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Talk:Ukrainian crisis

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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by SaintAviator (talk | contribs) at 20:32, 13 November 2016 (→External links modified). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Requested Move

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved to Ukrainian crisis. Although there was probably consensus for the original proposal, the subsequent proposal was supported unanimously. I will also moved the related articles mentioned at the bottom. Number 57 17:30, 8 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

This crisis has not ended in 2015 and even though it is early in 2015, the title makes it seem as though it has ended. The use of article titles ending in a year at the beginning such as things with a 2014–2015 are reserved for set things such as the 2014–15 Premier League which is set to begin in 2014 and end in 2015. This is not the same and we should distinguish it for the reader because in the end they are the reason that this encyclopedia exists and we should make it easier for them to understand. --Relisted. George Ho (talk) 21:26, 22 January 2015 (UTC) - SantiLak (talk) 01:13, 12 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

"Present" or "2015"

  • Support - I agree the title you suggest sounds better. - Gaming4JC (talk) 01:30, 12 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose – I see no reason for a change. The present title is not incorrect, nor is it bad for the reader. There is no implication of "ending", which must be some kind of misconstruction on your part. It simply says that the crisis has taken place from 2013 to 2015, which is correct. It would be WP:CRYSTAL to suggest otherwise. Natural disambiguation is always preferred over parenthetical disambiguation, according to our title criteria, and hence the proposed title is no good. RGloucester — ☎ 01:50, 12 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
It is not WP:CRYSTAL to suggest a different form of the title. Having it listed as (2013–present) wouldn't make it seem like we are predicting anything, in fact the other title is because it is in a way predicting that the conflict will only last into 2015 while the proposed version would make it clear that it is only occurring up until the present date and if it were to end then it would be appropriate to change it. - SantiLak (talk) 02:01, 12 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
It is only occurring up to 2015, because there has been no further year in our calendar. If the title was labeled "2013–16", then I'd understand your concerns, as there has been no 2016. However, the present title makes the most sense. There is no amorphous "present". A parenthetically disambiguated title simply cannot be accepted by comparison to a naturally disambiguated one. RGloucester — ☎ 02:07, 12 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
It cannot be capitalised per MOS:CAPS. It is not a proper name, it is a descriptive title. RGloucester — ☎ 06:26, 12 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps, but the current title implies that the crisis will end in 2015 even though there is no evidence to back it up. I would take temporary over that.--65.94.253.74 (talk) 04:58, 14 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I disagree. When anyone with any sense of time knows that it is 2015 currently, I have absolutely no idea how you are getting "the crisis will end in 2015" from merely including "15" in the currently known range of time for the subject. Dustin (talk) 23:38, 15 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Nice crystal ball you have there. Nobody has any grounds for believing that the crisis will not continue from 2015 into 2016 as it did from 2014 into 2015. Thus, keeping the title as it is will make it temporary, whereas changing it as proposed will make it more stable. – Herzen (talk) 07:14, 14 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
It takes a crystal ball to assert that there will be a year after 2015. We do not know that this is the case, at present. It is impossible to do so. As a result, the present title is not at all temporary, nor does it imply an end date. It simply implies that the crisis has spanned from 2013 until 2015, and it has. Any assertions about the crisis spanning to an amorphous "present" rely on a crystal ball, and also on an inherently non-concrete notion of time that is not useful to the reader. RGloucester — ☎ 23:32, 15 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Are you suggesting a move to "Ukrainian crisis"? I think that might be acceptable, if others agree. I mean, there have been other crises in Ukraine, but I don't think they've ever been called "Ukrainian crisis". RGloucester — ☎ 18:11, 22 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@George Ho: Mr Ho, what do you think of just plain Ukrainian crisis? It redirects here, so there is no need for any disambiguation, it seems. No other events have been called "Ukrainian crisis", even if there have been other crises in Ukraine. RGloucester — ☎ 23:06, 22 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Are there any "Ukraine crisis"? If so, I should turn it into a disambiguation page. George Ho (talk) 23:07, 22 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
No. No other events have ever been called "Ukrainian crisis", and certainly not "Ukraine crisis" (nonstandard English). RGloucester — ☎ 23:08, 22 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - this is the only correct option as I see it, unless we do away with years entirely (no opinion from me on that count) but the current title is completely unacceptable until and unless the crisis ends this year. Red Slash 01:36, 1 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
How is it unacceptable? The crisis has not been in any other years than 2013, 2014, and 2015. RGloucester — ☎ 01:38, 1 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

"Ukrainian crisis"

  • Move to "Ukrainian crisis" - There never was Ukraine until the fall of the Golden Horde (a territory of former Mongol Empire), was there? Also, since any other related events haven't been called "crisis", extra precision and disambiguation are unnecessary. --George Ho (talk) 23:19, 22 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Support, per my reasoning above. RGloucester — ☎ 23:28, 22 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
First of all, "2013–15" does not imply the crisis will "end". We don't know if there will be a year after 2015, so saying anything other than 2015 implies that we can be certain there will be a year after 2015. It is a pure disaster. The crisis has taken place from 2013–2015, and hasn't taken place in any other years, as there have been no other years. Regardless, you're in the wrong section. In this section, we're talking about "Ukrainian crisis" sans any years. Do you support that? RGloucester — ☎ 23:39, 22 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry 'bout that. Anyways, I wouldn't mind a move to just "Ukranian crisis", as per the reason above. Pyrotle…the "y" is silent, BTW. 02:24, 23 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
It cannot be capitalised per MOS:CAPS. It is not a proper name, merely a descriptive title. RGloucester — ☎ 01:51, 28 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. There don't appear to be other Ukrainian crises called such. I oppose the use of "2015" as implying the end of the crisis in 2015. —  AjaxSmack  03:14, 30 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • To the closer: If this page is moved, there are a bunch of subpages that are going to need moving. Please carry out these moves if this page is moved. The pages are as follows:
List of individuals sanctioned during the 2013–15 Ukrainian crisis
International sanctions during the 2013–15 Ukrainian crisis
Media portrayal of the 2013–15 Ukrainian crisis
Template:2013–15 Ukrainian crisis
Template:2013–15 Ukrainian crisis navbox
Template:Campaignbox 2013–15 Ukrainian Crisis
Category:2013–15 Ukrainian crisis

Thanks very much. It is best to ensure we don't have any loose ends. RGloucester — ☎ 03:35, 30 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

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Putin for President?

This is interesting. www.fort-russ.com/a2016/11/scandalous-poll-84-of-ukrainians-want.html. What do you think? SaintAviator lets talk 20:32, 13 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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