User talk:Finnusertop/Archive/2021

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Hope for 2021

take courage

Thank you for improving article quality in December, and good wishes for a time of transition. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:35, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

Have a good new year 2021! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:26, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

Happy new year, Gerda Arendt! Always the perfect time to archive my talk page. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 15:56, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

Quite an honour ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:46, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

I tried to give 2021 a good start by updating the QAI project topics. Please check and correct, - did you know that - at almost five years - you belong to the project's "oldest" active members? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:33, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

Book

I actually bought that book yesterday (Korean Communism, 1945–1980: A Reference Guide to the Political System). Expensive like hell but yeah. I'll receive it in 10-15 business days :) --Ruling party (talk) 09:05, 14 January 2021 (UTC)

@Ruling party: that's great! I'm sure you'll enjoy the book. It contains lots of personel lists of state and party institutions and, my favorite part, critical summaries of all of Kim Il-sung's works. If you need any help with the lists, let me know. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 14:12, 14 January 2021 (UTC)

Thanks! :) The more help the merrier! :)

I didn't know that part about Kim Il-sung's works—cool, it sounds like a good read! --Ruling party (talk) 15:09, 14 January 2021 (UTC)

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Speedy deletion nomination of North Yemen (disambiguation)

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Korean communism 1945-1980

I love the book! It has everything but one thing; the provincial leadership of the WPK from inception to 1980.

Do you know of many books that cover this? It would give the WPK Central Committee the extra spice that it's missing. I will be starting on the 3rd Central Committee tonight and I will tableise all of them.

I also feel that we should try to fix the article on Kim Il (politician). The only politician to serve in all the central committees with Kim Il-sung, and never lost his post in the Political Committee after he was elected. Sadly for him his name makes it harder for us to find information on him, but he surely has to be the most underrated politician of the Kim Il-sung period? --Ruling party (talk) 21:06, 3 February 2021 (UTC)

@Ruling party: On the top of my head, I can say that the Ministry of Unification publishes online an "Organizational Chart of North Korean Leadership" in translation (and 북한 권력기구도 in Korean). I don't know far back it goes, but it includes both WPK Municipal Party Committee heads as well as the local government Municipal & Provincial People's Committee heads. There might be sources out there (especially in Korean) that include complete, historical listings.

Other than that, the ministry's North Korea Information Portal is probably the best source for politicians' positions past and present. Try to google:

• "당위원회 위원장" site:nkinfo.unikorea.go.kr and look for results with "도 당위원회 위원장" (i.e. Province Party Committee Chairman)

• "인민위원회 위원장" site:nkinfo.unikorea.go.kr and look for "도 인민위원회 위원장" (i.e. Province People's Committee Chairman).

For cities, substitute 시 for 도. For vice-chairmen, substitute 부위원장 for 위원장.

And, yes, the article on Kim Il could use a little love. I'll see if I can do something about it. Cheers! – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 21:41, 3 February 2021 (UTC)

Thanks! I'll check them out! :) --Ruling party (talk) 00:06, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

Since you know a bit of Korean and me nothing... can you make this thing out: https://ko.wikipedia.org/wiki/%ED%8B%80:%EC%A1%B0%EC%84%A0%EA%B3%B5%EC%82%B0%EB%8B%B9_%EA%B0%84%EB%B6%80

Google Translate doesn't translate Korean that well. I read shipbuilding and other strange terms... mhm. Does it say it is a list—the one for 1945—of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of Korea elected in 1945? If so could you translate som of the names for me? :P If we get this one, and I find the composition of the Executive Committee of the North Korean Branch Bureau and that of the Central COmmittee of the Communist Party of North Korea we have the composition of the entire Korean communist movement from 1945 til today. I'm planning to turn all the WPK CCs into FLs so cool if I managed to get the forerunners to the same levels as well. --Ruling party (talk) 10:05, 10 February 2021 (UTC)

@Ruling party: this appears to be the leadership (chiefs, executives, cadres dependeing on translation) of the original Communist Party of Korea. I'm ashamed to admit I don't know what the 1st, 2nd etc Communist Party refers to. Google Translate works fine for me this time. It doesn't always; the "shipbuilding" you mention is what it sometimes gives for choson (joseon) so the North Koreean term for (North) Korea.

There is a great tool you can use to translate the personal names here. Simply insert the Korean, look for the McCune–Reischauer romanization, forget about the diacritics and hypenate the given name to get the form we use on Wikipedia.

The original Communist Party, by the way, is very interesting. They got kicekd out of the Comintern because they were a factional mess impossible to control. The factions didn't disappear, of course, and the Southerners were a faction in their own right. That was a major source of Kim Il-sung's woes after he got in power. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 12:43, 10 February 2021 (UTC)

No reason to be ashamed. There were four attempts to establish the Communist Party of Korea, and the all failed, until the fifth one in 1945. The article Communist Party of Korea is in shambles. It doesn't really make this clear. There was never one unified Communist Party of Korea until 1945 or for that matter, one unified CPK from 1925 to 1928 even.

Ya, the Korean Communist movement was a disaster. That culture also brought disaster to North Korea. More interested in petty squabbles than ruling.

Thanks. I will use that instantly. I need to add the Korean names to the CC tables.

In addition. If you ever see the book Materials on Korean Communism, 1945–1947 on sale or anything else please say so. It's the only good book I've found—and its out of print urrghhh—that discusses the main organs and organisations of the Korean Communist movement in that period. --Ruling party (talk) 14:15, 10 February 2021 (UTC)

I haven't seen Materials on Korean Communism, 1945–1947, but I was about to recommend Dae-Sook Suh's The Korean Communist Movement 1918–1948 and Documents of Korean Communism, 1918–1948. I've never seen those books either, but since we share admiration for Suh's Korean Communism 1945–1989: A Reference Guide, they might be great as well. Then there is of course Scalapino and Lee's two-volue classic Communism in Korea. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 01:14, 11 February 2021 (UTC)

@Ruling party: Oh, and a note on sourcing. Be careful with formatting citations. If you're citing Suh, don't type "Duh", because the link to the citation won't work. There is a script you can use to identify broken citation links here: User:Trappist the monk/HarvErrors. As for web sources, I know they can be a pain to format, but you really shouldn't use just a plain URL. This is what I use: User:V111P/js/WebRef. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 01:42, 11 February 2021 (UTC)

I managed to buy—the book The Korean Communist Movement 1918–1948 on Ebay. I will receive it in the beginning of March.

As you probably know the two volumes of Communism in Korea are available for free at the Internet Archives.

Ah that was a terrible mistake by :/ I'll fix!

Never heard of it. I will try it. Thanks for recommending me it.

--Ruling party (talk) 08:35, 11 February 2021 (UTC)

Your draft article, Draft:Kim Jong-il Prize

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Your GA nomination of On Eliminating Dogmatism and Formalism and Establishing Juche in Ideological Work

Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article On Eliminating Dogmatism and Formalism and Establishing Juche in Ideological Work you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Ruling party -- Ruling party (talk) 14:42, 20 February 2021 (UTC)

Thank you ...

... for improving articles in February! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:52, 20 February 2021 (UTC)

Requesting a comment for Varma

Hello Finnusertop! I wonder if you'd like to take a look at Varma's talk page to verify that the Finnish references I've used on Varma's article are not internal sources? Thank you! Jjanhone (talk) 16:49, 8 March 2021 (UTC)

Hi, Jjanhone. I've dropped a note. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 17:10, 8 March 2021 (UTC)

Thank you so much! :) Jjanhone (talk) 06:11, 9 March 2021 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of On Eliminating Dogmatism and Formalism and Establishing Juche in Ideological Work

The article On Eliminating Dogmatism and Formalism and Establishing Juche in Ideological Work you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:On Eliminating Dogmatism and Formalism and Establishing Juche in Ideological Work for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already appeared on the main page as a "Did you know" item, or as a bold link under "In the News" or in the "On This Day" prose section, you can nominate it within the next seven days to appear in DYK. Bolded names with dates listed at the bottom of the "On This Day" column do not affect DYK eligibility. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Ruling party -- Ruling party (talk) 14:42, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Thank you, Ruling party! I must say this was one of the most thorough GA reviews I have ever been honored with. I think collaboration like this between subject matter experts helps Wikipedia produce superb content. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 15:32, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Thank you very much! :)

I agree. I'm looking forward to when I can begin writing articles again—when I've finished the remaining articles on the SPA terms

Anyhow, a heads up, I'm planning to rewrite the Kim Il-sung article. I've written an outline here: User:Ruling party/Kim Il-sung. If you have commends or just want to collaborate on it give me a message. I need all the help I can get. --Ruling party (talk) 17:07, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

@Ruling party: I agree that the article on Kim Il-sung could be a lot better than it is now. That being said, it's not in a terrible shape either. I don't think it has any glaring omissions, mistakes or weird emphases. But it could be a lot longer, with proper sub articles. I'm not sure if I agree with the structure of your draft. I know you are into looking at things from an institutional historical point of view like that, and that's great; you've done a great job with many WPK articles. But even for someone like me who is familiar with the context, the per term subsections of Leadership seem a bit heavy. The subsections of those sections, however, are very good. But this is just a detail that can be addressed at the end of the process, so don't take it as a major complaint. I once did a comparable exercise and looked at sub articles that exist for various politicians but not for Kim Il-sung. You can see an incomplete list here: User:Finnusertop/sandbox/redlist#Kim Il-sung – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 19:55, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

I concur that the term sections will probably not work, and my attempt will probably fail :)

A fine list. I'm taking care of "List of members of the Supreme Assembly"—I was philosophising about creating separate articles for the given terms (for instance, the 1st SPA) and the deputies (for example deputies of the 1st spa), but came to the conclusion that would be dumb. There is no scholarly attention on each specific SPA term and, I mean, what would we fill the SPA terms with? I do, however, believe there is one alternative. We can separate the term articles from the deputies if we are able to find a list of all laws and decrees passed by a given SPA. But than we need more articles like this, but that go as far back as 1948 (which I doubt we'll ever get our hands-on).

I'm thinking of writing articles on the Domestic faction, Soviet Korean faction, Yan'an and Guerilla/Partisan/Kapsan faction (or whatever you will call it), and, of course, we need an article on the purge of domestic communists after the war. I just got my hands on The Korean Communist Movement 1918–1948 which I think will help a great deal.

On another note, the domestic communists really played their cards bad. The Korean Communist Party sent delegations to negotiate with American authorities but sent none to the Soviet authorities in the North. They literally let Kim Il-sung go straight inn without a fight. It is important to understand that the WPK was established as a united party and became divided when merging with the Yan'an and the indigenous communist movement.--Ruling party (talk) 08:07, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

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Discussion at WP:MCQ § Does this photo fall under PD-Art?

 You are invited to join the discussion at WP:MCQ § Does this photo fall under PD-Art?. -- Marchjuly (talk) 23:08, 19 March 2021 (UTC)

I have replied there. Thank you for the notification. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 09:07, 20 March 2021 (UTC)

Thank you ...

... for improving articles in March! On Bach's birthday --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:14, 21 March 2021 (UTC)

It's a pain to upload album covers to Wikipedia

I don't remember exactly how I got the the image (Cranberries Bury the Hatchet 2LP cover.jpg) up on this website, but it didn't ask me a single question that I was aware of about, "why are you uploading this? What article will it be for?". Now I'm trying to find out how to apply this before it gets deleted on April 1st so I can put it back up on the page about the Cranberries' Bury the Hatchet album. However, while I've found the pages about the File Upload Wizard, the Non-free use rationale album cover template, and the Use rationale examples, none of them are helping worth anything about how exactly to apply any of these to the image I'd already uploaded. Just trying to get the image into the info box on the album's page sucked, and now this. EDIT: Somehow managed to stumble onto how to edit the info on the image page. Hopefully that will sort this out once and for all. But it still doesn't change the fact that this process could be made more instinctive. Eyevocal (talk) 22:28, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

Yes, Eyevocal. As you've found out, it's possible to skip the File Upload Wizard but it means you'll have to fill in the details afterwards. I agree, editors should be more or less forced to use the Wizard instead of being left to their own devices. Even though I've uploaded dozens, if not a couple of hundred, files I always use the Wizard. File:Cranberries Bury the Hatchet 2LP cover.jpg is no longer under deletion. I removed the deletion notice because the problems were fixed. The file now meets all the basic requirements. However, some editors object to having multiple covers of the same album when they are visually very similar. How similar is too similar is of course debatable. But right now the file is not facing deletion. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 23:28, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Urimizokkiri logo.png

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Your revision to Dilazak page

May I ask, Why did you remove my edit? 111.119.177.24 (talk) 08:15, 13 April 2021 (UTC)

Hello, IP and Dilazak1. You probably want to reach out to Yamaguchi先生 (talk · contribs) who reverted three consecutive edits last night. I had only made a minor language template edit one month ago. Yamaguchi先生 restored the version that includes my edit but not the ones by Dilazak1. If I can guess, the problem is that the added content was mostly unsourced. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 13:44, 13 April 2021 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Pyongyang Sunan International Airport logo.png

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Thank you ...

wild garlic

... for improving articles in April! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:38, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

No, Gerda. Thank you :) – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 20:41, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

Why "No"? Both can be right. - I have no idea what the tagging of Messa (Puccini) means. Categorized, not an orphan, and Project Classical music. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:19, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

Okay, let's call it both! Re tagging: I used {{WP1.0}} with |orpahn=yes= because the article was not tagged with any WikiProject that does assessments. The template documentation is a bit spotty and old, but "orphan" here refers to tagged WikiProjects, not linked articles. WP1.0 of course used to do a lot of things but is now mainly synonymous with assessments. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 23:20, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for explaining. I'll add project that does assessments. I always do for articles I begin, so never encountered the problem. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:18, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

Your project tagging makes more sense. I'll probably use at least a country WikiProject in the future. I just rarely see classical articles tagged with one, so I thought it might be intentional. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 15:00, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Korea Computer Center logo.gif

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Nomination for deletion of Template:Authority control files

Template:Authority control files has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the entry on the Templates for discussion page. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 00:51, 24 April 2021 (UTC)

Time for some translations?

Hi! It's been awhile (we collaborated on Leevi Madetoja). I know you sometimes are available to translate WP FIN articles into WP ENG. I was wondering if you'd have any interest in Axel Carpelan (Sibelius's patron and confidant) and/or Christian Sibelius (the composer's brother). Thanks for considering! Silence of Järvenpää (talk) 18:18, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

Well, and another thought: In that I will be pursuing a complete re-write for Kullervo, in hopes of obtaining FA by the 130th anniversary of its 28 April 1892 premiere, it would be useful to also have a translation done on the man who originated the titular role: Abraham Ojanperä, then Finland's leading baritone. Thanks! Silence of Järvenpää (talk) 18:22, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

@Silence of Järvenpää: I remember our past collaborations very fondly indeed! I'd be happy to translate some or all of these three articles. I have some other duties right now, so it might not happen swiftly, however. Which of these do you want translated first? Do you have a specific time in mind when the translation(s) would be useful? As with the previous collaboration, I don't mind a trip to the library if you need me to check some (Finnish) sources. I also note that the Finnish Wikipedia articles are not terribly well referenced either, but that will be a problem for the future. PS. During our last collaboration, I took the opportunity to listen to Madetoja's work quite much (my favorite: "Tuoll’ ylhääll’ asunnoissa", op 30b no 3; Okon Fuoko was interesting as well to say the least!). I wouldn't have done so if you hadn't sparked my interest in him, and for that I am indebted to you. I'm looking forward to knowing Sibelius better (last heard: Musique Religieuse, op 113). Kullervo is of interest to me because I much enjoy Sallinen's opera on the same topic. Generally speaking, I prefer Philip Glass and the like and know embarrassingly little about Finnish composers! – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 00:43, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

It's great to hear from you, Finnusertop; I must start by thanking you for what is, without a doubt, the kindest message I have ever received on this platform. How wonderful that, through our work together, you discovered Madetoja's unjustly neglected catalogue. His symphonies are, to my ear, worthy successors of Sibelius's canon, which indeed is why I embarked on Project Madetoja in the first place. We're quite the odd couple: a Finn who likes American composers (while neglecting Finnish composers) and an American who likes Finnish composers (while neglecting American composers). Sallinen is, after Sibelius, my favorite composer: Shadows, Symphony Nos. 3, 5, 8 (actually, I like all eight except for No. 2, which is more of a percussion concerto, anyway), and a number of works derived from his operas... are very dear to my heart. So far, of those I've heard, my favorite opera of his has been The King Goes Forth to France, although I just found an affordable copy of The Red Line and am looking forward to receiving it in the mail; I've also heard Kullervo and The Palace... can't seem to find The Horseman or King Lear anywhere.

I would really appreciate any help you can provide with anything related to Sibelius on English Wikipedia. The pandemic has brought me back to his works and, thoroughly enjoying them once more (did I ever stop doing so?), I'm trying to, step-by-step, right the injustice that is his neglect on WP (relative to other composers). Kullervo has, over time and much to my surprise given my initial tepid response to it, become my favorite Sibelius work... it's a masterpiece. I do think the translation of Abraham Ojanperä, thus, is significantly more important than the other two (which really would be guilty pleasures and of interest only to other Sibelians). One other thought that I could very much use your help on, given your access to Finnish media and library archives: in the late 1950s or very early 1960s, Jussi Jalas resurrected Kullervo (Sibelius forbade its performance until after his passing), a lost work that no one had heard in its entirety since its 1892 premiere. Needless to say, it's a monumentally important concert (one any FA on Kullervo should detail), but the English-language media in the U.S. and Britain doesn't appear to have covered it. Because the Jalas concert was, it is my understanding, in Helsinki, the Finnish press should have recorded its thoughts for posterity. All this is to say: how would you like a treasure hunt? Silence of Järvenpää (talk) 22:09, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

Feminism parentheticals and dabs

Hello there! If I put together a move request for Fem. IR and others, would you be willing to work on the dab page? I'm inclined to follow AjaxSmack's lead from 2012 and suggest a bundle of moves related to article that needn't be "Subject (international relations)". Let me know if you would like a ping. Firefangledfeathers (talk) 02:03, 19 May 2021 (UTC)t

@Firefangledfeathers: I think those moves should be considered separately, whether in one collective nomination or not. The situation with some of them is rather complex. I'll do the dab page. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 02:06, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

I was just coming to a similar conclusion, mainly because I don't yet know enough about the other articles. I'm just going to propose the Feminism move. Firefangledfeathers (talk) 02:09, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

Yeah, I'm not a huge fan of applying WP:CONSISTENT overly zealously. Some titles are better with WP:NATDIS and other with parenthetical. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 02:13, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

How would you feel about Feminist international relations? It's consistent with the feminist side of things and is used in the article and reliable sources. Firefangledfeathers (talk) 02:40, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

@Firefangledfeathers: it's not bad but I'd prefer Feminism in international relations. Yes, it's used in sources but not consistently and Feminism in international relations sort of accounts for all formulations. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 02:47, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

Thank you! RM is posted. Firefangledfeathers (talk) 02:51, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

May thanks

Thank you for improving articles in May! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:31, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

See my talk today, - it's rare that a person is pictured when a dream comes true, and that the picture is shown on the Main page on a meaningful day. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:19, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

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Happy 8th Wikibirthday!

Hello! I just happened to stumble upon your userpage and saw that it was your 8th anniversary of editing Wikipedia. Thank you for contributing! Shotgunscoop (talk) 12:23, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

Happy First Edit Day!

Wikipedia:Featured article review/Punk rock/archive2

You have been involved in the "punk rock" article, so I'm inviting you to Wikipedia:Featured article review/Punk rock/archive2. --George Ho (talk) 23:31, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

Wikipedia articles that are not just translations...

Hello!

i've wrote yesterday on HelpDesk and you relplied, the subject was "Wikipedia articles that are not just translations..." i didn't have yesterday a wiki user yet, and i don't know how to reply there on HelpDesk. Just to remind you what was the issue about, i'll copy-paste from there: " Hello!

There is problem with this page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Re-latinization_of_Romanian It should be a translation of this page: https://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curentul_latinist And it is not. The English version talks about the re-latinisation of the Romanian language which is not 100% true. While the romanian version of the page talks about the "the Latinist current", they are 2 different things... How can this be corrected? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.125.92.26 (talk) 19:25, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

There is no reason why it should be a translation. It looks like the original author of the English article looked at the subject with a slightly different angle than the author of the Romanian article. That does not make the article wrong. The Banner talk 20:45, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

Articles linked in the languages sidebar (and behind the scenes on Wikidata) don't need to be translations, but they do need to be on the same topic. Separating them would be an easy task, but I don't know which of the two topics the Russian article ru:Латинизация румынского языка is on. Do you? – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 21:24, 7 June 2021 (UTC)"

Now... i used google translate to see what the russian page is about and it is almost a 1 on 1 translation of the english page... Both the english and the russian titles are biased, the unbiased title should be "The modernisation of Romanian language"... while the Romanian linked page with them is something like a detail about "The Modernization of Romanian language", it is about a "current" among the romanian linguists and philologists in the 19th century, but it was not the main "current" and as i said, it is a detail in the broader subject aproached by the english & russian pages...

I don't know what it is to be done, but this kind of biased articles may lead to missinformation...

Thanks a lot! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nicu.Obsescu (talk • contribs) 15:01, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

Hi, Nicu.Obsescu, and thanks for looking into this issue. I've split the Wikidata items so that the Romanian article no longer appears in the languages sidebar as the same topic as the English and Russian one. If you think that Modernisation of the Romanian language would be a better title than Re-latinization of Romanian, you should start a move discussion on that articles talk page, here: Talk:Re-latinization of Romanian. The correct way to do it is to add this template on the talk page: {{subst:Requested move |Modernisation of the Romanian language|reason=Write your reason for the move here}}

If you find that template difficult to use, simply start a discussion in any format and I can add it afterwards. The Russian Wikipedia probably has a similar process, but I'm not familiar with that, so let's see how it goes here in English first. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 15:21, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

Thanks a lot for the quick reply! Is it ok like this to reply to what you wrote? i clicked on edit... I'll test the template you recomended, i don't know yet if i'll manage or not... I took a look at the talk page of thet article in english and the discussion is quite long, there seem to be a lot of issues with the citations that i didn't noticed before... Thanks a lot again!

This is what you've been training for!

Hi, Finnusertop! I hope this message finds you well. Over in my sandbox I have been working on an expanded version of Discography of Sibelius symphony cycles, and quite soon the piece will be ready to move into the actual encyclopedia. One thing I have insisted upon (I suppose it's the trained academic in me) is that all symphony runtimes, recording dates, and recording venues should be sourced to the actual CD liner notes of the corresponding cycle; third party websites simply won't due.

There remain a few cycles for which I have not been able to obtain the official notes. One of these, from 2015, is the first-ever Korean conductor-ensemble pairing to undertake the project:

Conductor	Orchestra	Years	Symphony runtime							Recording venue	Label	Ref.
			1	2	3	4	5	6	7
Kim Dae-jin	Suwon Philharmonic Orchestra	????–2015	?	?	?	?	?	?	?	Suwon SK Atrium	Sony Classical	(S80210C)

Quite clearly, the Kim–Suwon cycle has not made its way over to the west (and, at $50+ on Amazon, I have no interest in purchasing it)... all web-content about the project is in Korean. Then, I remembered that you are a member of Wikiproject North Korea and, as such, might have South Korean collaborators or friends. If so, then perhaps you or they could obtain a scan of the liner notes floating around the Korean peninsula?

Second, I seem to remember that you dabble also in obtaining images for upload in Wikicommons (apologies if I am misremembering); for this article, which will eventually be FLC, I'm in need on: 1) an image review; and, 2) improved images: [a] a better image of Paavo Berglund (pref. from the 1970s); [b] a better image of Lorin Maazel (pref. from the 1960s); [c] a better image of Akeo Watanabe (pref. from the 1960s or 1980s); [d] an image of Anthony Collins (pref. from the 1950s); [e] a better image of Thomas Beecham (pref. from the 1930s or 1940s); and [f] a better image of Jukka-Pekka Saraste (pref. from the 1980s or 1990s). Those are the top needs, in order of importance. I also wouldn't say no to better images of Leif Segerstam and Osmo Vänskä, as well as the first uploaded images of Santtu-Matias Rouvali or Hannu Lintu.

I'd appreciate any help you feel inclined to provide! Thanks! Silence of Järvenpää (talk) 18:15, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

Hi, Silence of Järvenpää. I know I've been slacking on the previous tasks you gave me. I'll have more time soon and I'll start with the translations. Now, with regards to your new requests:

The Kim Dae-jin CD. I have access to Naxos Music Library, which has plenty of Sony Classical recordings of Sibelius. Unfortunately, it did not have this one. Rather than making someone pay $50 to access the liner notes, I think I might have a solution. Turns out this CD set is in the University of the Arts Helsinki holdings at Helsinki Music Centre (is this the correct version?). As I understand it, it is accessible to the general public and I just happen to be visiting Helsinki soon. If all goes well, I might be able to take notes from the liners during my trip.

Commons. Yes, I participate on Commons a lot and am often able to find public domain or freely-licensed images we are missing. Finnish personages would be the easiest because the public domain cutoff date for photographs is 1966 – which is rather favourable. Foreign photos need a little more digging, but are not an impossibility. I'll look into it.

Hoping to get the ball rolling soon! – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 18:50, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

See, this is why I adore you as a collaborator! Many, many thanks. (Man, I dream of one day visiting Helsinki and making pilgrimage to Ainola!) If I may, I'd like to prioritize the discography article requests over the Kullervo article requests. Silence of Järvenpää (talk) 18:56, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

Just letting you (also including @Aza24, Gerda Arendt, and Ipigott:) know that I've moved the content over to Draft:Discography of Sibelius symphony cycles, so that others can more easily be involved. Do feel free to join in if you're so inclined. Have a lovely weekend! Silence of Järvenpää (talk) 15:03, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for the invitation, Silence of Järvenpää. I'll probably limit myself to copyediting, if needed. And images, If I'll manage to fulfill your requests. There is this image of Berglund but it might not be so great. I might check that book – Karttunen, Antero. Radion sinfoniaorkesteri 1927–2002 – out sometime to see if it has more photos. I also searched for photos of Rouvali and Lintu. It is kind of disheartening that no one has snapped freely-licensed photos of these high-profile individuals. Well, there were a couple on Mynewsdesk.com, but that site is problematic according to Commons and images from there are more often deleted than kept. If nothing else transpires, I'll probably ask one of Commons' license reviewers before considering uploading. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 15:14, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

Hi, Finnuspertop! Look at this glorious, high-def photo of Akeo Watanabe (link))!! We absolutely must have it... first Sibelius cycle on stereophonic sound and first Sibelius cycle by a conductor of Asian heritage. Silence of Järvenpää (talk) 23:18, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

Hello, Silence of Järvenpää. Unfortunately, I don't think that photo was taken in Finland, which is what matters when it comes to the relevant copyright term of expiry date. I'll definitely keep serching for the photos though. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 07:48, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

Okay! Fine! :) (haha) I've thus moved away from the idea of a conductors gallery, because too many of the conductors either don't have images or have images that are of poor aesthetic quality. You'll see that I'm now just using the multiple-image template. NEEDS:

• I still think we could use a better image of Berglund... one that shows his face and is less grainy.
• I'd also like to feature either Vänskä and Segerstam OR Vänskä and Saraste. Saraste might be tough, since his cycles were in the 1980s and 1990s, so finding a free use image from that time I bet will be impossible. However, both Vänskä and Segerstam have been active RECENTLY with cycles, and so images from the 2000s and 2010s will work well. Surely someone in Finland (or Minnesota) has snapped a good photo of them!
• The third and final thing is... I don't know how to crop an image. As you'll see Draft: Discography of Sibelius symphony cycles#Notable incomplete Sibelius cycles: 1952–present, the image of Karajan needs a snipping so that it's not so distant and thus better fits with the image of Bernstein. I'd imagine for a WikiCommons vet like you, this should be relatively straightforward.

Thanks again so much, Finnusertop for any help you can provide! Silence of Järvenpää (talk) 20:26, 20 June 2021 (UTC)

President of North Korea

A problem that I consistently encounter on Wikipedia is the demand that knowledgeable editors must "obtain consensus" with no one in particular. That appears to be the situation at the "Eternal leaders of North Korea article", where your awareness of the available scholarship on the Kim Il-sung presidency has been met with indifference. I lost patience and created a disambiguation page at President of North Korea, and I encourage you to develop an article at President of North Korea (1972–1994). 73.71.251.64 (talk) 16:22, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

Hi there! I definitely think that President of North Korea (1972–1994) should be created. I hope I can muster the energy to create it myself; thank you for your kind words and confidence in my abilities. By the way, can you provide some pointers for Kim Jong-un "holding an office officially translated as 'President of the DPRK'"? I haven't stumbled upon any and the desirability of that disambiguation page largely depends on this question in my opinion. In the meantime, I should check out how other language Wikipedias have handle this issue which we have been unable to provide a satisfactory solution to. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 16:35, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

Someone added that recently to the "President of the SAC" article, but it looks like the source is misrepresented. KJU's title changed from Chairman to President, but still of the State Affairs Commission. He's the head of state and I think it's still appropriate to have a disambiguation entry, but I'll update the disambiguation page and the "President of the SAC" page to accurately reflect the source. 73.71.251.64 (talk) 21:20, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

Yes, but I don't think anyone calls Kim "President of North Korea", except by mistaken ignorance. And that mistake has certainly been made even before the head of SAC was titled "President". We might have to discuss the disambiguation page in the near future. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 21:26, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

If you think it's more appropriate to have "President of North Korea (disambiguation)" that's fine with me also. 73.71.251.64 (talk) 21:30, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

KJU's recent title change was from "Chairman of the State Affairs Commission" to "president of the State Affairs". An awkward shift of emphasis that tripped me up, but it is verified from Naenara and Rodong Sinmun. 73.71.251.64 (talk) 17:13, 12 June 2021 (UTC)

If that is the case, President of the State Affairs Commission should probably be moved. By the way, I'm currently writing an article on the original Presidency. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 17:20, 12 June 2021 (UTC)

June thanks

Thank you for improving articles in June, with some impressions of places, flowers and music for you. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:11, 20 June 2021 (UTC)

added: missing SlimVirgin, and RMF festival opening --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:18, 29 June 2021 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Barnett Newman.jpg

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Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --B-bot (talk) 17:09, 25 June 2021 (UTC)

July corner

On DYK today, two songs, a morning song that a cousin gave to me, about the many meanings of rising, and the other praying for the courage to take the necessary steps. The morning song is a GA, - I should write more given my initials, but I also want to care for articles of those who recently died (now Esther Béjarano). - Thank you for improving articles in July, - I come a few days earlier than normally because the bloom is fading already ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:54, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Uuno Klami

Hi! I am trying to expand the biography of Uuno Klami, but the sources in English are few and far between. I see that, regarding the events of Klami's death, there was an article in Helsingin sanomat on 30 May 1961. (There is an image, too tiny to read and thus for me to translate into English via Google Translate, here.) It is my hope that this article will list Klami's cause of death, along with other interesting details. (At present, the Wikipedia bio for Klami says he died of a heart attack while sailing his boat, but this claim is unsourced and I haven't been able to verify it using the English language sources at my disposal. Hence, I'll probably have to delete it.) Do you perhaps have access to the Helsingin sanomat archives? There's also a Finnish language biography of Klami, by Kalevi Aho and a coauthor. I was thinking of ordering it via ILL. Brings back fond memories of how we tackled Leevi Madetoja together with the Salmenhaara biography! Warmly, Silence of Järvenpää (talk) 20:37, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

@Silence of Järvenpää: I am very sorry for the belated reply! I did read your message when you posted it but at that time I had other things to do and could not tell you anything about Klami you did not know already. Things have changed now: I now have a subscription to the full archives of Helsingin Sanomat. I have read the piece in question – Kauko, Olavi (30 May 1961). "Uuno Klami - alkuvoimainen lumooja ja häikäisevä taituri". Helsingin Sanomat (in Finnish). p. 19. – and here's what it says about Klami's death:

"Academician Klami encoutered death at Virlahti. Thrombosis of the brain was anounced as the cause of death. He was immediately transported to hospital but was however unable to be saved. Head of the Academy of Finland prof. A. I. Virtanen: News about the sudden passing of composer Uuno Klami at his hometown Virolahti, where he had moved to in spring according to his usual habit, was a total surprise. His physical fitness and mental alertness seemed to promise him many fertile years of creative work."

The rest of it was very general in nature and talking about his influences and skills. That day's newspaper has nothing else on Klami except for a blurb about this story. The next day's has one about reactions abroad. But if you want me to check that (or any other) article again, I will gladly do so.

The folowing source, however, says Klami died of heart attack: Lehtonen, Tiina-Maija (20 September 2019). "Veitikka ja hurmuri, säveltäjä Uuno Klami Pariisissa 1924–1925 – Musiikin syntymäpäiväkalenteri" (in Finnish). Yle Klassinen. Retrieved 18 August 2021.

"Academician Uuno Klami died of heart attack while fetching milk at Klamila in Virolahti on 29 May 1961."

If you need help with the Finnish book, I'll also try to help. Once again, sorry for having kept you wating! – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 13:10, 18 August 2021 (UTC)

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Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --B-bot (talk) 17:31, 7 August 2021 (UTC)

Talking about Wikipedia

Hi Finnusertop!

I am doing a PhD project on Wikipedia, and I was wondering whether you'd be available to talk to me about your experience as an editor. You can find more information on my profile if you wish, including links to a description of my project. Any questions, let me know! Thanks, ElenaFalco (talk) 09:01, 24 August 2021 (UTC)

August thanks

Thank you for improving articles in August! I try, today DYK for a GA by a banned user. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:29, 24 August 2021 (UTC)

Removed reference you added

Hi, I'm in the process of cleaning up LOC country study references (usually converting generic bottom templates to specific footnotes) and I came across some refs you added that don't check out and figured I'd leave a note here in case I missed something or in case you know what the issue is. Here you added two references to the North Korea country study but I can't find this content in the North Korea country study anywhere. Here's an earwig comparison of the article to the country study.[1] I've removed the references, but if you know of a better fix, I encourage you to implement it! Thanks, Calliopejen1 (talk) 18:04, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

Hello, Calliopejen1, and thanks for dropping by. I too use Earwig's tool for identifying portions of imported text. The problem with your comparison is that it's of the latest, 5th (2008) edition (edited by Worden) of the LOC country study. I have clearly identified an earlier, 4th (1994) edition (edited by Savada) in the refs. If you follow the link in the citation you'll find the full text of the 1994 edition. The comparison checks out. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 19:54, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

Thanks! I figured there was probably an explanation. :) Calliopejen1 (talk) 19:55, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

By the way, if you're interested in adding footnotes to old, terribly referenced content from the LOC country studies, I have a worklist here that includes links to earwig comparisons to speed up the process. Calliopejen1 (talk) 20:05, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

Thank you, Calliopejen1. I am, if I find the time to do so. I've simply done it whenever I stumble across such content or occasionally checking which articles transclude the relevant templates. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 20:15, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

Great! I think it's an extremely worthwhile project. A lot of these articles are tagged up the wazoo with "unreferenced" etc., and being able to swoop in and establish that a reliable source has said all of it (with very little effort) is pretty cool. Calliopejen1 (talk) 20:19, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

I know, Calliopejen1. This is one of my pet peeves as well. Just to get a sense of your workflow, did I do it correctly: [2] [3]? No new footnotes here, just the templates, but you should know by now that I can identify imported text as well :P – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 12:02, 31 August 2021 (UTC)

On the tracking page, I'd just delete the row entirely. I only strike through sources where I've evaluated one or two sources (and they don't contain copying) but not all of them. Otherwise good! Calliopejen1 (talk) 15:51, 31 August 2021 (UTC)

Actually on second thought, I might change some things... Let me look a little more closely and get back to you!! Calliopejen1 (talk) 15:52, 31 August 2021 (UTC)

I further edited the page. This is a typical situation where some detritus has accumulated and people have changed the wording so it no longer matches the source. I put some of it back so that it matches the source and marked the individual sentences unreferenced that are not supported by the source. (I also prefer marking individual sentences as coming from a given source, not paragraphs, but I know that that's an individual preference... So the second paragraph could just as well have a single citation at the end, theoretically.) Calliopejen1 (talk) 15:58, 31 August 2021 (UTC)

Precious anniversary

Precious

Seven years!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:13, 31 August 2021 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for September 1

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Order of the Lion of Finland, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Olympic.

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Pollock

Terve, I noticed the paragraph at the bottom at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pollock

I noticed you wrote: "need to check with sources"

I'm somewhat new to editing on Wikipedia. Does "need to check with sources" mean YOU will check with sources? Or does it ask for OTHERS to check with sources?

kiitos, Miyojewolt S Nasonth (talk) 22:46, 9 September 2021 (UTC)Miyo (Miyojewolt S Nasonth)

Because of its slightly grey colour, pollock is often prepared, as in Norway, as fried fish balls, or if juvenile-sized, breaded with oatmeal and fried, as in Shetland. Year-old fish are traditionally split, salted, and dried over a peat hearth in Orkney, where their texture becomes wooden. Coalfish can also be salted and smoked and achieve a salmon-like orange color (although it is not closely related to the salmon), as is the case in Germany, where the fish is commonly sold as Seelachs or sea salmon.

Hi, Miyojewolt S Nasonth, and thanks for asking. What I meant is for others to check with sources. My concern is that the passage might be describing Alaska pollock instead of pollock, though I could have said that clearer. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 15:02, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

September thanks

September songs

Thank you for improving articles in September, - a good harvest! On Peace Day, Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:11, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

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Jang Jong-nam's birth year

May I ask the source of your edits here? -- 리듬 (talk) 07:39, 1 October 2021 (UTC)

@리듬: If I remember my intentions correctly, it is derived from him being in his 50s as of 2013, which is the date of the Financial Times article sourced for his age. Do you find this too imprecise? How about "c. 1960s"? I did not find relevant instruction at MOS:DOB or MOS:CIRCA. By the way, NK Info, which is probably the best source for birthdate and place data for North Korean officials does not list anything for Jang. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 11:05, 1 October 2021 (UTC)

Nampo

Hello Finnusertop, I've been working on a number of articles for cities and counties for North Korea. Do you think it would be possible to further improve Nampo to good article standard?

Thanks Gorden 2211 (talk) 10:38, 13 October 2021 (UTC)

Hi, Gorden 2211. I think the article on Nampo is in decent state already but yes, there is much to improve. The content it already has is good, and I would concentrate efforts on expanding it. Some of the claims made in the article should be checked against newer sources to see if things have changed. In particular, North Korean cities tend to get a fairly low-key treatment in reliable sources, so it can be difficult to find both comprehensive and up-to-date facts to write about. Then there is copyediting of course (I did some of that but still have some ideas). WP:GACR standards are quite stringent, so one should keep improving the article and every now and then ask the question one's self if it's ready. I think it's possible but it requires a lot of effort. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 22:28, 15 October 2021 (UTC)

I Need some help.

Hello, I have read the articles you have published, and I find them very interesting. I need help with an article I wrote, the article has already been viewed once, and it was not accepted. I edited the article, taking into account the recommendations that had been made. I had started chatting with the contributor who read my article, in order to improve it. But that is no longer possible because it has been banned from Wikipedia. You are more experienced than me, could you take a look at my article, and let me know if you think it is ok or if I need to edit This is an article about a contemporary French painter who is alive. The article is very short. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Hom_Nguyen Thank you for any help you can give me — Preceding unsigned comment added by Thx2020 (talk • contribs) 09:40, 18 October 2021 (UTC)

Hi, Thx2020, and thank you for the kinds words. I took a look at your draft. Because the reviewer who declined it has been blocked, you definitely deserve a new review. That being said, I agree with the reason they gave: the tone and content of the article consist of a bit too much praise. You should do some work on it before submitting it again. Try to go through all the sources you've already found, and perhaps even find new ones, and see what kind of basic biographical detail they give about Hom Nguyen. What is his family like? What did he do prior to painting? Did he have some sort of education? Has he lived in other places? Is he a professional artist, or does he also do some other type of work? Right now, you have only picked all the good things people have said about hit. Some of them can probably stay in the article, yes, but reading it I don't really get to know who Hom Nguyen is. On the other hand, I think you've done a great job with the Exhibitions section. I rarely see such comprehensive and well -rafted lists of exhibitions. If you have any more questions, I'll help you. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 21:23, 18 October 2021 (UTC)

Hi,Finnusertop thank you so much for your time and your help. He is an artist with a very special history. But I didn't want to talk about it because I was afraid it might not be very Wikipedia and too emotional, I wanted to be as sober as possible, that's why I didn't talk about it. This is what we know about this artist:

This artist lived alone with his mother, he has no other family. When this artist was a child (around 3 years old), his mother had a serious car accident and she lost the use of her legs. He therefore lived most of his life with a disabled, paraplegic mother. All his childhood he knew her through hospitals. (today this artist paints women and children a lot). This artist was born in Paris and has always lived there. He started to work very young because his disabled mother could not work. He was a shoe salesman, never took drawing lessons or attended art school. When his mother died, he began to paint and draw and became an artist. And 13 years later, he is a French artist who sells his works all over the world, in major international fairs, realizes solo shows, participates in charity sales to major world-famous artists.

Do I have to talk about this? The only interesting source that I have found regarding it is an interview which was broadcast on the Yahoo France portal, this interview was carried out by a very well known French musician artist Manu Katché. I can rely on this source, because his childhood is told in a lot of magazines, but they are not online, so I do not make any connections !!!

Another question, I read that this artist will soon be awarded the Order of National Merit ( ordre national du mérite). Do you think I should talk about it, if so?

Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by Thx2020 (talk • contribs) 15:27, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

Hello again, Thx2020! Yes, those kinds of biographical details you list would improve the article. As long as you can point to a source that has them. You can use the interview you mention, although interviews are not perfect sources. We don't simply "trust" people telling the full and honest story about themselves. While it's probably not such a problem with this artist, there are obviously other people who have not always told the truth about them, so we have to apply this principle to everyone. You can use the interview, but you should give the context. Write something like: "In an interview with Manu Katché, Nguyen said that...". Or even quote him: "In the interview, Nguyen sad: '...' ".

By the way, you can use sources that are not online, such as magazines, newspapers, and books. In fact, for many topics, those are also the best kind of sources that have more information and with the most reliable publishers. Cite them the same way you would cite a website: just give the name of the magazine, the date, title of the article, and its author.

As for the Ordre national du Mérite, I would wait until he is actually awarded one. Speculation about things that might happen is usually not good in a Wikipedia article.

I know, it is a distinctive talent to write in a neutral and non-emotional way, but this is what Wikipedia does. We have articles even on many controversial topics, and they are all written from a neutral point of view. Just give the facts, and if there is praise or criticism, tell who said that and don't make it seem like your own or Wikipedia's opinion. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 16:36, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

Hello Finnusertop , I have improved the draft and also added new sources , especially magazines , that s good sources and that s was such mess not to use it. Thanks to you , you made me realised I Can Use it. I wish to publish it for a new review . But before , I m waiting you read it , and you tell me if this article is finely good enough or not  ? Thank you Thx2020 (talk) 15:42, 22 October 2021 (UTC)

@Thx2020: I think it's coming along nicely. I performed some copy editing on it so that it will be as ready as possible. The article on French Wikipedia is quite a bit longer though, so there is still room for expansion. You can do that by using the sources found in the French Wikipedia and using your own words. Or you can even translate parts of it verbatim. If you want to translate, the only thing you need to know is to add in your edit summary a line: "Content in this edit is translated from the existing French Wikipedia article at fr:Hom Nguyen; see its history for attribution." That's all! – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 04:47, 26 October 2021 (UTC)

@Finnusertop:Great thanks for your contributions, that ' so great!! I have made little expansion, using sources found in the French Wikipedia, and I had mentionned it in the summary edit. Do you have tips , for accelerating the review ? I wish not to wait months , if this is possible ?Thx2020 (talk) 12:13, 31 October 2021 (UTC)

@Thx2020: I'm afraid you'll just have to wait now. The review time varies and it can be anything from very short to very long. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 20:22, 1 November 2021 (UTC)

@Finnusertop: hello, I found an interesting source. It is a UNESCO branch at the Sorbonne University. They produced an article: Inspirational Personality Portraits. do I have to put this source in external link? § — Preceding unsigned comment added by Thx2020 (talk • contribs) 14:16, 10 November 2021 (UTC)

@Thx2020: if it includes some new information that you wish to cite, just cite it the way you cited the other websites and magazines. The "External links" section is for links to websites that provide additional resources but were not used as sources in the article. Put it in that section if you think the reader might want to read it or perhaps to see the pictures. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 17:25, 10 November 2021 (UTC)

@Finnusertop: How are you ? I have put an infobox on the draft, if you can check it and tell me if it's good or should I retire it ? Thanks--Thx2020 (talk) 02:35, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

@Thx2020: I'm fine, thanks! The infobox is a good addition. I've changed it to use the more specific Template:Infobox artist and made some other fixes. Did he get the Ordre national yet? So far that lacks a source. Also, one thing to keep in mind is that names of artwork should go in italics. For instance, is his portrait of Napoleon titled Napoléon? If so, it should be italicized. It's very good to see the draft continuing with improvements. I'll check back every once in a while with fixes if needed. You can ask about any of my edits to the draft if you're interested, most of it is just minor issues from our Wikipedia:Manual of Style. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 09:53, 28 November 2021 (UTC)

@Finnusertop: first again and again : thank you :). He got the Ordre national. Here is the link , and I indicate precisely more informations. I didn't knew where to put this sources ? https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/jorf/jo/2021/11/25/0274 ( Texte 3 sur 158 - Décret du 24 novembre 2021 portant promotion et nomination dans l’ordre national du Mérite. - Ministère de la cohésion des territoires et des relations et des relations avec les collectivités territoriales – Au Grade de Chevalier - . His Napoleon portrait is titled " Napoleon " . I m going to italicized it.Thx2020 (talk) 17:44, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

@Thx2020: very cool! I've added the order in the main text with the reference you provided. When the same information appears both in the body of the article and the lead section or infobox the reference doesnt need to be repeated. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 18:10, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

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Got it! Thanks for letting me know. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 22:02, 1 December 2021 (UTC)

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Hi, Daeron, and thanks for dropping by. When I consulted the website on 19/20 June 2020, West Papua was indeed listed as a former member. The current website lists them as current member again. I've returned it in the article's list and the template. The two others I moved are still listed as former members. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 13:39, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

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