Talk:Themiscyra (Pontus)

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Move?

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: No consensus. Merge discussion is ongoing and may lead to a second move request afterwards. If the consensus is to merge, a technical move could probably be filed instead. (non-admin closure) Red Slash 21:13, 10 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Themiscyra (Pontus) → Themiscyra – primary topic, no need for disambiguation, redirect in the way --Relisted. -- tariqabjotu 02:18, 29 June 2013 (UTC) _dk (talk) 18:30, 15 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
How do we know it's primary? ~~Incidentally, that's a disambiguation page, not a redirect.~~ —BarrelProof (talk) 21:06, 15 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Page Themiscyra is a disambig. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 22:13, 15 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose: I notice that the nominator changed Themiscyra (mythology) into a redirect to Themiscyra (Pontus) about 12 minutes before submitting this move request, and also that, among the entries in the disambiguation page, Themyscira has been viewed 28860 times in the last 90 days, Themiscyra (mythology) has been viewed 3876 times in the last 90 days, while Themiscyra (Pontus) has only been viewed 1261 times in the last 90 days – but the requestor suggests that Themiscyra (Pontus) is primary and wants to entirely suppress Themiscyra (mythology). Until converted to a redirect, Themiscyra (mythology) was about a place in mythology that seemed distinct from the actual place that existed in reality. (Themiscyra Plain has been viewed only 111 times in the last 90 days.) Some prior opposition to the idea of merging the articles about the fictional and actual towns is recorded at Talk:Themiscyra (mythology). Based on what I see, I reverted the conversion of the article into a redirect. I see no justification for the requested move. —BarrelProof (talk) 22:36, 15 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support despite the WP:troutable redirect Themiscyra (mythology) is in effect a duplicate stub, merging it would be reasonable, redirecting wasn't. Most ancient Greek towns have some mythology attached this is usually covered in a paragraph in the article. There aren't two Themiscyras on the river Thermodon, and these two/one Themiscyras are WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. In ictu oculi (talk) 03:39, 16 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Sheesh, the duplicate mythology stub (since when is Herodotus considered mythology?) has really messed the interwikis and wikidata. In ictu oculi (talk) 03:46, 16 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comment nominator has not bothered to indicate whether he wants a large hatnote consisting of the contents of the dab page (thereby deleting it) or if the dab page should be displaced somewhere. So if it is to be displaced, then this is an improperly formulated multimove. If not, then the merge arm of the nomination is missing. -- 65.94.79.6 (talk) 04:07, 16 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

There actually won't be anything left of the dab page once the duplicate Herodotus mention has gone. The DC Comics can be a hatnote (must everything in the ancient world suffer a Comics hatnote, can't it be a see also?), the Themiscyra plain should be in the first line of lead and/or a see also. In ictu oculi (talk) 04:14, 16 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

You can avoid a comics hatnote by having a disambiguation page. -- 65.94.79.6 (talk) 00:33, 30 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I was mistaken about Themyscira being a redirect, I was thinking about Themyscira which I recently moved to Themyscira (DC Comics) which left a redirect in the original Themyscira article, which I wanted the Themiscyra (Pontus) article moved to. I completely overlooked the fact that the two were spelled differently (Themyscira vs Themiscyra) and thought that the Wonder Woman article took the primary topic spot in the first place, which was odd to me. Then, without checking Themyscira at all (again, did not realize they were spelled differently), I had assumed that was the redirect page that resulted from my bold move. Still, there is no actual content from Themiscyra (mythology) that is worth merging to Themiscyra (Pontus), and since they were obviously the same topic, I have opted to redirect one to the other, then move the resulting article into the primary spot (previously taken by Wonder Woman place as I had erroneously assumed.) I agree with In ictu oculi's suggestion of what to do with the dab page. _dk (talk) 08:47, 16 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Merge discussion

It has been suggested that Themiscyra (mythology) be merged into Themiscyra (Pontus) Proposed since June 2013.

Strong support as above Herodotus is not "mythology," nor are his amazons, this is a straightforward case of a duplicate stub. In ictu oculi (talk) 22:52, 29 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Weak oppose Herodotus' Amazons are archaeologically from the northeast coast of the Black Sea, not Turkey, so the archaeological site, the plain it lies on may be different from the one in legend ascribed to the Amazon nation, as no archaeological link has yet been found to make the two locations the same, AFAIK. -- 65.94.79.6 (talk) 00:32, 30 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

65.94.79.6 I'm slightly confused by this because I thought that the Scythian group of amazons was a breakaway group, so there is no second Themiscyra on the north coast of the Black Sea. At least the article as it stands doesn't suggest two Themiscyra. In ictu oculi (talk) 12:11, 30 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Archaeologically, the only Amazons are the Scythian Amazons, since AFAIR, there's been no archaeological evidence of them in Pontus. That makes the mythological location iffy, as it could be about a historical location that was mythologically conveyed under the name "Themiscyra", while being a different real location. That makes the Themiscyra of the Amazons not physically linked to the archaeological remains of Themiscyra. -- 65.94.79.6 (talk) 09:17, 1 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Support per in ictu oculi, even if the two locations have not been linked, the differences between the "mythology" site and Herodotus's site can be described in one single article instead of two stubs. _dk (talk) 03:21, 30 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 14 November 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved (closed by non-admin page mover) DannyS712 (talk) 06:41, 22 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Themiscyra (Pontus) → Themiscyra
Themiscyra → Themiscyra (disambiguation)

– Clear and obvious primary topic as the mythological home of the Amazons. The only thing competing with it for primacy is the fictional city of the Amazons from DC Comics, which is based part and parcel on the mythological one. _{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 21:46, 14 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose this primarytopic grab. The term has enough ambiguity to deserve disambiguation as now. Dicklyon (talk) 02:30, 15 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Leaning support. I tend to think that historical topics, particularly those known from classical literature, should usually be primary over pop culture examples named after them. I appreciate that most people have probably heard of Themiscyra due to Wonder Woman, but that's a situation that comes and goes based on the popularity of a comic book and other iterations of its titular heroine—I'm not saying that I don't appreciate the franchise, just that the historical Themiscyra has, I think, greater long-term significance, so that a hatnote and a disambiguation page with "(disambiguation)" in the title is sufficient. After all, Titanic redirects to the ship, not the movie, and the Oregon Trail is primary for that name, even if countless people know it chiefly because of the game. Remember, making one topic primary isn't the same as demoting all of the other topics related to the title; right now there is no primary topic, but a historic location that all of the other entries are named after has the best claim, IMO. P Aculeius (talk) 12:54, 15 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose this move 2601:541:4500:1760:E4D9:D7D6:2A5:4E06 (talk) 21:40, 18 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. The DAB page works perfectly well. Selecting one entry as WP:PTOPIC is a guaranteed way of accumulating bad links which are unlikely to get found and fixed and which degrade the encyclopedia.

The proposal badly fails the first limb of the PTOPIC test: "A topic is primary for a term with respect to usage if it is highly likely—much more likely than any other single topic, and more likely than all the other topics combined—to be the topic sought when a reader searches for that term." Pageviews in the last 30 days: Themiscyra (Pontus) 2,344, Themyscira (DC Comics) 9,604. (Themyscira (DC Comics) fails the second limb of the PTOPIC test, greater enduring notability and educational value, so it cannot be PTOPIC either.) Narky Blert (talk) 14:25, 21 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.