Talk:Shahmaran

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This article was nominated for deletion on 9 December 2010 (UTC). The result of the discussion was keep.

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A double standard about reliable rources

@LouisAragon: Dear Louis Aragon! Are artfolio.com and silkroaddance.com reliable sources in your opinion?! In which one of the sources of this article has been cited that Shahmaran is a Persian or Turkish legend?! How much important is that, what is the pronunciation of word Shahmaran in those languages that are not related to this legend?! Why you are such strict about that references, but reckless about other parts and closing your eyes on those parts of the article which make this sense for reader taht Shahmaran is only a Turkish, Persian or even Arabic folklore legend?! About the word /Shah/ you can refer to a Kurdish dictionary (Like the authentic Henbaneborine of Hejar-p461 for the word شا,and p-465 for the word شامار which the latter means dragon in Kurdish, and also you could see every other Kurdish dictionaries), and also you should know the word Shah/Sha has been derived from Old Persian xšāyaθiya which has borrowed from the Median language; this word has changed and became /Shah/ in current Persian and /Sha/ in Kurdish. I want to remove all parts of the article which has'nt any reliable sources.--Paraw (talk) 18:27, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Have you reviewed WP:RS? Jooojay (talk) 22:40, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Your edit was inappropriate as you added non-RS material and implied blunt WP:OR. I have not checked the rest of the article in detail, but you are free to remove other parts that are unsourced and/or are implying original research. Best, - LouisAragon (talk) 17:29, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The newly added source doesn't seem to specify the origin to be Persian, so perhaps it would be worth changing to Western Iranian instead.-- Qahramani44 (talk) 21:42, 19 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Snake or Serpent?

I noticed much of this article in its current state is not containing citations, and use the term "snake" however the description sounds like a serpent (and some sources do use the term serpent). Anyone want to discuss here? Possibly it's a transliteration issue for the word "Maran"? Jooojay (talk) 22:40, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Jooojay: Most of this article is unsourced. It needs to be rewritten entirely using WP:RS. - LouisAragon (talk) 17:32, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Kurdish name

The kurdish name of Shahmaran is Şahmaran and not Şamaran. https://ku.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Şahmaran Avestaboy (talk) 20:27, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Please feel free to make the correction. Jooojay (talk) 01:46, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

kurdish or persian???

I'm a Kurmanji Kurd from Urmia city, Iran. Contrary to what you show, I have heard nothing about the Shah maran among the Persians. But shah Maran's image is present in many Kurmanji Kurdish homes. And they believe it. Rojitan (talk) 19:58, 18 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

It's unclear what you are trying to state as a problem right now seeing that the article is at a bare minimum, and we know Shahmaran is folklore in many cultures. Jooojay (talk) 22:43, 18 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

It's not folklore in many cultures, it's folklore amongst kurds in eastern turkey, armenia, northern iraq and northwestern iran, non of the other ethnicities in these regions have şahmaran in their mythologies or folklore but it's claimed to them because kurds are a minority in these countries and don't have a country of their own Zageos21 (talk) 14:00, 30 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Do you have a reliable source to support your claims? If so, please add it here for discussion. Jooojay (talk) 22:54, 6 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

What sources are you looking for? That Kurds are a minority in those countries? If so, a quick google search can easily answer your questions.

As for it being Kurdish:

https://www.sabaniknam.com/portfolio/shammaran-the-queen-of-snakes-kurdish-legend/

I have never seen a Turk, Persian, Armenian, Iraqi use a Shahmaran as a talisman or tell folk stories about it. Only the Kurds who inhabit the Kurdistan region between Iraq, Syria, Iran, Turkey, and the Eizidi in Armenia use it as it belongs to them. 70.29.12.111 (talk) 07:27, 30 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Kurdish mythology :

[1]https://www.saradistribution.com/shamaranKurdishMytology.htm 70.29.12.111 (talk) 07:29, 30 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Please see WP:RS and WP:SPS. - LouisAragon (talk) 18:14, 3 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Sahmeran

Kurmancî (1993)

Bavê Barzan (Goran Candan)

Xamaran la reina de les serps

Contes i rondalles de Kurdistan

Weşanên SARA

Katalan (2004)

SHAMARAN

Bavê Barzan (Goran Candan)

Weşanên 1984

Svenska (1998)

شاماران

Bavê Barzan (Goran Candan)

Weşanên SARA

Silêmanî "soranî (1995)

Bavê Barzan (Goran Candan)

Weşanên SARA

Are all reliable books, that state it's a Kurdish mythology. There is no books in Persian, Turkish of that sort. Rojin416 (talk) 20:26, 12 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

How are they reliable? See WP:VER and WP:SPS. --HistoryofIran (talk) 20:33, 12 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Please also see:

[2]The ring of Shah Maran, a story from the mountains of Kurdistan Rojin416 (talk) 20:39, 12 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

You should provide a page number and quote to support your argument. To clarify, you need sources that insist on that this is exclusively Kurdish, not that this is a part of the Kurdish folklore, which is not mutually exclusive with other cultures. Aintabli (talk) 22:46, 12 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

There are no books stating that it’s a Turkish nor Persian folklore. However, there are multiple literature and books published clearly stating it deprives from the Kurdish culture. 70.29.12.111 (talk) 00:18, 13 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

If that's really the case, you are free to check whether the current sources here verify the content. Aintabli (talk) 00:57, 13 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This page has been completely vandalized in order to deny Kurdish history and culture

and The Ring of Shah Maran, A Story from the Mountains of Turkey.[better source needed] The 1944 fairy talebook called The Ring of Shah Maran, A Story from the Mountains of Kurdistan by Raphael Emmanuel tells —-

what is this garbage? Why is this written twice and one is a complete lie. Why does Wikipedia users allow misinformation? The book clearly states from Kurdistan. It’s cited. Yet, this page has been hijacked in order to deny Kurds their own mythology and stories to be told.

Shameful.

Iranians and Turks once again censoring Kurds and their history. No surprise. 70.29.12.111 (talk) 05:00, 14 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Also Kurdish and Kurdistan was removed. Indo-Iranian is a language subgroupe, what does that have anything to do with Shahmaran? Absolute clownry. 70.29.12.111 (talk) 05:07, 14 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

In my edit, I not only fixed that wrong cited information, but I also changed the opening as you're right. Indo-Iranian is a language group. It literally has nothing to do with the Kurdish Mythology of Shahmaran. Yet HistoryofIran and HistoryofIran are undoing my work. They're allowing unreliable sources to be edit, well I continually upload properly cited reliable sources, that continue to get undid. Rojin416 (talk) 18:57, 14 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The two of you are clearly from Reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/kurdistan/comments/13h03b2/i_need_help_with_wikipedia/) and clearly don't know how our guidelines work. Since you're from Reddit, tell that goofball "himdadmustafa" that I don't even participate in Quora or any other forum for that matter. --HistoryofIran (talk) 19:12, 14 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, I am adding two academic sources to prove that Shahmaran is pure Kurdish mythology. Wikipedia should not be a part of colonization process. Please add the sources and make it Kurdish instead of playing with words like indo-iranian or Turkic origin. If they have any academic source, please let them know to show.

Please add th^[1] ^[2] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hewasalam (talk • contribs) 18:59, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[1] ttps://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/001880958

[2] ttps://rowman.com/ISBN/9781498591256/Shâmaran-The-Neolithic-Eternal-Mother-Love-and-the-Kurds

[1]

[2]