Bobby O & PSB

Alens Italo Disco Universe
[www.italo-disco.net]

presents:

Bobby O
&

Bobby Orlando - Pet Shop Boys

This is part of the book Introspective (7 chapters) by
Michael Cowton. It was published in 1991. Here are chapters which
are related to High Energy producer Bobby Orlando (Bobby O).
Addition is article from The Face magazine about Bobby O.

Contents

1. Can You Hear the Dawn Break? 1
2. A Lowe Profile 12
3. The Bobby O Story (3) 18
4. Carrot Cake and a Recording Deal (10) 25
5. Whats in a Name? (17) 32
6. The Million Dollar Man? (24) 39
7. Lets Make Lots of Money (32) 47
8. New Opportunities (36) 51
9. Rudest Men in Rock 55
10. Paninaro Poseurs 62
11. Theyve Got it Taped 68
12. The King and Us 72
13. The Springfield Connection 82
14. Actually... Its Brilliant 87
15. It Couldnt Happen Here 92
16. Season of Bad Will 105
17. Rumours and Liza Minnelli 117
18. A Life on the Open Road 125
19. The Piglets of the Eighties 147
20. Memories are Made of This (39) 154
21. Here We Go Round Again 159

Epilogue 163
Notes and Sources 175
Discography 188
Summary (43)

addition: Kimberly Leston Bobby Orlando - The story of O (44)
(article from The Face magazine)

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3. The Bobby O Story
[Contents]

I n 1983, Neil Tennant landed an assignment with Smash Hits
to travel to New York to review The Police live in concert and to
interview superstar Sting, who had also attended St Cuthberts
School. Hes three years older than me, so I cant really remember
him too well at school, although I have an old sports team photo
and there on the end, looking rather more fashion conscious than
the rest, is one Gordon Sunnier, before he became Sting, recalls
Neil. When I met him (in 1983), he had an old school friend with
him and the three of us were in the bar at Shea Stadium
reminiscing about school. If anything, he seemed to hate it even
more than I did.

As far as Neil, the journalist-cum-musician was concerned, the
trip to America provided a golden opportunity to create contacts.
He was well versed in the work of New York based, hi-NRG disco
producer Bobby Orlando, and he was one of Neils prime targets.

3

Bobby Orlando had by this time built up a very extensive
background in hi-NRG, dance oriented music. Well on his way as a
recognized producer, he had had a lot of disco type hits which had
done well in the American music industry magazine, Billboard, and
sold well through Europe; he had received three gold records by
the time the female impersonator Divine, was to use his production
expertise in 1980. Divine was already an accomplished artist and
had been in numerous cult movies. Running a small but successful
record company, Bobby saw the opportunity of working with Divine
as yet another opportunity to boost his growing reputation. Viewing
a partnership with Divine as a cute little gimmick, he agreed to take
on the artist, at the time thinking it was going to be like a disco
Amanda Lear, who was huge in Europe. The reaction from the
public was immediate and tremendous, with big hits following.
Despite this new found success, Bobbys relationship with Divine
was not as it might have been, with little warmth emanating
between the two, although it was to prove a useful working
relationship.

Mark Bauman, Divine and (young) Bobby O

Divines manager, Bernard J ay, was different again and he
and Bobby got on far better together. According to Bobby, the
success of Divines whole musical career can be attributed to J ay,
being Divines right hand man, best friend and manager. Says

4

Bobby, My own relationship with Bernard J ay had its stormy
moments over the years, but it was also very good, so because of
that relationship the Divine thing worked out well. Bobby was
responsible for producing all of Divines hits up until the time the
singer signed to Pete Waterman, of Stock Aitken & Waterman
fame, who subsequently has had monster hits with artists like
J ason Donovan and Kylie Minogue. Not long after signing, Divines
health began a downward spiral that ended with his death two
years ago. Bobby Orlandos company, Nunzio Brocheno
Productions, was also producing the Flirts, Lisa Lisa and the Cult
J am, and Full Force, as well as ancillary artists like Man to Man,
who became big cult disco artists in England. The companys off
shoot, Bobcat Records, was responsible for the release of a wealth
of material in the early Eighties. At the companys peak, hundreds
of records were released a year, selling 3000 to 4000 copies each,
mostly hi-NRG disco destined for the underground market.

The Flirts Man to Man

That was the style so loved by the Pet Shop Boys, and Neil in
particular. The music catered to a certain core audience, no matter
what the label put out. The company was the forerunner at the
time in this particular musical style and as a result had cornered the
market. As the market was later to change, so too Nunzio Brocheno
Productions and Bobcat Records moved into other areas. A child of
the mid to late Seventies, Bobby Orlando would be one of the
thousands of budding musicians who would practise playing guitar

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for hours on end in their bedrooms. Closet guitarists copying lick
after lick off the records of their heroes. If you were a guitar
player you had to play guitar and therefore you had to practise.
You had to be good. You had to really want it. You couldnt fake
it... there were no samplers in those days, says Bobby. Then
sampling came along. Although he feels that new computer
technology took away true musicality, Bobbys company saw the
potential immediately and was one of the first to introduce it to
vinyl. Now any kid from the ghetto or the suburbs can go out and
buy a sampler for five hundred dollars, a drum machine for three
hundred dollars and he can make great records, whereas in the
Seventies and early to mid-Eighties, if you wanted to make a record
you had to be somewhat musically adept. So anybody in the world,
your sister, my brother, could go and make a record today just by
sampling. Unlike the past, there are no special skills required to
make records any more, and this will ultimately hurt, not help, the
music industry. Im not putting down sampling, it has its place, but
what you see now is that people are not sampling, they are literally
lifting things - entire sections of records. Ive got kids who walk into
my office with records they have made at home that sound so good
Im amazed, but when we were making records before sampling, it
would take hours to get that drum sound. Nowadays you press the
button and youve got it. I really started losing interest at that
point, and consequently from a business point of view, thank God I
did, because everybody was losing their arse.

Nobody but the majors is making money in the record
business any more. Nowadays you have artists who sell ten million
records or they sell nothing. When we were coming up, I would say
to a group, Oh, this is great, youve sold 75,000 albums. That was
like a caught up now in this whole idea of stardom, or whatever
you want to call it. The kids coming up today, there is no reason for
them to learn how to play because they are not going to sit in their
room and play for hours until they learn how to play like we did.
They dont have the discipline. Theres no reason for them to sit in
a studio for hours on end trying to get a particular sound, when
they can just press a button. Im not saying there is anything wrong

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with that technology, it is just that everybodys record sounds like
the next guys record. Nothing sounds unique any more. Whats
worse is that nobody seems to care. One good thing about some
of these rap records that I am hearing now, though, is that while
they have the sampler, there is a lot of live bass in there again, like
the old J ames Brown, J oe Tex stuff, which I think is great. Its the
bass that makes the hit. Bobby Orlando, the man with his finger
on the pulse of everything that was hi-NRG disco, believes there is
nothing outstanding today, whereas there was during the disco era.
Donna Summers Love to Love You Baby, with its sequential
rhythms and hard, cold, Kraftwerk type mechanical playing style, in
itself so very Germanic, is a classic example of the type of song that
Bobby will wax lyrical about. Nowadays, every record you hear
sounds like that with sweetening on top of it, and as a result you
have the likes of J immy Somerville, Erasure and Depeche Mode all
sounding the same. Nowadays you have three or four different
styles of music and everything within those styles sounds the same.
Nothing is standing out any more, says Bobby.

Apart from the poseurs who stand on stage, press a
computer button and do little else, the only style where people do
still play is heavy metal, and you have to like heavy metal, which I
hate! Its cult music today. Heavy metal artists are incredibly
irresponsible with some of the things they do and say on their
records. Not that artists are supposed to be the caretakers of the
world, but at the same time anybody who listens to heavy metal is
probably going to be a young, rebellious kind of a kid, and heavy
metal artists should never forget this. I remember when I was a kid
and I would listen to Alice Cooper. If Alice Cooper said go hang
yourself I probably would have gone and hanged myself because
you become so intrigued with rock heroes. The pop artists arent
like that any more, which is probably why we have a sense of
frustration. They are no longer heroes of the youth, but traitors of
the youth. He perceives the idols of today, like New Kids on the
Block, as being like modern day Bay City Rollers. Even the latter, he
says, retained a certain charm. They actually played instruments,
whereas the former merely dance. A contemporary version of what

7

has always been around, but a little more syrupy. If you listen to
the Bay City Rollers albums now, its great pop music. At the time
you probably thought a lot differently. If there was a group who
was playing that kind of stuff today, we would consider them
geniuses. Maybe in ten years time we will listen to New Kids on the
Block and say, what creative stuff. Who the hell knows where it is
going to go? A musician first and foremost, Bobby cant
understand an artist not playing, like he cant understand a
producer who cant play. But at the end of the day you do what
sells. Thats the record business. Too many so-called producers
just sit around the studio reading the paper, drinking coffee and
yesing the artist to death, he notes.

Do you think these new generation of kids are going to buy
MC Hammer records in ten years? No. Maybe I would buy a J eff
Beck album for ever and ever because I just love the way he plays
because I play, and I understand how much practice it takes to
play the way Beck does. Kids today. What are they going to say? I
love the way he presses the sampler! Its going to get much
worse, too, before it gets better. You are going to see these guys
are going to go on stage with tapes only, which is fine if you are
going to a discotheque. Who cares? But when these guys are
playing Madison Square Garden with tapes, its crazy.

As a semi-professional musician, I distinctly remember the
emergence of samplers, and group vans - ours included - driving
around with Musicians Union stickers declaring Keep Music Live.
Many musicians, like Bobby O, were disturbed by what they
perceived as replacement musicians - drum machines for
drummers, high tech keyboards in place of rhythm and bass
guitarists. The general public is not concerned with machines
replacing instruments - they neither know nor care whether
samplers or studio musicians have been employed as part of
todays music genre. In fact, the huge advances in keyboard
technology have been beneficial to many musicians, like the Pet
Shop Boys, enhancing their music and taking them from their initial
limited scope to a full studio production. This technology allows

8

lyrical and musical talent to exist where shortcomings in playing an
actual instrument would normally have prevented it. Groups like the
German based Tangerine Dream are past masters at breaking new
frontiers in digital techniques. They have helped lead the way for
the Pet Shop Boys and MC Hammers of this world to bring studio
sounds to the general public. It has been argued that such studio
based mastery takes away from the live element by being too
clinical, too perfectionist in its notation. Musicians make mistakes;
machines dont. Punch in the notes and you get a perfect refrain,
but crowds like to see the slick mastery of their guitar, bass and
drum heroes.

For outfits like Soft Cell, the Pet Shop Boys, and MC Hammer,
this was never the issue. Digital advancement helped to bring
otherwise closet bound, frustrated talents into the open. They
werent deliberately out to replace those who had mastered their
chosen instruments; they were merely capitalizing on progress. And
no one can really blame - or criticize - them for that.

Pet Shop Boys

9

4. Carrot Cake and a Recording Deal
[Contents]

Neil Tennant had been a big fan of Bobby Os hi-NRG disco
records and, alongside Chris, had accumulated a large collection of
the many records he had produced. While at Smash Hits, Neil
would claim back on his expenses the money he paid out for
imports, which at that time cost around 5 each. Mind you, it was
hard to keep up with the prolific release schedule of Bobcat
Records. When he travelled to New York on his Sting assignment,
by chance - or as fate would have it - Bobby Os office was at 1776
Broadway, the same office as a company called FBI Booking
Agency, which happened to be the agency of the Police. Neil came
to interview Sting in the building on 19 August 1983 - two years to
the day since the duo had their first meeting in the Kings Road -
and while there asked for an interview with his producer hero.

I thought, well if Ive got to go and see the Police play, Im
also going to have lunch with Bobby O, said Neil. Neil described
himself as a writer for a British pop magazine, and he and Orlando
hit it off immediately. At the Applejack Diner - a hamburger joint on
Broadway which was to become one of their favourite hangouts -
over a cheeseburger and carrot cake, which Bobby O paid for,
musical ideologies passed back and forth, and Bobby recalls: I saw
him, I liked him, we spoke.

It was towards the end of their conversation, and almost as
an afterthought, that Neil mentioned that he also wrote songs.
Bobby does not recall hearing any of Neils tapes at this juncture,
but as far as he was concerned it didnt matter. The accent and the

10

fact that Neil looked right was enough to sway the balance in his
favour. I said: You have a British accent, thats good enough. Ill
sign you. Well make a record, recalls Bobby. Despite the fact that
Bobby had heard none of Neils material, he said it did not matter.
I told him to go and get his partner; I would fly them to New York
and we would cut a record. Neil was obviously thrilled. Meeting
Bobby O was an even bigger thrill than meeting Sting, admitted
Neil later. I have admired his production techniques - with people
like the transvestite singer Divine, as well as on his own records -
for a long time.

Upon Neils return to London, the Smash Hits team were
delighted at his good fortune. Bobby O followed up their meeting
with a telex to confirm that the flights to New York would be
arranged, which they subsequently were, and a couple of weeks
later Neil returned to New York with Chris Lowe in tow. Sessions
were held at Unique Studios, Sugar Hill (the Sugar Hill Gang studio
in New J ersey), and at Bobbys own place, to make the perfect
Bobby O New York disco record. They recorded West End Girls,
Opportunities (Lets Make Lots of Money) and One More
Chance. Ironically, the first two songs recorded were the same
ones released by EMI after the Boys break with Bobby O.

It was, in fact, Bobby who played most of the instruments live
in the studio. Chris was not really a very good keyboard player,
says Bobby. An accomplished musician himself, Bobby wanted to
lay out the material quickly, so he took the reins. I played
everything on West End Girls, including the jazz riffs at the end.
Chris played one chord and the bass line. The choir sound we
resampled off other records we had done. The B-side of the single
was One More Chance. Says Neil, We learned a lot. Bobby
works fantastically quickly - within an hour and a half we had
recorded the basic tracks for three songs. He (Bobby O) has a very
low boredom threshold, so he works fast to keep the excitement
going. It was immediately apparent that the trio hit it off well, and
soon became close friends. The Boys stayed for about a week at an
apartment Bobby was keeping at 56th Street, while he himself

11

stayed up in Westchester County. What really compelled me to
record them, believe it or not, was this certain gut feeling I had,
says Bobby. Neil had that look of enthusiasm in his face, and
enthusiasm is everything. If you have that, you are going to win. I
knew he was hungry and wanted to have a record, and thats more
important than talent. And as it turned out they were talented too,
which just made it that much nicer.

A lot of the stuff you listen to of the Pet Shop Boys, and
material by other artists that our company was putting out at that
time, is the same sound. But the Bobcat Records sound of that
period was very definable, very electronic, very high-tech, melodic
and European. By the time Bobby met Neil, he already had ten
gold records, all from Europe, so the company was well and truly
established in that musical vein. Of his first impressions of Neil,
Bobby recalls, somewhat tongue-in-cheek. I liked him instantly.
Whats not to like? The guy is coming in telling me that he has
bought every record I ever made. I said, Gee, I must have made
about one hundred bucks off you in royalties already. He was
pleasant, excited, nervous, all the things that make a person nice.
You almost feel humbled by such people.

Bobby O

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When I met Chris, he came in and was like this kind of goofy
kid who walked through the door. In America we have a cartoon
called Mr Peabody and Sherman, it was a very big cartoon when
I was a kid growing up. Mr Peabody was this little dog and
Sherman a little boy; Peabody was Shermans dog, but Peabody
was the boss, Sherman was the sidekick. Peabody used to have
glasses and he was this little character - brilliant, intelligent, an
intellect. Sherman was this goofy little kid who hung around the
dog. It would always turn out at the end of the cartoon that
Sherman, although he appeared to be goofy, was always the wise
kid, and Peabody would always, ultimately be rescued by Sherman.
Mr Peabody and Sherman looked and acted exactly like the Pet
Shop Boys! Mr Peabody was Neil, Sherman was Chris. It was like
the joke of the office, Heres Mr Peabody and Sherman.

There was no contract on the Boys first trip to New York, all
having been done in good faith. Instead, an agreement was
prepared for their second visit. Basically, Bobby said he would
record them and see how it turned out. It was very loose. Although
it was done so quickly, everything fell into place as it went along.
With the recording out of the way, presentation was next on the
list. How was Bobby going to sell the two Englishmen to the
American market? Bobby did not perceive it as a problem. I
thought they looked great, he says. They were telling me that they
wanted to have a Duran Duran look. I disagreed.

I said, This whole pretty boy glamour thing is nice; it works,
but in your case I think, instead of trying to buck it, I think you
should look staid, you should look like guilty Catholics. That would
be the perfect look. Look intellectual, and look guilty. The world will
relate, because the world is guilty. Leave your glasses on. The
cuteness will come through if it is packaged right. The last thing it
should look like is an attempt to look like pretty boys. It just wasnt
going to happen. It was better for it to look like what it was so that
they would almost be more respected as higher thinkers. Neil gave
Bobby the impression of being intellectual, but at the same time
very hip - that he knew what was happening. At that time, of

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course, Bobby was very fashion conscious, very clean cut. I never
looked at them in the sense other than that I felt that they had a
particular look that would benefit them if they adhered to that look.
I advised them continually to always be as radical as they could be
in whatever they say publicly, always put the big guys down. This
proved somewhat ironic; despite the Boys proclamations about not
wanting to be on a major label, ultimately they sought one. Every
artist must dream of being on a major label at some point. Any
childhood fantasy you have of being the young upstart at an
independent label quickly goes away when you finally get some
success. Having said that, Bobby O was thrilled with the way the
production of West End Girls turned out. The idea was for it to be a
rap record done in a British accent.

The gimmicky Britishness was something that Bobby could
play on. Before releasing and promoting the single on his own
label, Bobby played it around for some of the majors. Every one
turned it down, including EMI America who turned it down cold,
saying that Neil sounded like Al Stewart. At this point, Bobby had
become extremely fanatical about breaking the Pet Shop Boys. The
more people turned the single down, the more he was convinced it
was going to be huge. If the majors hated it, then it had to be
good, he noted. Although being basically disco, Bobby did not
want to promote it as such, but as underground New Wave, as
new music, which at the time meant nothing. As part of the
promotion campaign, the company ran a free colour television
giveaway. The question was, could anyone guess the name of the

14

singer of the Pet Shop Boys? Sure enough, somebody in California
won a free colour television. The record was released in April 1984
on Bobcat, who also licensed it to Epic Records in the UK in a one
off deal. Bobby had been dealing through Gordon Charlton and his
secretary Lorraine Trent at the company, both strong supporters of
the Boys. Out eight weeks in America, it was doing well, picking up
a nice buzz, particularly in the clubs in Los Angeles and San
Francisco, when suddenly the whole campaign exploded. Bobby
had gone overboard on promotion and it worked far better than
expected. The record began to catch on and orders started pouring
into Bobcat Records. Interviews with Neil and Chris were being
demanded by punk type magazines - and the big break was just
around the corner.

West End Girls, after receiving plenty of air and club play,
was getting itself an underground core audience. WLIR, a new
music station in New York at the time, since renamed WDRE,
played it continuously. The record grew big the old-fashioned way,
starting with a small audience and building up a large one. It was
brewing all the time. And it was decision time for Neil and Chris.
Their careers were on the line. Neil, though, had some qualms: It
was a risk leaving a successful magazine for music, but it was
something I always wanted to do. Neil would lie awake at night
thinking he must be mad leaving his secure job for something as
fickle as being a pop star. Deep down he knew he was doing the
right thing, and later admitted: I dont miss it. I liked meeting
people but I didnt enjoy the writing. The only thing I miss is the
free records. I used to get thousands of review copies. Nearing the
end of his five year architecture course, with his finals around the
corner, Chris was anxious as he considered his future, My mum
always told me I had to finish my exams, but if the songs a hit, I
dont know if Ill make use of my training. The London based
paper, the Evening Standard, reported on 4th April 1984: A new
duo, who go under the particularly silly name of the Pet Shop Boys,
are waiting with baited breath to find out if their debut single is a
success. The single went on to sell exceptionally well in France and
Belgium: it had a far greater impact on the radio listeners of

15

Americas West Coast, but failed to move the British chart buying
public. Despite this obvious disappointment on home territory, it
was enough to move the Boys to push ahead with another single.
High on their American success, Neil and Chris returned to New
York to record more material; in fact, enough for three albums.
According to Bobby, the material got better and better. Bobby
would start playing, and Neil would begin to sing. Chris would join
in, and the atmosphere created was reminiscent of a garage band.
It all simply came together. Neil says that at the time, despite their
good fortune, they were quite happy to become a popular
underground dance duo. Television, promotions and the package
were not in sight or in mind, despite their first ever stage
appearance at the Fridge in Brixton, London, in October 1984,
when they sang and played over tapes. Making a record with Bobby
O was their one and only goal. They wanted to be part of the
Bobby O story.

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5. Whats in a Name
[Contents]

There has been much talk over the years of where the name
for the duo originated - and its gay connotations. According to the
Boys, the name cropped up just prior to them recording with Bobby
O. Chris had a flat in Ealing at the time, and he was acquainted
with three boys who worked in a pet shop. The trio were already in
a group, but it was nameless. Neil and Chris suggested they call
themselves the Pet Shop Boys... We thought it sounded like an
English rap group. The Boys then ruminated over their own name,
throwing ideas back and forth both in Britain and America, and
finally latching on to their original idea for their friends. They have
admitted since that they have been embarrassed by it, thinking it
sounded silly and even camp.

But there were other problems, eagerly picked up on by the
media. It was rumoured that Pet Shop Boys were gay American
men who put hamsters (or gerbils) up their bottoms - for pleasure.
Neil and Chris were obviously horrified when this was revealed to
them after the release of West End Girls. They even considered
changing their name, but decided against it. Bobby Orlando does
not personally recall the Boys having chosen a name for themselves
by the time they first arrived in New York. He says: I had an artist
called the Beat Box Boys, with a song called Einstein, an
underground number which sold around 100,000 copies. The Boys
and I were talking about a potential name. I said whatever it is,
lets use a name like Beat Box Boys. I said, Why dont you call
yourselves the Altar Boys?, because I was focussing in on this
staid Catholic image. They didnt like that and in retrospect I dont

17

blame them. We were throwing names back and forth and the
name Pet Shop Boys came up. [This was a name Neil and Chris had
previously decided on. The rough mixes of the first days recording
carry the label Pet Shop Boys.] It didnt have any particular
meaning. They certainly never told me that it was something based
upon a friend who had a pet shop. Chris had said something once
that there was some kind of meaning to the name Pet Shop Boys.
Some kind of a culture, but I said it sounded fine to me. The name
came around on the day we signed the contract. I said I could
always change it later if they changed their minds. There had been
numerous phone conversations with Neil after the first batch of
sessions where we were throwing names around like crazy.

Bobby said he had also heard the rumour about the gay
subculture activities in New York, but no one had ever
substantiated it, and the Boys behaviour refuted it. On the Boys
second trip back to New York, they travelled with Kimberley Leston
from Smash Hits, who later moved to The Face magazine, and
they stayed in a wonderful rented townhouse on the west side of
New York. Smash Hits was setting up a magazine in the States
called Star Hits, and Neil and Kimberley travelled to New York to
ensure that the operation got rolling. Bobby, Neil and Chris would
often eat out at different restaurants and, at that time, as Bobby is
the first to admit, he could not resist a pretty face. On one occasion
a gorgeous girl walked into a diner and Bobby said to her: Do you
know who these guys are? He then pointed to Neil and said he
was the lead singer with Duran Duran. The girl freaked out, saying
she had all their records, and the Boys played it up to perfection.
Although they would get a kick out of Bobbys spontaneity and play
acting, he found them particularly shy people, and certainly not as
outgoing in the company of strangers.

They usually ate in the Applejack Diner, where Bobby knew
the Greek owners well. Even before the Boys had a record out
Bobby would insist that Neil and Chris should eat free there
because they were the biggest group in England. The Greek owners
of Cafe 57, an upmarket restaurant, would fall for the same Bobby

18

patter, rolling out the red carpet whenever the Boys were in town.
Neil and Chris were as clean as whistles. They would stay at the
apartment and they were spotlessly clean. They were not like
typical rock star animals in any way. There were a lot of big artists
at that time that wanted me to produce them, and I turned every
one down, mainly because I didnt think I could make enough
money doing it. I thought: if I produce a group on my own label, I
make a dollar; if I produce a group for another label, I make twenty
cents. I burn out a piece of my talent and my own artists can say,
Why didnt you produce that for me? So I always shied away from
that, and I think Neil got a kick out of it because he used to think it
was being kind of arrogant, which he liked.

I think that leads into the way they are today - when you say
aloof. As well they should be. I think it is funny when artists take
themselves seriously. When they talk about their lyrics as if they
were the Bible. What is it? Its not some great song. Its got a
catchy melody, youre going to make a few bucks and youre going
to go home. Whats the big deal? But some people take their work
so seriously. Thats another thing I liked about the Pet Shop Boys
and one of the reasons why I liked working with them - they knew
all along that really its all bullshit. Its just a question of, Were
going to have some fun, well make some money, and the more
you can soak out of it, great. There was a certain charm to that. I
think that theyre right. Its almost the Malcolm MacLaren (who
managed the Sex Pistols) thing. Grab the money and run. With
some people I find that to be an exciting concept because it is
bullshit anarchy; it doesnt mean anything. Its not like
overthrowing the country or anything. It caters to a certain ilk of
society. Its a revolutionary think.

A phoney banana republic plans were drawn up for the
release of the duos first album when Bobby heard through the
grapevine that the Boys wanted to switch to a major label. Bobby
had been busily negotiating with CBS Records for the debut album.
They said all the songs were weird. They wanted me to give them
the real disco cha-cha record that I had become pseudo-famous

19

for, says Bobby. I said I thought they were wrong. At the same
time the guys from Dead or Alive wanted me to produce them and
Id said no, for two reasons. One was because I was working with
Neil and Chris, and I didnt want there to be any kind of conflict -
because Dead or Alive was on CBS, and I didnt want a situation
where I would drop one for the other, so I really protected my
relationship with Neil and Chris by doing that. Also, I felt that the
kid who was singing with Dead or Alive was in the vein of Divine, so
I said forget it. As it turned out, Pete Waterman produced the
single instead of me. Ironically, at that very same time Divine left
Bobcat and went to work for Waterman also.

Dead Or Alive

Having tasted success with West End Girls, the Boys were
obviously thinking big. They wanted to join the pop jamboree.
Something was afoot, of that Bobby had no doubt, but there was
no hint of their inner feelings the last time he saw them; he was
busy planning their next moves. The Boys had been happy to be
guided by his knowledge, by his professionalism, even to the extent

20

that they allowed him to choose their first single. The Boys had
wanted to release Opportunities first, but Bobby did not think it
as good a record as West End Girls. Ironically, when the Boys
later signed with Parlophone Records - a subsidiary of the giant EMI
Records - in England, they contacted Bobby and told him that
Opportunities was being released as their first single. He told
them it was a mistake. He said they should re-release West End
Girls, as there was a whole bubble that had been created, which
was still there to be taken advantage of. The Boys thought Bobby
was wrong, and Opportunities was released. It bombed. West
End Girls followed, and it was a smash hit.

Opportunities was borne of an original idea by Chris, who
also came up with the title. Neil apparently wrote the words in
about fifteen minutes. The song is anti-rock and anti-the-industry
and its people. Although it sets out to destroy the credibility of the
rock-pop music world, it was done as pure satire - a wind up that
was based on no one in particular, certainly not the Boys
themselves. As far as Bobby was aware, whilst on promotional
tours of clubs and television stations through Europe, Neil and Chris
had commented to various licensees that they would not be
working with Bobby O any longer. The recipients of this news were
clearly puzzled, as they had received no directive from New York to
this effect. Bobby received a phone call from his licensee in
Belgium, who had been awaiting the arrival of a batch of the Pet
Shop Boys debut album. Fobbing the rumour off with the reply that
the Boys were no doubt just tired, Bobby immediately knew that
there was going to be trouble. But he kept his cool and dealt with it
in a professional manner. When he eventually spoke with Neil, the
latter reluctantly agreed that it was true, that they had a
commitment from EMI.

Bobby recalls, They came to me and basically they wanted to
go with EMI, so I said we had two problems. One, I did not want to
go with EMI, and two, I wanted to keep them on my own label.
This was a golden opportunity for Bobby to build on the
foundations of Bobcat. That is why he had taken all the chances.

21

Neil then mentioned the name of Tom Watkins, a manager in
England. Tom Watkins, like Chris Lowe, had designs on becoming
an architect. Not having the necessary qualifications, he moved into
interior design, before his thoughts turned to music. His earliest
encounters were with the university circuit, where he organized
package deals which included DJ s and groups. It was during this
time that he first came across Neil Tennant, who was engaged with
Marvel Comics. Watkins had an idea to promote one of his bands,
called Giggles, by using comic book imagery, and contacted the
Marvel offices, where he negotiated with Neil.

The latter watched Giggles - who later worked with Sheena
Easton - perform on several occasions, but at that time he was
more into punk than pop music. With several friends, Watkins
formed XL Design, a company involved in record sleeve design and
concert posters. XL Design did work for various major artists, and
was to design the sleeve for the Pet Shop Boys Epic Records single,
West End Girls. Watkins had also switched his interests to
management, forming an off shoot of XL Design called Massive
Management. After hearing a demo tape of the Boys songs, which
included Its a Sin, Opportunities and West End Girls, he
agreed to take them on to his books. It was not a smooth
beginning. From the outset it was obvious that Neil and Chris were
their own men. They knew precisely what they wanted from the
deal, and arguments occurred over the contract with Massive.
Twelve months later the contract was renegotiated after XL Design
went bankrupt and Watkins bought out the management company.
There were also ongoing rows over the Boys image. Watkins had
firm ideas about glamour. The Boys had firmer ideas about
maintaining their bored personas. They won. If they had
capitulated, we may well have had two Bros look-alikes on our
screens. It became apparent that they just did not want to be on
our label any more, says Bobby. I was very disappointed,
obviously, but I felt the better part of valour is to just do what is
appropriate and do what is best for myself and the company as
well. They wound up on EMI, which is tremendously ironic because
EMI had turned the artists down a year earlier. Bobby then fought

22

hard with EMI. I thought they were just a big company; they
reminded me of a guy who had turned a girl down earlier, then
when the girl has an affair with another guy, suddenly the first guy
wants to have the girl back. Following the success of West End
Girls on Bobcat Records, Arista and Geffen Records had also
shown interest in the Pet Shop Boys, Geffen also having previously
turned them down. Someone had been talking to EMI - whether it
was the Boys or Tom Watkins, I dont know - because all of a
sudden, why were they interested, just by hearing the record?
Apparently CBS only developed an interest in the song after
discovering at a business lunch that somebody from EMI wanted it.

Pet Shop Boys

23

6. The Million Dollar Man?
[Contents]

Neil Tennant later commented that he felt the Pet Shop Boys
needed a manager because it had grown obvious that, despite how
much they wanted to keep hold of the reins, they could not possibly
do everything themselves. They needed to bring in a manager to
sort out a major record deal on their behalf. He had presumed that
Tom Watkins would deal directly with Bobby O on this issue, but
Watkins obviously had other ideas up his sleeve. Apparently, too
many rights were already tied up across in New York.

Bobby O had certainly got the rough end of the wedge.
Having successfully launched the Boys with their first single, he was
already well on the way to negotiating a deal with a major label
when the Boys broke the news that they were signing with EMI. As
a result, an arrangement was worked out between EMI and
Orlando which did not prevent the Pet Shop Boys from recording.
He says there was no problem with the Boys at that time. They
remained on friendly terms. I knew that they would wind up using
all the stuff that I had recorded anyway. They had to because it
was great stuff. Their first three hits were all songs that Bobby O
had recorded.

As far as Bobby was concerned, from a business point of view
he was still involved with Neil and Chris, and began corresponding
with EMI to this effect. Moreover, he was really concerned about
them. He honestly wanted them to have that success. In a sense
he stands by that today. He says, I told the magazine Billboard in
an interview at the time that if the Pet Shop Boys go along the path
that I advise them to go on, they would be as big as the Beatles.

24

Which was, of course, an overstatement, but I was trying to say
that they would be huge. I never lost interest in them. At the time
that I started working with them I had lost interest in my other
projects. I was a successful businessman and I really felt this
incredible creative impulse, something that I was longing to
recapture in a sense by working with them, because it was not the
traditional cha-cha disco stuff that I had been doing.

I felt like I was working with real people as opposed to these
fictitious names and characters that we would continue to make up.
What had happened, however, was that because they lived in
England and I lived in New York, during the times that they were
not in New York, our only mode of conversation was by telephone.
So there were times when they would call the office and I was out
of town, so when I came back I would call them, but that was
maybe ten days later, so maybe they would take that to mean that
I had lost interest in them. Neil and Chris stated that they had
grown frustrated and felt that they had themselves an unworkable
relationship with Bobby O. Neil claimed that when they first started
recording, it was in a 24-track studio, but later this switched to an
8-track in his office, and they felt they were regressing. Bobby O,
he claimed, was not only eccentric but was also saving money, and
they began to doubt whether he still had any faith in them. Says
Bobby, I dont see how Neil could have made that comment, only
because when we were together we spent literally twenty-four
hours a day together. We would eat breakfast, lunch and dinner
together, we would hang out together, we would go walking down
Broadway and shopping together. We talked about life, women,
politics. You name it, we talked about it. These activities are all-
important in production, even though it does not involve recording.
It is assimilating the personalities.

Prior to the split, Bobby had got into a phase where he had
become obsessed with the idea of minimalism. At this point
sampling was becoming commonplace and I said, Why not do
something that is raw, at its roots? In fact, there was one track I
had done with them that was like David Edmunds crawling from the

25

wreckage kind of a thing, but they hated guitars. I said to them
that instead of doing these 24-track songs, everything separated on
each track, lets try to create a new thing of using minimalism. I
wanted to record directly into 2-track, everything live. What are
they doing today? Everybody is recording directly off the computer
into the Dat machine. So we were recording certain tracks on the 8-
track setup that we had in our office; but this was not a track
recording like making a demo at home, this was a professional
studio environment with the latest technology. Some of the
greatest things we did were as a result of that. I really wanted to
get to this thing where it was drums, bass, keyboard, voice, thats
it. Almost like House music is today: minimal. I wanted to try a new
approach. From Neils point of view, maybe he viewed it that way,
but I spent a lot of money. Remember, Im an independent
businessman; Im not CBS and we had spent what I consider to be
a decent amount of money. People dont spend money, let alone
their time, if they dont believe in something.

Neil told journalist Chris Heath, author of Pet Shop Boys,
Literally, that everyone thought they should give up Bobby O. Neil
claimed that they did not receive money from him, or for the
original version of West End Girls. Bobby Os settlement included
all the royalties from the Bobcat version of West End Girls, plus
those of One More Chance and Pet Shop Boys, the two other
tracks he owns. Bobby also negotiated an override royalty on each
of the Boys first three albums, with a ceiling of one million dollars.
He had in fact earned this sum by midway through the life of
Actually, paid to him by EMI.

Bobby was also involved in the writing of the two songs, One
More Chance and Two Divided by Zero, for which he is credited
as co-author and earns fifty per cent of the writing royalties. Neil
does admit that the producer warranted the money, as he had
taken a chance with the Boys, where others may have decided
otherwise. When I mentioned the figure of a million dollars, Bobby
O commented: I was a successful businessman long before I met
Neil and Chris. Neil said he never thought he would be successful,

26

and for this reason they agreed to the terms of the deal, never
actually believing it would pay off. But I always believed they would
be successful and I always expected to receive what we had agreed
to. I guess I believed in their success more than they did. There
was this period of time where Neil obviously got into this thing
where he felt angered, or frustrated.

After they left us, in some of the early interviews they really
praised me in all respects. If they were going to pay me off it would
have been a lot more than a million bucks! Following the split, the
trio remained on good terms. Every time the Boys were in New
York, they would see Bobby at his office, take in lunch, talk, and
meet some of the new artists on his books. Acrimony did come
later, around 1987 or 1988, although Bobby says he does not know
the reason. I understand the acrimony during this time was created
because of the Boys claim that they had not - and to this day still
have not - received all master tapes that were due to them under
the settlements previously made with Bobby O. He says he never
harboured any bad vibes about them. He actually received one call
from Neil around 1986, but he says it was not the same Neil hed
once known. He was very cold. Bobby told him he sounded
different.

27

I had been incredibly successful as a businessman and as a
producer before meeting them. I had remained so at that point,
and it was only in 1987 and 1988 when I decided Id just had
enough for the time being; I wanted to get a breather. And it did
get bad at some point. Frankly, I never really figured out why.

The last time I spoke to them was when their new album
Introspective came out and Id basically told them during that
conversation that I didnt like the album, that I thought it didnt live
up to their true talents. I thought they were taking the wrong
direction. They said they would have thought I would like the new
album. I said, I like what you guys are doing but I think the guys
who produce you do mediocre work. They have not been properly
produced since the last good production someone did with them,
which was Love Comes Quickly. Everything after that has been
garbage. You Are Always on My Mind was also a good
production. Outside of that it sounds so rinky-dinky. They should
produce themselves. I could almost understand why they chose to
produce Liza Minnelli, because she has this Bette Midler attraction
about her. I could see them producing Cher, for instance. There
just seems to be something particular about these diva-type ladies.
I think that at some point they got frustrated, or maybe they just
started getting too rich... When I let them go to EMI I really sensed
that they wanted to go. I dont think you can really legislate
peoples behaviour. If you are with a woman, and she wants to go,
you can kick and scream as much as you want to, but she is going
to go anyway. So, at that point, I thought, I like them, let them go.
They are going to be huge and they will remember me and then it
will work out fine.

If you read some of the articles when they first went to EMI
after West End Girls was a hit, there was nothing but praise for
Bobby O. Then I read a few articles many years after that where
its like they never said those things. One of the reasons why, in
1987, I decided that I was going to start phasing out of the music
business a little bit and take some time to do these other
endeavours was because I really became incredibly disturbed over

28

the ingratitude of many of our artists and people that we worked
with. I still have this link to my creative past, that you tend to
thrive on the gratitude and appreciation of those you work with. I
think everyone needs to feel appreciated. So even if you want to
use the argument Who cares what they say as long as you get
paid? thats true to an extent, but to another extent its like, Why
shouldnt I just do it for myself? Why should I let them be a part of
it?

So there comes a time when appreciation is really important.
And I certainly have never got that, I dont think, from any artist
that I have ever worked with. And I dont think it is just me. At the
end of the day, the artists all believe, once they become successful,
that somehow they can do it themselves, and its, What did you
really do for me? Out of all the artists I have worked with, only
one has been with me for twelve years, and thats Screaming Tony
Baxter. We had one hit, Get up off that Thing in England, which
went to Number 14 in 1984. The hardest part of breaking a record
is not having the hit, its having that ground-swell, that grass-roots
backing. What we did for the Pet Shop Boys was we rallied that
grass-roots network but we never invaded, said Bobby Orlando.

I really could have been a total arsehole about it but I
wasnt. I thought: better off, I have got the thing going. Even if I
am not going to be EMI, if we let this thing delay too long, people
will forget about it. Its there, it has happened already. Bobby
admits that he tends to get a bit radical sometimes, and felt
particularly disturbed by some of the people that were working with
Neil and Chris. He thought the Boys were poorly advised, advised in
a way that was not true to what the existing situation was.
Whatever frustration they were feeling, whoever was advising them
at the time, had portrayed his company as just a bunch of little
guys. He says there was a good propaganda campaign levelled
against the company. We were not a small company in the respect
that we could not afford to record the artist. We were a sizeable
small company, so it wasnt as if we had to worry about having our
phone turned off the next month. I think that that also added to

29

the paranoia that the two guysd had. When the whole charade
was over, Bobby thought to himself that even when you do it right,
and have played by all the rules, moral and otherwise, people
break. He could not have done more for any artist than he did for
the Pet Shop Boys; he could not have put more of himself into it.
To him, none of it made sense; yet, at the same time he looked at
his business. He was comfortable and happy, he was moving into
other areas, so now was the time to make a big plus, as music had
been changing at that time, too. He had wanted to remain friends
with the Boys, to see their success through. He had enjoyed
dealing with Neil, who to him had always been the duos
spokesperson, although, as Bobby says, Chris was no shy little
goofball. Thats a smart kid.

Chris appears to be the kind of guy that nothing bothers him
- everything is wonderful. Its a great thing to have. Hes the kind
of guy, I suspect, that if everything went wrong for them, would
say, What the hell, whereas Neil would be the kind of guy who
would probably dwell upon it forever and build it up out of
proportion in his mind. Thats not to say that Neil was not
intelligent - he is, and is also a serious kid, although he has got a
good sense of humour. Bobby never saw Neil as being
manipulative. If he was, he says, he was very good at it. He always
saw him as being someone trying to create an incredible fasade.

It takes a long time to get through to him. When you do, he
is really a very sensitive, decent guy. He assimilates, which is a very
good quality to have. The reason the three met in the first place
was because Bobby O had swayed them musically and he says:
One of the only things I missed in not working with Neil and Chris
after we had split up wasnt working with them, it was just being
with them, because we did have a lot of fun together. Every topic
of life you could think about we had talked about and we had
different opinions in many of those instances. I think their whole
Bobcat Records experience influenced them greatly. I think we took
their virginity from them. When you make love to a girl for the first
time, and she has never been made love to before, you have got

30

her heart forever. Whether she hates you or not, she will always
love you. She will remember you forever. But then you grow up. It
doesnt mean you want to marry them. It just means you will
remember them. They will never forget me, nor I them; thats for
sure! It was a good relationship.

Pet Shop Boys

31

7. Lets Make Lots of Money
[Contents]

Chris was the classic vinyl junkie, according to Bobby
Orlando, whose company charged over the odds for records. The
underground disco 12-inch units would cost around eight dollars
each. We never even gave you a long version. -Three minutes,
theyll buy it- was the company motto, he says. One of the reasons
that the company was so successful was because it was the only
game in town. When all the majors rediscovered dance music, they
began to reintroduce 12-inch singles, by which time Bobcat had a
strong hold in the market place. Ironically, the company never had
the same success in the States as it had achieved in Europe. It was
always only the underground market on home territory. There was
always something about us in America, where the public at large,
whether as a result of our music, distribution, or it was just a vibe
about what we did, we were never able to break here the way we
did in Europe, says Bobby.

Similarly, the Pet Shop Boys are big in America, they sell a lot
of records, but they are not popular to the extent they are in
Europe, where they are much more known as figures, as
individuals, as artists, as stars. In America I dont think people
know who they are other than they know the name and they know
the songs. Generally its because an American audience is not as
sophisticated as a European one. An American audience tends to go
for what is obvious, like Michael J ackson, who gets up there and
dances around. Hes not a subliminal star; the Europeans are often
attracted to such stars. Marc Bolan of T. Rex was huge in Europe.
In America he wasnt an obvious star like Paula Abdul who dances
around and does soft drink commercials. American stardom is

32

almost like the kind of thing that might be uncool in parts of
Europe. Bobby is talking here about traditional European pop
stars. And from an American perspective, the Pet Shop Boys are not
obvious enough. Americans seem to prefer artists who are more
overt, or even radical, not politically or musically, but just in their
performance, their voice, their mannerisms. Former bands like the
Bay City Rollers are a classic example of the European way, as,
oddly enough, were Sparks. There are three thousand miles of
America between New York and California, and in that three
thousand miles there are a lot of cows, sheep and farmers, and to
them Lynyrd Skynyrd is what it is all about, says Bobby. They
dont want to know about prissy boys from England.

America is not the fashion capital of the world like New York
is. You go fifty miles outside of New York and you are in a different
world. People tend to think of America as being this ultra-hip place,
its not. America is stodgy, mostly unhip and filled with farmers. I
know Neil and Chris viewed America as this tremendous place, once
they became familiar with the country as opposed to New York. I
remember Chris saying in 1988 he was looking to move to Los
Angeles, California, which is kind of New York-ish - its hip, its
modern. But you never hear anyone say, I want to move to
Arkansas! Neil had talked of moving to New York at one point.
When I first met them, they had no intention of taking the piss out
of the music industry. During the course of our working together I
always encouraged them to believe that that was exactly what they
should do. And I based that on my own knowledge that the music
industry doesnt want you. They have rejected you.

If people reject you, do you want to kiss their arse or do you
want to piss on them? The lengths the Boys go towards being
political remain on a personal level: while they are, their songs are
not. Whats political about Opportunities (Lets Make Lots of
Money)? I think its more about the question of wanting to make
as much money as possible, like anybody else. Its pretty
straightforward. Its a business proposition. As a producer I would
be involved with anybody with whom I felt I could make money,

33

and do something that would be creative. If I did do it again with
the Pet Shop Boys, it would have to be under the same terms and
conditions as I did it before, which would basically be that I would
have to have total control of what took place in the studio, and I
certainly wouldnt be making the kind of records they are making
now. So if the direction that they want to go in is what they have
been making, I would never work with them again because I think
what they are making is garbage. If I ever recorded them again I
would not use a single synthesizer or sampler on the production. I
would record their voices in a series of different, live, natural
surroundings - with animals groaning in the background, airplanes
taking off and landing in the background, cab drivers honking their
horns, and such. Then I would convert the natural sounds to
beats and rhythms and mix them with Neil and Chriss voices. The
result would be a cross between Iggy Pop and Billy Idol with a
British flavour. If the Boys let me produce them in this manner,
then I would record them again. Otherwise, I would never again
work with them in the studio.

If they wanted to make another record like an Its a Sin, or
You Are Always on My Mind, then I think I am uniquely qualified
to make those kind of records. If I had to have any kind of a
relationship with the Pet Shop Boys today it would be a managerial
relationship. I would tell them exactly what they should be doing. I
would tell them exactly why they should stop doing what they are
doing. I would do that in a sense of getting them to make
themselves a little more accessible to world markets. When Its a
Sin came out they could have used that as an advantage to
preach whatever gospel they wanted to preach.

Them producing Dusty Springfield was a gain to Dusty
Springfield. Not to Neil and Chris. Lets face it, shes a great artist, a
great singer, and she only made the record because Neil and Chris
said Well produce you. They had the name, so they did her a
tremendous service by producing her. And I can imagine the reason
Neil and Chris produced her is because they had this youthful
affinity towards her, probably the same that they had towards me

34

when they first met me... what compelled them to come and search
me out. Likewise, Liza Minnelli. That was more personal pleasure
that they derived out of doing that than anything else, because it
did not benefit them more than it benefited Dusty or Liza.

Pet Shop Boys and Dusty Springfield

35

8. New Opportunities
[Contents]

Having signed a five year management deal with Tom
Watkins of Massive Management on 31 October 1984, Neil and
Chris had to wait several months before their big break occurred in
March 1985, when they organized a worldwide deal with
Parlophone Records, who successfully fought off interest from
several other major labels in order to sign them. Neil left his
position at Smash Hits on 5 April 1985. As a parting gift, the
management presented him with a mock cover, displaying the
headline: Why I Quit SMASH HITS TO Be a Teen Sensa ion. The
next issue predicted that in a matter of weeks Neils pop duo, the
Pet Shop Boys, will be down the dumper and hell come crawling
back on bended knees, ha ha ha.
t

With the security of a contract firmly under their belts, the
Boys headed straight for the studio to record the single
Opportunities (Lets Make Lots of Money) (back with In the
Night). As a prepublicity gimmick, pictures began appearing in the
Press, despite the fact that there was no product to speak of on the
shelves. It was a clever ploy, and kept the general public bemused.
That was until 1 J uly, when the single saw the light of day. It came
in 7-inch and two different 12-inch versions. The first 12-inch was
produced by Nicholas Froome and J .J . J eczalik (producer for the Art
of Noise). The second was produced by Ron Dean Miller of Nuance,
and edited by the Latin Rascals, whom the Boys had met whilst in
New York with Bobby O. Like West End Girls, it received plenty of
airplay - including the Boys appearance on the TV show
Poparound - but failed to reach the nationally compiled Top

36

Seventy-five, peaking at Number 116. Despite the poor sales
response, the single helped fuel the Boys reputation. While
promoting it around the club circuit in London, it dawned on Neil
and Chris that West End Girls was still a dance floor favourite -
as Bobby O had intimated. As a result, and much against the
wishes of both their record company and Massive Management, the
song was rerecorded, this time under the production expertise of
Stephen Hague, and taking about a week in the studio. It was
subsequently released on 28 October, taking three months to break
through into the Top Ten, where it went on to become the first
Number One of 1986, holding the top spot for two weeks. It sold
around 750,000 copies in the UK alone. West End Girls eventually
topped the charts in America, Canada, Finland, Hong Kong, Ireland,
Israel, New Zealand and Norway, selling 1.5 million copies. It
entered the Top Five of thirteen further countries. The association
with producer Stephen Hague was firmly established. Neil
commented at the time: People endlessly ask us what its like
having a Number One. But what it feels like is vaguely nothing. It
feels like having a cup of tea.

It had proved to be a case of better the second time round in
England, as one of Neils former colleagues was to write that the
incorporation of street sounds created an atmosphere of
danceteria sleaze thats almost sinister. West End Girls was not
the first song to be given a successful second lease of life. The
same thing happened with A-Has Take on Me. It reached
Number One only after a third national campaign by the groups
record company. The same thing was to happen to Belouis Some,
who first released his dance track Imagination in 1985. It sold
well in Europe and went to Number Two in Italy, but peaked at
Number 47 in Britain. EMI re-released it and up it soared. Im on
the first rung of the ladder now and the world is open to me, he
reported. The worlds oyster was definitely more open to the Pet
Shop Boys. Neils local newspaper, the Evening Chronicle, reported,
A new Geordie talent has taken the nation by storm - with a
Number One smash hit record! West End Girls, the first record
release of new band the Pet Shop Boys, has reached the top spot in

37

Britains pop charts - and Gosforth-born Neil Tennant is reeling
from the success. Now they are working hard recording their first
album - due to be released in March - and Neil and partner Chris
Lowe have barely had time to celebrate their Number One
wonder... Now the Pet Shop Boys, already receiving sackfuls of fan
mail, are all set to become the pop star heart throbs of 1986. Neil
said, The song was released in April 1984, but it did absolutely
nothing in Britain. But we had great faith in the song. And when we
signed with our new record company we decided to put out an
entirely new version. Luckily for us this time round it worked. A
spokesperson for Parlophone Records said, They were thrilled and
amazed when they learned that West End Girls had got to the
top of the charts. We all thought it had peaked when it got to
Number Four at Christmas, so this is wonderful news. I think Chris
and Neil took time off to drink a little champagne, but they are
working flat out in the recording studio.

Even flat out, Neil had time to make
the following modest comment, Its a
brilliant song, if I say so myself. Its
completely original and doesnt sound
like anything else. Everybody seems to
like it, from DJ s to mums and dads, so
it must have something. Ive sung it a
hundred times and Im not bored with
it yet! The video of the single, for
BBC-TVs Top of the Pops, was
definitely a landmark in its stiltedness - especially to the Boys. Chris
was seen hitting the keys on his board with only one finger, and
Neil stood rooted to the spot wearing a drape coat. According to
the Boys, they were merely repeating their performance in Belgium,
when they thought at the time they were doing a radio interview,
but instead they also had to perform. Chris merely played the bass
line, which only required one finger anyway, and it accidentally
translated into something that he felt was well suited to the actual
mood of the song, it stuck. It was also an image that was to stick
with the Press and public - sometimes in their throats.

38

20. Memories Are Made of This
[Contents]

There is no payback time, stresses Bobby Orlando. I have
done well with the Pet Shop Boys. There were a few things that
they had written that always clarified my position. The only
comment I always felt and the only frustration I ever had
throughout my whole relationship with them was the fact that they
ended up on EMI, which I always found to be incredible because
they had passed on the group. If they had wound up on any other
label it probably would not have been as frustrating.

I felt very paternal about Neil and Chris. I felt compelled to
protect them - to look after them and guide them. To protect them
from the cruel and evil music business and the demons that are
employed by that business. In a sense, I wanted to protect them
from the cruel and evil world. But I discovered that they really did
not want or need my protection. Somehow we perceive as frail and
breakable the things we care so much about when in reality these
things are quite strong and unbreakable. We always end up losing
the things we strive to keep yet we can never rid ourselves of the
things which we try to abandon. Thats why people are never really
happy and most certainly never fully content, regardless of their
station in life. Bobby has received many offers - including one from
a film company in Germany - to buy out his entire master
catalogue, which is extensive, with Divine, the Flirts, the Pet Shop
Boys, and Lisa Lisa. Frankly, he doesnt need the money. Right now
the catalogue is his link to the music business. It would be at least
a year before he would sell them off to another company. Whether
he becomes involved in the music business in a year is going to

39

depend largely upon what kind of artists are out there. If whats out
there today is going to be out there in a year, then thats it for him;
there is nothing out there that is attractive to him. What attracts
Bobby Orlando are several Pet Shop Boys songs he retained that
were very important because he recognized them as great tracks.
(When the duo settled with Bobby Orlando, they relinquished all
further royalties on his versions.) Of course, the Pet Shop Boys can
rerecord any of the material in Bobbys care, but, more importantly,
they cannot restrain him from putting material out. The reason he
hasnt put new material out in the past year and a half is because
he has been waiting for them to come out with their new album
first. He says, Right now, to be honest, if I put out these numbers
I dont know whether it would mean anything. They have to rebuild
or restructure something. And then, of course, I am going to try to
profit from it as best I can. By taking time off, I dont know if what
they did was smart or stupid. I think it was stupid.

They also had another song called To Speak Is a Sin, also
recorded by Bobby Orlando. It is one that he gave them back and
one which, he says, they should release. I wish I still had it, he
says. Another they have which is fabulous is called Pet Shop
Boys (the song that the Smash Hits team in London were most
impressed by). It has never been released because I own it. I didnt
release it because it didnt feature enough of them. It is a twenty-
eight-minute piece, like a concerto, with all classical piano. It is
unusual and very abstract. Some parts are disco, others break-
dancing, with different rhythms and patterns, yet it is one continual
flow of music. Bobby has fond memories of his time with the Boys,
and is upset when he thinks about the problems that arose when
they finally left Bobcat. I did what I had to do legally, and it was a
matter of three days, not a year. There was no lawsuit. It was
quick and done. They had these lawyers who were telling them the
contract was bullshit, so I had to attack the lawyers. He says it is
sad the way Neil and Chris interpreted events. I called them to tell
them I didnt like their last album but I did that as a friend and as a
producer. They could do much better. There were one or two good
songs on it, but they are capable of making records like Its a

40

Sin. The hip-hop dance world that they were initially exposed to
thought they were wonderful. Radio was also attracted to them.
They were taken up really quickly, at a time when Bobby himself
was peaking as a producer, and he had done some of the best stuff
of his career at that point. Prior to making a penny with the Pet
Shop Boys, obviously it had cost me a lot of money, he says.
Chris Lowe and Neil Tennant are exactly fifty/fifty input into that
duo. Neil could not be the Pet Shop Boys without Chris, and vice
versa. The only reason Neil might be a little more in the drivers
seat is because he is the singer and the voice is more identifiable
than a keyboard player - particularly one who doesnt play! Even if
Chris just plonked a chord or two, it was the way he played the
chord. And he played it differently. He would play an A-minor chord
differently to the next person. We would do it the correct way, he
would do it the incorrect way and his way would sound better.

He didnt care at all about me playing. He thought it was
funny. Now if they are smart they will make Bobby O sounding
records. Im not saying that from an egotistical point of view. They
will make the kind of records that made them successful. If they
are foolish they will keep making Domino Dancing type stupid
records that make no sense for them to do. Any success they have
as a result of those records, should be used to make an important
statement. They should not release another record unless they
have somebody listen to it after it is completed, to review it. They
need someone, whether it is myself or someone like myself who
really knows what they are doing. They should heed the advice I
gave them then and they should heed it today. It is more true
today than it was then. You have to focus on whatever you want to
do in your life. From 1980 to 1987 I had one goal and one goal only
- to be the McDonalds of the record business. I wanted to release
more records, like they release hamburgers, than anybody could
have. I didnt care if they sold or if they didnt sell. I wanted to be a
part of the Bobby O story and when 1987 came and I had finally
reached that goal and my company released over one thousand
records I said, Thats it. No more. By then Bobby had sold off a
good part of his company. He wrote a book that he had been

41

working on for three years called Darwin Destroyed, which refutes
the theory of evolution. The book was a key turning point in what
Bobby wanted to do with his own life.

He sent the Boys a copy of the book. They never responded.
At that time the book was my tunnel vision, and then I was going
to decide what I wanted to do for the Nineties. Now (1990) I am
really one year away from making the final thrust into what I am
going to do with my life, he says. Prior to entering the music
industry, Bobby had attended prelaw school. Now back with his
studies, he plans on taking the Bar exam in summer 1991. He is
also a registered lobbyist. If there is going to be any kind of
continuance in the music industry for me, its going to be in such a
way that it cleanses the industry. Right now its run essentially like
a large mafia. Its like a big conspiracy, with a unit of power
brokers that rule the industry. I think I could best do that in a legal
capacity or in my lobbyist capacity. The Pet Shop Boys for me
wasnt just another record ultimately. Maybe at that point I was
trying to cleanse the system and I was using them as the mop and
they didnt want to be the mop. The Pet Shop Boys were my
rainmaker and the fact that that rainmaker didnt happen to me
was really perhaps Gods way of saying, That is just not the
environment that I want you to be in. Consequently, I have never
got excited about another artist I worked with after that. Bobby O
has neither produced nor released a new record in two years.

42

Summary
[Contents]

The book itself is mainly about the Pet Shop Boys (not
authorized by the Pet Shop Boys), but it contains sections which are
made up from a Bobby Orlando interview. Bobby talks at length
about his relationship with the Pet Shop Boys and how it developed
over time. He also shares his views he had at that time (1990) on
the music industry and the impact of sampling and new technology.
Introspective is out of print, maybe you can find a used
copy at a bookshop network site like www.abebooks.com.

43

Kimberly Leaston
Bobby Orlando - The story of O
(The Face magazine, 1987)
[Contents]

Since the early eighties the small American label, O Records,
has had vast commercial success with its superlative blending of
New York Disco and Euro pop. With Hi-Energy on the verge of a
second coming, its egocentric owner remains the self-styled master
of classic techno trash. I am still the greatest, says Bobby Orlando.

1976 - MIDTOWN MANHATTEN. A man and a boy are
walking Broadway. The man - slacks, silky, neck, leather coat. Bets
are taken and the kid drops to the floor does push-ups on one
finger without breaking a sweat, without even taking out his gum.
He flexes his stocky Italian boots little as they leave. Small time
amateur boxer, easy money. But the son of a schoolteacher from
middle class New York suburb of Westchester doesnt want to be a
boxer forever. He wouldnt like his pretty face spoiled, of course,
but at 18 years old Bobby Orlando has already turned down a
scholarship to a classical music school and can blow away J ohnny
Thunders, guitarist with his favourite group of three years earlier,
The New York Dolls. Hes been in a couple of teenage glitter rock
bands and he doesnt listen to Alice Cooper any more. Now disco is
his obsession and he wants to make records.

Three years later, his third attempt at production is a dance
chart hit. He writes the now-definitive Hi-Energy anthem Desire
for a girl he met in a restaurant. Taken with the pushy little guy
whod rather go without a watch until he can afford a Rolex, the

44

young Roni Griffith signs the 50/50 contract written on a napkin,
has an affair with the producer and a massive European success
with the song.

Ronni Griffith

In 1980 he pays off the loan shark who financed the session
and sets up his own label at a time when classic Seventies disco
was considered laid to rest with Chics Good Times but before
the all-synthesized techno beat of Hi-Energy hit the peak it was to
reach in 1983. With an enormous catalogue of releases launched by
The Flirts Passion and Divines Native Love and working

45

alongside mixers who have come up through the network of New
York clubs - J ohn J ellybean Benitez, Kiss FMs Shep Pettibone - O
Records has had 17 gold and five platinum smashes in America and
Europe in its seven years. Shoot your shot, the B-side of Divines
second single J ungle J ezebel, went gold so quickly in the Benelux
countries that it was re-released as an A side within a month. For a
small record company with a low profile, thats a high profile of hit
records.

THE SUITE OF ROOMS - reception, O Office and musty box
of a studio - isnt much bigger than the bar where Bobby O, as he
is known, made his first fistful of dollars, overlooking the same
stretch of Broadway. The lights and the milky grey brick and the
steam from the subway and the Chinese fast food shop fill the
eleventh floor with the seamy aroma that turns all of New York into
a permanent mini-cab office. Boom, boom, hup hup hup: Farley
Funkin Keith is mixing in the musty box. Bobby O still wants to
make records. This year hes planning on 30 a month. Boxing is
kind of like records, he says In that they are both sleazy
businesses. In boxing you deal with sleazy characters but they have
a certain charm to them. Most people in the record business arent
as charming, so going from one to the other was a relatively simple
thing for me. The only difference is that with records you take the
aggression you would normally use beating the hell out of a guy by
punching beats. Its the same punch, the same drive. Calling his
lawyer on the car phone while sparring with the Westchester city
bound traffic in a red mercedes is fun. Its a good start to the
drama of the day. Dramas that are a mixture of rescoration comedy
and lurid Vegas camp. The rake arrives at the cabaret early in jeans
and a laundered sweatshirt, Tex Avery quiff perfect. He just
finalised the deal on the penthouse down the street. Lets face it,
real estate is all that counts. I failed as a hippy because I was too
much of a capitalist. Says Bobby O, swivelling in his chair to view
the mirrored building that is now partly his. I mean I had a
chequebook, no hippy ever had a chequebook, so I was a total
failure. But glitter rock, oh I was a real glitter boy. I had very long
hair - you just wouldnt believe. I was very pretty, exceedingly like

46

real very pretty. And with glitter rock you didnt have to take drugs
and it was OK to be a capitalist. I mean platform shoes are
expensive, right? He didnt have the balls to wear make-up but the
romance with the high champ has yet to end. New York Dolls,
Divine, same difference. The fast talking, intensively macho
exhibitionist is also a voyeur. A homophobe who once pulled out of
buying an apartment after discovering that the previous owner was
gay, he has built a career on making music for a predominantly gay
audience.

Bobby Os history of working relationships reads like a Bel Air
alimony lawyers casebook. One of his most successful associations
ended understandably abruptly when he claimed he could cure
the artist of his homosexuality, but men continue to be mesmerized
by the electric vitality of this irresistible, impossible character.
Women, too, are oddly tantalized by a man fixes his dark eyes to
theirs over dinner, tells them just how he likes to make love, and
what a great lover he is, and then kisses them goodnight on the
cheek only to call at midnight to ask if they are naked. The
technical skill involved in such heavyweight flirting requires not only
a core of pure narcissism but an ability to use the power of
sexuality without feeling the surge of any real lust. His most
enduring partnership has been with The Flirts, a sort female
Menudo, the three girl line-up changes with almost every release
and on the new, their second album, Questions Of The Heart - a
deliciously crass concoction of Euro pop, J anet J ackson and Sixties
girl groups - theyre looking, frankly, a little old. The models wont
mind if theyre dropped; the group exists only as an LP sleeve.
Apart from a brace of session singers, Bobby O is The Flirts. Songs
about sex, not lust. Sex on the phone, sex on the mind, everything
but the real kind. The single , All You Ever Think About Is (Sex)
is classic Bobby O in mood, coquettishly provocative record with the
pressing problem of an over ardent admirer, but essentially anti-sex
combination of the two elements that overloaded his imagination.
I love sex, dont you? he says, quoting from his lyrics Young
virgins become restless nymphomaniacs, virtue become vice. Its
natural, isnt it?

47

In 1983 he releases Im In Love With A Married Man. A lot
of people fall in love with a married men, so what do they do? Its a
problem. My concern is that even if you manage, in an earthly
sense, to break up the marriage all youve really succeeded in doing
is to dig a deeper hole into hell. The punishment may not come
from here; it could be on the other side of grave. You know what
Im saying? This is not someone however who lists God discreetly
amongst the records sleeve credits.

At O records, discretion is a sin second only to losing a
lawsuit. I regard each record I make as worthless and useless just
like anybody elses says Bobby O with some venom. Anybody who
thinks that their music is something special is worshipping a false
doctrine. There is nothing that any artist can say that is really of
any importance because anything other than Gods word is laced
with the evil and has to regarded as sin tainted. Theres nothing
more serious than showbiz, but this is a new twist to the script.
Four years ago Bobby O was going about his business with only
himself to answer to. Even though he claims to have been heavily
into the Bible, from which he quotes at length, the potential
greatness of a partnership with God had yet to occur to him. Lunch
at the Applejack Diner was a simple affair involving omelettes and
conversation as down to earth as is possible for someone whose
feet have never made actual contact with the ground. At the self-
consciously upmarket Cafe 57, however, where every waitress has

48

an Equity card and the mink coats are so new theyre still twitching,
Bobby O speaks of little but the Lord. Sometimes being born once
just isnt enough. Im a sinner and a scumbag. I know it, he
confesses. But thats where salvation comes in. My real citizenship
is in heaven, Im just an ambassador right now. The Bible clearly
states be fruitful and multiply and replenish the earth and thats
what I do, Im being fruitful, Im multiplying - I put out more
records than anybody in the world, theres nobody puts out more
records than me. If a producer has the ability to put out that many
records and he doesnt then he is disobeying Gods command.

Like a Where Eagles Dare of the music industry, Bobby O
plays out his boys own battle with monolithic major record
companies cast as the bad guys who pay the price in heaven. If
youre going to win a war you have to hit with a lot of bullets, runs
the logic. For me making records is a weapon. Sometimes the
bullets connect and sometimes they dont. My goal is to pummel
CBS and others like them, not having a huge hit records but having
a lot of bullets out there. The only difference is that they have
Michael J ackson and I have The Flirts. The fact that Questions Of
The Heart is released through Epic is due, according to him, to a
contract signed in the rushes of his youth. But humouring the
enemy is one way to win a war and when O records relinquished
the Pet Shop Boys to EMI in 1985 he struck a points deal on their
subsequent releases that has made him a millionaire.

When Bobby O says he would rather put out 200 records that
sell 5000 copies each than one record that sells a million he speaks
the gospel truth. And considering the amount of small labels either
bankrupted or forced into deals with large companies because of
the distribution pressures of a major hit record, there is undoubted
method to his madness. By continuing to have steady flow of minor
successes in American and European dance charts with acts barely
known outside the area, like the Boyd Brothers or Nancy Dean,
Bobby O will surely achieve his ambition of becoming the Ronald
McDonald of the music industry. You know, he says with typical
zeal. Over a billion served.

49

ITS GETTING LATE. Bobby O is ready for the drive to the
suburbs. Maybe hell look in at his new penthouse, maybe hell stop
by the row of brownstones hes having converted to apartments.
Paul Mineo, one of his countrys countless cousins of Sal and the
hustler of Bobby Os boxing days, is still here. Last night he slept on
the couch in the O office, now hes sitting at the small table set
aside for him eating burger and fries. One thing Bobby O learnt
when he was a fighter. Never mix protein and starch.

50

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