Calling Down the Craft: Adventures with the Mind

A video interview with Bill Hamilton

Laughlin, Nevada, March 2006
Shot, edited and directed by Kerry Lynn Cassidy
Bill Hamilton: Have I seen a UFO? Many UFOs.
Kerry Cassidy: Many UFOs. And could you tell us who you are?
B: Well, my name is Bill Hamilton. Ive been involved in UFO research
probably most of my life. I got involved in the actual investigation of cases
starting in 1976 with the Brian Scott case. And thats when I joined MUFON
and became a Field
Investigator.
K: So how long
were you a Field
Investigator for
MUFON?
B: Probably since
19... well, let me
see... 25 years off
and on...
K: How did you
interact with aliens?
B: ...it was 1957.
K: Wow.
B: And what I knew
about UFOs I had learned from what I call the California Contactees back at
that time. And there wasnt a lot of controversy about the contactees, about
UFOs or whatever. In fact, I had started to meet the contactees. And I was
only 14 and I had a buddy in high school... we were freshmen in high
school... and I said, I would like to try an experiment. I would like to try an
experiment along the same lines that George Hunt Williamson did in
attempting contact with these UFOs. Right? Now, I believe theyre there but
I want to see if I can contact them. We tried this experiment, and obviously

we did not have the ham radio equipment. We didnt have anything that we
could use except an attempt at psychic contact by using pencil and paper.
And when we initiated this little experiment we started to hear a sound that
was reverberating throughout the room. And so we got up and we looked all
around the apartment. He and I were.... He was a French-Canadian named
Yves [Lauriault]. He and I were together alone in his parents apartment. And
we couldnt locate the source of the sound, so we decided to go outdoors.
When we went outdoors it seemed like the sound was emanating from the
sky above us. So we discontinued our little experiment, went downstairs and
sat on the grass. And as soon as we did this, the first thing that we saw was
a very... well, it looked to us like it was tiny... a tiny red glowing disc just
glides right over our heads. Soundlessly. One came by. A second one came
by. At that moment in time, unknown to me, Yves continued the experiment.
He was sending out these mental requests for the second object that passed
over to turn around and come back. And what happened is, as soon as he did
that, the object executed a turn, a very, very tight 180 and came right back
over our heads.
K: Wow.
B: And so he told me what he was doing and he said, If we see more, lets
do it together. And we saw two more appear. And they were all traveling
from north to south, and so we sent out a request for them to turn around
and follow each other, right? And they did. I mean, it was almost instantly.
Well, all together that night we saw fourteen objects. After that, Yves father
had to move and took Yves out of school and I didnt see him again. In fact, I
havent seen him until about, oh, three years ago. He found me on the
internet. And I found out he was right over in Bakersfield, and he drove over
to see me. When we talked I also found out that was the only UFO
experience he ever had and he still remembered every detail. He was
impressed by it.
So that was unknown to me at the time, and I continued the experiment for
three years, only from my house. Right? And so I took my... I was living with
my aunt and my grandmother and I took her outside and said, Ive got one
up there now. And she said, Im watching television. And I said, Well, you
told me to tell you when I saw one, that youd like to see it. So I took her
out there and [pointing upward] I said, There it is. And she said, Thats
it? And I said, Yeah. Right now it just looks like a light, bright in the sky, I
said, but watch this [gesturing upward left, then right] Turn left. Turn right.
She turns white as a sheet and she said, Oh my God, youre talking to it.
And I said, Yeah, thats what Ive been telling you all along. And then it
occurred to me that she was just humoring me until she saw it for herself.

K: Wow.
B: And these experiments continued, so that... I had a very large object in
1958. Hovered. It was coming in faster than a jet and stopped on a dime. I
had a friend from across the street over. I had my first telescope. This thing
was as big as a 747 and it just hung in the air. That is what stimulated me to
think, How did it do that? Im going to study the science of gravity. Im
going to find out how it defies gravity. And inertia.... Right? Two basic
qualities of a physical object thats in motion, right? Because when this
thing... It flipped end-over-end and it started up again... I mean it was just
like it had no mass. It just went whoosh and started to climb and at that
moment, I mean, my friend was looking through the telescope. It took that
long for him to respond, look up and see it rise into the clouds.
And then I used to... then I started calling them down, like using them for a
Yes/No game. Right? It didnt even occur to me that there were logistics to
this or anything. Right? Just... Oh, I just met this new person says their a
contactee. If this is true, do you know about it? Can you show me? Right?
And sometimes theyd come over, dashing right over my head about 100
yards up. I mean, now they get lower, right?
Ah, then there was another time when it seemed like I was bathed in some
kind of electrical shower. Right? And then I could... I started getting
telepathic answers. Very short. Right? But one of them just struck me, I
think it was around 1959. It was golden. It was a golden disc. Just beautiful.
Just hanging there and it said, Wake up your mind. Youre in a deep sleep.
Yeah, and that stayed with me.
Another time we were out in the desert experimenting with a lightbeam
transceiver to communicate with them. And there was about 14 people. The
guy you saw downstairs, Bob Short, was out there and he can remember the
incident because we were using the lightbeam transmitter for line-of-sight
transmission into the sky, saying, If you receive our signal, could you please
respond? Of course, we were hoping for a signal back. They never
responded through the lightbeam transceiver, although some people have
been successful with them. Instead, for some reason, and there were others
who were contactees out there that day, I was the one that heard, you know,
just like they did over my driveway, they repeated this message. And they
said, Look for our bright blue flare in the west. Three times. And I said, I
better tell my buddy John here because if it happens hes not going to
believe me if I tell him after the fact. So I told him. After I told him exactly
what the words were, Bob Short, whos downstairs, said... Somebody had
asked him, Well, what direction is west? And it was just like synchronized
to some kind of... you know, its just like theatre with these people. Right?

K: [laughs]
B: He points just like this... and just as he did, a blue bolide came right
down. It looked like barbells, right? Very unusual. Beautiful. And John wrote
about it eventually in his book but he decided to leave my name out.
K: This was John....?
B: This was John McCoy from Texas.
K: So, where... Are you from.... did this happen mainly in Texas?
B: This happened in the high desert of California.
K: Ah.
B: Im not from Texas... although Ive spent time in the Air Force there.
My contactee type of experiences... I mean, a saucer never landed and
invited me aboard. I do believe that I had encounters with people here on
Earth that were not from Earth. Very brief encounters. Back then, and even
later on, okay, they always seemed to happen at about the time that I
launched an investigation into something. I wanted to know the answers.
I went to college, left that contactee era behind me. Dropped out of college
due to economic necessity, joined the Air Force, went into Air Force Security
Service. Had one sighting while I was in the Air Force. Got discharged. Went
into the aerospace industry. I wanted to be an aerospace engineer. That
didnt happen because the aerospace industry collapsed. I got into
computers. I started... I went to night school, learned programming, became
a programmer. Been one ever since.
K: You work at UCLA? Is that right?
B: I work at UCLA as a programmer/analyst, senior programmer/analyst.
Just about to retire. I always loved science and engineering, so kind of
regretted not going along that line.
People on Earth who are not from Earth
K: So you say youve had interactions with beings that... Im assuming they
look human?
B: These people can move among us. They could be downstairs and mingle
and you wouldnt know it.

K: Uh huh.
B: Now, it isnt because they dont have a few distinguishing features, theyre
kind of like heightened features. Theyre... in appearance, theyre perfect.
They would be our conception of perfect men and women. I mean, they have
absolute symmetry of features. They have flawless skin. They have perfect
eyesight, perfect teeth, perfect form. Everything seems perfect, as if they
have mastered the genetic master plan. One difference is, you might notice if
you looked at them, is their eyes. Some of them have a little different eye
coloring than you would see in a human, or theyll have these little sparkling
silver or golden flakes in their eyes.
K: Hmm.
B: These types also were extremely strong. A five-foot-three woman could
lift a six-foot-four man right off the ground with the strength of ten men.
They could bend their fingers back. They say we are related to them. Were...
we are the hybrids, not them; they are the pure form of man, right? Hu-Man,
right?
That was the story we got back in those days. Lots of contacts in the 1960s.
I actually saw two of them driving a car on a highway and they wanted to
make contact with me. They let me know. And its because there was
another person I knew in Hollywood who had contact with them who told me
about that incident that happened on the highway, that Im fairly convinced,
because she wasnt there, and so how did she know? Right?
I got interested in some of the, ah... I started hearing about abductions,
right? You know, Betty Hill abduction and everything. And at first I rejected
them. That wasnt... did not conform to the pattern that I already knew. And
believe me, back in the 50s there were a lot of people that had contact
experiences that never got up on a lecture stand, never wrote a book, were
never interviewed on it, but I spoke to them.
K: Uh huh.
B: And in one particular case, some of these people showed up out at Giant
Rock, four of them, with 36 witnesses, out there. By the time I started going
out there, I could only find two or three witnesses out of those 36.
[missing dialog for five seconds]
And the person I really felt strong about was George Van Tassel. I became
good friends with George Van Tassel. I had so many conversations with that

man, hours of them. You know, I just admired him. He had this tremendous
breadth of knowledge and he didnt have any real higher formal education.
The other person I knew very well was Daniel Fry, because I was vice
president of this group. And he was a brilliant guy, and he didnt have any
formal education.
K: Hm. So, youve been sort of one of the main researchers involved with
Dan Burisch, right?
B: Yes, well, thats coming way up in time because it was, when I started to
investigate Brian Scott in the 1970s, who was an abductee/ contactee. He
was both, right? Ah, I spent four years on that case. Thats how fascinating.
And then it was during that period of time I spent four years that I had two
of these guys walk into my house.
K: Two of what guys?
B: Whoever they were!
K & B: [laughs]
B: But they came into my house. Well, I ran a rooming house with my wife in
Los Angeles at the time. Shes now deceased. But they came through that
door. My friend John was in the kitchen. He never heard the door open. They
just walked down the hallway. And they were dressed in suits and they said,
Were from the Health Department. Weve received a complaint. We need to
inspect the house. This guy... one goes upstairs. It was a three-room
rooming house, I mean three-story rooming house. The other one went into
what I would call my library room. I had all these books and I had a section
all on UFOs. He goes into this room and I thought, Well, hes going to look
at the floor, right? For cockroaches, or mice, or something, right? Whats he
doing? No. Hes looking at my UFO books! So I stood in the doorway so that
he couldnt get out of the room unless he came by me. So he came right up
to me, I looked right into his eyes.... and my brain jammed because I
thought I was looking right into infinity, into... a highly evolved being. I
mean, I cant even begin to tell you the feeling that I had at that moment.
And Im thinking, Who are you? Why dont you say something to me?
Right? Thats what Im thinking when his partner comes down the stairs and
says, We have to go now.
So they exit the back door and I follow them out and this guy that was in my
library, he turns around at the end of the steps and says, Do you have a
cigarette? And I said, Yeah. At that time I smoked, so I gave him a Benson
& Hedges. And then he goes... he looks at me... he says, Do you have a

light for this cigarette? And I had one of the new Bic lighters and I handed it
to him. And he took it, but he had it upside-down. And hes looking at this
thing and he reaches for me like this [demonstrates holding lighter out], and
said, Would-you-please-operate-this-mechanism-for-me? Now, who talks
like that, right? And I said, Oh, OK, like he was a child. I showed him how it
worked and lit his cigarette. And it was like he wanted to know what it as
like, right? He took a draw, threw it away. We have to go now. So I yelled
to my friend John. I said, John, get out here on the double. So he comes
out. These guys headed for an alleyway, right? And I am only one house over
from an intersection of two streets. I say, John, you take that street, Ill
take this street. I want to know what car they get into. And I mean we ran
to the street just as they disappeared out of sight. When I got back to... I
said, Well, John, I didnt see anything, did you? He said, No. I said, You
didnt see a car pull away? No. Well, did you see the men walking? No.
They vanished! Right away I went to my wife and I said, Call the Health
Department now. I want to know who they sent down and why. She called.
Theyd never sent anybody down.
K: [laughs]
B: And what happened? A few days later, one of these... two more guys
show up at Dennys Restaurant. And I wont go through that whole scenario
except one guy said... as we were listening to what they were talking about
because he was mentioning Brian Scott. And Im going, How do two
strangers know about Brian?... he said to his partner, The humans are
upset. And when I looked into his blue eyes, the same feeling...
K: Mmm...
B: Right? And Im going, Who are these people? And they can walk right
among us. Its... well... my story is really not significant. Theres no way I
could prove these people were something extremely unusual. Other people
have reported these type of encounters. Even Timothy Good has reported
that type of encounter.
Collecting Testimony
K: Did you write a book about Brian Scott?
B: Yeah. Well, I wrote... When I finally got published it was only one chapter
in Alien Magic. I think it was chapter two. It was all about Brian.
K: Because I was, you know... you said... you went to Brian when we talked
about Dan Burisch, and Im curious about that.

B: Ah, yeah, because Brian was the first time I had heard about the years
2011 and 2012. When I met Dan Burisch later on, Im hearing about 2012.
(Im just trying to rapidly scan through this.) I went from being interested in
that... During that period of time I was interested in the Brian Scott case I
had people coming to me that were former military people. This is how I got
involved in that part. That turned into the 80s and I had investigated, oh,
about a dozen abduction cases by then as a MUFON investigator. And/or
sites, right? Whatever there was in my area. And then, you know, I even
gave Field Investigator training classes after a while, you know, and I started
really getting into it because I was good at [laughs] scientific investigation at
least. I had no training as far as, you know, detective, police type investi...
or forensics, right? but that fits in there too.
K: Uh huh.
B: But, see, I transited over into suddenly people telling me about crash
retrievals. And I got interested in that. Crash retrievals during the mid 80s
moved into underground bases and Area 51. I first heard about Area 51 in
1984 and about Lt. Robert Vaughn and how he died when his plane crashed.
Lt.-Commander... I mean Lt.-General Robert Vaughn who was Vice
Commander of the Air Force Systems Command. Im going, Its awfully
unusual for him to be test flying some aircraft, right? Why would a Vice
Commander go out there and risk his life? They use lieutenants, captains,
and majors for doing test flights. I was in the Air Force then, by the way. I
was in Air Force Security Service. I had a Top Secret Crypto clearance. So I
was also familiar with...
K: So lets hear a little about that. Did you... at the time you were in the Air
Force you were not privy to, Im assuming, the UFO ...
B: No. No, no, no.
K: OK. But you always had this history behind you. Do you think that, or
was, the Air Force aware of that history?
B: Yes. Well, I needed to have a Top Secret clearance. The FBI took six
months to give me that clearance. They talked to some of my friends who
knew me out at Giant Rock... spacecraft conventions! I thought, Thats it.
Theyll never give me a clearance.
K: [laughs]
B: Right? No. No. They all... these friends gave me a glowing report, so they
took me. I got my clearance.

K: Wow. So OK. So as far as Dan Burisch is concerned....

B: Yeah, he came along much later. I mean, I went through about... I had
collected testimony by that time that Steven Greer...you know who he is...
K: Yeah.
B: ... got involved in his project of witnesses. He got his first witnesses from
me. At that time I had no project in mind, like he did, you know, going to
Congress? All I was doing was trying to collect the testimony. I was trying to
keep confidential some of these peoples names because they requested it
and I knew they would just shut me off if I started yapping all over the place.
But I was trying to find out what was going on. I had teamed up with Bill
Steinman at the time. Bill Steinman lead me to John Lear. John Lear led me
to investigate Dulce, New Mexico. I went over there, drove all around that
place with Gabe Valdez back in the 80s. I got hooked up with my friend Tal
who was an insider/outsider, you know, one foot in, one foot out... kept
giving me tips and information and what have you, to track down.
So I got very involved. I met a guy in the 90s that was in reverse
engineering, that had flown one of our reverse engineered craft to the moon
and back. I mean, it was getting deeper and deeper, right?
Bob Lazar
K: Did you ever meet Bob Lazar?
B: Yep. I knew about Bob Lazar before anybody else did, through John Lear.
K: Oh, of course. Of course.
B: John Lear called me up one day: Hey, Ive got a story to tell you, Bill.
What? Weve gotta go for a ride. (He was a little paranoid.) Lets get in
my truck. And he told me all about Bob Lazar except his name, at the time,
because, you know, I guess... But he told me things about Bob, that Bob had
told him, that Bob never mentioned. And, what... you know, John believes is
that they tinkered with his memory, right? Because he had heard all this stuff
about the moon from Bob Lazar and stuff like that. Bob is, No way, no way.
But one day...
K: OK. Wait ... thats a little unclear. Youre saying they tinkered with Bob
Lazars memory?
B: Yes, with his memory.

K: Not John Lears.

B: No, not John Lears. In others words, Bob had... according to John, Bob
had related all of this information to John which later Bob denied that he
had...
K: Yes, in a certain sense there was a disconnect. He kind of, like, forgot ....
B: Right. There was a disconnect.
K: ... that he ever knew that.
B: Right.
K: OK. So theres... yes... theres some question as far as that goes. So, OK,
so on the trail to Dan Burisch ...
Bill Uhouse / J-Rod
B: Then I met Bill Uhouse.
K: OK.
B: Thats an important event. Bill Uhouse was a mechanical engineer who,
speaking out at Rachel and people that you ought to meet Uhouse, cause
by that time I had been speaking about some of these disclosure people
were talking about. So I met Bill Uhouse and I thought it was hilarious. Here
he had been working on a flight simulator for flying discs so our pilots could
learn how to fly them and one of the chief consultants on this top secret
project was an alien that he called J-Rod! Right? And thats where I first
heard about J-Rod. In 1999 Im on the internet and I find there is a website I
stumbled across when I, you know, typed in a search or something and here
was this document, and I said, Boy, this documents awfully technical. Ive
never seen a document that was technical like this. We call it the Q94
document. And Im reading through it, and I stopped when I got there and I
saw: Extraterrestrial Biological Entity: AQ-J-Rod. J-Rod. You know whoa!
Wait a minute! And it was signed Captain Danny B. Crain, Ph.D.
Dan Burisch / MJ-12 / Getting the truth out
So I got ahold of the person and I ordered a copy of this, flashed it around
MUFON and said, Hey, is anybody interested in this? I couldnt rouse any
interest. [laughs] And Im, like, OK. And I couldnt get any more
information until 2002 when this person, Marci, contacted me and she said,
You know, Bill, I need help. I need help. Dans in trouble... dadada. And at

that point I had not met Dan, I had not met Marci, and she just called me at
work at UCLA and I said, We have to sit down and talk.
And I think it was on a Friday. It was before... I was going to leave, go up to
Vegas on that Saturday, and she called me in the afternoon just before I left
and said, Bill, how would you like to meet Dan? And I said, Are you
kidding? Can you arrange that? And she said, Yes I can. So when I went
there I not only met Marci for the first time, I met Dan. And when he first
saw me... and I was wearing an Air Force cap... he took all these papers and
his briefcase and he stuffed all the papers in the briefcase and he ran out of
that room, cause he didnt know who I was. And I said, Oh, no, you know.
And Marci said, Ill handle it, and went over to the elevator. Called me back
in about five minutes later, and introduced me to Dan. And he was, like,
shaking. I mean, Im serious. And he said, You know I have to...." he said,
"Im very sorry I reacted like that. I have to watch myself. Ive only got, you
know, two hours of liberty. Right? And Marci says, Ive got a private room,
you know, the library where we were. And so we went in there. I had one
hour with him. He was very nervous. He had a cold or something that first
time, but some of the answers he gave me that first time knocked my socks
off. I said this guy has met an alien, because there were certain things that
he knew that were so typical that I had picked up along the way from Brian,
from everyone, right?
K: And you certainly had a background at that point to be able to evaluate
somebody like that...
B: Oh yeah, after 25 years...
K: Who was Marci? Who is Marci, would you say? Shes an agent?
B: No, she was just... she was working for the State of Nevada, OK? She had
a job in human resources because shes got a masters degree in, ah... what
do they call it... organizational psychology, which they hire the psych people
in human resources. She was working with computers. Shes very good at
that. Shes worked in casinos. She did casino surveillance, you know, with
those cameras?
K: Uh huh.
B: She even wrote a book about... yeah.
K: How did she get involved with Dan, then?

B: She met him... well, thats a good question, because the first story that
came to me is Dans mother was working at that same casino. Dan was
working at that casino. Security. And she had observed him on camera a
couple times doing some unusual things, like going into this office, punching
in a code, hanging up the telephone, the telephone ringing and she could
hear him saying, Yes sir. Yes sir. Yes sir. Things like this. So Dan approached
her because she had some writing experience and said, I want to get out a
story. Its about research Ive done on the planet Mars as a biome. And she
said, Ah, really? So she got involved, and as things progressed she found
out... or she was warn... She got warnings: Watch out, this man is involved
with Area 51. Area 51? Not that story. And she said, Thats just a popular
legend here in Las Vegas. And oh, no, this was for real and so people were
starting to give her documents. In fact I got a copy of one of them which I
published in my book, which is a security oath that he signed up at the
Tonopah test site back in the 80s. So... now, ostensibly they wrote the book.
There were a couple of other men involved in that, and Dan, and her. It was
called Eagles Disobey.
K: You cant get that book now, isnt that right?
B: There are copies of it but... she had assigned the rights to somebody and
that somebody did not assign the rights back to her when she requested it.
The thing is, the only thing is, one day I get an e-mail from Marci, now 2002,
3, 4... time passes on. At one point there she thinks Dan has been captured
or died or hurt or something. She doesnt know. Shes scared. Some of her
contacts that she had told her, Youd be safer to get out of town. So... she
came from Canada... so she went back to Canada. She contacted me when
she was in Canada. And she started saying, Im being followed. People are
following me everywhere and Im worried, and somethings going on. And
then I get... well, see, I got mysterious letters also in the mail, when it all
started.
K: From....? I mean, are they... well, lets say, they are from the community,
so to speak?
B: From the black community. The black ops community.
K: Threatening letters?
B: No, not so much threatening as just saying... just giving me some
information. Or just saying, Heres the status of things. Ah, Its kind of
dangerous. Right? We are friends of Dans but, you know, certain things are
going on. Well, this one... this guy sent me not only a letter, he sent me a
photocopy, color photocopy, of Marci from various angles in her apartment,

her bathroom, her... [laughs]. In other words, there was planted cameras all
over the place. And then finally sent me a picture of her with a Majestic
badge... MAJ. OK? It usually has a letter and four numbers, just like Bob
Lazars, only instead of 'H', like, Dan had an 'E'. Right?
K: Symbolizing...?
B: Her website was taken down. Her e-mail was deleted. I had no contact
with her. It was just, like, I got that letter and then that was it.
K: Have you heard from her... youve heard from her since then?
B: Well, then I got word that she was back in Vegas...
K: OK....
B: ... not only back in Vegas, but working with Dan as his operations
director!
K: OK. So what did the 'E' symbolize on that badge? Do you know?
B: I havent found out to date. I dont know what the 'H' or 'E' means, and
Ive asked. Maybe theyll tell me one of these days. I dont know. But it
designates a classification of job assignment, I guess.
K: OK... so...
B: Im assuming the 'H' has to do with science.
K: What year was it that she sort of disappeared?
B: Ah, late 2003. Reappeared 2004, now as a member of Majestic.
K: She .. I mean, youre sitting there saying shes a member of Majestic.
B: Oh absolutely. Yeah. But...
K: Werent you...
B: I found out....
K: I heard....
B: ... another story.

K: Oh.
B: OK. Thats the top story, right?
K: Sure.
B: And theres a story under that, and the story under that is she met Dan in
1980 in the UK. Not only that, there were... See, theres all kinds... this is
whats so mysterious. Somebody starts sending us background material.
Everything I could check out absolutely checked out. Ive had conversations
recorded, e-mail intercepted. I was walking with my friend Winston outdoors.
We were talking. That conversation was picked up by a spy device. Outdoors.
K: Right.
B: And regurgitated back to me in an e-mail.
K: Ah.
B: There were some errors, which was interesting. I have met Dan and had
photographs, taken from unknown people standing somewhere behind me in
a casino, sent to me by e-mail, to the point where I started saying, Hey.
Boy, this is either an elaborate hoax involving many people or its the real
thing. Right? This is a covert operation of some kind. Because they have
sophisticated enough technology that they could tap into our conversations
indoors or outdoors. They can intercept my e-mail. They intercepted an email from my friend Alan to me. That was just from him to me. It had some
confidential information that they... and they wished to let us know that they
knew.
K: Right.
B: So that was the kind of thing that became more and more convincing all
along.
K: OK. Now. Ive heard that you were invited to join Majestic. Is that a
rumor, or is that true?
B: Ah, let me say this. I knocked on the door. I started thinking. Dan, you
know they sent you to school. I never completed my education in physics or
engineering... Maybe theyll send me. You know? And I said, Could you get
me in? You know? You think theyll take me up to S-4 or... anything? I
said, Lazar talked his way into it, maybe I can talk my way into it. I said, I
have the opportunity here.

K: Uh huh.
B: And so at some point, I think it was in 2004, in March 2004, Dan
requested that I research something in physics, or... actually pertaining to
biophysics. It was something he was looking into. And he said, You know...
send me a paper on it. So I did... two... on biophotonics. He said, This is
great. And... and thats something. He folded my papers up with all of his
and went off to Washington, DC, and delivered them. And I went... Did I
just contribute something to your project? [laughs] And he said, Yep. Its a
matter of record now. Right? And he said, Dont worry. Its good stuff. And
Im going, Well, great. And I said, Wait a minute. If Im going to do that, I
want... I want the door to open. Well, then I get contacted by his security:
OK. You were in the Air Force. You took an oath. And dadadada.... right?
For now we want you to reply to this e-mail that you will abide by the oath
you took then. You know, Top Secret oath, right?
K: OK.
B: So Im going, How can he do that? Right? Then Im sent a message
from Majestic-1 to William Hamilton saying, You have asked certain
questions about Dan and we have agreed (because they always have to
agree) to provide you an answer. And he starts going through a timeline,
right? Starting at Eisenhowers meeting with the aliens, right? 1958 first
treaty signed near Los Alamos. And coincidentally my friend Robert sends me
a photograph of a Majestic team, 1958, right outside of Los Alamos. So Im
going, Whoa, whats going on here? This is getting stronger and stronger,
right? I have published that full message...
K: Yes, and why do you think they are doing this?
B: I am being told that Dan was... you know, first they selected Bob Lazar
and they said, We wanted to see what he would do. But he became a
maverick, right? A little uncontrollable. They had better control of Dan. They
felt Dan was very bright because he almost has... well, he had an eidetic
memory. OK. And they just decided, for reasons that werent immediately
apparent to me at that time, a little bit more apparent to me now... because
it turns out that Dan was abducted when he was a child, that he should tell
the world, but he should tell the world in a positive voice... right?... what is
going on. And Majestic has, according to what Ive found out... again, Im
only reporting this. I have no way of verifying some of these things. But now
I do know who all the current numbers are. Right? They have met for the last
time last year [2005] in assembly and have agreed not to meet, convene,
again for two years. And when they convened they voted on giving Dan an
order to tell the world. And he has until the end of this year [2006] to

accomplish that mission because they expect more and more radical changes
which will become apparent to the public as we proceed to 2007, 2008,
toward this omega point of 2012
K: So...
B: which they expect us to survive.
K: So basically in a certain sense, you know, if Im following you, you were
denied access to joining MJ-12?
B: Yeah, it was like I came along a little too late to really contribute
anything. I mean, they agreed that I could start working with Dan if I wanted
to, if I took a project. He still wants me to work on some of the science with
him. Its just that I have been recruited to work on another project, for which
I have to sign a non-disclosure agreement, by another person who has kind
of.... taken and proven that we have been reverse engineering craft and
wants me to be involved in that. So, because I want to know whats going on
everywhere, what do I do? I volunteer for these things. So I have had a
foot... it feels like Ive had a foot almost in the door but not to the point of
where I wanted to be ... where I said, Hey, show me the money. Show me...
not the money .... show me the proof that youve got.
K: So... OK.... but Dan...
B: Im in a very...
K: Dan is alive, is alive and doing well at the moment. Is that correct?
B: Yes, I only saw him a few weeks ago.
K: OK. And you still visit him, is it in Vegas?
B: Ill see him tomorrow.
K: In... Here?
B: In Vegas. Thats all I can tell you about that.
K: No, I understand. You know....
B: Dan is sane.
K: OK, thats what I want to hear, is what your take is.

B: Rational.
K: OK.
B: OK? Deals with facts, as a scientist.
K: Now, I saw a portion of this interview you did with him but my
understanding is that the video interview is much longer. Are you releasing
that?
B: Im not releasing anything any more, because I dont have the rights.
K: Meaning...
B: As far as...
K: Majestic-12 has the rights? Dan has the rights?
B: No. Ron Garner. Hes here. If you want to interview him, hes here at this
conference.
K: Ron Garner.
B: Yep.
K: Was he involved in the shooting of it?
B: He went in there with money.
K: Did he shoot it? I mean, Im just trying to figure out how he has rights.
B: No. Well, he says that he has all the right connections to get Dans story
out, to television, you know, all over, and apparently he has offered Dan and
Marci enough evidence that he has these connections. But I dont like it. I
told Dan I will not work with Ron Garner. OK? You know, I published a book
on Dan. I said, Thats the end of the story. I told the story. I said right in
the introduction: I cannot prove this story to the public. But I know that I
have seen enough and experienced enough. Because I have been closer, I
believe, than any investigator to Dan, and there are things that, to me,
speak the truth. OK? I mean, Ive seen Dan use disinformation because he
was ordered to. He doesnt like to but he was ordered to for security reasons
and I know how they use him. Now the Intel guys that specialize in
disinformation? Sometimes they do it just for fun, get a kick out of spinning
us around. And thats what I believe theyve done with Project Serpo,
because its just so full of... errors. Ill put it that way, mildly.

Project Serpo
K: Well, OK. Well, thats interesting that you happen to think... And you
know, Im going to end this pretty soon here and youve been very gracious
and, and this is great. But I was just wondering, in terms of Project Serpo...
I know youve pointed out some very, you know, accurate errors, that have
been, you know, recognized, at least by Bill Ryan, and acknowledged. But do
you think theres any truth to the story?
B: I think we have an exchange program. See, Ive been hearing this story
on and off for a number of years and... I was supposed to meet a colonel
from Edwards Air Force Base... I used to hold meetings out in the Antelope
Valley and one of my people that came to the meetings met this colonel who
looked at my book, even read through it, and said, Hey this heres about 80
to 90 percent accurate. Then he started telling her, How would you like to
see some real documents on this? And she goes, I dont think so, not if
theyre classified. And he said, I want to show you all the different levels of
identification Ive got. Right? And then he started telling a story. He says,
Im going to tell you this story because, you know, nobodys going to believe
this anyway. And he said that he has been on another planet where he could
see two suns in the sky. And also he said, I had a brigadier general that was
a good friend of mine. He says, I was flying a jet out of Edwards and I
crash landed. And there were a lot of injuries. I didnt think I would survive
that. And they took me to the underground hospital at Edwards...
underground facility hospital ... and they used some of the alien technology
to put me back together.
K: Hm.
B: So, you know... stories like this guy saying that he had actually been to
another world, ah, was fascinating. And I had heard stories like that. Nothing
you could prove, right?
K: Sure.
B: But it seems like somebody gathered these together... changed the whole
character of the Ebens, right? And put together this story somewhat like the
Steven Spielberg Close Encounters where they had twelve people, I think
two of them women, ten men, that were supposed to go aboard this craft.
And I mean they just weaved it all together, but they didnt pay very much
attention to science.
K: Hmm.

B: So what they described is a planet around Zeta Reticuli with two stars that
are only about as distant from the planet as our own sun is. OK? Thats
impossible. A planet cannot... you know, which sun does the planet orbit?
And there is no such close, 180 million mile distance between two stars in
Zeta Reticuli. The two stars, Zeta Reticuli 1 and Zeta Reticuli 2 are over a
light year apart, about 9,000 astronomical units, compared to ONE
astronomical unit. OK? So thats one big error. And then they make the
planet almost the exact same diameter as the Earth and give it a different
gravitational constant, right? Then they say, ah, they didnt have any means
of tracking the time on the planet... on the planet Serpo? But they did have
this tower, which was something like a sundial, right? And they knew what
time it was. And I said, You cant have advanced technology, (you know, I
protested) ... without extremely precise clocks and timing mechanisms. You
cant even have a computer without that, much less a space craft that travels
light years. Oh, whos the idiot who asked this question? Right? I am. I
mean, I know technology, right?
New Interests / Is reality real?
K: So are you basically interested in writing any more books?
B: I have branched out a little further away from just... because I got
interested in certain subjects, as a consequence of some of this research,
that fascinate me about the universe, about reality... well... is reality real?
[laughs] Plus I have spent 22 days in an altered state of consciousness back
in 1977.
K: Twenty-two days?
B: Twenty-two days.
K: Meaning... what are you talking about, the Monroe Institute, or...?
B: [shakes head no] This happened to me spontaneously while I was trying
to concentrate my mind on the resolution of a particular problem. My mind
accelerated. I could do high speed mathematics. I could read Greek. I could
read Latin. I could read peoples minds. I could move objects, you know, this
kind of thing. I had people all around me, all my friends who used to gather
with me at the coffee shop, plying me with questions about everything. And
here I am with answers coming out of me like I was a cosmic computer, OK?
So, it was a life changing experience. It happened twice in my life. And
actually, there was a third incident in the 1980s. But now Im very, very
interested... like I wrote this book on time travel. Im interested in anomalies
in time, multidimensional universe and things like this.

Of course, Bill Ryan and I, we share, ah, a philosophy on this where we

believe that
this is... we
are spiritual
beings that
are immersed
and trapped in
our own
creation...
K & B:
[chuckle]
B: ... and that
this creation
has now
become
greater than
us, where in
truth we are greater than it. And thats what was revealed to me in 77. And
unfortunately something happened where I woke up, completely, on the job.
I was programming. And everybody in the office stopped working. They were
affected by it. So this is real. I mean, it happened, and...
K: Do you think its possible that... and we can go off camera if you want, let
me know... its possible that you were, you know, there was a walk-in during
those times?
B: I think ... No, I felt.... huh. Now were getting into things that we really
dont need to pass on to the public, because they'll just think it's weird.
K: OK. Well, we can turn this off. Id just be curious...

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