Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement
For appeals: create a new section and use the template {{Arbitration enforcement appeal}}
See also: Logged AE sanctions
![]() | Important information Please use this page only to:
For all other problems, including content disagreements or the enforcement of community-imposed sanctions, please use the other fora described in the dispute resolution process. To appeal Arbitration Committee decisions, please use the clarification and amendment noticeboard. Only autoconfirmed users may file enforcement requests here; requests filed by IPs or accounts less than four days old or with less than 10 edits will be removed. All users are welcome to comment on requests except where doing so would violate an active restriction (such as an extended-confirmed restriction). If you make an enforcement request or comment on a request, your own conduct may be examined as well, and you may be sanctioned for it. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. (Word Count Tool) Statements must be made in separate sections. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as personal attacks, or groundless or vexatious complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions. To make an enforcement request, click on the link above this box and supply all required information. Incomplete requests may be ignored. Requests reporting diffs older than one week may be declined as stale. To appeal a contentious topic restriction or other enforcement decision, please create a new section and use the template {{Arbitration enforcement appeal}}.
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Andranikpasha
Andranikpasha (talk · contribs) blocked for three months. T. Canens (talk) 20:48, 19 June 2010 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Request concerning Andranikpasha
Discussion concerning AndranikpashaStatement by AndranikpashaAs for me, it is a clear case of BLP violation, and it is also an unsignificant quote (by a less significant person) which obviously attacks a living person. "Criticism and praise should be included if they can be sourced to reliable secondary sources, so long as the material is presented responsibly, conservatively, and in a disinterested tone" WP:BLP, and three-revert rule does not apply to such removals. Andranikpasha (talk) 07:05, 18 June 2010 (UTC) Comments by others about the request concerning AndranikpashaI have a question here, is Cox an Armenian? If she is not, this sentence would clearly be a violation of BLP and 1rr or not, users should not be blocked when they have real BLP concerns. There should be a clarification that she is not an Armenian, if she is not. Since any reader reading such a quote will wrongly assume something which is not true. Also, the applicant made two revert to the article and according to this, he has a 1rr restriction for an unlimited duration. Ionidasz (talk) 04:55, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
I agree that BLP violations are to be reverted on sight, and do not count towards RR restrictions. Can you help explain to me why this particular statement is a controversial BLP violation? Thanks.--Epeefleche (talk) 07:51, 18 June 2010 (UTC) Result concerning Andranikpasha
Looks like an unambiguous violation. I'm inclined to block for three months, escalating from the last one-month block, unless another uninvolved admin objects. T. Canens (talk) 04:15, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
Very well, I've blocked Andranikpasha for three months. T. Canens (talk) 13:19, 18 June 2010 (UTC) |
Epeefleche
Borderline case, no action at this time. |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Request concerning Epeefleche
[9] Second revert (of this edit, June 17, 18:30). Cites BLP concerns, although the information cannot be in any way reasonably be construed as disparaging or libellous. It also does not infringe on the privacy of the persons.
Discussion concerning EpeeflecheStatement by Epeefleche
Second, I might as well make a point that the others didn't even see need to get to. As I would hope nom already knows, wp:BLP is not limited, as he would have others believe, to statements that are "disparaging or libelous" or "infringe on ... privacy". Where did that come from? Did nom just make that up? The guideline itself, which I had referred to, says something quite different. In just its second paragraph, using bolding to aid the lazy-eyed editor, it states:
And later, similarly, it instructs us (emphasis added, here) to "Remove immediately any contentious material about a living person that is unsourced or poorly sourced". This is certainly contentious material. It is certainly poorly sourced. All for reasons I alluded to in my edit summary and on the talk page. Those reasons included my observations that Der Spiegel failed to indicate the source for the statement. Failed even indicate to that there is a source. And, it speaks not to a fact, but as to the views of persons (as though they are known by Der Spiegel, and specifically that their current views at the time of the writing/reading are known). Given the circumstances, it of course a highly controversial statement, as it calls into question the persons' objectivity -- given their supposed views. As this is a BLP issue, and a highly controversial one, its a BLP violation. Per wp:blp, I removed it, as indeed I or others should have done post-haste earlier. I also offered that others should feel free to discuss it further (without reverting, under the blp rules. As wp:blp further makes clear, this applies whether the material is negative, positive, neutral, or just questionable, and whether it is in a biography or in some other article. Nom's misleading statement asserting that it need be libelous or disparaging is simply flat-out wrong. I wonder if it might perhaps not be better in the future for nom to read the actual language of the guidance alluded to by the editor whose edit he dislikes, and whose editing rights he seeks to chill, rather than concoct new language of his own and pass it off as the guidance. That might have the additional salutary effect of preventing him from introducing BLP violations into articles, as he has done here.--Epeefleche (talk) 22:07, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
Comments by others about the request concerning EpeeflecheComment by Malik ShabazzCan you clarify why these edits are reverts by identifying the previous versions to which Epeefleche reverted? Thank you. — Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 19:47, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
Comment by No More Mr Nice GuyIs this really the right place for this? Even if there were in fact two reverts, WP:General sanctions says "Any uninvolved administrator may impose sanctions on any editor working in the area of conflict if, despite being warned, that editor repeatedly or seriously fails to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behavior, or any normal editorial process". (emphasis mine)
Result concerning Epeefleche
Cs32en, Malik Shabazz is correct. In order for these two edits to count as reverts, you must provide diffs of the action(s) they are reverts of. If such diffs are not provided, this request is not actionable. Sandstein 21:13, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
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Physchim62
Physchim62 (talk · contribs) topic-banned from the Israeli-Arab conflict for one month. |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Request concerning Physchim62
Discussion concerning Physchim62Statement by Physchim62What we have here is deliberate misrepresentation of my edits. I was wondering how long it would take for someone to accuse me of "antisemitism", the usual cheap slur against anyone who dares criticise the actions of the Israeli government, and Epeefleche (talk · contribs) has obliged. It can't be long before someone tries to use this edit as "evidence" for my "antisemitism", so I'll save you all the trouble of looking for the diff! The deliberate misrepresentation starts with the original complaint by Ynhockey (talk · contribs). I am "seen to be deliberately dehumanizing one side in the conflict;" and then "repeating the insult." No mention that the second diff comes from a conversation on my user talk page in which I try to justify the original words. At the risk of digging myself an even deeper hole, I will clarify that my comments were directed against a small group of IDF "soldiers" who were onboard the Mavi Marmara, and ask editors:
The second round of deliberate misrepresentation comes from Gilisa (talk · contribs), and I apologize in advance for the length of my reply, but s/he has made so many groundless accusations and simple slurs that it takes a while to go through them all!
@Andrensath, I'd rather refrain from publically attacking individual editors over and above what is necessary to refute the allegations made against me; I don't think that such attacks are a constructive approach to improving the article.
UpdateOuuuhhh! Wheeee! We've got the big guns coming out now! Let me just summarise the personal attacks I've had in the last 36 hours or so (and I mean attacks against my person, not against some small group of people protected by anonymity by an organisation already accused of "war crimes" and a government which has been accused of "state terrorism" and "kidnapping", among other things):
Maybe that last diff is the most telling of them all. I am not up against this show trial for any comment I made on the talk page, or any hypothetical offense that might have caused: I am on show trial for having dared criticise the actions of the Israeli government, and the objective is not simply to silence me for as long as possible but also to send out a chilling effect to anyone else who might dare to criticise the Israeli government in the future. These so-called "editors" do not give a monkey's about Wikipedia. They couldn't care less about striving towards a neutral presentation of the information we have at our disposal. All they care about is abusing this project as a vehicle to promote their political views. Anyone who stands in their way must be persecuted, because the promotion of their political view is, to them, infinitely more important than this project to create a neutral encyclopedia. A person who tries to point out that other points of view are possible, and are held, is a person who is particularly dangerous, and one who should be singled out for special persecution. There's no patent on the methods, they've been known since Machiavelli at the very least, but let us not pretend that this farce has any other purpose than promoting one political viewpoint at the expense of proper coverage of another. Physchim62 (talk) 01:44, 20 June 2010 (UTC) Comments by others about the request concerning Physchim62Comment by AndrensathI have to agree that the comments by Psychim62 deserve sanction, but the accusation by said editor that similar remarks were made about the IHH is worrying. If he can provide proof of editors making those remarks, I would suggest only a 1-2 day topic-ban. I would also be interested in the length of a topic-ban Ynhockey would push for, if one is applied. --Andrensath (talk | contribs) 02:04, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
Oh, for fuck's sake. Physchim62, please *stop digging*. The fact you criticised the Israeli government has nothing to do with the AE request, and if I thought it did I'd be arguing *against* sanctioning you. --Andrensath (talk | contribs) 01:57, 20 June 2010 (UTC) Comment by Cs32enIt should be taken into consideration that the editor has not insulted other editors nor any particular individuals. Also, the first edit that has been reported actually precedes the warnings that have been mentioned in the complaint, and the second is an edit on his talk page, not in article or article talk space. Having said this, the language that is being used in the edits does not help to resolve existing controversies related to the article. Physchim62 should be advised to refrain from using such language. Cs32en Talk to me 02:59, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
Comment by GilisaI would like to first make a short reply to Cs32en: Physchim remarks about IDF soldiers are nothing different than similar remarks on US soldiers, they are very offensive to many Israeli editors, especially when made on such a sensitive article. Implying me(?) and Israel (the country) are not sane [23]
And just an instance of what may seem as conduct problem when he reply to Zuchinni who request him to change his rude attitude through him[26] and in his reply to No More Mr Nice Guy [27]. Calling a RS journalist article "propoganda" [28] as excuse to not include it into the article, stating that the journalist couldn't see what he claimed to have seen [29] and taking another source unrelated statement (not refering to Ben Yishay's report) "in contrast with previous reports" as indication Ben Yishay's report is not reliable [30]. I think he's a great contributor in other fields, but should be banned from editing in the I-P area and for two months at least considering previous warnings and his nature as an editor on the I-P as was very briefly exemplified here. --Gilisa (talk) 07:00, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
Comment by RolandRIn an earlier case, still live on this page, a couple of editors complained about a remark on a user talk page describing a living person as a "chimpanzee impersonator", and then apologising to the chimpanzees. This, it seems to me, is a far more egregious comment than the one at issue here. The editor in question, who has been blocked several times, in contrast to Physchim's clean record, was given a warning not to repeat such comments. Under the circumstances, any more serious sanction against Physchim would seem excessive and unfair. RolandR (talk) 10:52, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
Comment by Sean.hoylandre: Ynhockey's statements, I'm not sure about the "Even in the highly controversial I–P area, regular editors are not used to this kind of vitriol" :) I completely agree with "turning a blind eye to such comments will invite more of them in the future, turning the already problematic I–P articles into an area that no regular Wikipedian can reasonably work at." Anyone foolish enough to try to edit I-P conflict related articles for an extended period will have encountered these kind of WP:NOT issues where editors express their opinions about the real world and/or other editors as if they matter and will probably have not complied with WP:NOT many times themselves. It ranges from polite expressions of personal opinion thru passive agressive (a wiki fav) to attacks, rants, vitriol and general nonsense. I don't think polite expressions of personal opinion about the real world are really any less irrelevant, disruptive and annoying than the vitriol personally but maybe that's just me. Setting aside the details of this particularly bit of drama, something should be done to discourage these shenanigans in general. Something simple, fast, and near zero tolerance/zero redtape based like one warning followed by a short block (e.g. 24hrs) if the warning is ignored might help. Just enough to stop the editor in their tracks, give them and everyone else a break. Sean.hoyland - talk 13:14, 18 June 2010 (UTC) Comment by JiujitsuguyI think this diff [31] is relevant to the discussion at hand and speaks volumes of Physchim62's mindset when editing Israel-Arab articles. In response to a vitriolic rant by an IP user, instead of informing the user of Wikipedia guidelines concerning inflammatory remarks, he actually encourages the IP user and makes a crude reference to Israelis drinking the blood of their victims.--Jiujitsuguy (talk) 22:41, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
Comment by CptNoNoIt is clear that the remarks were inappropriate. This needs to be clear to the editor. I made some bad comments months ago but thought at least some of them were acceptable. I received a sanction to basically not do it anymore or face some stiff consequences. Been doing pretty well at toning down since. Let the editor know that he might find it acceptable but the community does not and if it happens again it will be dealt with. Good form on his part at admitting one of the recent edits was unnecessarily provocative. It was probably the least problematic but it is a start. And since my proposal would be fairly tame any continued behavior like this should get some harsh results.Cptnono (talk) 23:01, 18 June 2010 (UTC) Comments by BroccoliI don't think that Physchim62 realizes the inappropriateness and severity of the language he used, as this edit clearly shows. I see no reason to believe that a warning or a short topic ban will help in this situation. I believe that Physchim62 should refact "murderous dogs" comment. If he refuses I believe that a topic ban of 6 months would be the right thing to do. Broccoli (talk) 21:55, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
Yes, Gilisa, I am aware of the facts of this case. As I said in my previous comment in this section, I thought you were referring to Broccoli's six month proposed ban as 'much too short', *not* the one week proposed by the neutral admins. My own suggestion, given Physchim62's behaviour since the AE request was made, would be for 3-4 months. --Andrensath (talk | contribs) 08:57, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
Result concerning Physchim62
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Varsovian
Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Request concerning Varsovian
- User requesting enforcement
- Dr. Loosmark 21:50, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
- User against whom enforcement is requested
- Varsovian (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
- Sanction or remedy that this user violated
- Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/DIGWUREN#Discretionary_sanctions, User_talk:Varsovian#Arbitration_enforcement_warning:_discretionary_sanctions_.28WP:DIGWUREN.29, ([32]).
- Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
- #
[33] <Accusing other editors of calling him racist, not providing diffs. This entire thread seems like a harassment thread, aiming at driving an editor away from a discussion>
[34] <Personal attack and bad faith assumption - discussing another editor in a fashion that shines bad light on them and is not relevant to the ongoing discussion>
[35] <Unnecessary comments about another editor - borderline personal attacks, poisoning the discussion atmosphere>
- Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)
- {{{Diffs of prior warnings}}}
- Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction)
- block or other sanction which would stop such type of behavior
- Additional comments by editor filing complaint
- I believe that diffs like presented above are unacceptable and I am especially disappointed by such behavior because user:Varsovian was very recently sanctioned by user:Sandstein and advised to stop claiming that people have accused him racism when they did not. It did not stop him.
Reply to Strife: Have you read the Digwuren sanction Varsovian is under? We are not talking about just reasonable civility standards (which is always somewhat personal interpretation) but direct violation of his sanction which requires him to provide the diff at the same moment when he is alleging misconduct of another user. He accused me of trying to divert attention from a warning I received. How exactly was I trying to "divert attention"!? He claimed that Kotniski is making accusation of racism without any diffs, is that not in direct violation of his Digwuren sanction? What exactly is the point of having him under such a sanction if he can freely ignore it!? Dr. Loosmark 09:31, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
Reply to Varsovian's statement: I am not quite sure why is Varsovian providing diffs from 2009. Yes I might have made mistakes in the past but I own my errors and those diffs have nothing to do with request against Varsovian. Just briefly: 1) Kotniski has not accused Varsovian of racism, but Varsovian keeps repeating that. 2) He wrote bellow: How is it a personal attack to mention that he’s been warned that week?. Mentioning that I was warned that week is not a personal attack, however implying that I am trying to "divert attention" from being warned is in direct violation of his sanction. 3) I totally reject the bad faith accusation that I have deliberately mistranslated a source. I maintain that my translation was accurate. 4) Claiming that I have a problem "controlling myself" as he claims bellow is uncivil. Dr. Loosmark 11:07, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
Further reply to V.: Varsovian is now stating that he didn't accuse me of deliberately mistranslating a source. Fine. Here is what he wrote: But instead of being happy that I haven’t assumed bad faith and reported him for deliberately mistranslating a foreign language source, Loosmark instead reports me! Why should I be "happy" that he didn't report me for deliberately mistranslating a source? In my opinion his implication is clear: the only reason I could possibly be happy that he didn't report me for deliberately mistranslating a source is if I would have really deliberately mistranslated a source. Dr. Loosmark 12:46, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
Reply to Stifle's proposal: An interaction ban between Dr.Loosmakr and Varsovian!? You have to be kidding. Varsovian broke his AE restrictions and on top of it Sandstein advised him just a couple of days before that he is not allowed to write that people accuse him of racism when they obviously do not. That is what this report was about. After I opened an AE request here, Varsovian instead of explaining/appologizing for his conduct/comment, started personal attacks against me providing a whole series of diffs which are: 1) old (some of them from 2009) 2) have absolutely nothing to do with his breaking of the AE restrictions. Among other things he even hinted that i deliberately mistranslated a foreign language source (quote: But instead of being happy that I haven’t assumed bad faith and reported him for deliberately mistranslating a foreign language source, Loosmark instead reports me!). A very creative way of getting off the hook indeed. He breaks AE restriction, I report him and the results is an interaction ban for the two of us!? Dr. Loosmark 13:26, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
Reply to Varsovian statement: Yeah Varsovian wrote "I am not accusing Loosmark of misconduct" to cover his himself against possible sanctions but then immediately added that I should be "happy that he haven’t assumed bad faith and reported him for deliberately mistranslating a foreign language source". The implication is clear, if I had not deliberately mistranslated a source then why should I be happy that Varsovian did not report me for "deliberately mistranslating a foreign language source"? Unless he is saying that he knew I wasn't deliberately mistranslated a source but was willing to report me anyway. To give an analogy imagine somebody tells to you: "I am not accusing you of being a thief. But be happy I have not reported you to the Police for stealing a car." What exactly is that? Dr. Loosmark 14:00, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
I won't reply to Varsovian statements anymore because clearly he is trying to turn this report into a big mess and then everybody will forget what the report actually is about. Suffice is to say that his analogy is ridiculous, no person would "break a window and hot-wiring the car" just because he lost the keys. Such things actually do happen often and there are reserve keys, plus most car manufacturers can give you new keys. In the worse case scenarion you'd call the Police and try to get the car to a mechanic to replace the lock. So yeah if you see somebody "breaking a window and hot-wiring the car" you can 99% assume something dodgy is going on. Dr. Loosmark 14:39, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
- Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
- [36]
Discussion concerning Varsovian
Statement by Varsovian
Summary
The best solution here is that Loosmark and I are both completely banned from interacting with each other.
Loosmark's accusations
Third diff he provides. I must admire Loosmark’s front here: the gall he has when complaining about this post is staggering. Loosmark claimed that a Polish source “states precisely that he [the subject of this article] was in the "Belarusian police" ”. The source actually says “Sawoniuk, który w czasie okupacji służył w granatowej policji białoruskiej,". “granatowej policji białoruskiej” actually translates as “the Blue police in/of Belarus” (for details of granatowej policji see this article). It most certainly does not translate to “Belarusian police”. I assumed and stated that Loosmark had made a good-faith mistake in his translation and state that I am not “accusing Loosmark of misconduct” with his unfortunate mistranslation (despite the fact that Loosmark has translated the phrase in precisely the meaning which supports his PoV). But instead of being happy that I haven’t assumed bad faith and reported him for deliberately mistranslating a foreign language source, Loosmark instead reports me!
Second diff he provides.The same week as being warned he threatens to report me for stating that a if a man who was born in Poland to a Polish mother is not Polish, another man who was born in Poland to a Polish mother is also not Polish. How is it a personal attack to mention that he’s been warned that week?
First diff he provides. No diff? Got me on that one. There is no diff: because the post contains a direct quotation from the post immediately above it! Let’s get one thing straight: if one said to somebody “you are anti-negro” or “you seem to have something against black people”, one’d be calling them a racist. Insert the word Polish or Poles in place of negro or black and you have the same accusations of racism. Strangely Loosmark doesn’t mention Kotniski’s repeated accusations that I am not editing in good faith ([37] [38] [39] [40] [41] [42], a quote from that last one “That you're putting unsourced facts into an article, or dishonestly citing sources which don't support what you're writing, or putting off-topic information into an article just to smear a particular nation that you seem to have something against.”) or that the first post in that thread is “You have now made your second accusation that I am editing in bad faith. Kindly refrain from doing and strike out your accusation on the WP:POLAND page or I will request that you are warned of DIGWUREN sanctions.” How is a polite request that somebody doesn’t not make accusations of bad faith editing a “harassment thread”? Loosmark also claims I am accusing “other editors” but he has only provided a diff which mentions a single editor. What an unfortunate mistake.
Loosmark’s conduct and a requested solution
Loosmark has been warned of DIGWUREN sanctions ([43]), topic banned under DIGWUREN sanctions ([44]), placed on revert restrictions ([45]) and given a formal warning under DIGWUREN sanctions (“violates Wikipedia conduct norms, notably WP:CIVIL, WP:AGF and WP:BATTLE.” [46]). Since that formal warning, he has in relation to me been warned again for WP:BATTLE behaviour ("Continued misuse of this forum as a battleground will result in sanctions."[47]) and warned again about being civil ([48]). And for good measure a 3RR violation ([49] [50] [51]) while he attempted to keep an off-topic argument with me visible. When I asked Loosmark to self-revert he denied that he had reverted me "even once" and accused me of making "bogus accusation." ([52]). However, after I posted about his behaviour on Matthead's talkpage ([53]), he self-reverted ([54]) claiming "returned the collapse thing to avoid the usual wiki-drama. i still don't agree with it and will raise the issue at an appropriate board later." He didn't raise the issue.
This all suggests that Loosmark has something of a problem controlling himself when it comes to me finds civil interaction difficult when it comes to me. He and I were having problems at Talk:London Victory Parade of 1946 until I imposed an interaction ban on myself with regard to him ([55]). Loosmark couldn’t resist having the last word ([56]) but since then peace has reigned at the article.
Given that the solution has worked well on that page, I suggest that it be extended: i.e. Loosmark and I should both be topic banned from each other. We will not be allowed to reply to each other’s posts on discussion pages or talk pages, we will not be allowed to comment on each other’s edits. We will not be allowed to edit an article for 48 hours after the other has edited it. We will not be allowed to mention each other or even allude to each other anywhere on WP (i.e. talk pages, discussion pages, edit summaries, AE requests, everywhere!). I believe that this action will solve the problem and am only sorry that I haven’t got the strength to simply ignore Loosmark everywhere in the same way that I have managed at Talk:London Victory Parade of 1946.
- Further support that Loosmark has 'difficulty' in interacting with me in a civil way come from his reply to my comments. He says "I totally reject the bad faith accusation that I have deliberately mistranslated a source." but I have clearly stated above "I assumed and stated that Loosmark had made a good-faith mistake"! Varsovian (talk) 11:44, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
- Just to make it clear: in the above I am not alleging any misconduct by Loosmark. I'm sure that when he read my "Loosmark had made a good-faith mistake" and read that as me saying he had "deliberately mistranslated a source", he made that mistake in good faith too. Varsovian (talk) 12:32, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
Comments by Kotniski
More of his gems about me smearing Poles (this gave my girlfriend, her kids, my former uni students from when I was working here with Peace Corps and all my colleagues (i.e. some of the Poles who actually know me) a good laugh). I will reply in detail to his comments when I have enough time to (probably not until next week, I intend to be sat in front of the TV this weekend) but could he perhaps quote the part of WP:CIVIL which says ‘It’s perfectly acceptable to be incivil if you are dealing with “people like that” ’? Varsovian (talk) 10:46, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
- Yes Kotniski “policji białoruskiej” does mean "Belorussian Police". However, the source actually says “granatowej policji białoruskiej” and, as we both know granatowej policji means Blue Police.
Comment by Stifle
Please note that the comment from Kotniski which alleged that I trying to "smear a particular nation that you seem to have something against" (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Kotniski&diff=prev&oldid=367250748), i.e. that I am anti-Polish, which is the same as being racist, was the post immediately above my post on the talk page. You really think that I should have provided a diff in that situation?
I'm reminded of a group of editors from Eastern Europe who used to tag team their opponents: one or more would deliberately wind up an opponent and then another would immediately report the smallest infraction by the wound-up opponent. While clearly Loosmark and Kotniski would never engage in such behaviour, we have [57] [58] [59] [60] [61] [62] from Kotniksi and then Loosmark jumps straight in with a report. Against me of course, Kotniski's self-confessed incivility isn't even worth a mention to Loosmark. Varsovian (talk) 15:35, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
Comments by Chumchum7
This diff well describes Chumchum7's comments "But in its current state it is too long and argumentative and contains too few relevant diffs. We are not interested in opinions, we are interested in evidence." Despite being told that this page is not for long argumentative opinions, Chumchum7 simply copy/pastes his entire long (2,038 word!)argumentative opinion. Not the most helpful of contributions. Varsovian (talk) 16:50, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
Resolution suggested by Stifle I'd much prefer that you made the ban six months and made it more than just an interaction ban. I'd prefer to see it as "We will not be allowed to reply to each other’s posts on discussion pages or talk pages, we will not be allowed to comment on each other’s edits. We will not be allowed to edit an article for 48 hours after the other has edited it. We will not be allowed to mention each other or even allude to each other anywhere on WP (i.e. talk pages, discussion pages, edit summaries, AE requests, everywhere!)" Obviously I'd welcome contributions from other editors as to how to best word this ban. Varsovian (talk) 13:03, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
- Loosmark's reaction to this solution includes: still claiming that I "hinted that Loosmark deliberately mistranslated a foreign language source" when I actually said that Loosmark had made a good-faith mistake in his translation and explicitly stated that I was not “accusing Loosmark of misconduct”; twice repeating his little 'mistake' with singular vs plural ("Varsovian broke his AE restrictions" "his breaking of the AE restrictions" (emphasis added) but he can only give one diff to support his claim that I broke one of my restrictions); and alleging that I make "personal attacks" against him. I conclude that this shows the suggested ban on us needs to be permanent and very very tight. Loosmark appears to want blood (mine to be exact); I'd prefer to see Wikipedia made better, and an interaction ban will do just that. Varsovian (talk) 13:38, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
- Loosmark's reply to my reply again shows the need for a tight ban on both of us. His metaphor regarding a car would be better as "I am not accusing you of being a thief. But instead of you being happy I have not reported you to the Police for stealing a car when I saw you breaking the window of a car and hot-wiring it because I assumed that you had made the good faith mistake of losing the keys to your car, you report me to the police for failing to dot an i in my tax return." I note that Loosmark says "Yeah Varsovian wrote "I am not accusing Loosmark of misconduct" to cover his himself against possible sanctions but then immediately added that I should be "happy that he haven’t assumed bad faith and reported him for deliberately mistranslating a foreign language source"." (emphasis added). In reality "I am not accusing Loosmark of misconduct" ([63]) was 18:59 on 10 June and "happy that I haven’t assumed bad faith and reported him for deliberately mistranslating a foreign language source" ([64]) was actually 10:42 the next day. So when Loosmark says "immediately", he's either badly mistaken or lying. Given all the mistakes he's made in this thread, I'm more inclined towards 'lying' than 'mistaken'. But regardless of which it is, his comment simply shows that our ban needs to be very tight and permanent (and immediate). Varsovian (talk) 14:22, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
- I've actually been in a situation where I lost my car keys and needed to break the window and hot-wire the car (the spare keys were a five hour drive away). But I agree that it is 99% likely that something dodgy is happening when one sees somebody hot-wiring a car. Just as it is 99% likely that something dodgy is happening when somebody mistranslates something written in one's native language and mistranslates it in a way that supports one's PoV. However, as I always remember about WP:AGF, I say that Loosmark's mistranslation was the 1% where nothing dodgy was happening: which is why I said "good faith mistake" and "not accusing Loosmark of misconduct". That Loosmark appears to assume bad faith with regard to my reply is merely yet more proof that a ban is needed to prevent us from harming WP. Varsovian (talk) 14:49, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
- Loosmark's reply to my reply again shows the need for a tight ban on both of us. His metaphor regarding a car would be better as "I am not accusing you of being a thief. But instead of you being happy I have not reported you to the Police for stealing a car when I saw you breaking the window of a car and hot-wiring it because I assumed that you had made the good faith mistake of losing the keys to your car, you report me to the police for failing to dot an i in my tax return." I note that Loosmark says "Yeah Varsovian wrote "I am not accusing Loosmark of misconduct" to cover his himself against possible sanctions but then immediately added that I should be "happy that he haven’t assumed bad faith and reported him for deliberately mistranslating a foreign language source"." (emphasis added). In reality "I am not accusing Loosmark of misconduct" ([63]) was 18:59 on 10 June and "happy that I haven’t assumed bad faith and reported him for deliberately mistranslating a foreign language source" ([64]) was actually 10:42 the next day. So when Loosmark says "immediately", he's either badly mistaken or lying. Given all the mistakes he's made in this thread, I'm more inclined towards 'lying' than 'mistaken'. But regardless of which it is, his comment simply shows that our ban needs to be very tight and permanent (and immediate). Varsovian (talk) 14:22, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
- Loosmark's reaction to this solution includes: still claiming that I "hinted that Loosmark deliberately mistranslated a foreign language source" when I actually said that Loosmark had made a good-faith mistake in his translation and explicitly stated that I was not “accusing Loosmark of misconduct”; twice repeating his little 'mistake' with singular vs plural ("Varsovian broke his AE restrictions" "his breaking of the AE restrictions" (emphasis added) but he can only give one diff to support his claim that I broke one of my restrictions); and alleging that I make "personal attacks" against him. I conclude that this shows the suggested ban on us needs to be permanent and very very tight. Loosmark appears to want blood (mine to be exact); I'd prefer to see Wikipedia made better, and an interaction ban will do just that. Varsovian (talk) 13:38, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
Comments by others about the request concerning Varsovian
What we have here is a strongly POV-motivated editor who gives a very clear impression that his sole purpose on Wikipedia is to smear Poland and Poles generally (or wind up Polish editors, I don't know exactly what his motivation is). Anyone with an ounce of experience with these issues knows this - we won't make any progress by trying to pretend such things are not so. So frankly I'm not so concerned with the uncivility of his comments (and I'm sorry if people find what I say back to him uncivil, but Wikipedia forces reasonable editors to interact with people like that, so it's understandable if frustration and the desire for simple truth sometimes leads us to call spades spades), as with the inherent and unapologetic biased-ness of his editing. And it's not just him - there are other similar editors (you all presumably know them better than I do) on all sides. If ArbCom and admins really want to solve these issues, they must address the underlying problems of agenda-driven editing, rather than (just) the surface phenomenon of incivility.--Kotniski (talk) 06:17, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
- Oh and "policji białoruskiej" most certainly does translate as Belarusian police - maybe it's a simple linguistic mistake on Varsovian's part clamining that it doesn't, but there is no way in the world that it translates to "Polish police" as he originally claimed. But I'm tired talking to him or taking any further part in this debate - any discussion with him (even though civil on the surface) is destined to consist of this kind of untruths and fantastic original theories. --Kotniski (talk) 11:05, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
- Chumchum7 here. I recently wrote the following complaint about Varsovian at AE, which I may get round to filing in standard AE format, if I ever get the time. Any or all of it may be used as evidence here:
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I've chosen not to use the AE template so as to provide a fuller account of this long story, but all the required content is here. This filing is about Varsovian further to an Arbitration Enforcement warning here [65] then a block here [66] then my ANI here [67] which led to a DIGWUREN Arbitration Enforcement warning by User:Sandstein on 26th April here [68] and then most recently sanctions from User:Sandstein here [69] The DIGWUREN wording is clear: "If you, Varsovian, continue to fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behavior, or any normal editorial process (including the policies cited above), in the Eastern Europe topic area, you may be made subject to blocks, bans or other sanctions according to the cited arbitral remedy without further warning." I recently took a look at London Victory Parade of 1946, which is where much of Varsovian's troublesome activity has been. Sadly it appears that Varsovian has returned to his old ways there despite my ANI and the consequent warning that DIGWUREN sanctions may be applied. Firstly, these edits are of most concern, and their misleading edit summaries are equally troubling: [70] [71] [72] [73] [74] [75] In these edits, Varsovian has repeatedly re-added or defended a piece of data that other editors have contested; he has also personally synthesised this data from other pieces of information in the citation; he appears to have done this to enable him to make his own desired assertion that 'no more than 8,000 members of the Armia Krajowa were full-time armed members as of 1943' and variants of this. It seems that the citation he uses does not specifically provide us with the data, but Varsovian has made his own calculations from data in the source and reached this statistic himself. While that could have been an uncontroversial breach of WP:SYNTH easily dealt with, the bigger problem is that the synthetic data is being used in breach of WP:POINT and WP:BATTLE. He appears to want to use this synthesised statistic as a weapon to compete with other editors on the page. Varsovian has been at WP far too long not to know that he was in breach of WP:SYNTH, and that he should not have disputed other editors' problem with this material. But he continues to defend it aggressively. Other editors cut the data because they cannot find anywhere in the citation. Varsovian is warring to keep the data in place. As can be seen from edit summaries and Talk page discussion, there's little respect by Varsovian for the normal process of consensus-building and collegiality that is the ethos of our community. Eventually, User:PTwardowski complains about all this on the talk page here [76] and asks where Varsovian's behaviour should be reported. According to the above mentioned DIGWUREN warning, it should have been reported here at WP:AE. Varsovian finally explains his rationale as to why he is reverting to keep the data in place, in response to User:PTwardowski here [77]. In fact Varsovian's explanation demonstrates that his additions have been a clear case of WP:NOR. It had baffled other editors because the data was not in the citation, and yet Varsovian presents himself as if he has vindicated himself with the explanation, and moreover that he is the victim: "I would be most grateful if you could kindly refrain from calling me a liar." This is some kind of strange behavioural game, and I recognise a lot of Varsovian's behaviour in the guideline notes at WP:GAME. Then, as can be seen from the discussion chain [78] User:Loosmark joins in, with a valid question: "What exactly has that number to do with the London Parade?" The question is a fair one: the data is made up, being warred over as well as irrelevant. Then, something even more concerning can be observed. Having already demonstrated a breach of WP:NOR, Varsovian goes on to reveal that his underlying desire is not to have any data at all: "I personally feel that information regarding size of contribution to WWII have no place at all in an article about the London victory parade" he says. So why the tendentious addition of the 8000 figure if he doesn't really care about it in the first place? It seems that by adding the data, he hopes to use it as a bargaining tool that will lead to all data being removed. Varsovian should communicate his wishes in a straightforward manner, instead of continuing to play games that could be interpreted as WP:TE, WP:DE and possibly even WP:VANDALISM. The 8000 figure is just the tip of the iceberg. After the completion of the ANI and the warning on 26th April, I edited the "Political Controversy" section of London Victory Parade of 1946, up until this edit [79] on 27th April. In response to my changes, Varsovian chose not to revert them (which was often his behaviour) but thankfully disputed them on the Talk page instead here [80]. In his dispute, he alleges I engage in WP:TE, which is precisely what my ANI about him had just been about, and had led to his DIGWUREN warning. I chose not to report Varsovian's allegation against me at WP:AE, despite the severe DIGWUREN deterrent he is under, because I hoped it would all cool down instead. Around the same time, Varsovian took up his issue about the London Victory Parade of 1946 at the Chopin page here [81] This seems to be an attempt to canvass editors in dispute with alleged Polish nationalists, to gain support at the London Victory Parade of 1946, to my mind in breach of WP:CANVASSING. There was then an ANI about off-topic incivility at the Chopin talk page here [82] which could probably been reported here at WP:AE instead. Varsovian's Talk page dispute with my edit of London Victory Parade of 1946 failed to gain any support whatsoever. Between my edit on 27th April until 18th May my edit seems to have proven generally uncontroversial, and in broadly in keeping with consensus. There were edits by other editors, and Varsovian reverted several of them. Two weeks after my edit and Varsovian's talk page dispute of it, he still hadn't gained even one voice of support, while the edit history indicates that my edit seems to have been largely in keeping with consensus. But Varsovian disregards that, and states he is going to go ahead and apply his desired changes anyway: [83]. User:Loosmark protests, and a very long fight ensues between them on the talk page. Despite Loosmark's opposition to Varsovian's proposed changes, Varsovian carries on regardless. Early on he attacks me directly in this edit summary [84], alleging my use of bold text in a block quote is a case of me manipulating the source: "Removing false claim that source emphasizes certain information" he says. I made a "false claim" by bolding some text within a block quote? A more helpful edit would have been to add "[emphasis added]" at the end of the quote, as per WP guidance. Varsovian's incivility was unnecessary, in defiance of the DIGWUREN warning, and seemingly an attempt to provoke my reaction. I didn't react. But a week later, Varsovian is back again, and rips out the entire block quote, including the citation that I had transcribed it from: [85] All of the above demonstrates Varsovian's unwillingness to learn or to change his ways, and his wilful contempt for the ethos of our community. I am reporting all this in keeping with Administrator guidance at the ANI and the DIGWUREN warning, both linked above. I hereby request enforcement. I have not recently looked up Varsovian's behaviour elsewhere, other than what is mentioned here, but I have been troubled by Varsovian's edits at other Poland-related articles. I defer to Administrators' judgement, but I am aware that my request is needed here. Given the issue now is less about attempting to improve Varsovian's behaviour, and more about preventing him from damaging Wikipedia, I would have to recommend a ban. -Chumchum7 (talk) 01:17, 29 May 2010 (UTC) Additional note: I have just seen a thread (dated after Varsovian's DIGWUREN warnings) at the Chopin talk page where Varsovian seems to indicate his general, long term axe to grind: [86] where Varsovian says "I'm sure that it will be unacceptable to certain editors (who all just so happen to be of a certain nationality)." The innuendo is unequivocally a generalised pre-judgement about Wikipedians from Poland and a massive breach of WP:INCIVILITY if not WP:NPA. User:Kotniski replies with a comment about the "anti-Polish" gang, when instead he should have said nothing and taken it up here at WP:AE. Varsovian's immediate response: "Could you perhaps refrain from accusing other editors of being racists? Thanks in advance." Later in the Chopin talk page, Varsovian spells out his feelings [87] with a list of Poles who he says many Poles deny are Polish because they don't fit Polish national myth. These denials by Poles might after investigation turn out to be verifiable, but Varsovian's apparent pre-judgement and generalization about Wikipedians from Poland is unacceptable. He goes on to imply Polish nationalism is motivating some Wikipedians here [88]. This is equally as unacceptable as it would be to allege British Nationalism on talk pages. Now, the cause of anti-nationalism is a noble one, but it should not compromise fundamental Wikipedia standards. I am saddened that Varsovian is still stuck on the same mission, because much time ago I took the step of expressing my heartfelt concerns here [89] and here [90]. This was an opportunity for Varsovian to see the problem. But Varsovian took offence, and said the latter was an accusation of racism, here [91] and in so doing dismissed my concerns as unreasonable. That was all a long time ago, and Varsovian has had plenty of opportunities to change, but his actions prove that he hasn't. There is a wider policy issue for Wikipedia, beyond this case, and I would like to know if it is addressed in WP guidance somewhere. Especially in the WP Eastern Europe topic area, we should be as vigilant about the assumption of nationalism as we are about nationalism itself. The former can be used as sport, to provoke nationalistic responses. Remember that Senator McCarthy fought a noble fight against American communism, and yet he himself was probably the single US citizen most obsessed with American communism. He made his own monsters in order to slay them. History indicates his moral crusade was less than candid. -Chumchum7 (talk) 10:55, 29 May 2010 (UTC) Precedent: When administrators come to making a decision here, useful points of reference will be the type of sanctions that have already been imposed in the Eastern Europe topic area that should already improve Wikipedia by acting as a cautionary deterrent to all editors. Such precedents that I am aware of are the cases of User:Jacurek, User:Loosmark, User:Dr. Dan and User:Piotrus - all of which can be used to inform decision-making here. To my mind, one should make an assessment about to what extent Varsovian's behaviour has been better or worse than these peers in the topic area. That should be considered in addition to my above account of Varsovian's long-term pattern of behaviour, his multiple breaches and warnings, when making an enforcement decision here. -Chumchum7 (talk) 08:39, 3 June 2010 (UTC) Further evidence of WP:GAME can be seen on Varsovian's first entry below. He has misleadingly characterized this as a 'content dispute' seemingly between him and myself, without even a passing mention of his breaches that I have listed above; and despite the fact that I have not been engaging with him on articles and talk pages in any dispute for weeks, while I have observed other editors' engagement with him. Secondly, Varsovian identifies 'winning' as something that is even possible in Wikipedia: this again demonstrates his WP:GAME tendencies, his attitude that the editing process is about winning and losing rather than building a consensus in a constructive manner. Neither Varsovian, nor any other editor, can win or lose, because Wikipedia is not a game but a group effort toward a non-competitive goal. The evidence I have provided demonstrates Varsovian's long-term refusal to accept this fundamental principle of Wikipedia. -Chumchum7 (talk) 08:01, 4 June 2010 (UTC) |
Thanks -Chumchum7 (talk) 16:29, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
- Chumchum7 could you please collapse your text? My report is about a very specific violation of the AE sanctions by Varsovian. Your evidence might suggest problems of another nature however I doubt that the Admins will be willing to examine it within my request. Dr. Loosmark 18:48, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
- Loosmark, I have no idea how to collapse text so please go ahead and do that if you know how to. I support your request, but repeat the message to administrators that we have a much bigger, long term problem here with Varsovian, who is playing a long-term WP:GAME, as I have detailed in my text above. I may file another AE at any time at my convenience, and anyone else can use the evidence I have earmarked in future AE requests, if the problems continue as they have for the past several months. Thanks, -Chumchum7 (talk) 20:20, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
- I've collapsed it for you. Regards, AGK 10:15, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
- Loosmark, I have no idea how to collapse text so please go ahead and do that if you know how to. I support your request, but repeat the message to administrators that we have a much bigger, long term problem here with Varsovian, who is playing a long-term WP:GAME, as I have detailed in my text above. I may file another AE at any time at my convenience, and anyone else can use the evidence I have earmarked in future AE requests, if the problems continue as they have for the past several months. Thanks, -Chumchum7 (talk) 20:20, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
Result concerning Varsovian
- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.
- None of those three diffs appear to me to be outside the bounds of reasonable civility standards. On the contrary, Varsovian is expressing himself quite reservedly and straightforwardly. Stifle (talk) 08:23, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
- To Dr. Loosmark: I see now, this refers to [92], an existing sanction, rather than a general request for a new sanction. This is actionable; I will hear editors and other admins as to what might be an appropriate sanction. Stifle (talk) 15:08, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
- Not resolved yet. Stifle (talk) 12:18, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
- An interaction ban between Dr. Loosmark and Varsovian seems to have some merit. What if I said two months interaction ban? Stifle (talk) 12:56, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
- I will hear Dr. Loosmark on their opinion of the terms proposed. Stifle (talk) 13:18, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
- Well, my time has run out; I have to go on Wikibreak now due to my impending wedding. I will have to hand this over to another sysop. Stifle (talk) 15:37, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
Congratulations! And after seeing these two bicker on my talk page all day long, I agree that they need a break from each other. Accordingly, per WP:DIGWUREN#Discretionary sanctions, Dr. Loosmark and Varsovian are hereby banned from interacting with each other for two months. Violations of this ban may be sanctioned by an extension of the ban and/or blocks and/or additional sanctions. What counts as "interaction" is to be determined by uninvolved administrators in their sole judgment, but shall include (without being limited to) making reference to the other on any page, or replying to or undoing each other's actions; they may still edit the same pages or discussions if they do not react to one another and otherwise stay out of each other's way. Should either party believe that the other violates this ban, they may not react to this except by means of the following procedure: they may inform one uninvolved administrator, on their talk page, of the diff of the edit in question as well as of this topic ban, and ask the admin to determine whether that edit constitutes a sanctionable violation; they are required to abide by that admin's determination without further argument. The other party is not to be informed of, and may not reply to, that request unless asked to by the admin. Should the admin not react to the request within 24 hours, or decline to make the determination whether or not the interaction ban was violated, another admin may be asked in the same manner, and so forth until a determination is made one way or the other. Sandstein 20:58, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
Shuki
Not actionable as an enforcement request, but Shuki warned against WP:NPA. |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Request concerning Shuki
Yn, the difference is that I am not saying that Shuki is intending to mislead others. By saying the argument is "bogus" I am saying that the argument has no merit, I am not saying that he or she is purposely misleading others or impugning his or her character in any way. There is an accusation of bad faith in saying somebody is lying, it is a clear cut personal attack. How about you use whatever influence you have with Shuki and explain to him or her why such accusations are inappropriate. nableezy - 00:34, 20 June 2010 (UTC) I dont think an interaction ban would be possible, we both work on a ton of the same articles. nableezy - 00:54, 20 June 2010 (UTC) Ep, Im not going to waste too much time replying to you, but bogus also means fake, or, in the sense I was using it wiggity-wiggity-whack; bulls***; unfortunate; silly; unbelievable; not genuine; the opposite of excellent. And if Shuki has said that such a word caused offense I would not have continued to repeat it. As for your other request, I presented diffs backing what I said on the Katzrin page, and the accusation on the RFC is so nonsensical I am not exactly sure what Shuki is accusing me of lying about. nableezy - 08:00, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
Discussion concerning ShukiStatement by ShukiIf an editor, such as Nableezy, consistently makes statements directly attempting to attack and delegitime my edits and comments, and not related to the topic/discussion, they he should not be surprised when he is accused of lying and should instead verify if he has indeed made baseless disruptive accusations. Frankly, each reply Nableezy provides above is in defense of his allegations. --Shuki (talk) 00:16, 20 June 2010 (UTC) Comments by others about the request concerning Shuki
What we have here seems as interaction problem between two specific editors. I'm not sure, though, that long term interaction ban would be a constructive solution. I couldn't get the whole picture from the diffs provided here, but I'm sure that there is a solution that can sattele down this conflict without actionable measures have to be taken. --Gilisa (talk) 06:45, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
Nab -- can you supply more detail? Specifically, showing the lack of truth in the accusations? Tx.--Epeefleche (talk) 07:34, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
Being guilty of it myself before, one thing I have learned about the I-P area that is very important is never call anyone a liar. He may have misled others with his comment, inserted silliness, made a bogus claim, or a number of phrases that say similar things but liar is too offensive and could even imply that he as a person is overtly and intentionally immoral instead of someone you just disagree with and may not like. It simply shouldn't be used in an already touchy topic area. I don't blame you if you are livid with Nableezy at all. I often am. We just can't apply that label to anyone here even if another editor's comments were questionable. So refrain from doing it and the problem should be solved. Simple enough fix. Of course, I'm not saying say everything but liar since that can open up its own can of worms.Cptnono (talk) 08:55, 20 June 2010 (UTC) Result concerning Shuki
Cptnono is correct: "He may have misled others with his comment, inserted silliness, made a bogus claim, or a number of phrases that say similar things but liar is too offensive and could even imply that he as a person is overtly and intentionally immoral instead of someone you just disagree with and may not like. It simply shouldn't be used in an already touchy topic area." It is acceptable to critically engage the statements and opinions of others if a professional tone is employed; "bogus argument", however, is already too confrontational in my opinion. But it is certainly not acceptable to attack people themselves ("liar"). As requested, I am warning Shuki not to repeat such personal attacks. Nableezy, however, is also cautioned that this page is neither a substitute for the dispute resolution process nor for wikiquette alerts. Please do not make enforcement requests except to request an actual sanction in situations where the normal dispute resolution process has been exhausted. Accordingly, I am closing this as not actionable. Sandstein 09:17, 20 June 2010 (UTC) |