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Template:Did you know nominations/Herwig Gössl

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by AirshipJungleman29 talk 17:58, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

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Herwig Gössl

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Created by Modussiccandi (talk). Self-nominated at 10:03, 1 February 2024 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Herwig Gössl; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.

  • Modussiccandi, I don't see this meeting the criterion on having an interesting hook. I think people are generally shocked to be appointed or promoted to positions. Is there anything else you could touch on with an alternative hook? I also have some concerns about the limited sources (only 3), the intro having all of his titles (Pope Francis doesn't even include his multitude of titles, etc. but I think those can be resolved. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 19:38, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
    • Thank you for the review and thank you for pointing out the titles in the intro. I didn't realise someone had put them there. You are totally right, no point in including them. About the sources: I don't see a clash with the DYK guidelines here since they are reliable and independent. It is, of course, desirable to include as many and varied sources as possible in an article, but I don't see this as relevant to DYK. I also disagree with you regarding the hook: I would've expected him to have felt great excitement or joy (etc.), and I believe the author of the source felt the same, as they included the fact as a hook of sorts to their own piece. Since this seems to be a matter of taste, a third opinion might be an idea to resolve this. Modussiccandi (talk) 20:44, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
      • You are welcome to request a third opinion, but I will state clearly that someone expressing a simple and common emotion is in no way interesting to a general audience. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 16:07, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
Came to review but I see the issue here. @Modussiccandi and Gonzo fan2007: if the article had little of substance on the person, I might agree that a hook such as Modus suggests might be adequate. But in this particular case, there's an elephant in the room, a massive Synodal Way-shaped elephant. Clearly, that is food for a far more interesting hook, and, while we must be mindful of BLP parameters, the section is sufficiently well-sourced that we must be able to use it. However, I note that the article somewhat hedges... it does not clarify his personal stance. What, for example, does Gössl rejected a fundamental document prepared by the commission due to disagreements with the wording including on the "tendency to abolish the bipolarity of genders"... However, after the conclusion of the Synodal Way, he joined the majority opinion calling for a reappraisal of homosexuality in catholic teaching mean, succinctly? It sounds as though, if we could be slightly robust, and clear, about his own views, there would be a good hook in there, and one in which would be universal interest, I think. ——Serial Number 54129 18:39, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
Thank you, Serial Number 54129. That is a good idea. I will have another look at the source and see if something clearer on his own views can be extracted. I don't have much time at the moment, but I'll make sure to propose an alternative hook in the not-too-distant future. Modussiccandi (talk) 19:30, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
Serial Number 54129, I agree with your takeaway regarding other options, however I still disagree that ALT0 has any chance at being interesting. I work in mostly American football, this would be like saying that a college player felt great shock at being drafted, or a player feeling great shock at signing a contract, etc. This is a common emotion to feel when achieving something professionally and not at all interesting to even a very specific audience, let alone a general one. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 15:08, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
My apologies for the delay, Serial Number 54129. I have tried to find more precise language on his rejection of the document, but there seems to be just this one quote from him. But I have added clearer material on his progressive turn on homosexuality and I think a potential hook could look like this:
I don't view this as set in stone, so do let me know your thoughts. Best, Modussiccandi (talk) 21:10, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
@Modussiccandi: Yes, that's interesting to everyone on both sides of the argument. I always like to leave latitude for the dyk submitter, so tweak as you see fit. Paging @Gonzo fan2007: for thoughts. ——Serial Number 54129 12:05, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
Modussiccandi Definitely more interesting. If you can drop the relevant source here, I will re-review the nom. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 17:35, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
Great! The relevant sources are [1] and [2]. Best, Modussiccandi (talk) 10:04, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
@Modussiccandi and Serial Number 54129: I don't speak German, so can I get some clarification on what begrüßt means. The translation I have is welcomed. When I see {{endorsed}} in the hook, I don't see two synonyms (endorsing means to declare one's approval of something, where the rest of the article seems to make it like he accepts the decision but isn't thrilled about it). I would probably be more comfortable with accepted instead, or even just the word from the source: welcomed. Please correct any translation issues I may be having. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 15:16, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
I think 'welcomed' works well as a translation in this context. I will change ALT1 accordingly. Thank you and best, Modussiccandi (talk) 16:45, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
for ALT1. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 14:04, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
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