Talk:John Smith (Labour Party leader)

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Reaction to death

"Smith's death...caused an emotional convulsion that, in a small way, prefigured the outpouring of grief that followed the equally unexpected death of Diana, Princess of Wales three years later."

I find this really, really hard to believe. I know he's fondly remembered in Labour circles but I'm doubting the mourning of Smith was anything like the mass hysteria following Diana's death. - Johnbull 03:09, 21 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I don't agree. I remember that there was a shocked reaction to his death and people genuinely felt sad about and moved by it, albeit "in a small way". ¬¬ LP

The front page of The Independent the day after Smith's death had the headline "THE MAN WHO WOULD HAVE LEAD BRITAIN". The front cover of the next edition of Private Eye had a photo of a newspaper seller with 'Smith dead' signage outside the Commons, with the speech bubble "He could still beat Major". These accurately caught the mood at the time: that Britain had lost a good man. Not a man to inspire great love, but a safe, friendly and reliable prime-minister-in-waiting who would do good. I can certainly remember people in pubs being spontaneously maudlin about it -- then again, that's hardly evidence, I suppose ... ;¬) Garrick92 14:47, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

My dad was the last person to shake Mr Smith's hand, and in the last photo ever taken of smith. Tommeehan 12:01, 24 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I would also query "equally unexpected" as he did have a known heart condition and had been seeing a specialist for some time beforehand --BozMo talk 09:26, 6 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure about that. Although in retrospect it may not have been so expected, at the time it certainly was shocking. I was at university, and when I switched on the radio to hear the news, it made me physically stagger. It was a huge, huge shock to me at least. 86.132.138.42 01:53, 14 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think it would need to be a particularly "unexpected" death for it to be described as such (if, say, he had been young and fit with no previous history of heart disease). Davidmcn1972 (talk) 18:31, 22 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I was 12 when he died, already politically aware but unaware of his heart issues, and was shocked when it was mentioned in Assembly at school that morning. I went to a Catholic school, and this was a holy day of some sort. The headmaster who spoke mentioned that, to his followers, John Smith was an ethical principled man who would lead them to glory and put everything right (or words to this effect) in much the same was as Jesus was to his Disciples. I recall that Smith was seen in this way, more so than Blair despite his Messianic tones.--MartinUK (talk) 23:44, 26 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

LGBT?

"Note he was also gay before marrying Elizabeth Smith."

can't believe i'm even justifying that with a response. i'm deleting that coment as it's probably vandalism. if its not prove it. whoever put it there, if its true prove it and if its not true then you've already proved that your an idiot Joevsimp 19:09, 14 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

No middle name?

Is it true he didn't have one? --MacRusgail (talk) 14:19, 13 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yes it is true he didn't have a middle name. Check his Who's who entries between 1971 and 1994, and also the two biographies written about him by Andy McSmith and Mark Stuart. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.38.18.89 (talk) 09:20, 1 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Drinker?

What's the significance of the "sometimes he drank...." line? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.107.66.35 (talk) 05:46, 3 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

One of the Westminster "open secrets" which, strangely, is entirely missing from this page. Jack Straw called Smith a "gargantuan drinker" [1], while Tony Blair said Smith was "A Gold Medal Winner in the Drinking Olympics" [2] Fig (talk) 13:21, 22 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Ice cream wars

"Smith defended one of the men involved in the notorious 'ice cream wars'.^{[citation needed]}"

Anyone have a reference for this? I couldn't find any, so I've removed it. --Andy Fugard (talk) 11:12, 9 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/obituary-john-smith-1435598.html "He was involved in many picturesque Scottish trials. For example, one of his clients was Thomas 'The Shadow' Lafferty. Lafferty was charged with the attempted murder of Andrew 'Fat Boy' Doyle and a 15-year-old girl who had been in his ice-cream van when shots were fired" etc. JohnHarris (talk) 01:41, 4 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Sir John?

Did John Smith hold a knighthood? If you look at the Youtube videohere at 0:38 the doctor refers to him as 'Sir John Smith', is this correct?86.154.74.121 (talk) 23:27, 18 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

No, if had held a knighthood he wouldn't have been able to serve in the Commons. 84.92.117.93 (talk) 15:46, 1 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

You're thinking of a peerage, which would have barred him from the Commons. A knighthood doesn't prevent people from becoming MPs, for example Sir Menzies Campbell. John Smith didn't have a knighthood anyway. JRawle (Talk) 13:32, 8 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Photo

We really need a photo ! -- Beardo (talk) 21:32, 8 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I had a look after the bot removed the deleted one, including a search on Commons. All it turned up was his gravestone. I'm sure there must be images we could use on WP but there don't seem to be any at the moment.--JohnBlackburne^words_deeds 21:45, 8 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I removed the image that was sitting there as even under fair use we have to know the author to credit them and describe the license. The image I replaced it with has a known provenance and the license can be clearly inferred. Spartaz ^Humbug! 18:19, 16 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I found a photo online, if someone could buy it and then crop it to fit that'd be great https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-john-smith-qc-mp-labour-party-leader-03-february-1994-28352979.html JustOneGuyWithALama (talk) 17:02, 13 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion

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Rushed to hospital?

The article reads: “At 8:05 a.m. the following morning, whilst in his Barbican flat, Smith suffered a fatal heart attack. His wife phoned an ambulance and he was rushed to St Bartholomew's Hospital where he died at 9:15 a.m., having never regained consciousness.” The term rushed suggests he was just whisked off, but this is not true. [[3]] suggests otherwise. Boscaswell talk 03:33, 13 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I changed this to "taken to hospital". "Rushed to hospital" is journalese, which is a writing style that Wikipedia articles should avoid.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 05:14, 13 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

British/Scottish

I'm just wondering if there's any specific reason why Smith is referred to as British in the lead rather than pinpointed as Scottish. He was born in Scotland, grew up there and went to university in Glasgow. Among the categories he is currently listed in are Scottish Labour Party MPs, Scottish solicitors and Scottish Presbyterians so why not? Humbledaisy (talk) 00:26, 31 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Ideological stance / political positions

Every other Labour leader has a few sections describing their political positons or beliefs, none for Smith? I would appreciate some clarity in where he stood within the party factions 2A00:23C5:EDB1:1:206F:19BF:F9C5:CCF3 (talk) 12:00, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]