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Talk:Lewes

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Lead

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The lead section needs expanding in line with WP:Lead. SilkTork *YES! 08:55, 5 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Lewes Bonfire

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SilkTork has now made two attempts to change a sub-title away from "Lewes Bonfire" - which happens to be the correct title, used locally, nationally and internationally. "Lewes Bonfire" differs in many respects from "Bonfire Night", "Guy Fawkes Night" or other generic namings; it is a specific description, which is very well-known in its own right.

SilkTork has also changed the reference to the Fifth to "the Lewes Bonfire Night", which is not a description in common use anywhere. "Lewes Bonfire" is a term widely used; "Bonfire Night" or "Bonfire" are terms used within Lewes itself. In no case does the name take the definite article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Molly Mockford (talk • contribs) 18:33, 5 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

SilkTork was editing the article according to the Manual of style. WP:MOSHEAD states Section names should not explicitly refer to the subject of the article which is why "Lewes Bonfire" became "Bonfire". However, in this article "Lewes Bonfire" is a multi worded proper noun. Removing the word Lewes changes its meaning, so in my opinion "Lewes Bonfire" is a exception to the MOS rule, and should remain as the heading. ++ MortimerCat (talk) 07:46, 6 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Lewes Bonfire

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This section should be moved/merged with that on Sussex Bonfire Societies, given that it deals with a specfic topic more suited to that article. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 18:37, 13 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree; Lewes Bonfire is qualitatively different from any of the other Sussex Bonfires. It is known around the world, and users would expect to find information about it in the Lewes article; in addition, it is probably the best-known thing about Lewes. I think it highly appropriate that it should remain in the Lewes article.--Molly Mockford (talk) 21:07, 13 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Governance

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The recent changes by Will Karr have extended the coverage of Lewes into more extensive reporting on Lewes District Council politics - which already has its own page. He has also introduced political opinion and speculation on the nature of Lewes without any substantive evidence, which appears to be motivated by party political opinion. I base this on the fact that his editing of wiki pages started around the 2015 General Election and most of his work involves the creation of the wiki page for the newly elected Conservative MP for Lewes constituency. These changes should be mostly removed. PellsPool (talk) 23:03, 7 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that this user has added far too much irrelevant political material to the article, and far too much material which relates to Lewes District or Lewes Constituency rather than Lewes Town. A lot of this hould be deleted in order to re-balance the article, but I am afraid I don't have the time at the moment to do it with the care it needs. Anybody? Molly Romanov 10:49, 15 June 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Molly Romanov (talk • contribs)
I made the amends earlier in June after making this comment. The version as it now stands should be both relevant (ie references to Lewes District etc are pertinent to Lewes town), and based on facts/sources rather than opinion (eg references to Lewes being "left-leaning" because of an alleged large proportion of teachers/public sector workers living in the town have been simply removed).Rob at Pells (talk) 12:35, 16 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I have now re-read and see Will Karr has restored both the less pertinent and the opinions. Grateful if any more senior user can advise how this can be tackled, since I am new to having sensible revisions undone by editors determined to keep their amends in. I also note Will Karr has not engaged on this talk page.Rob at Pells (talk) 12:38, 16 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I have posted on Will Karr's own talk page - "Hi Will! I amended the Lewes town pages to remove wider references to Lewes District (eg which towns are also in the district, and separately the overall political make-up of the District Council) since Lewes District has its own page where those should be covered if not already. The references to Lewes District on the Lewes page relate to how the town is represented at district level. You have restored those. Another user has agreed that those wider references are not necessary - see the talk pages on Lewes. In addition there is also quite a bit of opinion in there about why you think Lewes is a left-leaning town - but wikipedia is based on sources/facts not opinion. The link to the Guardian story about Woodruffs is interesting, but not the basis for a whole paragraph! Simply adding a link to eg the existence of a college, or council in Lewes, doesn't substantiate claims about the demography of the town or the reason for people's voting preferences. Finally, the references to "unemployment and poverty in three large council estates" in Lewes Town are interesting, since I am not sure a) which these large council estates are, nor where you get the data from to back up this statement. I have suggested that whole para is removed. If you don't want to engage here on your talk page, the fine. But I will be reverting the changes by the end of tomorrow, unless I understand why you object. Thanks.Rob at Pells (talk) 12:50, 16 June 2015 (UTC)" Rob at Pells (talk) 12:54, 16 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I would like this page to have some way of making clear that Lewes as the name of the local town council, the district council and the parliamentary constituency can give rise to misunderstandings since each has a different political complexion and each can change and sometimes does with successive elections. That was the purpose of the short sentence which Molly Romanov just removed. Is there a way of reinstating something without straying outside the bounds of what should be on this page? eg "These different governance structures all having the same "Lewes" label can give rise to some confusion since the political make-up of each differs and changes over time - for example the Town of Lewes in 2015 elected a green Town Council, within the wider constituency which elected a Conservative MP who defeated the Lib Dem incumbent."Rob at Pells (talk) 09:56, 27 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry just re-read this and feel quite strongly that a lot has been lost in removing references to the wider political structures! Molly Romanov The point about who represents the people of the town of Lewes in the District Council and in the East Sussex County Council is directly relevant to Lewes and its identity and the information that should be on wiki! That was what those paragraphs all referred to - ie the specific representation from the town. I agree that references to other towns in the district are not relevant here. Also the MP who represents Lewes in Parliament is also directly relevant. Unless Molly Romanov strongly object I would like to restore those paragraphs. They have been happily on these pages in some form or other since 2009! Thanks Rob at Pells (talk) 10:02, 27 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I have never known any serious confusion arising from the name Lewes being used for the town, the district and the constituency. This sort of nomenclature is surely not unusual? I am also dubious about including the political affiliation of district and county councillors, let alone the MP, as I do not think that this is relevant to this article about the town itself. The actual numbers of councillors returned from each the three Lewes wards to the three councils could certainly be relevant, of course. What do others think?Molly Romanov 13:15, 27 June 2015 (UTC)
There was much discussion in Lewes about how a "radical" town could elect a Conservative MP, and I had to repeatedly point out that the town of Lewes is politically and socially significantly different from the surrounding towns and villages. The impact of being the named town in a constituency which is politically at odds with the town is a significant aspect of the town - eg see http://www.mirror.co.uk/usvsth3m/shopkeeper-who-advertised-10-tory-5674286 . I don't see referencing the political affiliation of elected councillors as irrelevant at all (indeed since this wiki page is about Lewes how can factual information about the town not be relevant?). Other wiki pages reference the political affiliation of councillors elected to wider bodies - eg see Totness, Eastbourne, Seaford. And not referencing the local MP seems curious, when almost every other wiki town page does this that I can see.Rob at Pells (talk) 08:32, 28 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I have now inserted some concise tables showing the numbers and party affiliation of elected representatives at all three tiers of local government from all three Lewes wards. There is no way of knowing how any of the Lewes wards voted in either national or Euro elections, so I can see no point in attempting to include data on those. Molly Romanov 18:20, 29 June 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Molly Romanov (talk • contribs)
Should I post here how I think the section should look? Would that be helpful? Rob at Pells (talk) 08:55, 28 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
It is perfectly reasonable to say who the MP, district and county councillors are. Most settlement articles do.Charles (talk) 10:33, 28 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I would suggest therefore reinstating the paragraphs in governance which read (numbered here for clarity): "1) For many years, Lewes was dominated by the Conservatives, both at local and national levels. In 1991, however, the Liberal Democrats won the District Council for the first time, and the constituency returned a Liberal Democrat MP for the first time in 1997. The Conservatives won control of the District Council in 2011, and strengthened this position in 2015. They also won back the parliamentary seat in the 2015 election with Maria Caulfield defeating the incumbent Liberal Democrat of 18 years, Norman Baker by 1,083 votes. 2) In the East Sussex County Council elections of 2009, the town returned an Independent in the Lewes Division with an increased majority over the Liberal Democrats, and again in 2013 with the Green party in second place. 3) In organisational terms, Lewes became one of the non-county boroughs within the then Sussex, East county under the Local Government Act 1933. In 1974, Lewes District Council was formed on 1 April 1974 by the Local Government Act 1972, and was a merger of the former borough of Lewes along with Newhaven and Seaford urban districts and Chailey Rural District. In the 2015 District Council elections, the town of Lewes returned three Greens – the first time Greens had been elected to the District Council – two Liberal Democrats and two Independents. In 2011, six of the seven had been Liberal Democrats. Independent Lewes Councillor Ruth O’Keeffe was appointed Chair of the District Council in 2015." Rob at Pells (talk) 13:12, 29 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I've now added the relavant sections which are pertinent Rob at Pells (talk) 23:29, 29 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I assume you are planning to add some references? Molly Romanov 05:56, 30 June 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Molly Romanov (talk • contribs)
Rob? You *are* going to add some references/citations to that text, aren't you? --[[User:Molly Romanov|Molly Romanov]] (talk) 17:27, 6 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks! On to this now.Rob at Pells (talk) 11:04, 9 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
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Lewes in literature

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Thinking of adding a section on where Lewes features in literature, mainly fiction but also significant items of non-fiction.

Good to know if there are other examples which migth be included as well. Rob at Pells (talk) 15:55, 24 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Added this to the page --Rob at Pells (talk) 12:35, 18 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

With a number of authors having lived in or near Lewes, it features, explicitly or disguised in a number of books. Eve Garnett lived in Lewes and her The Family from One End Street series of children’s stories are set in 'Otwell-on-the-Ouse'. Matthew de Abaitua's dystopian novel If Then is set in a fictionalised Lewes. There are strong parallels with Lewes in the setting of Cliffe House which appears in a story called "Bloody Baudelaire", by R.B. Russell. The Collector by John Fowles is set near Lewes with the characters visiting the town, and the Roy Grace crime series by Peter James (writer) based in Brighton has scenes set in Sussex Police HQ based in Lewes.

Three novels by William Nicholson (writer) - The Secret Intensity of Everyday Life, All the Hopeful Lovers and Golden Hour - are based in Lewes and surrounding villages. "Three Round Towers" by Beverley Elphick is set in and around Lewes at the end of the 18th Century.[1] "Hope Cottage" by Julian Fane is about a family who swap their flat in London for their friends' cottage in Lewes for twelve months. [2]

Lewes also features in a range of works of non-fiction, but notable examples would include To The River by Olivia Laing which follows her walk along the River Ouse and the Old Ways by Robert Macfarlane (writer) features walks on the South Downs close to Lewes.

References

  1. ^ https://www.amazon.co.uk/Three-Round-Towers-Beverley-Elphick/dp/178306420X
  2. ^ https://www.fantasticfiction.com/f/julian-fane/hope-cottage.htm
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