Talk:Hor-Aha

Starting Talk:

Hor-Aha's name

The description in the first paragraph, of Hor-Aha's name, would yield something along the lines of: "Hor(us), the Fighter", or "the Warrior Hor(us)". Don't forget, his name is really, Ancient Egyptian language: "Hor(us)-Aha", pronounced as the people pronounced it.
(I would assume the word "warrior" is implied in his choice of names, maybe related to the conditions, his birth-rite, or his predilections.) (from the SonoranDesert of ArizonaUSA...--Mmcannis (talk) 01:09, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

• Is it not a mistake to include the Horus element in the pharaoh's name? The royal name was made up of two elements: (1) the Horus-name and (2) the nbtwy-name. Both elements are rarely found together (for example, the Turin and Abydos king lists only show the nbtwy-names for the earliest dynasties). But it is certainly not Egyptological convention to include the prefix when discussing the names of pharaohs. Otherwise, the name of Narmer should be Hor(us)-Narmer, Djer - Hor(us)-Djer etc. In any event, leading sources (e.g. Lloyd (1993)) on the names of the early pharaohs (and in particular on the identity of Menes (a nbtwy-name)) refer to Aha, not Hor-Aha. Please can we rename the page Aha (pharaoh)? gergis (talk) 17:47, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Even if it is a mistake I think we have to go with the most commonly used and recognised name. We don't know for certain with the early pharaohs; you know like pharaoh Narmer's name is actually written "catfish chisel", sometimes he is referred to as "Catfish chisel" but someone decided it was pronounced Nar-mer and convention has gone with that even if incorrect, so that's what we use. But in the case of his predecessor Scorpion, there is apparently less certainty about the EGyptian pronunciation so he is usually just called king Scorpion.. Til Eulenspiegel (talk) 18:11, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Would anyone object to me adding "(or Aha)" after Hor-Aha in the first line of the article? For examples of usage of the alternative name in academic circles please see Lloyd (1993) or Edwards (1977). gergis (talk) 08:41, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

Sounds reasonable to me. We should always try to include any alternate names that are in use, of course, and perhaps also make redirects to the most common name. Til Eulenspiegel (talk) 10:51, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

Infobox genealogy

The current reference to Hor-Aha's father in the Infobox should be removed. While mainstream Egyptological consensus agrees that Hor-Aha was preceded as pharaoh by Narmer / Menes, where is the evidence that Narmer was his father? Even on the assumption that Hor-Aha is the second pharaoh, and Narmer / Menes the first pharaoh of Dynasty I (i.e. the same dynasty and therefore presumably the same family), might Narmer not be Hor-Aha's uncle, brother, a more distant kinsman or even someone utterly unrelated? In any event, the reference used to support the claim that Hor-Aha's mother was Neithhotep is merely speculative about Narmer being her husband.

Certainly, without a clear reference supporting the claim, the Father field of the Infobox should be left blank. It would be better to discuss possible genealogies and pharaonic succession in the main text and leave speculative conclusions out of the Infobox.

I agree. Infoboxes can be dangerous, they at times take complex information and simplify it too far. See my userpage for my view on them. I particularly hate ANE dates in them. Dougweller (talk) 11:06, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

First pharaoh

The late prof. WB Emery points out that no artifacts definitely dating to Narmer have yet been found further north than Tarkhan. Narmer probably died before the final conquest of the north.

Also that Hor Aha had a large tomb at both Abydos and Sakkara but Narmer had only a modest tomb at Abydos. Clearly HorAha had access to greater resources than Narmer and seems to have stronger claim to be the first pharaoh.