territory, so I'll do it. Per the discussion above, for continued battleground-like conduct in disputes about the manual of style, as manifested notably in the recent requests of 24 February 2013 and 27 January 2013 and in this frivolous and vexatious request, SMcCandlish is topic-banned (per WP:TBAN) for one month from everything related to the Manual of Style and its components, except for references to the MOS that may be necessary to explain any articlespace edits he makes. Sandstein 18:01, 12 March 2013 (UTC) |
Soosim
editSoosim blocked four days for violation of the ARBPIA 1RR on two different articles. EdJohnston (talk) 20:38, 12 March 2013 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Discussion concerning SoosimeditStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Soosimedithi all - i see there has been some discussion here since yesterday. i apologize for not answering right away. i started to and then was unable to be at my computer until now (36 hours later). i would like to say the following: a) nomo was waiting for me to screw up. fine. i screwed up, according to the rules. i was 23 hours and not 25. (though 25 can also be like 24 under certain circumstances, right?). i have an 'excuse', but it is irrelevant. and yes, the two edits were two very different items, but apparently that is irrelvant as well. b) i am very shocked at nomo's wholesale categorization of me "serious concern about the way Soosim has been adding poorly sourced negative material to the BLPs of activists on the left of the I/P conflict". i have made thousands of edits, and there are two questionable ones (questionable according to nomo). i will simply say that the greta berlin edit was one which can be allowed since the source was specific and knowledgable. after it was reverted, i left it alone. didn't fight it, didn't edit war. period. and for the siegelman edit, i was clarifying content that was already there. didn't add what nomo thinks. c) and if i may, nomo also has been a 1RR violater on the same exact page. i think this shows it: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Amiram_Goldblum&diff=542762926&oldid=542536262 - but, i will not "take nomo to AE" because in my 5+ years of wiki editing, i haven't done that. i prefer to talk on the talk pages, work things out. you ask my 'natural' sparring partners about that (sean.hoyland, malik, dlv, etc.). maybe i need to be more 'vicious', but i doubt i will head in that direction. thanks for listening. @EdJohnston: ed - if i may....a) berlin: i used a piece written by the person themselves. i wasn't using mondoweiss as a RS, but rather the article itself. if joe shmoe writes an article, it is valid for joe shmoe's opinion only, correct? did i miss something? ; b) camera - i didn't put that on the page. it was already there, and i think i edited it and added material to make it more acceptable. if it wasn't a good edit (the adding about the LA times, i think), then it can be removed. let me know what you think. thanks. Soosim (talk) 05:56, 11 March 2013 (UTC) @ed - i think 4 days is a bit harsh.....the last time was december 2011. i don't deny that i am overzealous and often get dragged in. and most of the time (zero times in the last 14 months) i am pretty good about it. i thought your original call for 48 hours was fair. Soosim (talk) 05:28, 12 March 2013 (UTC) Statement by Gatoclassedit@Sandstein: In response to your queries, the 1RR discussion was led by admins then active at AE and was considered an AE remedy. Since AE admins are explicity given the discretion to impose remedies (hence "discretionary sanctions"), I'm sure they were seen as having the power to do so, but regardless, the 1RR restriction is by now long accepted as an ARBPIA remedy. With regard to Soosim, AFAICT he has been a regular contributor to I-P conflict-related pages since 2008, and has himself been the subject of AE requests in the past, so it is practically inconceivable that he would not be unaware of the 1RR restriction after all this time. Gatoclass (talk) 17:45, 8 March 2013 (UTC)
Statement by (username)editResult concerning SoosimeditThis section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above. Could someone who was around then explain how Wikipedia:ARBPIA#General 1RR restriction is a restriction enforceable under Arbitration Committee authority? The case page states "Per community discussion and decision at Wikipedia:WikiProject Arbitration Enforcement/Israel-Palestine articles", but this board is not for enforcing community decisions, only arbitral ones. If the 1RR restriction is to be considered a discretionary sanction (and I'm not sure that it can be, since it neither invokes the arbitral decision's authority nor is it labeled as being imposed by a clearly identified uninvolved administrator), the question would remain as to how we know that Soosim was made aware of the restriction's existence. Sandstein 17:02, 8 March 2013 (UTC)
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Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Brandmeister
editThe duration of Brandmeister's topic ban has been reduced to six months. EdJohnston (talk) 14:40, 22 March 2013 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Statement by BrandmeistereditI would like to request a review of my topic ban, imposed on February 10, 2013 in the aforementioned AE section. The edit, for which I have been reported and sanctioned, was merely a removal of contradiction within the article's text (which I noted in the edit summary) and the edit was ultimately restored by mediator Golbez. Up until now the dissenting users themselves have no concerns at the related talk page thread, which I started on February 4. Also I would like to note that the previous report on me was dishonest as it was made by account which subsequently turned out to be a sock. In his report that account, Vandorenfm, mentioned four other allegedly unrelated editors, with whom I had interacted (Aram-van, Gorzaim, Vandorenfm and Xebulon). All of them also turned out later to be socks, which likely tried to use the arbitration noticeboard as an instrument to overcome the content disputes. User:Zimmarod, who reported me this time, displays the behaviour of a dormant single-purpose account, as evidenced by his/her contributions, that are almost exclusively within the Armenia-Azerbaijan field. Considering that and the fact that the Armenia-Azerbaijan topics constitute an insignificant part of my contributions, I believe that my two-year topic ban is inappropriately severe and can be reviewed. I am ready to provide any further details if necessary. Brandmeistertalk 10:29, 10 March 2013 (UTC) @ Sandstein I have not wrote above, that Zimmarod was a sock. I wrote, that he behaves like WP:SPA, which does not neccessarily mean that he is a sock. Brandmeistertalk 19:13, 10 March 2013 (UTC) Statement by Lord RoemeditI have no objection to reducing the ban duration, per the comment in the discussion section below (which I believe suggests shrinking from two years to one). If this needs to be done by me, I'll gladly do it. Otherwise, I authorize any other uninvolved admin to adjust that time without objection from me, if that indeed is the consensus here. --Lord Roem ~ (talk) 07:53, 11 March 2013 (UTC) Statement by (involved editor 1)editStatement by (involved editor 2)editDiscussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by BrandmeistereditStatement by The Devil's AdvocateeditSandstein, Brand's comment about sockpuppets filing a report against him is in reference to a report filed by User:Vandorenfm in February of 2011, which resulted in a year-long topic ban. As you can see, that account was eventually found to be a sockpuppet of another editor. The other two accounts were also blocked as sockpuppets, one being a sockpuppet of the same editor who operated Vandorenfm. I think the current sanction is extremely excessive in light of those facts and given the very limited legitimate evidence provided in this latest case.--The Devil's Advocate tlk. cntrb. 21:30, 10 March 2013 (UTC) The two-year length of the current topic ban was suggested because of there having been a previous one-year topic ban so it does have relevance to the current sanction.--The Devil's Advocate tlk. cntrb. 21:56, 10 March 2013 (UTC) @KC When you have escalating sanctions for editors with de-escalating conduct you are sending the message that only perfection will be accepted after you have a black mark. That the one-year topic ban was primarily the product of manipulation by abusive sockmasters should and does matter.--The Devil's Advocate tlk. cntrb. 20:34, 18 March 2013 (UTC) Statement by GrandmastereditI would like to support the request by Brandmeister. His 2 year topic ban is considered to be an escalation of his previous 1 year topic ban, but one should take into the account that the first ban was not a correct one. If we look into its history, the complaint against Brandmeister was made by User:Vandorenfm, a sock of the banned user. See here: [7] Note the complaint of the sock: The immediate concern is his editing of the article on Caucasian Albania, where User:Twilight Chill continues waging an edit war against 5 (five) other unrelated editors (Aram-van, Gorzaim, Vandorenfm, MarshallBagramyan, Xebulon). As Brandmeister noted above, 4 of 5 accounts that Vandorenfm mentioned back then turned out later to be socks (User:Aram-van, User:Gorzaim, User:Vandorenfm, and User:Xebulon). So group of sock accounts tag teamed against an established editor with tens of thousands of useful contribs, and then reported him to get him banned. That plan worked back then, but considering that the sock accounts were later exposed, I believe that first ban should be overturned and discounted, because the banned user is not allowed to make any contribs to Wikipedia, including filing enforcement reports at this board, and any contribs by the banned users and their socks must be reverted on spot without consideration to their merits. Therefore Brandmeister did not violate any rules by reverting socks, and should not have been banned on the basis of the report by a sock account. Now if we look into the present topic ban, we can see that situation appears to be similar to that that led to the first ban. Brandmeister was alone against a group of accounts with less that 500 edits each, which appeared one after another after a long absence to rv the article Shusha. And I'm not the only one who thinks that the activity of Zimmarod, Oliveriki and 517design in the article Shusha looks very suspicious. Sandstein agreed "that the history of the article gives the impression that sock- or meatpuppetry may be involved". [8] Golbez also stated that he believed Zimmarod could be a sock account. [9] [10] Plus Brandmeister was the only one who attempted to discuss and left a comment at talk, while accounts reverting him never bothered to join the discussion. In a situation like this, I don't think that a topic ban (especially such a long one) is justified. Grandmaster 23:30, 10 March 2013 (UTC) With regard to the relevance of other editors being socks to misconduct by Brandmeister. I think there's a relevance, due to the reasons that I mentioned before, i.e. banned users cannot file reports at this board. By supporting that old 1 year ban we admit that banned users can get away with filing reports here in violation of their ban. Also, if you look at the report by Vandorenfm, he provided 4 diffs of edit warring by Brandmeister, but all 4 refer to reverting sock accounts. According to WP:BAN, edits by banned users must be reverted without consideration to their quality, so there was no violation by Brandmeister when he reverted sock accounts. Therefore in my opinion the ban in 2011 was not a correct one, and should not be taken into consideration when making a decision about the present ban. Grandmaster 10:35, 15 March 2013 (UTC) Statement by ZimmarodeditI suggest to ignore Brandmeister's request. He was under sanctions several times, as discussed here, and a better decision would perhaps be to ban him permanently. I am also troubled to see that Grandmaster and Brandmeister continue their accusations against me despite multiple warnings made just recently to stop accusations of socking/meating, etc. or use more proper venues for such discussions. I took a look into the issue of sock accusations against Vandorenfm/Xebulon/Gorzaim and it seems these folks were all banned without evidence (especially Gorzaim) as sysops came under heavy pressure from repeated bad-faith SPIs which numbed the administrator senses. Grandmaster misleads the public when he states that Brandmeister was making his reverts in the past after Vandorenfm/Xebulon were accused in being socks; not true - he was reverting before they were banned. The administrator simply caved in under the barrage of such attacks. So, the entire line of logic is flawed from start. And making parallels between Vandorenfm/Xebulon/Gorzaim and the recent edits on the Shusha page is baseless. Overall, a weak attempt to salvage an unsalvageable case. Zimmarod (talk) 17:10, 16 March 2013 (UTC) Result of the appeal by Brandmeisteredit
I wasn't going to comment on this one but since nobody else has for a day or two, I think I will. I have never been altogether comfortable with the "escalating sanctions" model recommended at some dispute resolution pages (though no longer, it seems, under the wording of the standard discretionary sanctions). The escalating model in my view is akin to the "three strikes and you're out" laws in some US states, where a miscreant can end up with a life sentence for stealing a pizza. Although it is certainly appropriate to utilize the escalating model in some circumstances, as a general rule I am more comfortable with the notion of applying a sanction proportionate to the offence. In this case, my impression is that Lord Roem felt obliged to lay an extended sanction in line with the aforementioned escalating sanctions model, resulting in a two-year ban, but it seems no administrator here really believes the offences were that egregious. In these circumstances, I too would probably favour a reduction to a more proportionate level, particularly since Brandmeister's previous case appears to have been engineered in part by a since banished sockpuppet. Given that the effective length of any topic ban, if I am not mistaken, is six months (at which time a user can appeal), I would tentatively suggest a reduction to three months this time around. Gatoclass (talk) 10:57, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
It would be useful to get some more input here, anyone else have a comment? Gatoclass (talk) 11:32, 16 March 2013 (UTC)
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Rich Farmbrough
editRich Farmbrough is blocked for the duration of one year. Sandstein 23:05, 25 March 2013 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Rich Farmbroughedit
I have filed this AE request for what may seem a relatively minor breach because it is telling of the way this editor is working, and comes so soon after the last block for violating the same restriction expired. Furthermore, it is but one in a series of low-quality edits, but the only one that is undoubtedly caused by semi-automated editing. This includes [11], an edit to an article that was the source of his previous AE block (and which alerted me now to his edits) which had as main result that the ref section had two of those big red errors in it. Both the Mohan Deep edit and the List edit were not corrected by Rich Farmbrough afterwards, so certainly in the case of that list, not even the most basic check of whether an edit had the desired result or undesired side effects was made (the only value of that list edit was in adding those refs, so if those don't appear but produce errors instead, it is hardly an improvement...). Fram (talk) 10:29, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
Discussion concerning Rich FarmbrougheditStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Rich FarmbrougheditStatement by (username)editResult concerning Rich FarmbrougheditThis section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above. Instead of responding to this enforcement request, Rich Farmbrough has made a request for amendment asking the Arbitration Committee to lift the restriction that is to be enforced here. I'll ask arbitrators there whether they would like us to stay the processing of this enforcement request until the amendment request is disposed of.Separately, I note that Rich Farmbrough has, on 14:08, 25 March 2013 (i.e., after this enforcement request was made) edited List of Other Backward Classes in a way that at first glance appears to be automated. I ask Rich Farmbrough to address this edit also in any reply he may choose to make. Sandstein 16:59, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
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Volunteer Marek
editVolunteer Marek and Russavia are banned from interacting with each other. Russavia is blocked for two weeks for violating his Eastern Europe topic ban. Sandstein 07:05, 28 March 2013 (UTC) | ||
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. | ||
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Volunteer Marekedit
I initially had this particular interaction ban breach raised with User:Timotheus_Canens around 24 hours after the breach itself, and I was advised it would be dealt with. Arbcom being Arbcom, and with other things taking their attention, I assumed it was still in their hands. But as this and AGK's comments this is not something that they would be dealing with, and for it to be brought here for enforcement. I sincerely hope that this will be taken into consideration by admins here in reviewing this request, and will not declare this request to be stale, and deal with the issue. Arbcom interaction bans during blocks are still active, as this demonstrates. As the motion was only between User:Nug and I, and because VM also clearly commented at the motion discussion, he is fully aware that the interaction ban between him and I is still in place.
Discussion concerning Volunteer MarekeditStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Statement by Volunteer MarekeditHi Sandstein et al. I will do my best to respond promptly, but please allow me a bit of time. I should be able to write up and post a comment/reply by tonight, if not earlier.Volunteer Marek 19:03, 25 March 2013 (UTC) Some of the commentators have already hit upon the main points regarding this request below. In particular the first comment by The Devil's Advocate, one of the comments by Collect (which was removed - though it seemed germane to me), the comment by Mathsci, by Only in Death, by Nug and by Hullaboo Wolfowitz are all pertinent and on topic. Regardless, since I started writing this up before some of these comments were made (or moved, or removed etc), I will probably reiterate some of the same points. First
Hence, it might be best to first inquire of the ArbCom as to whether this report is actually appropriate for AE or is it something they wish to/have dealt with. Second
Third
Fourth
Fifth In light of the above, it is particularly significant that, best as I can tell, Russavia's unblock/appeal was predicated upon good behavior. This presumably means not starting up with the Polandball stuff again, not violating his Eastern European topic ban (which he actually did violate recently, after this report, [25]) and especially NOT GOING BACK to the old battlegrounds. This report is the quintessential example of Russavia IMMEDIATELY restarting the old battlegrounds, along with vague references to his "agendas" [26]. Amusingly (or not) enough, since his unblock Russavia has already managed to accumulate several… "final warnings":
That's pretty much the context of this report. Fially
As Collect said below (in a comment for some reason removed), the granting of his appeal could have been a great opportunity for Russavia to start with a tabula rasa, bury old grudges and forget old battlegrounds. I was and still am certainly hoping for that and will be quite happy to do my part if he chooses to take that path, rather than his present one, by staying out of his way. Volunteer Marek 18:46, 26 March 2013 (UTC) Statement by The Devil's AdvocateeditThe problem here is that Marek made the comment while Russavia was blocked and the block was set to expire months later with his appeal private so there is no reason to believe Marek would have thought that Russavia would be unblocked soon (indeed his comment suggests he was unaware). How interaction bans apply during a long block is not exactly a simple question. My belief is that such restrictions exist to prevent the two parties from interacting in a confrontational fashion and so enforcing them during long-duration blocks is not desirable as it is effectively punitive, though extreme cases can be different. I don't think this case is that extreme.--The Devil's Advocate tlk. cntrb. 23:13, 24 March 2013 (UTC) @Sandstein Marek and Russavia have a mutual interaction ban per a subsequent arbitration case.--The Devil's Advocate tlk. cntrb. 23:30, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
Statement by CollecteditThis statement has been removed by the undersigned administrator as off-topic because it is not related to conduct that is the subject of this request for enforcement, and/or does not contain evidence of recent sanctionable misconduct by editors that are parties to this request. Sandstein 23:58, 24 March 2013 (UTC) Noting that germane material, in the opinion of the poster, was also removed, including diffs showing an apparent violation of the interaction ban by Russavia on Wikipedia, and the use of Wikipedia email to discuss VM, also contrary to the interaction ban. Collect (talk) 11:04, 25 March 2013 (UTC) Statement by Malick78editPart of this statement has been removed by the undersigned administrator as off-topic because it is not related to conduct that is the subject of this request for enforcement, and/or does not contain evidence of recent sanctionable misconduct by editors that are parties to this request. Sandstein 23:44, 24 March 2013 (UTC) Back to the discussion though: VM was plainly goading Russavia against the spirit of the interaction ban. So ban VM. Malick78 (talk) 23:34, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
Statement by MathscieditThere seem to be mitigating factors for both Russavia and Volunteer Marek. It seems that Russavia, after his long absence, was not fully aware of the two-way interaction ban with Volunteer Marek. His statements about off-wiki events either in emails or on wikipediocracy are however irrelevant to this request. (Although it is irrelevant, I do not believe Volunteer Marek supported the off-wiki harassment of Russavia by certain agents on wikipediocracy.) Volunteer Marek made his comments while he was under the impression that Russavia was still in the midst of a year-long AE ban imposed by WGFinley that was due to expire in May 2013. It is not clear that if editors are banned, they cannot be mentioned by those subject to an interaction ban. I assume for example that in the case of William M. Conolley, nothing would happen to him if he made a statement about Abd who is now indefinitely banned by arbcom from wikipedia. That is of course a very extreme case. At the time of the unforeseen unblock there was widespread confusion on wikipedia concerning wikipediocracy and Russavia. Volunteer Marek allowed himself to be caught up into that. The off-hand comments he made in a discussion on Pollandball jokes were unfortunate, but should be viewed in the context of that general confusion/drama. The particular circumstances, including the timing of the unblock and the general confusion created by the wikipediocracy furore, seem to be mitigating factors for both parties and should diminish any sanctions being considered. Probably something more than a warning is required for both parties. Mathsci (talk) 00:31, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
Statement by Delicious carbuncleeditI'm not involved in this case, but Russavia's statement "VM accuses me abuse of tools on Commons because I blocked an infamous Wikipedia troll for doing what trolls do best - the troll being a fellow member of the off-wiki harassment site" apparently refers to me, since I am the editor Volunteer Marek asking to be unblocked. This is a clear personal attack and a return to the battleground mentality that Russavia demonstrated prior to his ban. Can someone please ask Russavia to strike it (and block him for the personal attack if he refuses)? Thanks. Delicious carbuncle (talk) 03:48, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
Statement by Only in deatheditTwo small points.
Statement by Estlandia (Miacek)editI think that given Russavia's shortening of his statement at the moment we need to concentrate on the iBan breach by Volunteer Marek. The infringement was obvious and it is only complicated by the fact that he has been previously found to have harassed Russavia (and blocked for such behaviour) plus, indeed, the recent revelations that he's been keen on getting Russavia banned whatever the means.--Miacek and his crime-fighting dog (woof!) 13:55, 25 March 2013 (UTC) Statement by NugeditDuring the discussion regarding the lifting of my interaction ban[31], several admins commented on obsolescence of this last remaining EEML remedy which is now over three years old. John Carter mentioned the senselessness of enforcing iBans when one of the parties were site banned as it gives the site banned party undue control. EdJohnston recommended the Committee shoud pass a motion to lift all remaining bans and restrictions from the original WP:EEML case as it was now obsolete. Some of the Arbtrators thought that maintaining an iBan would save strife if Russavia returns, but now the iBan itself seems to be the cause of strife rather than being a safe guard. When VM commented on Jimbo's talk page there is no reason to believe Marek would have thought that Russavia would be unblocked soon. If this comment on Jimbo's talk page was so egregious, one has to wonder why it has taken Russavia so long to lodge a AE report or to complain to Timotheus Canens on March 24th[32] weeks after the event. Russavia's return seems to have been extremely drama filled with people being indef banned and admins desysopped, do we need yet more drama? Russavia and I were able to bury the hatchet, there is no reason why he and VM could do the same but the AE report doesn't help that process. Given that EdJohnston and some of the Arbs in my amendment request pointed out that discretionary sanctions still apply, the admins patrolling here have the discretion to suspend this iBan and simply close this with an appropriate warning to both parties. Let's not use this relic from the past to perpetuate old conflicts. --Nug (talk) 10:51, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
Statement by Hullaballoo Wolfowitzedit1. Jimbo Wales' talk page is used as a forum for discussion as part of legitimate and necessary dispute resolution, often centered on contested matters of policy rather than individualized disputes. Marek's comments there appear to be good faith efforts to participate in such a discussion. Therefore, I believe it falls outside the terms of the interaction ban. 2. Arbcom took the unusual step of rescinding rather than merely "lifting" the topic ban on Marek. "Rescind," as the article on Rescission states, carries the connotation of wiping an action out "(as if it never existed), rendering it void ab initio." That would mean that Marek would no have fallen under the interaction ban, which did not name him, but referred instead to all editors sanctioned. If this was not the Committee's intent, it should modify its action prospectively, but no sanctions against Marek should be enforced based on a ruling which does not clearly allow them. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 12:23, 26 March 2013 (UTC) 3. As for Russavia, he continues his unhappy practice of spreading lighter fluid on troubled waters, then tossing lit matches into it, and should be subject to whatever sanctions are appreopriate. WP is not his battleground. Statement by (username)editI believe this request speaks for itself. Russavia is trying to circumnavigate his topic ban by asking another user to edit for him "if aspects might touch on areas covered by said topic ban". Result concerning Volunteer MarekeditThis section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above. Volunteer Marek resulteditThe request appears to be actionable at first glance, not only as an interaction ban violation, but also because of the content of the edit submitted as evidence, which appears to me to be thoroughly at odds with the conduct principles the Committee formulated at WP:ASPERSIONS. But I'm waiting for a statement by Volunteer Marek. Sandstein 23:10, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
Russavia resulteditI'm concerned that in making this request for enforcement, Russavia has gone beyond what is necessary to call attention to a violation of an interaction ban, and has additionally made very serious allegations of misconduct against Volunteer Marek, such as "long-term harassment", without providing recent and actionable evidence (e.g. in the forms of diffs) for these allegations. This is potentially problematic (see, also, WP:ASPERSIONS), and is likely to rekindle the conflict which the interaction ban was apparently intended to quell. Additionally, I note that the interaction ban imposed in WP:EEML#Editors restricted is unilateral – that is, according to its wording, it only restricts certain editors from interacting with Russavia, but not Russavia from interacting with these editors. I have serious doubts that unilateral interaction bans such as this are practical, as this request shows. Consequently, I consider that we should (as a discretionary sanction) extend the interaction ban to be bilateral, such that it also covers interactions by Russavia with the other editors referred to in the Committee's ban. I invite comments by my colleagues about this. Sandstein 23:10, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
Only in death resulteditThere was some talk above about sanctioning this user for using the term "racist" inappropriately. This term is often used loosely to describe other kinds of prejudice other than those based strictly on race. Our own article on racism notes: "Some definitions of racism also include discriminatory behaviors and beliefs based on cultural, national, ethnic, caste, or religious stereotypes." I don't think the definition of the term is tight enough to view this as being "inaccurately accusing another editor of racist behavior". ErikHaugen (talk | contribs) 17:36, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
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