Talk:Marco Polo (1982 TV series)

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On 5 October 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved from Marco Polo (miniseries) to Marco Polo (1982 miniseries). The result of the discussion was moved.

Untitled

doesnt boone from lost play marco polo ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.138.204.136 (talk • contribs) 13:58, 8 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You're thinking of the new mini-series, this one is from 1982. Different cast.Ferdinandhudson (talk) 21:14, 31 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ambiguity

There does exist another tv mini series called Marco Polo (external link to IMDB). --95.34.4.130 (talk) 20:52, 5 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

plots

I will write summaries on the plots. Part One and Two done. Part Three and Four will be written once i finish them.

The Winter of Steppes (talk) 01:25, 13 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 28 March 2016

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: no consensus to move. — Music1201 ^talk 00:22, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

– The current setup suggests that a miniseries is not a TV series, which is false. The second show is still ongoing, but I believe the practice is to disambiguate by debut year even if a show lasts a few years. Timmyshin (talk) 05:44, 28 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose the first move as proposed per WP:NCTV, specifically the result of this discussion on its talk page. Steel1943 (talk) 23:19, 30 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I'm afraid I don't see where in the discussion or the guideline specified that a miniseries cannot be renamed "FOO TV series" when there is reasonable ambiguity with another series. As User:Nizolan said, before the 2014 series was renewed for a second season, it was a miniseries (filmed and produced in its entirety). I just discovered there is also evidence that Marco Polo (2007 film) was also shown, or at least referred to a 2-episode miniseries: ""Marco Polo" mini-series airs tomorrow night on the Hallmark Channel at 8 and 11 p.m.. Timmyshin (talk) 15:24, 31 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion was about whether the disambiguation "TV miniseries" or "miniseries" should be used. But, in regards to your concern, I could see Marco Polo (1982 TV series) created as a redirect to Marco Polo (miniseries) but not the article moved (not even to Marco Polo (1982 miniseries) since the other subject is not a miniseries.) The subject is a miniseries, and the article's title should be disambiguated as so. Steel1943 (talk) 15:45, 31 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

"Miniseries" is not a precise enough word IMO. If this were the only show titled "Marco Polo" then by all means Marco Polo (miniseries) is fine but I see other shows also mentioned as miniseries: e.g. Other “Marco Polo” mini-series have been produced including an NBC/Italian production that ran in 1982, and a Hallmark production that ran in 2007. Timmyshin (talk) 15:50, 31 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

As much as I may agree with you that "miniseries" is too ambiguous, consensus was formed in the discussion I referenced that "miniseries" is sufficient. If you disagree with that consensus, I recommend starting a new discussion at WT:NCTV to change the guideline. Steel1943 (talk) 15:53, 31 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Also, do the other miniseries subjects have articles? I cannot tell right now, but if they do, Marco Polo (1982 miniseries) may be an appropriate new title. If not, the current title is currently not ambiguous since it would have no other article titles to disambiguate against. Steel1943 (talk) 15:56, 31 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I believe that discussion was on "miniseries" vs. "TV miniseries" (as opposed to "cartoon miniseries"), not "miniseries" vs. "TV series", but in either case, the 2007 Hallmark production has an article Marco Polo (2007 film) as I mentioned. Whether it was released as 1 TV film interrupted in regular intervals by commercials or a few episodes is not clear, but there are pages that refer to it as a mini-series, and it's not inconceivable that it was released episodically in other countries considering how many countries it was shown. Suffice it to say there's some ambiguity. Timmyshin (talk) 16:01, 31 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Also see Talk:Marco Polo (miniseries)#Ambiguity on this page for another miniseries possibly with this name, currently at Blindpassasjer. Timmyshin (talk) 16:06, 31 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Tentative support – I agree with Steel1943 that Timmyshin's reasoning is deficient in regards to a miniseries being a TV series, but in this case I can find quite a few reliable sources on Google labelling the 2014 Marco Polo a "miniseries", so the current labels don't seem to suffice for disambiguation (unless I'm missing something). —Nizolan ^(talk) 14:13, 31 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Actually I notice the 2014 series has been renewed for a second season, but I still tend to think the years are a safer form of disambiguation. —Nizolan ^(talk) 14:15, 31 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

You'll find far more RS describing the 2014 version as a "limited series". Many don't understand the difference, and the trade press and the TV networks don't help by mudding the use of the terms, but the 2014 is more accurately thought of as a "limited series" while the 1982 version is a traditional "miniseries". --IJBall (contribs • talk) 20:01, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Tentative support – Agree with some of the above concerns, but the move should be made. How about:

Marco Polo (miniseries) > Marco Polo (1982 miniseries) &

Marco Polo (TV series) > Marco Polo (2014 miniseries) ? DaltonCastle (talk) 20:49, 31 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Move as follows:
Marco Polo (miniseries) → Marco Polo (1982 miniseries)

Marco Polo (TV series) → Marco Polo (2014 TV series)

It seems to me that the discussion at WP:NCTV metioned above does not address the case where a miniseries and TV series collide with their names, it only says that "miniseries" is an OK disambiguator and "TV miniseries" is not needed. In this case, there is clearly some ambiguity about which one is which, and having the year disambig could only help. I've maintained the existing disambiguators beyond that, thus "1982 miniseries" but "2014 TV series". — Amakuru (talk) 09:38, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

That's unnecessary disambiguation – if the first one stays "miniseries" and the second one stays "TV series", there is no need to add the years: it'd be redundant and unnecessary. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 19:55, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

That said, creating those as redirects would probably be a capital idea... [g] --IJBall (contribs • talk) 20:12, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose moving Marco Polo (miniseries). The other series isn't, well, a miniseries, so the present title is sufficient and any confusion can be handled with a hat note. However, as "TV series" can refer to either, moving the other article to Marco Polo (2014 TV series) is probably wise if the Marco Polo (TV series) redirects to the dab page.--Cúchullain ^t/c 13:03, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Strongly oppose moving Marco Polo (miniseries) – it 100% aired as a true "miniseries" originally, and should not be moved. Further, there is RS describing the 1982 version as a "miniseries": [1] – "...an elaborate 1982 American-Italian TV miniseries...", [2] – "As for "Marco Polo," it won the "sweeps-week" ratings, eight nominations and two Emmys (one was for the best miniseries of 1982)...", [3] – "Thesp played an empress in the 1982 NBC miniseries “Marco Polo” ..." And, if the 1982 version isn't moved, it renders the second RM moot. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 19:48, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 5 October 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. Per consensus, move to (1982 TV series) and (2014 TV series). (closed by non-admin page mover) – robertsky (talk) 17:56, 21 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

– This is clearly incomplete disambiguation, since a miniseries is also by any definition of the term a TV series. I would also not object to moving the 1982 one to Marco Polo (1982 TV series), as "miniseries" is an ill-defined term which means different things to different people (to me, it means a short series of 2-4 episodes, but I know other people use different definitions) and is probably best avoided as a disambiguator. I note that the 1982 series has sometimes been shown as six episodes rather than four, which is stretching the older definition of miniseries a bit. There did, incidentally, seem to be a fair amount of consensus for the second move in the 2016 discussion above, so I'm not really sure why it wasn't moved to Marco Polo (2014 TV series) then. -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:42, 5 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support BUT the first item should be moved to Marco Polo (1982 TV series) as I agree that miniseries is an ill-defined term. Killuminator (talk) 17:15, 5 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose first per WP:NCTV, support second. NCTV clearly states to use "miniseries" as a qualifier, and there are no other miniseries with this title. The 2014 series does require additional disiambiguation, and the year is most appropriate. The situation is akin to Band of Brothers (miniseries) and Band of Brothers (South Korean TV series) (though that would arguably be a WP:PDAB case anyway). Mdewman6 (talk) 00:09, 6 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support and move the first item to Marco Polo (1982 TV series) per Killuminator. Miniseries isn't a clear or recognizable concept, particularly internationally,so the disambiguators should be made clear. — Amakuru (talk) 17:12, 13 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.