Talk:Monggeumpo Taryeong/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Mike Christie (talk · contribs) 09:56, 3 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I'll review this. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 09:56, 3 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Images are appropriately tagged; File:Sitting Yi I.jpg has no original publication date, but I'll take it on faith that it is as old as it appears to be. I'm unable to properly evaluate the Korean sources but can't see anything obviously unreliable.

"became more widely popular in the late Joseon Dynasty due to social change": what does "due to social change" mean?
- Mike Christie Unfortunately, the sources don't elaborate further, my only guess would be events that happened in the late Joseon Dynasty, such as Western appearance, and the emergence of Japan.
  We shouldn't include material we don't understand. I would just cut the phrase. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 11:56, 15 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  - Could we keep it? Even though it doesn't explain completely its better than not having it at all.
    Can you quote what the source says? I think it might be OK if we quote it directly but I'd like to see what the source's wording is. Mike Christie

(talk - contribs - library) 18:39, 16 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

- - What I put is almost exactly what the source says: 조선 후기 사회적 변동으로 도시의 유흥문화 속에서 다양한 통속민요가 유행하기 시작하는데 몽금포타령도 이때 만들어져 불린 노래이다. / "Due to the social change in the late Joseon Dynasty, various popular folk songs started to become popular in the city's entertainment culture, and Monggeum Potaryeong was also created and sung at this time."
"The song's verses were first confirmed in": what does "confirmed" refer to? First time the lyrics were written down?
- It means it was the first time they were able to validate the lyrics of the song.
  Still not clear what you mean -- what does it mean to validate lyrics? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 11:56, 15 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  - The song's existence was known, but the lyrics were first found and confirmed in the book.
    I'm still not sure what this really means. If a song is known, the lyrics are known. If the song is representative, as the lead says, then it can't be the case that this is a rare song that musicologists unearthed that nobody knew the lyrics too. What exactly does the source say? Mike Christie (talk -

contribs - library) 18:39, 16 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

- - The source doesn't elaborate any further, I just used a synonym for confirmed. I'm assuming it means the existence of the song was known as people sang it, (oral tradition) but the first written record of lyrics were first found in the book. I get why this is confusing, sorry.
~~"The verses are performed in four jangdans and the refrain in two jangdans": what does "jangdan" mean? Is there an article we could link to?~~
- I've linked an article to other korean words such as jangdan, if I linked it here it would be a repeat. Wikipedia unfortunately doesn't have a page on Jangdans, they are essentially musical beats/tempo.
  Could we put a word or two of explanation in parentheses? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 11:56, 15 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  - Done
~~"The lyrics and refrain of the song may slightly differ in each version": suggest "There are multiple versions of the song, with slightly differing lyrics and refrain".~~
- You would be correct.
  Looks like you didn't make this change? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 11:56, 15 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  - Done
~~"Monggeumpo Harbor is situated on a beach that extends 4,000 km (2,500 mi)": This seems unlikely as the entire Korean peninsula is only about 600 km long.~~
- I think I've read this wrong, I'll delete it because I don't think it fits here.
  Again looks like this is not changed. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 11:56, 15 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  - Done
"The Jangsanggot (장산곶; 長山串) mountain range was named": This paragraph (the last sentence of which is uncited) seems off-topic -- the song is about the harbor, not the mountain range or the navy, and the translation of bongjuk is given in the "Lyrics" section.
- Maybe so, I'll remove the information about the mountain range and move the bongjuk translation.
  And again not changed. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 11:56, 15 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  - Done
    What I meant was that this: "The Jangsanggot (장산곶; 長山串) mountain range was named from its description as extending deep into the Yellow Sea (Seohae, 서해).[5] In the Joseon Dynasty, Arangpoyeong (아랑포영) and Jonipojin (조니포진) were installed at the harbor, and it served as an important, strategic location for national defense when Joseon Navy forces were deployed.[5] Gumipo [ko] is located to the southeast of Monggeumpo; American missionary Etherwood first discovered and developed the sacred scenery of that place." all seems irrelevant. The song is about the harbour, but that doesn't mean we need the history of the harbour in the article. And why are we explaining what bongjugeul badattda and bongjuk mean? Neither word appears to be in the translated section. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 18:39, 16 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

-- Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 11:14, 3 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

- - - Bongjugeul Badattda = 봉죽을 받았다, It's in the Korean portion of the lyrics. I disagree, the description/history of the harbor sets up the song, and the harbor wouldn't deserve its own wikipedia page, so I think it being here fits, although if you insist I will get rid of it.

Mike Christie Thanks for taking up this article! I know people were avoiding it because it has entirely Korean sources. Do you mind if I take to fixing it this coming week? I'm a little busy at the moment. Haiiya (talk) (contribs) 17:45, 5 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
No problem. I'll check in with you again in a week or so if I haven't heard from you by then. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 17:56, 5 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Haiiya, just checking in to see if you're going to have time to work on this? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 08:39, 12 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I ran Earwig and it found no issues; I have not done spotchecks yet. One more issue to address:

The lead is supposed to be a summary of the body, but the lead here contains information that is not in the body -- the fact it's about lovers, the nasal tone, and a couple of other details. I would integrate all the information in the lead into the body, then review the lead to make sure it still summarizes the body.
- Mike Christie I was thinking because this article is on the smaller side, that if I did that the article would just sound very repetitive, although if you would like me to do it, you'll have to give me a few more days.. Sorry about that.
  If you just copy that information from the lead to the body, yes, it would be repetitive. I would rewrite the body so all the information is there, and then go back to the lead and edit it so it's not repetitive, probably by trimming it down. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 18:39, 16 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

-- Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 11:56, 15 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

- - Mike Christie Alright, I'll get to work on this, expect it done in a day or two. Haiiya (talk) (contribs) 19:47, 16 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]