Talk:Madonna/Archive 2

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Archive 5

I'm Breathless is a Studio Album!!

Hi everyone,

I HAD to change all the album pages post I'm B, because this is a studio album. Some fans wrongly think it is a soundtrack...it is NOT a soundtrack as "Dick Tracy" has a seperate soundtrack. I'm B is a studio album! It has always been....

• Hi, don't change the information please. We don't know the rules as to what a studio album or soundtrack is. Madonna.com considers I'm Breathless as a soundtrack as it is listed with the soundtracks and not with the studio albums, you can go and check that if you want to. Ramonojo 03:53, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

• Well I can't think of why Madonna.com would list it as a soundtrack, it is a studio album, it has majority new songs on it. Also, Dick Tracy has its own, seperate soundtrack so I'm B. wouldn't be a soundtrack would it, why would a film have two soundtracks? Also, please don't tell me not to change things, I have the same right to do it as you do!

• This is not a Fan Page remember that, we fans or not fans don't have the right to put something we want just because we want to. Of course you have the right to put whatever you want but stick to the facts. Madonna.com lists I'm Breathless as a soundtrack so it's a soundtrack simple as that. Ramonojo 17:51, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

The title "I'm Breathless: Music from and Inspired by the film Dick Tracy" considers the album as film related - so it's listed as soundtrack by the record company, Billboard, the official site and retail trade. It's not unusual that movies have 2 soundtracks: Many movies have one soundtrack with the instrumental score and one soundtrack with pop/rock songs (Matrix, Resident Evil, Batman - and Dick Tracy). It's not unusual that the pop/rock soundtrack contains many songs that are not used in the movie. Many soundtracks contain songs "inspired by the movie" (Chronicles of Narnia, Batman and Robin, Spongebob Squarepants Movie...). Btw.: Dick Tracy has 3 soundtracks: The score by Danny Elfman, a soundtrack with inspired pop songs and the Madonna album. --Red-Blue-White 01:51, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

External Links Section

There's links to a lot fanpages / tribute pages. And there's links to single articles / interviews. I don't know how necessary they all are but if we keep them I'd like to suggest to group them and make subsections. If every user wants to include their favorite fanpage it might even be useful to create a new list page for Madonna fanpages. Bisco 18:19, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Done. Bisco 12:43, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism

Please do not go onto Wikipedia articles and post vulgar comments on pages. If you do not like an artist/entertainer then simply don't read there articles. Posting vulgar comments is just childish and pointless.

Photo header

How about a new photo for the top of the page? A promotional shot would be better than that poor quality papparazi shot we have now..... —Preceding unsigned comment added by PatrickJ83 (talk • contribs)

A great deal of effort was put into finding a photograph released under a free license. I would like to thank User:Red-Blue-White for their hard work and for bringing this article closer to Wikipedia's ideal of free, reusable content. Jkelly 22:49, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Wouldn't a promo still of her be considered fair use for Wiki? It's used for a page about Madonna, I wouldn't think it would be a big issue.PatrickJ83 00:07, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

We are suppoosed to infringe upon copyrights claiming "fair use" only when we have to. The point of the entire porject is to create a free, reusable encyclopedia, not collect attractive images and republish everything we can get away with. Jkelly 00:45, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

It's great that you all found a free picture, but I have to say that that picture is perhaps one of the most unattractive pictures of Madonna that I've ever seen. -- Andrew Parodi 02:52, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Lol I think she looked sexy in that pic--hottie 15:23, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

The International Federation of the Phonographic Industry list

Hasn't The International Federation of the Phonographic Industry's list of all-time best selling artists been proven false time and again? I'm removing it unless someone proves otherwise.--Downtownstar 15:04, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

So called IFPI Best selling artists of all time LIST probably accurate

According to ESCTODAY (Eurovision Song Contest Today) which is refering to IFPI, here are the 20 (of 150) best selling artists of all time [1] :

1. 01.The Beatles 400,000,000 #02.Michael Jackson 350,000,000 #03.Elvis Presley 300,000,000 #04.Madonna 275,000,000 #05.Nana Mouskouri 250,000,000 #06.Cliff Richard 250,000,000 #07.The Rolling Stones 250,000,000 #08.Mariah Carey 230,000,000 #09.Elton John 220,000,000 #10.Celine Dion 220,000,000 #11.Pink Floyd 210,000,000 #12.Led Zeppelin 200,000,000 #13.Metallica 200,000,000 #14.Julio Iglesias 200,000,000 #15.Queen 180,000,000 #16.AC/DC 180,000,000 #17.Whitney Houston 180,000,000 #18.ABBA 160,000,000 #19.U2 150,000,000 #20.The Jacksons 150,000,000

This "independant" Eurovision site is reliable but there is something that bothered me though. The World Music Awards is always refering to IFPI [2] so why did WMA awarded Mariah Carey as the World's Best-Selling Female Artist of the Millennium in 2000 as she's only number 8 and Madonna number 4? I don't think Madonna has sold 50 million records since 2000 and then outsold Mariah Carey within 5 or 6 years. Anyway, WMA is keeping secret on this list, except the Beatles news on their website (as best selling act of all time), why can't they provide the second, the third, ...? IFPI website is just providing certifications of the year. IMO it is too conflicting for both (WMA and IFPI) to publish officially a list of the best selling artists of all time (with figures) as Music Companies and Majors won't probably accept it (again, it's my opinion). Readerweb 17:16, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

No, Madonna's always been ahead of Mariah, of course. By the way, Madonna has sold about 50M records since 2000 (albums+singles). The problem is simply solved. Mariah has been awarded a diamond award (100M albums sold) and a legend award ('critic's choice' sort of thing) NEVER the Best-selling female artist of the Millemnium. Actually, as the WMA have been trying to award the best selling female artist prize in history to madonna for a few years. This is a one-off, so far, they have not awarded any similar prize. Email the WMA on www.worldmusicawards.com and you will get a clear response from their legal officer stating clearly that the the WMA have never awarded Mariah with such prize. Also, the WMA website does not mention such prize at all, and in 2000, Mariah is down as being awarded a Legend Award (20 other artists have one)

The problem arose when the Mariah spin machine turned the Legend award into something that is not. There is a link that says that, but that is not the WMA website, but the Monte Carlo tourist Information Webpage. The WMA are categorical that they have never given Mariah that prize, but Mariah fans prefer to believe a tourist information centre rather than the wMA themselves. I have already brought this to the attention of Wikipedia- Mariah page- first they deleted the WMA claim, now they have rephrased it as to make it sound true (was 'named' instead of awarded, but introductions do not matter, especially when Mariah insists on being presented as the best selling female artist of all time, and those are up to presenters, not the WMA or IFPI). So, the claim is simply false- WMA confirm, there is little to argue about it, whatever people post, my reply is simple: email the WMA- they will tell you Mariah's never been given the best-selling female artist of the Millemnium prize, actually, that prize does not exist.

Finally, that list has never been confirmed by the IFPI. WB declare in excess of 200M albums (210 now) for Madonna, and WB Beazil's breakdown of single sales adds up to over 100M now (though in 1988 it was 75+M). So, I can see where the Madonna data comes from. Nana Mouskouri, according to her own Website, has 250 betwen platinum and gold disks worldwide, which has been turned into 250M records, however, it's only Euro and US platinums that equal 1M, most certifications are given for much less (even 10,000 copies). To give you an idea, Madonna must have far in excess of 1000 plats worldwide. Mariah Carey, according to Island, has sold 160M albums and 60M singles (that was a few weeks ago), so the total is 220 (never mind the fact that Columbia cheated on the numbers by adding 1/3 to real shipments to all her albuims with them) EMI declard 1 billion for the Beatles (though they said they could only guess), but such number is out of the question, and they are more likely to be in the range of 400M. The IFPI gives certifications on data provided by record companies, so they know about sales of individual artists as we know. However, they do keep track of all certifications, which can be used to add up total shipments for all artists. I will post the link asap, but it will mean long calculations, because, as I said, different countries give platinums, golds, silvers (some countries give silvers) for different sales.

Ok thanks for those explanations. In my opinion Madonna is the best selling female artist ever, she has sold a lot in each decade (80's 90's and still 2000's). I just put this link from another site to show that this so called IFPI list provides figures that actually are not so far from real sales figures. I don't know if it is a fake list or not but it's the worth to take a look at it though. Readerweb 22:01, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

Just to let you know, Readerweb, that editor who answered you is a complete idiot and knows nothing about Mariah Carey's sales. That above list is definitely fake. Here is the link to prove it. One of the editors here emailed the representative of IFPI, and their reply was "IFPI has not published such a list". Read the e-mail yourself here. To show that its legit, you can look at the e-mail of Laura Childs (who is one of the communications officer at IFPI proof).

Now, on to better stuff. I can't say how much Mariah nor Madonna has sold. But I know this for sure: Mariah received an award in 2000 for best-selling of the millenium. Watch this clip and listen very CLOSELY, and you will here Prince Albert saying so himself (why the heck would he lie on his own show?) Watch the clip here You also hear them repeatedly refer to her as the most successful and best-selling of all time (Not once did they call Madonna's name). In fact, they say Mariah is the best-selling, only surprassed by Beatles and Elvis (that means she is the third best selling overall, male or female.) How can they say that the prize does not exist? Why would so many sources life? Pictures anyone? I hope this will convince you, and put this silly debate to rest. Unlike the editor above, I have given proof for all my main points. All the other did was speculate. 69.196.21.5 23:57, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

NO, here is the root of all problems- prince Albert is awarding Mariah with a Diamond Award- for 100M albums sold. That is the prize, the fact that in the introduction he says 'best selling blah, blah' does not change the prize, which, stated clearly by himself as well, is for 100M records sold. He could have introduced her as the tallest artist in the world, that would not have changed the prize into 'tallest of the world'; would it? He says a lot of things in the introduction. 1st- he states what the prize is for (100M), then he goes on to sing her praises, saying quite a few things, amongst which, he says (not the WMA or the iFPI) she's the best-selling femaile artist of teh millemnium- cool- nice intro- the prize does not change!!!!

All right people. SO CALLED IFPI LIST is definately a fake (thanks for the proof). Concerning Mariah Carey, yes indeed she's been awarded as Best selling (female) artist of the millenium by WMA in 2000 as Michael Jackson received the same year the Best selling pop artist of the millenium award ("best selling SINGLE artist of all time" said Prince Albert) but meanwhile I was told that Madonna refused this award as she didn't recognize it so WMA gave it to the female artist behind her, Mariah Carey (but I don't have any proof though). According to WMA, the best selling act of all time are The Beatles followed by Michael Jackson as Best selling (single) artist of all time, and so Mariah Carey as best selling female artist of all time, and that's the official statments. However, Michael Jackson and Elvis Presley sales figures are disputed because of Elvis non certified records in the late 50's (IFPI didn't take it into account). I respect Mariah Carey's phenomenal career but Madonna is definately a true pop icon worldwide since the 80's. IMO if Mariah was awarded in 2000 as Best female seller ever I think that she was neck to neck with Madonna and that could change yearly, one could sold out the other.

Finally it's up to Music Companies to provide their sales figures (manufactured and shipped records) to countries record associations (RIAA, CRIA, BPI, SNEP, etc...) and not simply a guess statement just like EMI did with the Beatles 1 billion thing. BY THE WAY : PLEASE SIGN YOUR COMMENTS THANKS!! Readerweb 11:21, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Just to cut a long story short: Im glad that you accepted the proof. And please, dont believe anyone that WMAs wanted to give Madonna the awards first. Why would Madonna reject such an honor? She has been to practically every award show hasnt she? Thats just nonsense. And you really believe that mariah would accept an awards that was "passed on" to her? Come on, be sinsible. The clip state facts. Plain and simple. I agree that Madonna is more successful that Mariah. She is truly more influential, iconic and artistic than Mariah might ever be. But she just hasnt outsold her. If anything, the real race is between Celine dion and Mariah, not madonna. Also, there has always been inconsistent data for Madonna album sales. In 2000, it was reported that it was 120 million. In 2003, it was 150 million, by 2004 it had escalated to 250 million, and by 2006 it is back down to 200 million. who can we believe? IFPI is legit. They rely on collecting sales data, not on record companies (if so then Madonna who be touted as the best selling as her record company claim 200, or 250 depends on the year.). However, IFPI have done their investigation and have said otherwise. Now rest in peace. 69.196.21.5 03:35, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Yep, nothing much better to say, I totally agree (usually I always discuss one point lol). We all know how record companies are. IFPI, WMA, Soundscan, etc.. that are the only organisations I'm sticking to, the rest is all speculations or sales promotion. However, it could be good to discuss on such things : bringing fake stories and real facts together so as to expose the most accurate conclusion. Anyway thanks for your explanation again and please sign your comment (or SIGN IN) we do need people like you around here. Readerweb 10:13, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Nope, Wikipedia does not need people like me anymore. I had an account here, but I closed it. I will be back though. My account: before/ now. Orane

Well actually on 2000 it was Guiness Book Of World Records that stated that number to be 120 million (for albums alone) not Warner. It was until 2004 that indeed Warner Bros. said 275 million (but it was albums and singles all together) now at the end of 2005 they said 200 million albums (singles where not included) if you remember well when Madonna went to the David Letterman Show (when she said the F word so many times) David introduced her saying something like "Madonna 80 million albums sold" (that was in 1994) so do you really think that Guiness got the 120 right? she just sold 40 million copies in between 1994 and 2000? (that would include some sales for Erotica, all sales for Bedtime Stories, Something To Remember, Evita, Ray Of Light and some from Music and plus some more sales of her other pre-Erotica albums which The Immaculate Collection still was selling by the hundred thousands) Guiness just got that wrong. Just think about it. Ramonojo 18:28, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Frankly, I dont give a damn what it is. All I know is that even if its a million, we all know that its a lie because according to the World music awards (and everyone else), its Mariah Carey who is the best selling of all time. And lastly, Warner Bros has never said 275 milliom, and two, "albums" and "records" are often used interchangabely. Fans of Madonna will do anything to prove that she is the best-selling, when in fact, she is not. 69.196.21.5 03:44, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

I DON'T CARE WHAT THE WMA SAID AND DID TO MARIAH. They basically ignored the two greatest selling female artists of all time: Madonna and Nana! Since when has the WMA existed? It never existed in the 80's and 70's! Mariah has debuted in 1990. How can they know that Mariah has outsold Madonna when it didn't even exist in the 80's? Don't say that Madonna's sales are fake! What about Elvis and the Beatles's time when the official scan system didn't exist? Their sales number are still valid but not Madonna's? According to IFPI, Madonna has outsold Mariah! Don't whine because Madonna has internationally sold more albums and singles than Mariah's! If Madonna's sales are fake, so are the Beatles, Michael jackson, Elvis, and Mariah!!! Because there have been no international official scan systems!

Warner Bros. said in their official statement in 2005 that Madonna has sold over 200 million 'albums'! That does not include singles! Madonna has at least sold more than 75 million sinlges worldwide according to WB Brazil! That total gives her 275 million records in total! So the figure on Madonna by IFPI is accurate!

And all these Mariah's Fans are not happy about Madonna's sales figure because the so-called WMA named her the best selling female artist of all time! Then again, on Mariah's part her record company estimates her sales in albums and singles. There's no official tracking system for sales in the world! Even the WMA show didn't track the sales on their own. So Mariah's fans, including the group called TEAM L.A.M.B. seem to want to cut down Madonna's sales as they want and to take away the title 'the best selling female artist of all time' from Madonna! It won't work unless you provide with the proof stating how Mariah outsold Madonna since the 80's!

For the truth as of now, Madonna remains the most successful female artist and the best selling as well!

I have been reading the comments posted here and i feel the need to express my opinion on all of this. Not necessarily as a Madonna fan but out of fairness. Much of what i am reading here seems to be a blatant attempt to target one particular article and discredit the artist based on certain people's obvious dislike for the artist. For starters, so much has been said to discredit Madonna as the biggest selling international artist yet little has been done to PROVE that Mariah Carey is in fact the biggest selling. Where is the proof and the numbers? From the very start Columbia records (Mariah's first record company during the 1990's) and Tommy Mottola were doing everything they could to prep Mariah as the top selling female artist. Anyone who reads Billboard magazine on a regular basis like i do can attest to this. They were over-certifying her releases (both Music Box and Daydream were given diamond awards yet as of year end 2005 neither album has sold 8 million copies in the USA according to Soundscan), back when Rainbow was released in 1999 it was certified 3X Platinum 8 weeks after it's release yet 7 years later it has yet to sell 3 million in the USA. They would deliberately hold off commercial releases for certain singles to not break her record of number 1 singles. And i also remember an advertisement from Columbia in 1995 before the release of Daydream promoting it's release that stated Mariah was the biggest selling female artist of all time. That is ridiculous. At that time she had only released 3 studio albums, a Christmas album and a Unplugged EP. At that point not only was Madonna outselling her but so was Whitney, Janet Jackson and Celine Dion. Everyone is so quick to discredit Warner's Press release of Madonna selling 200 Million albums but why is an award given to Mariah any more valid proof of sales? For all we know Columbia may have bought that award for Mariah. Those types of things happen alot more often than anyone would think. Given a recent article in Billboard concerning Columbia paying radio stations under the table to play certain artists (ie. Jessica Simpson) this may not be so hard to believe. Also, this award may have been submitted to Madonna who declined in 2000 since at the time she was pregnant with her son and also working on her album Music in London and may not have wanted to attend and/or had the time to attend. So the award then went to Mariah instead. As far as MAdonna's number of 200 Million albums. This number is not so off base. Even if this is based on certifications and not sales, Madonna as of 2006 would have to have sold in the ballpark of 180-190 million albums including current sales of Confessions on a Dance Floor. If that is the case then she still has a lead over Mariah. Considering the Warner has not re-certified many of MAdonna's early released since the late 1990's and the fact that her first three releases were remastered and re-released in 2001 along with all her current sales for COADF it is quite possible she has sold 200 million or even more. Warner has in fact under-certified some of Madonna's releases. Music for instance was not certified 3X platinum until year end 2005 when album sales (soundscan plus internet sales) passed 3 million already. Plus, although Mariah may be outselling Madonna now in the USA, there is no denying that Madonna is far more successful than Mariah internationally. Confessions on a Dance Floor sold twice as many copies outside the USA in a four month period as what The Emancipation of Mimi sold in 11 months time. Lastly, as far as this being a poorly written article or too much like a fanpage. Check out the articles on here for Mariah Carey, Whitney Houston, Janet Jackson and Celine Dion. This article is no more a fan page than any of those articles. Please read article Amber (singer). This article reads much more like a fan conducted interview than an encyclopedia entry. This article needs to be edited. And as far as being poorly written, I have read several entries on here (including Jennifer Lopez) that has several grammitical and spelling errors. If there are things that can be done to improve this article, that is great. But i feel like there are more people approaching this article with the desire to edit it based on their own dislike for the artist. — Mikeinrdgpa 00:38, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

No one will even comment on that. Mariah bought award? Madonna refused it? Madonna-fans will come up with anything. Geez. 69.196.21.5 23:31, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

No one will even comment on that? I believe you did comment on it. OK, my comment about Columbia buying an award for Mariah was far-fetched. However, if Mariah did in fact outsell Madonna then someone please post numbers that prove this. An award does not prove this, actual sales figures do. As of 2006, Mariah is listed as selling 160 million albums worldwide and Warner Music issued a statement stating Madonna has sold 200 million albums worldwide. If Warner's numbers are fake and Mariah has in fact outsold Madonna then where are the sales figures that prove this? MJW 19:21, 1 April 2006 (UTC)MikeinrdgpaMJW 19:21, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

Where's the proof? I mean the sales number saying Mariah having outsold Madonna, not that overrated and political World Music Awards trophy!

The proof is in the trophy, which you continue to overlook. We do not need to say anymore. I'm sure that if Madonna got that trophy, you guys would be pushing it in our faces. We don't need to discuss sales figures. I don't know Mariah Carey's sales, nor do I know Madonna's because alas, no tracking system exists. And its so odd that when Warner claim their outrageous figures, no one else can find such figures. 200 million? Please. Guinness was impartial, and they said 120. She has not sold 80 million albums since then. Britney Spears, who is the best-selling female artist since the start of this millennium has sold 60 million records at best, and thats since her debut in 1998 (source). And notice something else: Warner claimed 150 in 2003 (link) (link is now dead, so I just presented the google search page. Warner bros site is the first result, and the info which is bloded says: "More than 150 million albums sold worldwide. ... Now Madonna, the most popular and significant female artist in pop music".) In 2004, Warner said 250 albums for Madonna's reinvention tour press statement (press statements)— a hell of a jump from 120 in 2000, or even 150 in 2003 (a 130 million jump between 2000 and 2004 to be exact). However, back in 2005, it's down to 200 million albums. How odd. Does anyone else think its just for promotion? :). We dont need to carry on with Mariah's sales. They might only be 160, but atleast they are both realistic and consistently consistent. By highlighting the inconsistencies in Madonna's sales, we simple show that they're false. Deal with it. She's still more successful and more iconic than Mariah Carey (I'm not disputing that), but she just hasn't sold more. 69.196.21.5 06:09, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

There isn't any such trophy!!! The prize given in that video is the Legend Award, email the WMA and they'll tell you. How Prince Albert of Monaco decides to introduce Mariah (or agrees to introduce her, as we ALL know quite well she insists on being introduced as she wants...) is not a prize. There's a difference between being introduced as something and being awarded a prize as something. Hundreds of artists have been introduced a the biggest and the best. Even if there was a prize, that would not mean much, the WMA are just a charity, not an official body. Plus, yes the Guinness Book of Records says 120M, but the data was 1985, by their own adnmission, and yes, Madonna's sold 80M albums since then(40M since 2000). Even if it was since 2000, Mariah could not have caught up since she's only sold about 12M albums since (including dismal flops), while Madonna's sold almost 40.

No, you haven't read what I said! The World Music Awards show has ignored the two greatest selling female artists of all time: Madonna and Nana! Like I said, the WMA trophy doesn't mean anything without being based on actuall facts! The trophy doesn't bring the truth and justice about who is the best selling. Where's the proof of saying that Mariah has outsold Madonna? I will bring this source which says Mariah is behind Madonna by IFPI! Don't say that it's all fake because I brought this source from Mariah's section at the bottom of Mariah albums discography. You, Mariah fans, denied that Madonna's 275 mill albums sold is not true and valid but here you are!

And you are making a statement about Warner Bros. saying that Madonna's sales are different. But again, Sony often promoted Mariah was the best selling female artist of all time even in 1995 when there were more female artists who sold more than Mariah back then! Sony often and commercially tended to name Mariah the best selling without much proof. And the World Music Awards started giving her the trophies when she was with sony and Tommy in the 90's! And they kept doing it since then. And don't you think that they would keep doing that because of all the promotion involved and old history with Mariah whom Sony and Tommy supported in accordances with the WMA show? They even created new awards for her too. It's all political party between Sony and the WMA show of Monaco Prince!

You think only Warner did this but Mariah's company is all honest? Everyone knows that Mariah's recording companies, including Sony with Tommy Motorla, her ex-husband, did eveything they could to make her ahead of Madonna's sales and promotion and others. But still Mariah failed! There's no proof that she outsold Madonna! She is behind Madonna! Madonna=200 mill albums sold. Mariah=160 mill albums sold!

Again, I have not seen any proof in articles or list or stats, except the overrated and political World Music Award show, that Mariah Has outsold Madonna!

Bring your source to prove it! I brought mine!

Madonna is the best selling female artist of all time! Right behind her, Nana remains! Deal with that!

The WMA never said that and categorically deny it. Check their website- Mariah says she got the prize (though she's been asked by the WMA to stop referring to it in her introductions), but they never gave it to her!

Do you realise that you keep regurgitating the same argument over and over? World music awards did this, they did that, Tommy bought awards, WMAs are political. Those are all unsourced speculations from someone who is naive and thick-headed. There is a reason why WMAs ignored Madonna and Nana: they simply haven't sold that much, despite foolish fans trying to claim otherwise. Why would they repeatedly award Celine Dion (whos has like 10 WMAs), Whitney Houston (who has like 6), Michael Jackson (who has 12) and many other artist, but ignore Madonna? If Mariah could buy awards, so could Madonna (she's richer, isnt she?), so thats just stupid to even mention. They created new awards for Mariah Carey? What new awards? Come up with something better, please. What, are you getting desperate? Running out of ideas there?

Once again, the proof is in the 16 gold trophies that were awarded by IFPI through the WMAs. According to them, they conduct a through inquiry of sales, then they award the best-seller. Carey had always received the awards legitimately. She started receiving in 1995, after Music Box sold nearly 30 milion copies (that's more than any album Madonna has ever sold). While the album was released in 1993, you'd find that Whitney Houston's The Bodyguard outsold it and received the awards in 1994. The figures correspond since then. She received some for Daydream which also sold more than any Madonna albums, and others.

Mariah has probably sold 160 million albums. That is enough to guarantee her as the best-selling. Why? Simply because no female has sold more. Warner can claim 500 million for all we damn well care. However, no one has recognised that figure, and Madonna hasn't been given any special awards for it, which she would if it were ture. Afterall, she would be the best-selling if that were the case. I bet you next year it will change. What do you predict, 400 million? How about 750? Or better yet, they'll say 300 million albums, and you jackasses will add 80 million singles to that figure and say 380 million records (even though clearly, albums and records are used interchangebly). Boy I tell you lol. I know that I can't change your mind, and I'm not trying to. You can continue living in that fantasy if it makes you happy. We here in reality know the truth. I only hope that one day you can wake up and smell the coffee, and the World Music awards. <LMAO>. 69.196.21.5 15:43, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

LIE!!! Music Box sold 30M according to her fansite, but you can put all the sales of 40 markets together and it adds up to 17M. This is including all Europe, all the Americas, Russia, China, most of Asia, all Oceania and South Africa. Where the hech has it sold the other 13M, on the Moon. Yeah, Mariah should be known as the artists who cane vene sell on the moon. The same applies to all her albums with Columbbia- all her sales were almost doubled by the record company, and still, her tally dioes not add up to Madonna's. None of Mariah's albums has ever sold miore than 17M, whatever Columbia declared- they overtly cheated in teh US, let alone in countries where sales are not monitored. the truth is that she should have sold on the MOOON to have sold what Columbia said- and it's still less than what Madonna has as certifications!!!! (Plats)

Still no proof but a curse? You really seem a 'smart' fan of Mariah's, don't you?

Yeah right! You are showing your true color now and even nicely cursing a little! You proved that you are one of the L.A.M.B members from Mariah's crazy fan clubs! You just want to diss Madonna's sales. And You claim that her sales are invalid and I'm the one who exaggerates Madonna's sales number? Can't you read? Warner Bros. said Madonna has sold 200 mill albums as you kept insisting that IFPI's list was fake! And What about Mariah's fan club site? Doesn't it say that Mariah has sold 160 mill albums? So, Madonna's sales of 200 mill is fake because it's Warner Bros. and Madonna but Mariah's sales of 160 mill is official and true because it's Def Jam and Mariah Carey? You are such a joke! You can't think rationally whatsoever! But You seem very desperate and hard that you are trying everything you can to cut Madonna's sales number down and make Mariah look good! Typical L.A.M.B! I know your tactics! It ain't work!

Yes, Mariah has tons of awards from the WMA show! And where's the proof that she outsold Madonna? Where's the evidence? No answer!

I don't care how many daydream albums have sold! Still in overall sales, Mariah is behind Madonna! There's no evidence in the world saying that Mariah has outsold Madonna because it hasn't happened! Yes Celine and Whitney have been awarded but they still haven't outsold Madonna overall! Neither has Mariah!

You want to make me believe that Mariah has sold 160 mill but Madonna didn't sell 200 mill albums? You really make me laugh! You are just uncomfortable with the number because you are a crazy fan of Mariah's and mad as Madonna's sales number is higher!

You are in denial that Madonna has outsold Mariah so far!

All I can say is that you, Mariah and her crazy maniacs, keep following Madonna because you are still behind the sales of 40 mill albums as of now! And smell a cup of your coffee in your Mariah's chaotic world, enlighten yourself with the fact that Madonna is the best selling female, and try to indulge the useless awards from Monaco and remind yourself, 'boy, money works really good!'

Since you say that I keep continuing this, why don't you stop talking to me until you find your evidence and proof that I have asked for! Do your homework! Otherwise, I will keep laughing at your childish and immature tactics!

You and Mariah can take tons of the political World Music Awards without evidence anytime because it means nothing! We all know with various sources, which Mariah's crazy fans don't want to accept, that Madonna is the BEST SELLING FEMALE ARTIST OF ALL TIME! Deal with that!

Oh, I'm sorry, calling WMAs "political" and making up false claim about them arent childish? You really have nothing more to say about them do you? You say that they are political, they were bought ... whats next, Mariah stole them? No, wait, she held them at gun-point? ha ha ha. Typical "Madge" fans. You are guilty of the same thing I am. I really dont care about giving proof at this point. I am not in authority to do so. Those who are in authority (IFPI and WMAs) have done their own research. And whether you and I carry on, it won't change the fact that the authorities have spoken, and there's nothing Warner Bros can do to change that fact (even if they claim 1 billion albums in their next press statement).You can go on, but the fact remains: The IFPI list is fake. Read the (confirmation e-mail). Plus you claim that Madonna is the best selling. Can you provide 10 sources that support that claim, because I can find 1 million different articles, press statements, biographies and awards that substantiate my claim. Album sales are ever fluctuating and unrelaible, so quoting them will prove nothing. 69.196.21.5 20:01, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

There are hundred of sources, and if you Email the WMA themselves they will tell you that Mariah never got the priize, which has actually been offered to Madonna...

You have failed to provide the proof but asked for 10 sources? I already gave you mine! For easier finding, go to your obese Mariah's albums discography and simply click IPFI of the overall albums sales number and list! 'The IFPI reported in March 2006 that she had sold a total of 230 million records (albums and singles) worldwide', it says. There you have it.

Other aritsts' sales number might be incorrect but Madonna's is accurate! I already mentioned why! Do you want me to repeat it? Warner Bros. said 200 mill albums sold and Warner Brazil said 75 mill singles! And are you smart enough to add them? Maybe not, I will do that for you! It's 275 mill records with albums and singles together! Oh, you will say it's fake because Warner said it! Yeah then Mariah's figure of 230 mill records of albums and singles is fake as well because it's Island Def and her fan site claims! I'm only being fair! Still, on here Mariah is way behind and has a long way to follow!

You are such a joke! And you are not making it any different! You are the one who says the same thing over and over again like Mariah sings!

Again, Mariah can take one billion of the POLITICAL World Music Awards without being based on the facts! It's nothing! And her record company can say that she may have sold 1 trillion albums in your dream world by becoming the best selling!

in this real world, Madonna remains the best selling female artist of all time! And Nana is right behind! Mariah is short of 40 mill albums behind Madonna's! She hasn't come close! so wait and keep following and watching Madonna's exhilarating ride!

Deal with it! And don't forget to do your homework, poor Mariah maniac!

Oh, you poor pathetic thing. Back to it again are you? "WMAs are political", "Warner says this". And you still havent come to terms with the fact that IFPI confirmed that they have no idea who started the rumour. Oh well. And by the way, stupid, we do not mix sources (your bit about one source claiming 200 and another claiming 75 million singles, so you add them. Did the site that claimed 75 million singles also claim 200? I bet you it didnt). Hmmm. Say what you want, but according to WMAS, mariah is...finish it. Do you really think calling them "political" means a thing? It makes you look pathetic, and childish. Where is your source for that? Oh and "You are the one who says the same thing over and over again like Mariah sings!"? Atleast she sings. In case you didnt notice, this is a music industry. Madonna on the other hand.. well, she tries, but if she didnt have a good body for a 50 year old, she'd be right there in the gutter. I wonder what publicity stunt she'll do next? She already "broke" her arm, stripped, kissed Britney. Maybe she'll kill herself. That's sure to spark sales by another 150 million albums by June. Anyway, I'm bored with this conversation. Its too bad that you cannot change the minds of IFPI, WMA, the media, nor the 1 billion+ people who watched the WMAs. They know the truth. By the way, I have a friend who is a psychiatrist. Do you want his number? I'm getting really concerned for you. Its not healthy. lol 69.196.21.5 05:00, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Nope- the IFPI nor the WMA ever said Mariah's the best selling (The Guinness book of Records is sanctioned by the IFPI). Prince Albert did.

Be concerned about yourself! You can keep the number and go for it like Mariah had a nerve breakdown a few years ago after her series of flops! That was too much drama, wasn't it? It seems like old time! And you follow her footstep and that's like a moment of 'a son like a father'! Go for it, loser!

No, you can't think rationally! Warner Bros. didn't release about Madonna's sales number in singles! They only did with her albums! Warner Brazil did with singles! Don't blame it on me because I am not the one who released it, you moron! Why don't you whine and complain about it to Warner Bros. then? And make sure to tell them that Mariah is the best selling if you may! And you will be one of those crazy Mariah's lunatics!

Well, wasn't Mariah the one who used publicity stunt and all pathetic drama with her breakdown at the hospital for people's sympathy? It was too much to take for everyone in the world! Why don't you join her at the mental hospital next time and discuss how great and wonderful Madonna is? Mariah already said Madonna is a legend, so it will be good to discuss it together! And you and Mariah can just envy Madonna's status of being the highest selling female artist too! Nice time!

I'm sure you are the one who spread about Mariah's sales number of 230 mill from her pathetic fan site! Yeah, keep being that way! Like I said, Mariah is BEHIND Madonna's sales overall. And she is still short of 40 mill albums! And wait and sell more for a few years! Before surpassing Madonna's sales number, truth won't change: MADONNA IS THE BEST SELLING FEMALE! DEAL WITH THAT!

You showed your ugly nature by wishing someone to die for commercial success! That's what you are made of and where your mental world is heading! You really are the one who needs to see a psychiatrist, your friend, and tell him that you are sick of and mad at Madonna's higher sales! You will be the joke of the day! Maybe next time Mariah can join you there!

AND make sure to be joyous with those 'POLITICAL' and BOGUS trothies! Be proud!

Well said.

I have to tell you, that comeback was very disappointing. No challenge. You have a lot to learn. Anyway, I have no time to teach you. I don't spend my time concerning myself with trivialities.

Anyway, I digress. Nope, I dont think Mariah has reached 230 million records. Infact, I think that she might be in the 150-175 range. But still, that's enough to guarantee her title. Mariah used publicity stunt? No my friend, she used talent to solidify her crown, then she fell down, and now she's back up (yes, shes added 2 more #1 singes, plus 10 more records from TEOM). Oh, yeah, Mariah said that Madonna was a legend. She didn't say "is a legend". In fact, her exact words were : To be honest, I really haven't paid attention to Madonna since I was in like 7th or 8th grade, when she used to be popular. It's so funny huh? You can watch the clip here. Anyway, how about the idea I gave? Maybe you could call Madonna's website, and you all could plan her next stunt. She's done everything, so you guys are gonna have to think up something huge that will distract the public from her lack of talent. Again, I suggest that she ends it. Thats sure to help her reach another 300 million by mid-August.

Just a thought though: if in 2004 her album sales were 250, and now its back to 200, whatever happened to the 50 million albums? Did 50 million people finally came to their senses and ask for a refund? I'm still trying to figure things out. Anyway, call me. I still have my friends number. I told him about you, and he said that its best if you contacted him right away. He thinks its serious, and I'm inclined to agree. 69.196.21.5 17:58, 3 April

2006 (UTC)

Funny, if you think Mariah's sold 175M and that would be enough to guarantee her the title, well, Madonna has platinums around the world (not all countries give platinums and stuff) for 180M albums alone, and 100M singles are down in the annals of history (actually, it's 112 something million singles). Mariah only has proved certification for less than 100M albums (60 from the US even if then she sold less than she got certified for, and that's a fact! The only artist EVER to get two (not one, but two)diamonds for selling 7 million records!! What a cheat!)... Work it out! Even Daydream has only 3 plats in teh EU, and quite a few of her albums didn't even make it to plat in the EU. Madonna collects 5/11M copies in the EU for every album... (10/11 TB, 11+TIC,...) Funny also, because I agree that Mariah has problably sold only 150M singles+albums, as Columbia overtly cheated by miles, which places Mariah as the 5th Best-selling female artist (Madonna-Nana-Celine--Whitney-Mariah). Mariah's sales have notoriouslty been inflated- Columbia cheated overtly with the RIAA, her albums sold 7/10M less each than Columbia declared (Music Box sold 10M between the US and the EU- where the heck has it sold the other 18M?) At l;east madonna's numbers add up!

No one cares if Mariah thinks Madonna used to be popular, the truth is Madonna sold 7M albums and 6M singles in 4 months, smashing 2 world records with one album and collecting more number ones with Confessions than Mariah has in her whole career. Mariah's sold 8M albums in a year, and that's only thanks to US airplay. Confessions is set to outsell Emancipation in a month or so, and it was publuished 9 months later. Mariah can say whatever she wants, she's just a jealous cow. Madonna rules the world and that's it.

Listen neither the IFPI nor the WMA have any data that does not come from Record Companies. All their sdata is FROM the respectutive record companies therefore no doubt: WB declare 200M+ albunms sold for Madonna before Confesstions, Islan declare 160M aafter Emancipation, WB declare 75M singles in 1988, Island declare 60M for Mariah so far- do the sums yourself- Madonna's far ahead. The WMA or whoever can give prizes as they wish (the prize above is again 100M albums, the presentation does not matter- that's agreed with the artist anyway), record companies are in charge of declaring sales, not the IFPI, not the WMA, not Top of the Pops, record companies produce and distribute albuums and are the ONLY ONES who know whow nmany records artists sell (as they pay them). No doubt when Mariah was with Columbia her record company overdeclared sales (by about 30/40M albums), but still it does not make a difference because Island declare about 80M records for Mariah less than WB declare for Madonna. FULL STOP>

The IFPI DO NOT ACTUALLY KNOW HOW MANY RECORDS INDIVIDUAL ARTISTS SELL, as they monitor markets and companies, not artists, nor do the WMA. IT IS SIMPLY NOT THEIR JOB. Record companies do that, and the sums are easy- Madonna about (past) 300M, Mariah 220 (cheating).

Guess what? We have been over sales since like 10 days ago. If you have nothing new to add, then.... Oh and about record companies and albums. Yes, record companies are the ones that publish albums. However, they know how much albums have been shipped, not how much have been sold. The authorities (IFPI/RIAA etc) do that. According to WMAs and IFPI "The world's best-selling artists are determined by a thorough inquiry conducted by the organization [IFPI]". "The winners are selected purely on record sales." As I said, Warner can jump back and forth with sales for Madonna (Who knows, they may claim 1 billion in their next press statement), but in the end, no one recognises their inflated sales figures (especially IFPI). Lastly, do you really think that Madonna broke more records than Mariah with her last album? Dream on. Nevermind if it was helped by airplay; it shows the popularity of the song, stupid. 69.196.21.5 02:35, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

NO IFPI and RIAA are informed by record companies about shipments- in fact certifications are given on shipments and in most countries (UK e.g.) they need to be formally reqested by the record company. Both IFPI and RIAA count shipments as sales. Some countries (US/UK e.g.) alsio have a way of monitoring retail sales (soundscan) most don't, yes the same real sales system that says Music Box has sold 7.5Millioon but is 10 Plat in the US because Columbia declared 10M to the RIAA. Do you think the IFOPI goes out and counts sales in every single country? Im quite a few countrie we don't even have a way of counting (not unknown countries- bug markets such as Italy or Spain have no way of counting retail sales). The source of the iFPI and RIAA data is, guess what, record companies. ONLY record companies know exact sales- they know how many records have gone out of stock (sold out) as they receive requests for further shipments, that is the only precise way of measuring worldwide sales.

Read the IFPI end-ofyear sales.... Exactly the same as declared shipments from record companies- there you go. Of course they get their data from record companies. You seem to believe the IFPI have a 'magic' wand and know how many records are sold- well I'll tell you they can't even monitor all the markets in the world. They just collect data from record companies- that is the law.

Yes Madonna's got 41#1s (and that will enter the Guinness Book of Records next year) with COAD and 41 with Hung up, which is also the best selling single of the decade and the longest number one in the world Chart (15 weeks tie with Cher), also, with Sorry, Madonna's spent 19 weeks at #1 in the world chart. which is the longest time ever. Mariah's Emancipation has 5 number 1s in the world. You can count all her number 1s around the world in her career, and it hardly adds up to 40. So YES COAD alone has more #1s than Mariah's tot and HAS entered the Guinness Book of Records. Finally, no way Mariah has outsold Madonna: reason- simple. They have sold about the same number of records in the US, but Mariah is mainly a US (and used to be Japan, not anymore) phenomenon. Worldwide, Madonna outsells Mariah by 3 to 1 (In fact, of the 8M copies sold of tEOM, only 2.5 are international sales, of which less than 2M are accounted for). In Europe, Mariah's album are lucky to go single Plat, Madonna has several 6/7plats (and True Blue sold 11M in Europe, but plats were not given then). COAD has so far sold about 1.4M in the US, and almost 6M in the rest of the world, having already shipped 4M in Europe alone (next certification soon). All around the world, Madonna ouutrsells Mariah hands down, and having about the same amounts of records sold in the US, there's no doubt Madonna's sold more. If Mariah's sold 60M albums in the US, less than 20M in the EU, where the heck has she sold the other 80M declared? Even so, she would be behind Madonna. At least, data adds up for Madonna, with 130M albums sold in 2/3 of the world market (US+EU) and the US being her weakest market, it is reasonable to think the other 3rd has sold 1/3 of her total (70M). With Mariah having sold less than 50% of her albums in 2/3 of the market (US=EU) including her strongest market, it would mean that she's sold huge numbers in the remaining 3rd of the world, which does not seem to be the case at all. Also, Even her syuper selling Music-Box has only sold 12M between US and EU and 17M counting 99% of the world market. Madonna's breakdown of album sales adds up to 90% of WB's declaration (reasonable- due to missing markets) Mariah's adds up to 60%- Let's be clear about it. Columbia could say what they wanted and have all teh rights to declare what they want- still numbers don't add up. Even so, pretending Mariah's number add up, her recoprd company declares 80 million less than Madonna's. End of. The Guinness bOok of Records has old data and was not updated for 6 years- in which Madonna's outsold Mariah 3 to 1 again. The data in there is 1995- published in teh Book in 2000.

Even in the US- Mariah Land- Madoona's certified 64plats for Albums, Mariah 64 (wwith sales much lower than that , given the freebees- diamonds for 7 and 8 Mill instead of 8...) and Madonna's actually,not 20, but 26Mill singleas in certification [3]), Mariah 22... I can't see how Mariah could have surpassed madonna in the rest world where she's mostly a midget compared with Madonna...

Sorry, I was wrong, actually, the RIAA says Madonna's still 4 platinums ahead of Mariaheven in the US (Mariah Land) check the RIAA website... [4] and considering that Mariah has at least 7 platinums that she never sold in the US (this is a fact- she has two dianmonds one for selling7.5M, one for 7M, Madonna's platinums have both sold in excess iof 10M)- that means that even in Mariah Land US Madonna is AT LEAST 11 Million ahead of Mariah, in the EU Madonna is 55Million ahead of Mariah, so where the heck would Mariah beat Madonna?

Yeah whatever. All you can do is ramble incoherent bull. How the hell can record companies know the exact sales? If that was so, then everyone would know who sold what, and it would also mean that there is an official tracking system in place. However, there isn't!!! You can ramble all you want, but in the end, it all comes down to the fact that IFPI confirmend the list was wrong (sorry for the heartbreak, again, my friend's a psychiatrist), and they said that Mariah was best-selling in 2000, and again in 2003. If record companies provided these sales, then Madonna would have received the title, as Warner has claimed 200, (or 250, or 275, or 150, or 120... well, it depends on what month they released their promotional press statements). Oh, and I guess Island Def Jam bought the 4 WMAs that Mariah won last year? Or is it that Sony paid them to continue giving them to her until 2010?

You know what? To tell the truth, this conversation is uninspiring. I'm gonna go listen to We Belong Together, you know, one of the most successful singles of all time. I think Sales and charts achievements for Mariah Carey should give you some info. Don't loose sleep of the fact that Mariah is the best selling. Also, any replies will be ignored, though I'm sure that you are desperate enough to come back with your typical pathetic, essay-type responses. 69.196.21.5 19:39, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

OK, I usually do not say that, but you do seem not to be getting the point.

1- Of course record companies know how much they sell- It's their job and they get the money, pay the artists accoringly etc.

2- Record companies are not legally required to declare album sales- so they can declare whatever they want.

3- The IFPI receive data from record companies- no one else could provide such data. who do you think they get it from? Charity shops? Ask the IFPI, they will tell you they receive data from Record Companies. If you don't believe it from the horse's mouth...

4- The WMA are not an official authority- just a charity. They have no power to claim they know more than record companies.

5- Mariah never received the 'Best Selling Female Artist of the Millemnium Award' from the WMA. Ask them, check their website- they will confirm such prize DOES NOT EXUIST. Don't come up with the Video from youtube- The presenter spells clearly that it's a Diamond award for having sold 100M albums. That is the prizze she got. The fact that he intrioduced her as the best selling artist of the millemnium has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE PRIZE: lots of artists are introduced as this and that- introductions are agreed with the artist if not dictated by the artist and we know quite well Mariah insits on being introduced as the best sellin female artist of the Millemium. The WMA never gave her that award. ASK THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you don't believe THEM, then you're a lost case. The presenter may even suck her toes- that's not a prize!

6- Lots of record companies have been accused of boosting sales (EMI, Columbia), but WB has always been reliable.

7- Brekdowns of sales in 85% of the world markets (that's official- just adding up certifications one gets past it easily) show Madonna's sold in the range of 180+ M records. 200M with the remaining countries is not at all unexpected (actually, Madonna's likely sold 210M now. Adding up Mariah's sales in the same xountries, one gets to hardly 100M- 160 from Columbia seems a wild claim.

8- Columbia (her husband mind you) have overtly overclaimed sales for Mariah. Daydream sold a maximum of 17M (this is adding boosted numbers from all markets available) not 25, her fisrt album sold 11M, not 17, Music Box 18M not 30. Check on Wikipedia itself. Do the Maths yourself [[5]. Island are more reliable, it seems, in fact they are not declaring impossible sums for Mariah. More later.

9- Album sales claims for Mariah Carey always come from her fansite. madonna's fansites are not that concerned, and match with Record Company declarations (though on most fansites they are not updated) and Amazon (they keep track of major retailers sales).

10- Mariah and Madonna have about the same number of certifications in the US. However Madonna has sold 3 times as many records as Mariah in the rest of the world- nevermind that Mariah's certifications are sometimes boosted (Diamond for 7.5M, while Madonna's fot two diamonds for albums that have passed the 10M).

Merged comment

Hard to place it, but feels just shy of an A. Would be a GA if the article had gone through the process. -- Avi 23:30, 16 October 2006 (UTC)