User talk:Zippstar

Welcome

Welcome!

Hello, Zippstar, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on discussion pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place {{helpme}} before the question. Again, welcome! Cheers. _{Trance addict - Tiesto - Above and Beyond} 03:01, 10 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

England/ Wales/ Scotland/ N. Ireland

Hallo, I thought that I'd contact you here because, otherwise, the discussion will turn into a full-on debate and take over the page! I'm trying to think of any countries which contain countries that are also part of the same country and I cannot. I'm not saying that there aren't any, just that I can't think of any. If you can help me, I may be forced to concede. With just about all of the countries that I can think of, I can "name" the inhabitants, for example; Chinese people come from China, Senegalese, from Senegal, Finnish from Finland, Russian from Russia, Egyptian from Egypt. What do you call someone from the U.K.? I didn't mean that because the U.K. was a kingdom, that prevented it from being a country but that it was a collection, for want of a better word, OF countries, both declared and recognised and therefore, how could it be a country? (Zippstar (talk) 19:30, 11 June 2008 (UTC))[reply]

Hi. You seem to be asking several different questions here:

1) Are there any other countries that contain countries?

Hard to say. the UK is certainly unusual in this regard, but then it's unusual in other respects too. The best modern example is Spain. This contains Catalonia and part of the Basque Country. Admittedly, not everyone would call Catalonia a country, but very many people certainly would. And no one would deny that Spain is a country. A good historical example is the Soviet Union, which was itself a country, but contained within itself numerous smaller countries.

2) Are there any other countries where the name for the inhabitants is related to the name for the country?

How about the Netherlands? And we don't call inhabitants of the USA Usanians — not in English anyhow. The thing is that this is specific to the English language in any case.

3) What do you call someone from the UK?

British or (as a noun) a Briton.

4) Can a collection of countries be called a country?

Yes, why not?

So people from Britain are called Britons, and some of those Britons are Welsh, others English, other Scottish, and others Northern Irish. Some, who have lived all over the country, call themselves just British. But this still has nothing to do with whether or not the UK is a country. It is a Kingdom made up of smaller parts that are themselves countries. None of this means that the UK itself is not also a country. I don't understand your difficulty here: why can't a collection of countries also be a country? Even if the UK were the only example in the modern world of this phenomenon, there's nothing to say that it can't be so. garik (talk) 20:20, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hallo, again.

You have raised some good points. Indeed, people from the Netherlands/ Low Countries/ Holland, we call Dutch. Is Britain not the island comprising England, Scotland and Wales? Northern Ireland is not part of Great Britain or the British Isles, so why would its inhabitants be called British? The U.S.A are, of course, the United States of America and the inhabitants are known, simply, as Americans. Difficulty? I think that, probably, for the first time, I'm questioning my notion of what a country is. (I hope that I'm not the only one.) I've never known the U.K. as a country but a nation of countries, likewise the Soviet Union (C.C.C.P.), as my father lived there, specifically Russia. What did we call those people? I'm always questioning and my family come from a land that had its own rules before borders were drawn by foreigners, so maybe I'm used to seeing things differently. Thank you for your input. Feel free to write to me any time. (Zippstar (talk) 21:08, 11 June 2008 (UTC))[reply]

You don't call all people from the Netherlands Dutch, people from Eindhoven and elsewhere would be insulted. --Snowded (talk) 23:23, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Dutch - of, or relating to the Netherlands, its people, or their language (collectively). This was only to highlight an example of a valid point which had been made; that of not calling all people after their country (and I didn't say all people).(Zippstar (talk) 01:12, 12 June 2008 (UTC))[reply]

Not, to do that is like calling someone Welsh English. Dutch applies to the dominant area around Amsterdam, or calling someone from Georgia a Russian --Snowded (talk) 05:34, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I say again; I didn't say that ALL people from the Netherlands were called Dutch, as that wasn't the issue and I checked a number of sources before replying.(Zippstar (talk) 12:01, 12 June 2008 (UTC))[reply]

Your comment on my talk page

You need to read up on some history, and you also need to look at the sheer volume of debate on this to appreciate why raising something without knowledge of history will not be welcome. The UK has a complex history, but it is a country. I may be Welsh but I am also British. Northern Ireland - people will call themselves British or Irish (or possibly Ulster men/women according to their politics). It is in the list of countries on Wikipedia and that has been well debated. Look everyone likes a debate, but no one wants this debate. The energy on the country status of Wales and Scotland, the issues on Irish Identity. This is a minefield. Please don't --Snowded (talk) 23:21, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Its never wrong to raise something, but you do need to be aware of the context. I think most people responded to you (including me) with some facts and a plea not to raise a subject which has been resolved and which took far too much energy. I don't think you were met with hostility by the way. --Snowded (talk) 05:12, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]