Talk:Shaw-Stewart baronets

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No hyphens for Scottish family chiefs

"Requirements for Recognition". The Standing Council of Scottish Chiefs. Archived from the original on 2011-08-17. Retrieved 2016-02-18. It was established in the case of Campbell-Gray, Petitioner in 1950 that no person may bear a compound or double-barrelled surname and be recognised as a Chief Bolton consistently uses the name Shaw Stewart, and the book includes a preface on p. v by Lucinda Shaw Stewart, with no hyphens. On this basis, I'll move the page to Shaw Stewart baronets. . dave souza, talk 17:01, 16 September 2013 (UTC) archiveurl added 13:05, 17 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

There is, however, one legal bar to a claimant taking up a Clan Chiefship even if he is entitled to the undifferenced Arms of the name. This occurs where the individual bears two family names hyphenated together (known colloquially as a double-barrelled surname). It was established in the case of Campbell-Gray, Petitioner in 1950 that no person may bear a compound or double-barrelled surname and be recognised as a Chief. This is for the fairly obviously reason that the comound surname is held to be a new name and is not simply the aggregate of the two or more parts.

The solution to this problem, which has been adopted by some chiefly families is to drop the hyphenated aspect of the compound surname and simply add the additional names as forenames. The Duke of Buccleuch, Chief of Clan Scott, now incorporates the name Montagu Douglas Scott without the offending hyphen, and therefore has the recognition of the Lyon Court. The Duke of Roxburghe, on the other hand, although undoubtedly the “Chief” of Clan Innes, cannot be so recognised as long as he retains the name Innes-Ker.[1]

Ludo featured by the BBC – Holland, Jessica (15 March 2017). "The fun, radical ways owners are saving their country homes". BBC. Retrieved 30 May 2019. . . dave souza, talk 21:04, 30 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

"Septs". Clan Sutherland Society. Retrieved 30 May 2019. The Gray family has long been recognised as a clan in its own right but because of a Lyon Court decision in 1950, the present Lord Gray cannot be recognised as chief because his family will not abandon its compound (double barrelled) surname. . . dave souza, talk 21:21, 30 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Dave souza: The BARONETCY is hyphenated and reliable sources consistently hyphenate it, period. The name of the baronetcy is not decided by the Standing Council of Scottish Chiefs. The name is hyphenated on the Roll of the Baronetage.[2] If then you are going to claim the Roll of the Baronetage, Burkes, Debrett's and the majority of news articles are wrong, then you will need consensus to overrule them. Deciding it's not hyphenated based on Scottish chief guidelines violates WP:SYNTH. —Мандичка^YO 😜 21:28, 30 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- The Court of the Lord Lyon (the Lyon Court) is a standing court of law which regulates heraldry in Scotland. The Lyon Court maintains the register of grants of arms, known as the Public Register of All Arms and Bearings in Scotland, as well as records of genealogies. . . dave souza, talk 06:32, 31 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The Roll of the Baronetage website linked above shows "Sir Ludovic Houston Shaw-Stewart, 12th Baronet", but Ludo styles himself as "Sir Ludovic Shaw Stewart" on his letter reproduced at Shaw Stewart, Ludo (24 September 2018). "Meet our Team". Ardgowan House.. The outline at Shaw Stewart, Ludo. "Shaw Stewart Timeline". Ardgowan House. shows under 1797: Following the death of his great uncle Sir John Stewart, 4th Baronet, took the name “Shaw” in tribute thereby creating the name “Shaw Stewart”. Consistent with that, Shaw Stewart, Ludo (9 December 2015). "The History of Ardgowan". Ardgowan House. consistently shows Shaw Stewart without a hyphen, as does Bolton, J. S. (1989), From Royal Stewart to Shaw Stewart, Greenock: Orr Pollock & Co. Ltd., ISBN 978-0951460900 For another source, G Blair (1907) Greenock Street Names: Their History and Romance "Chapter 1 - The Shaw Stewart Family" refers in the third paragraph to "the Shaw-Stewart family", then thereafter omits the hyphen: it states that in Ardgowan House "a silver tablet may be found bearing the following inscription ... The whole built by Sir John Shaw Stewart, Bart., of Greenock and Blackhall." It then goes on "to give a short account of the Shaw Stewart Family". Haven't checked other histories yet, but it's clear that the normal reference in Scotland is to the Shaw Stewart family. Usage of hyphens in the English peerage is apparently different, hence The Daily Telegraph obituary. . . dave souza, talk 13:03, 31 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 22:56, 18 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]