Talk:Taiwan

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Important notice: Prior consensus has decided that Taiwan is to be referred to as a country. Changes to the article to refer to Taiwan as a state, island, province of China, or other definition are not permitted and may be reverted.
See here for the 2020 RfC in which editors reached this decision.

Guidelines for the article Taiwan

The following guidelines have been established by consensus and convention:

Simplified Chinese shall remain in the linguistics infobox per Wikipedia:Manual of Style (use of Chinese language)#Simplified and Traditional
Please do not add Simplified characters and tongyong pinyin to the country infobox.
The topic of this article is the Republic of China although its title has been moved to Taiwan.
Please refrain from adding "(Taiwan)" indiscriminately because this article includes historical information about the Republic of China as well as Taiwan.

This article has previously been nominated to be moved. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination.

Discussions:

Withdrawn, 14 October 2011, from Republic of China to Government of Taiwan, see discussion.
Moved, 17 February 2012, from Republic of China to Taiwan, see discussion.
Not moved, 13 August 2014, from Taiwan to Republic of China, see discussion.
Not moved, 11 December 2016, from Taiwan to Republic of China, see discussion.
Not moved, 2 February 2017, from Taiwan to Republic of China, see discussion.
Not moved, 15 April 2018, from Taiwan to Taiwan (country), see discussion.
Not moved, 11 April 2021, from Taiwan to Republic of China, see discussion.

Discussions on this page often lead to previous arguments being restated, especially about "country" vs "state", and "Taiwan" vs "Republic of China", and "Taiwan is a part of China", and "Taiwan is a province of China". Please read recent comments and look in the archives before commenting on that topic.

Please stay calm and civil while commenting or presenting evidence, and do not make personal attacks. Be patient when approaching solutions to any issues. If consensus is not reached, other solutions exist to draw attention and ensure that more editors mediate or comment on the dispute.

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Taiwan was one of the Geography and places good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
August 9, 2006	Peer review	Reviewed
December 13, 2006	Good article nominee	Not listed
September 4, 2007	Good article nominee	Not listed
November 21, 2007	Good article nominee	Listed
May 9, 2008	Good article reassessment	Delisted
July 26, 2008	Peer review	Reviewed
June 13, 2009	Good article nominee	Listed
July 14, 2009	Peer review	Reviewed
August 16, 2009	Featured article candidate	Not promoted
April 27, 2012	Good article reassessment	Delisted
Facts from this article were featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "On this day..." column on October 10, 2004, and February 28, 2011.
Current status: Delisted good article

This article has been mentioned by multiple media organizations:

Carl Miller (2019-10-05). "China and Taiwan clash over Wikipedia edits". BBC News. Archived from the original on 2019-10-04. Retrieved 2019-10-05.
Keoni Everington (2020-06-15). "Wikipedia finally designates Taiwan as 'country'". Taiwan News. Retrieved 2020-06-16. In a request for comments (RFC) page created to debate the proper status of Taiwan in its Wikipedia entry, editors in May fiercely debated the merits of referring to Taiwan as a "state" or a "country."
Keoni Everington (2022-03-03). "Taiwan changed to 'partially-recognised country' on Wikipedia on China's National Day". Taiwan News. Retrieved 2022-03-03. Taiwan's status as a country in Wikipedia was changed to "partially-recognised country" on Saturday (Oct. 1), China's National Day, before the page was repaired later that day.

Text and/or other creative content from this version of Taiwan was copied or moved into Sports in Taiwan with this edit on 22 October 2019. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists.

This article has been viewed enough times in a single week to appear in the Top 25 Report. The week in which this happened:

July 31 to August 6, 2022

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Taiwan

According to Wikipedia, Taiwan is a Chinese island. I wonder how much the Chinese government paid Wikipedia to put THAT lie up and then lock the editing tool. 2603:8080:D9F0:7610:2872:D4AF:AFFE:85AE (talk) 03:31, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The first sentence says it's a country. If you wish to make changes to the article, request them here instead of directly editing the article. win8x (talking | spying) 03:33, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The only mention of China in the first sentence is in the phrase "Republic of China". Which is the formal name of the country as defined by its own government. --User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 18:56, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think he might be referring to the article on zhwiki. 2601:647:4401:9EB0:F4C4:AFDD:306A:85C9 (talk) 01:55, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(zh:台湾) 2601:647:4401:9EB0:F4C4:AFDD:306A:85C9 (talk) 01:56, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Footnote: sometimes country, sometimes state?

Not all sources listed here call it a country. (eg 2nd and 4th) 103.190.179.16 (talk) 17:16, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In casual English most people will not distinguish between the two terms. 01:44, 25 October 2024 (UTC) CMD (talk) 01:44, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

i think it may be better to delete some of the sources that don;t call it a country. 103.190.179.16 (talk) 13:31, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

About RoC after retreat?

This turned into quibbling about Taiwan being referred to as a country. We're not relitigating that. Remsense ‥ 论 11:00, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Why not explain it like this? Taiwan only refers to RoC after retreat. 103.190.179.16 (talk) 01:56, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There's no reason to, and it is wrong. It is about both the present country of Taiwan, and the contiguous ROC. Republic of China (1912–1949) is a subarticle detailing the mainland period. Remsense ‥ 论 02:03, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Why wrong? Before the retreat no one treated Taiwan as a country. 103.190.179.16 (talk) 14:48, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No they treated the ROC as a country, that country still exists, as it is the official name of the country often called Taiwan. Slatersteven (talk) 14:51, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Taiwan is not simply the common name. If that is the case, we wouldn't create a page called Roc 1912-1949. 103.190.179.16 (talk) 12:47, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Why not? The period in which the ROC was much larger than Taiwan would not be sensibly covered in an article on Taiwan. The ROC is the same state/government, but it has represented two different countries over its history. --User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 11:51, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No, this article is about Taiwan. Post 1949, the history of Taiwan is that of the ROC. Prior to 1949, we cover the ROC (and China in general) only to the extent that it pertains to Taiwan. --User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 13:25, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think we should make this articulation much more clear, perhaps put it in an FAQ at the top of the page. Remsense ‥ 论 19:45, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah. That's the point. But i don't see a statement like this in the article. The article only says Taiwan officially Roc. 103.190.179.16 (talk) 12:49, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Because Taiwan IS the ROC. Currently. Every country article covers the history of the area before the actual country government existed, just like this one does. What problem are you trying to address? --User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 13:47, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The logic I believe is the ROC has continued to exist. There are not two different countries before and after 1949. This topic is still the ROC. Its title was moved to Taiwan to reflect modern usage, and pre-1949 content was split but still summarized here. Vacosea (talk) 20:56, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"There are not two different countries before and after 1949." There most obviously are. A huge country spanning much of a continent and a tiny island country cannot seriously be considered the same country. Same state, yes. Same country, don't make me laugh. --User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 13:01, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 28 October 2024

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Thatdordrechtguy (talk) 11:59, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: per the last RfD on Talk:ROC. Hyphenation Expert (talk) 12:40, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

LATEST GROSS DOMESTIC PRODUCT

According to latest IMF publication 2024 , Taiwan Data are as Follows
$1.840T ~ GDP PPP
$775.02B ~ GDP NOMINAL
$79,030 ~ Per Capita PPP
$33,230 ~ PER CAPITA NOMINAL

Would you update that Aguahrz (talk) 05:10, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Would you mind not WP:SHOUTING? ~~THERE IS NO REASON~~ There is no reason for writing in all-caps. Thank you. soetermans. ^{↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK} 09:57, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

okay, But that's rude🙄 Aguahrz (talk) 10:12, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Put this notice into Note 27

Prior consensus has decided that Taiwan is to be referred to as a country.
See here for the 2020 RfC in which editors reached this decision.

The definition of Taiwan has always been controversial. Some readers may think that Wikipedia wants to participate in the controversy by describing Taiwan as a country. Most readers will not click on the talk page, so informing them in the note at the bottom can let them know that Wikipedia remains neutral. 62.192.175.202 (talk) 12:36, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I do not think this is helpful at all, because this is an encyclopedia article. Wikipedia presents facts, and there is no need to preempt people perceiving those facts as controversial with a separate note. The note is appropriately placed on the talk page. Butterdiplomat (talk) 21:06, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with 62. I don't think there is a "fact" in this political topic. To say it a country is just our decision, not a "fact". 36.230.24.108 (talk) 15:04, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That is certainly one reading of facts. You can say that about any other country. Butterdiplomat (talk) 14:36, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There are quite a few people who would say that Taiwan is not a country, but countries like the United States would not be said like that. 36.230.24.108 (talk) 16:10, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The fact that Taiwan’s status is disputed is referenced extensively both in the intro and rest of the article. That does not change its functioning, history, cultural standing as a country, however. Butterdiplomat (talk) 16:38, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

About RoC after retreat? 2

I think it is a good idea to make this articulation much more clear, but the discussion was closed. 36.230.24.108 (talk) 16:07, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If it was closed it was closed for a reason, and you have added nothing new. Slatersteven (talk) 16:12, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This turned into quibbling about Taiwan being referred to as a country. But the original idea is great i think. 36.230.24.108 (talk) 16:14, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Consider reading WP:BLUD. Butterdiplomat (talk) 16:39, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]