DE15 TranscriptOfInitialHearing

Case 9:08-cv-80736-KAM Document 15 Entered on FLSD Docket 07/18/2008 Page 1 of 32
THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT CO~,.__________

SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF FLORIDA FllEDby_O.G.
CASE NO.
JUl 1 7 2008
08-80736-CIV-MARRA
STEVEN M. LARIMORE
CLERK U S DIST CT
S. D. of FLA.- MIAMI ,_
IN RE:
JANE DOE,
OR IGINA
Plaintiff,
vs.
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA,
Defendant.
___________________________________ !
Federal Courthouse
West Palm Beach, Florida
July 11, 2008
10:15 a.m.
The above entitled matter came on for

Emergency Petitioner for Enforcement of Crime Victim
Rights before the Honorable Kenneth A. Marra,
pursuant to Notice, taken before Victoria Aiello,
Court Reporter, pages 1-32.
For the Plaintiff:
Bradley Edwards, Esquire
For the Defendant:
Dexter Lee, AUSA

Maria Villafana, AUSA
OFFICIAL REPORTING SERVICES, LLC
(954) 467-8204

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1
\~ '_LJJV'
(Call to Order of the Court).
THE COURT: Good morning.
This is the case of In Re:
Number 08-80736-Civ-Marra.
their appearances, please?
Please be seated.
Jane Doe, Case
May I have counsel state
MR. LEE: Good mornlng, Your Honor.
May it
please the Court, for the United States of America,
we have Maria Villafana, Assistant United States
Attorney and Dexter Lee, Assistant United States
10
Attorney. And we have seated in the front row FBI
11
Special Agent Becker Kendall and Jason Richards.
12
Thank you, Your Honor.

MR. EDWARDS: Good morning, Your Honor.
13
Brad
14
Edwards on behalf of the petitioners. Petitioners
15
are also in the courtroom today.
16
styled on her behalf.
17
THE COURT: Good morning.
This petition is
All right.
We're
18
here on the petitioner's motion to enforce her
19
rights as a victim under 18 USC 3771.
20
received the petition, the government's response and
21
the victim's reply, which was filed,
22
morning.
23
24
25
I have
I guess, this
So, You want to proceed, counsel?.

MR. EDWARDS: Yes, Your Honor.
You prefer me
at the podium?
THE COURT:
It is easier for us to hear you.
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MR. EDWARDS: Your Honor, as a factual
background, Mr. Epstein is a billionaire that
sexually abused and molested dozens and dozens of
girls between the ages of 13 and 17 years old.
through cooperating victims, that evidence can be
proven. Because of his deviant appetite for young
girls, combined with his extraordinary wealth and
power, he may just be the most dangerous sexual
predator in U.S. history.
And
This petitioner is one of
10
the victims and she is in attendance today.
11
one of Mr. Epstein's victims is also in attendance
12
today.
13
she provided-- that Mr. Epstein paid her to provide
14
him over 50 girls for the purposes of him to
15
sexually abuse.
16
petition are clear.
17
worked out for Mr. Epstein in light of the offenses
18
that he committed is clearly unfair to the point
19
that if anybody looks at the information, it is
20
unconscionable.
21
Another
She would be able to provide evidence that
Therefore, the undercurrents of the
THE COURT:
The plea bargain that was
Well, I mean, is that for me?
22
That's not my role. That's the prosecutor's role to
23
apply, would it not? I can't force them to bring
24
criminal charges.
25
What do I have to do with that.
MR. EDWARDS: Okay.
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THE COURT:
That may be your opinion, that
may be your client's opinion, but I presume that the
government is aware that that's your client's
opinion.
How does that change anything?

MR. EDWARDS: That's my problem.
I'm not
sure that the government is aware that is
petitioner's opinion and that's why we're here
today,
USC 3771, Crime Victims Rights Act, and all we are
just to enforce the victim's rights under 18
10
asking is to order that the plea agreement that has
11
been negotiated in this case--
12
THE COURT:
13
agreement?
14
Florida, wasn't it?
15
How do you know there is a plea
The plea agreement is with the State of
MR. EDWARDS: There was a state charge with
16
one victim that I'm aware of.
17
agreement as to that one victim was 18 months in the
18
county jail. But along with that, the Palm Beach
19
County Sheriff investigating this case was getting
20
no action out of the local authorities and sent this
21
to the FBI.
22
23
24
25
THE COURT:
And the plea
It was actually the Palm Beach--
Town of Palm Beach Police, not the Sheriff's Office.

MR. EDV,JARDS: I'm sorry, Judge.
And that's
why the FBI got involved because Michael Feeter
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wrote a scathing letter to the State Attorney about
Mr. Epstein receiving preferencial treatment by
local authorities.
Before the FBI took the case, they went
4
5
behind the victim's back, and this is our motion,
without the victim's input and allowing her the
right to meaningfully confer with the government,
which is a right that she can assert at this time.
They worked out a plea deal where if Mr. Epstein
10
would plead to this other charge regarding another
11
victim in the state court case, they would agree to
12
not prosecute him for all of the federal charges of
13
what they were aware of in federal court ..
14
15
THE COURT:
So that's already apparently
taken place, correct?

MR. EDWARDS: I don't know if it has taken
16
17
place. I'm not sure exactly what stage it is in.
18
know it is supposed to be attached at some point in
19
time to a state court plea.

THE COURT: Hasn't he already plead guilty,
20
21
22
though?
MR. EDWARDS: If he did plead guilty, it is
23
my understanding and belief that the agreement with
24
the federal government and with the U.S. Attorney's
25
Office wasn't signed on that day.
So it is still my
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belief, I could be wrong, but that that agreement
hasn't been completed as of this time.

THE COURT:
3
4
completed.
So let's assume it hasn't been
MR. EDWARDS: Okay.
Then petitioner would
like the right to confer with--
THE COURT:
You can go in the conference
room. We've got the FBI agents, you've got the
assigned prosecuting attorney.
10
conference room.
11
talk.
12
decide what to do, correct?
13
Confer.
You have got a
You've got your client.
Go and
And then it is up government to
MR. EDWARDS: In a way, Your Honor, that's
14
very similar to what happened in In Re: Dean and PB
' 15
case where there is a plea agreement negotiated and
16
17
18
19
then the victim gets the right to confer.

THE COURT:
It's already negotiated.
What
am I supposed to do?
MR. EDWARDS: Order that the agreement that
20
was negotiated is invalid and it is illegal as it
21
did not pertain to the rights of the victim.
22
THE COURT:
I can order you into the
23
conference room.
Then the government can do what it
24
chooses. It can agree to prosecute or it can agree
25
to going forward with the agreement it had already
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reached and after consulting your client and in
taking into consideration your client's views,
decide to go forward anyway. I can't make them
prosecute him.
say confer with the victim, consider the victim's
input before you make a decision or reconsider the
decision you already made in view of the victim's
input, if it is possible for you to do that.
I invalidate the agreement, what's the best you can
10
get?
I can't-- All I can do is, at best,
So if
The right to confer?
11
MR. EDWARDS: Exactly.
That is all we can.
12
THE COURT: So why can't you go into the
13
conference room now, take as much time as you feel
14
you need and confer?
15
MR. EDWARDS: Judge, at this time I'd like to
16
move ore tenus to add the victim that's in the
17
courtroom to this conference with the U.S.
18
Attorney's Office.
19
THE COURT:
20
So is that Jane Doe 2 for
purposes of this?
21
MR. EDWARDS: Exactly, Your Honor.
22
THE COURT:
23
All right. Let me hear from the
government then.
24
MR. LEE:.
25
please the Court.
Good morning, Your Honor.
May it
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Let me update the Court on the status of
various matters.
to the State of Florida was signed and completed by
December of 2007.
higher review within the Department of Justice and
it took a number of months for that to come to
fruition.
pleading guilty on June 30, 2008 to two charges in
state court, and he was sentenced to a term of
The agreement to defer prosecution
Mr. Epstein's attorneys saught a
When it came to fruition, he ended up
10
incarceration of 18 months, with another 12 months
11
of community control after the completion of his
12
sentence, and he is currently incarcerated as we
13
speak.
14
We have two arguments, Your Honor.
15
insofar as the right that they claim under
16
3771(a) (5), their right to confer in the case, we
17
respectfully submit that there was no case in
18
federal court and, indeed, none was contemplated if
19
the plea agreement was to be successfully completed,
20
since it contemplated the State of Florida sentence
21
on the criminal charges.
22
conditions were met and certain federal interests
23
were vindicated, the federal government was
24
satisfied that this was an appropriate disposition.
25
First,
So as long as certain
Insofar as the best effort, Your Honor, we
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have cited the Attorney General's guidelines.
guidelines do say that you should normally advise
victims of plea negotiations and the terms of the
plea, but they recognize that there are times when
they may not be appropriate or could cause some harm
or prejudice, and they set out six factors which are
to be considered, non-exhaustive factors.
8
9
The
We have advised, in the declaration of AUSA

Villafana that when the subject of having Mr.
10
Epstein concede that he would be convicted of an
11
enumerated offense for purposes of a cause of action
12
under 18 USC 2255, there was a rather strenuous
13
objection from Mr. Epstein's counsel that the
14
federal government was inducing some effort to
15
either fabricate claims, enhance claims or embellish
16
claims and if this agreement ultimately could not be
17
consumated, then we'd have a federal prosecution on
18
our hands, and we did not want to be in a positin of
19
creating additional impeachment material.
20
I can't say that the stand by Mr. Edwards
21
that the arguments of inducement in a subsequent
22
civil action can be made by any criminal victim,
23
that is true.
24
inducement to have come before the prosecution
25
arguing about the credibility and veracity of the
It is another thing for that
li.I:.Y
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individual. That was a considerably strong point, in
essence, in not discussing those terms with the
victims as might ordinarily be done if those
considerations did not exist.
So, first, Your Honor, we believe that
3771(a) (5) does not apply.
THE COURT:
Well, what about the language in
the statute that suggests that a victim can bring a
claim or seek enforcement of his or her rights under
10
the statute before a case is filed?
11
refer to?
12
What does that
MR. LEE: Your Honor, we believe that's a
13
venue provision essentially telling an individual if
14
there is no exigent case, there is no case of United
15
States versus So And So, then you seek to enforce
16
your rights, then you can go in and do so in the did
17
court where the offense occurred.
18
saying, necessarily, that rights exist, but if you
19
believe they exist, here is the place where you're
20
going to have to lodge it, and the Court will have
21
to decide.
22
This is not
Now, there are certain of the eight rights
23
accorded in 3771(a) that could come up before any
24
charge is filed.
25
believes that the perpetrator of the crime is going
For instance, let's say somebody
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1
to try to harm them or threatened them or
intimidated them into not testifying or cooperating
with the government and, of course, no indictment
has been returned. If an individual went to the
government and believed that the individual had not
acted appropriately, they can go to the district
court and say I need to have my rights under
3771(a) (1) enforced because those people are
threatening me, and the government hasn't done
10
enough.
That would be a situation.

But we're talking really here about (a) (5),
11
12
which is the right to consult in the case and we
13
respectfully submit that there is not case until a
14
charge has been filed.
15
THE COURT:
So, what about the circuit case
16
that was actually pending case had to do with a plea
17
agreement in a pending case?
18
MR. LEE: Yes.
The distinction between the
19
Dean case and the instant case, Your Honor, is
20
this.
21
Petroleum for a plea and it was always contemplated
22
that there was going to be a federal prosecution.
23
The distinction in this case was that there was
24
already a pending state prosecution and the
25
objective for both sides was to keep it in state
In Dean, they had negotiated with BP
(954) 467-8204
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"!
court and the federal government's objective was to
ensure that there were sufficient safeguards in the
state court proceedings and concessions made by Mr.
Epstein so that federal interests, particularly a
cause of action for damages for the victims of the
sexual exploitation could be preserved. So that's
the key distinction because there was no federal
case, there was no federal criminal charge
contemplate so long as the agreement could be
10
reached.
11
12
THE COURT:
All right.
So they want me to
invalidate your non-prosecution agreement.
13
MR. LEE: Your Honor, we respectfully submit
14
that 3771 does not grant authority of this Court to
15
do so.
16
there was a plea agreement that was entered into and
17
district court, of course, entertained a plea
18
agreement and exercised its judicial discretion in
19
terms of whether to accept it or not.
20
were encouraged to go to district court and say, you
21
know, we didn't hear about this.
22
and we object to it for the following reasons.
23
district court take that into account.
24
plea agreement before this Court.
25
plea proceedings in this court.
In the Dean case, for instance, Your Honor,
The victims
We should have,
The
There is no
There will be no
That was all done
',!; ,:_L}"
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1
in state court several weeks ago.
basis for distinguishing Dean.
3
4
THE COURT:
MR. LEE: Your Honor, I will always confer,
sit down with Jane Doe 1 and 2, with the two agents
and Ms. Villafana. We'll be happy to sit down with
them.
THE COURT:
.IP'
So is there any
point in conferring with these victims?
'll
All right.
So that's another
But it wouldn't make any
10
difference in terms of the outcome.
Would maybe
11
give them the benefit of your explanation of why you
12
did what you did and why you came to the conclusion
13
you did, but it is not going to change your decision
14
in any way.
MR. LEE: If it is going to change, it would
15
16
have to be done at a level higher than mine, Your
17
Honor.
18
THE COURT:
What was-- I didn't understand
19
your statement earlier that Mr. Epstein wanted some
20
kind of review of higher authority within the
21
Department in terms of whether or not the federal
22
government was going to insist on preserving any
23
civil claims.
24
25
MR. LEE: Your Honor, of the agreement was

consumated by the parties in December of 2007.
Mr.
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1
Epstein's attorneys wanted a further review of the
agreement higher up within the Department of Justice
and they exercised their ability to do that.
understand.
he had signed?
Meaning? Again, I'm trying to
He wasn't happy with the agreement that
MR. LEE: Basically, yes.
And was trying to
maintain that the agreement should be set aside or
more favorable terms.
10
THE COURT:
Now, in terms of -- You don't
11
dispute that Jane Doe 1 and 2-- First of all, do you
12
have an objection to Jane Doe 2 being added as a
13
petitioner in this case?
14
MR. LEE: No, I don't.
15
THE COURT:
16
You don't dispute that they're victims
17
18
I'll grant that request.
within the meaning of the Act.

MR. LEE: It depends to which -- There is one
19
Jane Doe-- Well, there is one individual who is one
20
of Mr. Edwards' clients who we do not believe to
21
been a victim.
22
no objection and I can discuss-- If I may have a
23
moment, Your Honor.
24
25
I
THE COURT:
If these are SN and CW, then we have
Your Honor, thank you.

corrected.
I have been
We have no objection.
.V'
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,'
THE COURT:
MR. LEE: We agree they're victims.
THE COURT:
',
Now, what is your position,
then, regarding the right of a victim of a crime
that is potentially subject to federal prosecution
to be, to have input with the prosecutor, your
office, before a resolution or decision not to
prosecute is made?
right to confer under those circumstances because
10
there is no "case pending" so any decision not to
11
prosecute, there is no right to confer but that
12
right to confer only is triggered once there is an
13
indictment or an information filed?
14
Do you say that there is no
MR. LEE: That is correct, Your Honor.
The
15
Attorney General guidelines which were published in
16
May of 2005 provide that the rights in 3771(a) (1
17
through 8) accrue when a charge is filed in federal
18
court.
19
decision.
20
the government's position.
21
THE COURT:
22
saying all of the rights--
23
,,,
Okay.
Now, that my change after the Dean

It is under consideration.
All right.
But that's
And so -- Are you
MR. LEE: Your Honor, some of the rights
24
clearly will only pertain after a charge has been
25
filed.
The one that pertains to notice of public
(954) 467-8204
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1
hearing, public proceedings, though, can't apply
until there are public proceedings to be had.

Of course, these guidelines are a floor and
-1
-'"'
not a ceiling.
They're to be applied with common
sense.
being investigated and somebody would come in and
say the perpetrator whom you're investigating is
getting ready to indict has been threatening me,
following me, and I need help because he or she is
If somebody-- If charges of assault were
10
going to do something bad to me and try to take care
11
of me before I can testify in the grand jury, this
12
person would not be turned away because a charge
13
hasn't been filed yet.
14
applied with common sense.
15
Those guidelines would be
But specifically insofar as a
(a) (5), which
16
is the right to consult with the attorney for the
17
government in the case, that would not accrue until
18
there is a days.
19
come into being until charges are filed.
20
THE COURT:
And, in our view, a case doesn't
And are there any reported
21
decisions that you are aware of where any court has
22
found a right to confer before charges are filed?
23
MR. LEE: I'm not aware of any, Your Honor.
24
THE COURT:
25
MR. LEE: Thank you, Your Honor.
All right.
Thank you.
(954) 467-8204
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1
THE COURT:
MR. EDWARDS: I would just like to address
Counsel?
that Dean decision.
just simply ignore it because the decision clearly
was a decision made because as it is a direct result
of a plea deal being worked out prior to the victims
being able to speak.
THE COURT:
They're asking you that you
But there was a pending case,
though, correct?
10
MR. EDWARDS: As I understand the decision--
11
THE COURT: As I understand the plea deal, it
12
was negotiated prior to charges being filed.
13
there was a filed case and then the court had the
14
ability to accept the plea or not.
15
point, you would have the ability to entertain or
16
assert an objection because you weren't consulted
17
about the plea.
18
Then
And at that
So there was a proceeding or case in which
19
you can assert a right to confer.
20
that before a case is filed?
21
government or force the government to consult about
22
not filing a case?
23
with the victim before they decide not to prosecute?
24
25
How do you do
How do you enforce the
Every case they have to consult
MR. EDWARDS: No, there are limitations.
think in my reply I refer to the case of U.S. V.
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18
'J./
Rubin where they discussed that very scenario
stating there at least has to be criminal charges
contemplate by the government before these rights
kick in.
right to confer and the Dean case clearly states
clearly rights under the CBRA apply before
prosecution is under way.
the CBRA establishments of a victim's reasonable
right to confer with the attorney for the
The rights under (d) (3) and (a) (5), the
10
government.
11
of the statutes as well.
12
Logically, this includes
And, that's read in the plain reading
This first case in interpreting it, I think
13
it's pretty clear the distinction they're making
14
between BP and this case.
15
withoug a real difference in that the court is
16
saying you have this right before the case is filed
17
which is exactly what we are saying.
18
in that case was they filed the case, later let him
19
plea out to some sweet deal.
20
we have is they avoid that by deciding not to file.
21
Either way, you deprive the victim of their right
22
before making that decision.
23
Is it a distinction
And the result
And in this case, what
And the main problem that the court had in
24
Dean, as it states, the victims do have rights when
25
there is an impact and the eventual sent is
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substantially less.
Whereas here, their input is
received after the parties have reached a tentative
deal.
reached back in October of 2007. However, attached
to their response is a letter to my client
petitioner, dated January 10, 2008, after the time
then counsel just put on the record that the deal
was already finalized and it starts, the opening
paragraph talks about whether they wanted the
Well, the government just stated the deal was
10
victims to have the right to confer.
11
case is currently under investigation.
12
January 2008.
13
and we request your continued patience while we
14
conduct a thorough investigation.
15
exact opposite of, we want you to come in and confer
16
and let us know what you really feel about this.
17
It says, this
This is
This case has been a lengthy process
Sounds like the
That is our biggest problem with what has
18
happened here, is that she just wasn't given a voice
19
and if somebody would have heard her, we believe
20
there would have been a different outcome.
21
back into a room right now and talk, after there has
22
already been a plea negotiated without Your Honor
23
ordering that in this case the plea deal needs to be
24
vacated, it is illegal and give her her rights.
25
THE COURT:
To go
Well, would you agree or not
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1
that Mr. Epstein plead guilty to the state charges
probably at least, in part, in reliance upon the
fact that he had an agreement with the federal
government they weren't going to prosecute? Would
you concede that or would would present evidence to
that effect?
MR. EDWARDS: Of course we would. Yes, of
7
8
course. Sure.
THE COURT:
So you agree that Mr. Epstein is
10
now sitting in the Palm Beach County Jail a
11
convicted felon serving 18 months of imprisonment,
12
at least in material part, because he relied upon
13
the government's non-prosecution agreement?
14
MR. EDWARDS: Yes. I agree that he is sitting
15
there because he is guilty and maybe he took the
16
plea rather than going to trial and being found
17
guilty later in part because of this non-prosecution
18
agreement that was worked out behind the other
19
victims' backs.
20
I would agree with that.
THE COURT:
So he accepted the State's deal
21
in part because he knew he had an agreement from the
22
federal government that they weren't going to
23
prosecute.
24
25
MR. EDWARDS: I presume.
I speculate that is
true.
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1
THE COURT:
So you want me now, then, to set
aside the government's agreement with him because
there was no conferring, yet he has already accepted
a plea agreement and is sitting in custody, in part,
in reliance on that agreement.
the agreement in your theory, but how do I-- Mr.
Epstein, in a sense, would then be adversely
affected by my actions when he acted in reliance
upon the agreement. How does that work?
10
I mean, I can undo
MR. EDWARDS: Certainly, we're only asking
11
you to vacate the agreement.
12
point is well taken.
13
point in time his rights may kick in and say, wait,
14
I was relying on this other deal so I wouldn't be
15
prosecuted for these hundreds of other girls that I
16
molested; that I plead guilty over here to the one
17
girl that I will admit to molesting. So maybe I can
18
get to withdraw my plea. But the last thing he wants
19
to do because if he ends up going to trial, I'll be
20
in prison for the rest of his life like any other
21
person who ever did this crime would be.
22
have that argument, I guess, but still wouldn't
23
really work well for him.
24
25
THE COURT:
I understand and your
And I believe that at that
All right.
He could
So you still think I
should set aside the agreement, require the
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1
government to confer?
MR. EDWARDS: Work out a plea negotiation
commensorate with the crimes that he committed and
that are favorable after they confer with the
victims.
course, they can decide on their own that, hey, I
think that the agreement was fair after they have
talked with the victims.
don't know if a reasonable person that would do
And it is within their discretion.
10
that, but it could happen.
11
THE COURT:
That could happen.
Of
Apparently, you are not
12
suggesting that that these person are not
13
reasonable.
14
MR. EDWARDS: I'm suggesting they haven't
15
conferred with the victims and that if they took
16
into consideration what these two in the courtroom
17
have to say, I don't think that we'd be in this same
18
position right now.
19
20
21
THE COURT: They have never spoken to your

client about what happened to them?
MR. EDWARDS: They have spoken to them about
22
what happened.
Maybe not about what the girls
23
wanted to happen as a result of this case, which is
24
part of conferring to decide that these girls wanted
25
money on their own, which is basically what this--
(954) 467-8204
23
'i
this non-prosecution agreement entails that has
language that he'll agree to liability in a civil
case. That's not what these girls-- They want
justice.
ever. The reason they stated they kept this
agreement from the girls and they basically conceded
we didn't tell the girls about this agreement, well,
the reason is because they would have objected and
they wouldn't have been able to sign off on this and
They want him in prison now more than
10
the victims would have had a voice, and we'd still
11
been going through litigation.
12
they tried to prevent, at least in their terms which
13
was the impeachment of these girls at a later trial,
14
is still available to anybody once the civil suits
15
are filed anyway.
The exact problem
,.
16
They have three arguments. One, we didn't
17
have to talk to them.
18
of.
19
talk to them, we were trying to prevent them from
20
being impeached later.
21
victims' rights to confer prior to plea
22
negotiations.
23
this Court to enter an order vacating that previous
24
plea agreement as illegal, ask them to confer with
25
the victims once again or for the first time and
Two, we did talk to them sort
And if you don't buy that, the reason we didn't
None of them trump the
That's why, Your Honor, we would ask
.--"'
(954) 467-8204

24
1
work out a negotiated plea to that accord.
THE COURT:
Well, all you can ask them to do
is confer. I can't ask them to do anything beyond
that.
I mean, it is up to them to negotiate.
MR. EDWARDS: I wouldn't quarrel with that.
THE COURT:
Now, having learned today, I
guess, that the agreement was signed when, in
October?
MR. EDWARDS: October 2007, I heard.
THE COURT: About eight or nine months ago,
10
11
is there any need to rush to a decision in this
12
matter?
13
filed this, I think, on the presumption that the
14
agreement was about to take place and you wanted to
15
be able to confer beforehand and you weren't sure
16
what was going on.
The decision has already been made.
You
.. 11. ,_f
17
And I'm
18
holding the letters that are exhibits that they were
19
writing to my client during the year of 2008 telling
20
her how lengthy of a process this was going to be
21
and be patient.
22
dark about when this agreement was signed.
23
,..
MR. EDWARDS: Precisely, Your Honor.
So, right, I was completely in the
THE COURT:
In view of the fact that this
24
agreement has already been consumated, and you want
25
me to set it aside, as opposed to something that's
(954) 467-8204

25
1
about to occur, would you agree that-- and I have
done this very quickly because of the petition and
your allegation that something was about to happen.
I'm not blaming you.
MR. EDWARDS: I was mistaken.
THE COURT:
I'm not blaming you for doing
that.
In view of what you know now, is there any
need to treat this as an emergency that has to be
decided by tomorrow?
MR. EDWARDS: I can't think of any reason in
10
11
light of what we just heard.
12
THE COURT: Mr. Lee, do you have anything
13
else you wanted to add? Does either side think I
14
need to take evidence about anything?
15
since this is not an emergency anymore, I can
16
probably find a more convenient time to do that.
17
don't have the time today to take evidence.
18
you do believe that I should take evidence on this
19
issue.
If I do,
But if
20
MR. EDWARDS: It may be best if I conferred
21
with the U.S. Attorney's Office on that and we can
22
make a decision whether it is necessary or whether
23
Your Honor deemed it was necessary for you to make a
24
decision.
25
THE COURT:
I want to know what your
(954) 467-8204
26
.--_/
respective positions are because it may be something
in terms of having a complete record, and this is
going to be an issue that's it going to go to the
Eleventh Circuit, may be better to have a complete
record as to what your position is and the
government's is as to what actions were taken.
I don't know if I have enough information, based on
Ms. Villafana's affidavit or I need additional
information.
don't have to do something quickly, we can play it
11
be ear and make this into a more complete record for
12
the court of appeals.

MR. EDWARDS: If there is a time where it is
14
necessary to take evidence, Your Honor is correct in
15
stating that it is not an emergency and it doesn't
16
need to happen today.
17
government on this and if evidence needs to be
18
taken, it be taken at a later date.
19
like there will be any prejudice to any party.
20
21
22
',
And because it is not an emergency, I
10
13
I:
And
And, I will confer with the
It doesn't seem
THE COURT: Mr. Lee, do you have any

thoughts?
You want to consult with Mr. Edwards?
MR. LEE: There may be a couple of factual
23
matters that I need to chat with petitioner's
24
counsel on.
25
to what was communicated to CW and what time, if
If we can reach agreement on those as
-~:.~-/
(954) 467-8204
27
1
they don't dispute that, then we don't think it will
be necessary to have an evidentiary hearing.
we can agree, fine or maybe we can't. We'll talk
about it.
THE COURT:
All right.
But if
So why don't you let
me know if you think an evidentiary hearing is
necessary.
want to enter into or supplement what has already
been presented, you can do that.
10
If there are additional stipulations you
Now, the other issue I want to take up,
11
though, is the government filed its response to the
12
petition under seal.
13
What is in there that at this point needs to be
14
under seal?
15
confidential, privileged, anything that's different
16
from what you hve said here in open court that
17
requires that to be sealed?
18
And so I want to know why.
Is there anything in there that's
MR. LEE: Well, Your Honor, on our motion to
19
seal was based on two reasons.
One that dealt with
20
individuals or minors at the time that the offense
21
occurred.
22
privacy of those individuals.
23
with negotiations with Mr. Epstein which were in the
24
nature of plea negotiations, which we treat as
25
confidential.
So we were attempting to protect the

And also it dealt
Normally, they're not aired out in
(954) 467-8204
28
1
open court. So those were our two reasons.
THE COURT:
But I guess the
letters you attached only related to Mr. Edwards'
client.
MR. LEE: Three of them, yes, Your Honor.
THE COURT:
Are you prepared, Mr. Edwards,
to waive any issues regarding the release of those
documents that relate to your clients?

MR. EDWARDS: Judge, I think it would be
9
10
appropriate to redact the names of the clients as
11
they have done.

THE COURT: I don't think the names are in
12
13
14
,,
All right.
there.
MR. EDWARDS: I think they're redacted.
15
They're blacked out.
I have no problem with
16
releasing those documents.
17
of the deal.
I'm not sure that's part
But if it is--
18
MR. LEE: It is.
19
MR. EDWARDS: Okay.
20
THE COURT:
I'll waive.
You really don't have any
21
objection to those letters that were sent to them
22
being released to the public?
23
MR. EDWARDS: Of course not, Judge.
24
THE COURT:
25
Then what is there about the
plea agreement or the negotiations that is in the
--"'
(954) 467-8204

29
1
response that we really haven't already kind of--
MR. LEE: Your Honor, there was a
confidentiality agreement in the deferral of
prosecution to the State of Florida.
trying to maintain the confidentiality of the
negotiations that occurred since we had discussions
during those negotiations as one of the reasons why
we decided not to tell all of the individuals what
was going on.
10
THE COURT:
So we were
But is that still necessary,
11
that confidentiality or is that kind of moot at this
12
point?
MR. LEE: Well, we would like it sealed.
13
14
Admittedly, what happened today in open court has
15
probably weakened our argument.
16
that.
17
THE COURT:
I don't dispute
In your opinion, anything in
18
particular, any paragraph in the response or in Ms.
19
Villafana's affidavit that you think is particularly
20
troublesome that should remain under seal?
21
MR. LEE: May I have a moment, Your Honor?
22
THE COURT:
23
MR. LEE: Thank you.
Yes.
Your Honor, one aspect
24
of this in the notification letters that were
25
dispatched to individuals which were attached to Ms.
_)'
(954) 467-8204
30
1
Villafana's declaration, there is a citation to a
clause in the agreement that was reached regarding
the damages remedy under 18 USC 2255 that was
subject to the constitutionality agreement, we
believe that should still remain confidential.
THE COURT: But hasn't the fact that this
provision was part of the agreement again been
aired? Is there any secret to it anymore?
MR. LEE: The actual text of it has not been
10
aired. The existence of it has been heard but the
11
actual text has not and we believe it should still
12
remain confidential.
THE COURT:
13
',iJLJ
14
Any other argument on
that issue?
15
MR. LEE: No, Your Honor. Thank you.
16
THE COURT:
17
18
Ms. Villafana wants to speak to
you.
MR. LEE: Your Honor, one item that I'd like
19
to bring to the Court's attention. We had advised
20
Mr. Epstein and his attorneys that if we were to
21
dislose some of the agreement, we would give them
22
advance notice and ability to lodge an objection. We
23
would like an opportunity to do that.
24
THE COURT: All right.
25
.<
Okay.
disclosing.
But you're not
It would be by my order that it would
:_l;; ...l
(954) 467-8204
31
1
.. LJ"
be disclosed.
MR. LEE: Yes, Your Honor.
And we just would
like to register that we believe it should remain
confidential.
THE COURT:
MR. EDWARDS: Your Honor, I don't see any
authority for keeping that under seal.
8
9
All right.
THE COURT:
I agree.
The fact that there is
this preserved right on behalf of the victims to
10
pursue a civil action is already a matter of public
11
record; the exact text of the clause-- I don't see
12
that disclosing the text of the clause when the fact
13
that the clause exists is already a matter of public
14
record.
15
or the government and the letters to the victim that
16
the victim can disclose those letters, they're not
17
under any confidentiality obligation or restriction
18
and they're free to disclose it themselves if they
19
choose to.
20
public necessity to keep the response sealed in view
21
of what we discussed already on the record and the
22
victim's ability to disclose those provisions of
23
their own choosing, if they wish.
24
the public policy that matters filed in court
25
proceedings should be open to the public and sealing
It is not harmful in any way to Mr. Epstein
So I don't see that there is any real
So, in view of
. I_J_)'
(954) 467-8204
32
Jr
should only occur in circumstances that justife the
need to restrict public access, I'm going to deny
the motion to seal the response and allow that to be
viewed.
All right.
So I'll let both of you confer
about whether there lS a need for any additional
evidence to be presented.
the other.
If there isn't and you want to submit some
Let me know one way or
If there is, we'll schedule a hearing.
10
additional stipulated information, do that, and then
11
I'll take care of this in due course.
12
MR. EDWARDS: Thank you, Your Honor.
13
THE COURT:
14
MR. LEE: Thank you, Your Honor.
15
MS. VILLAFANA: Thank you, Your Honor.
16
THE COURT:
17
All right.
You're welcome.
(Proceedings concluded.)
18
19
20
21
I hereby certify that the foregoing is true

and correct to the best of my ability.
22
23
24
25
'
Victoria Aiello, Court Reporter
__) .
(954) 467-8204

DE15 TranscriptOfInitialHearing

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What crimes was Jeffrey Epstein accused of?

What crimes was Jeffrey Epstein accused of?

What was the proposed plea agreement for Epstein?

What was the proposed plea agreement for Epstein?

Case 9:08-cv-80736-KAM Document 15 Entered on FLSD Docket 07/18/2008 Page 1 of 32

THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT CO~,.__________

The above entitled matter came on for

For the Plaintiff:

Bradley Edwards, Esquire

For the Defendant:

Dexter Lee, AUSA

OFFICIAL REPORTING SERVICES, LLC

Case 9:08-cv-80736-KAM Document 15 Entered on FLSD Docket 07/18/2008 Page 2 of 32

(Call to Order of the Court).

THE COURT: Good morning.

This is the case of In Re:

their appearances, please?

May I have counsel state

MR. LEE: Good mornlng, Your Honor.

please the Court, for the United States of America,

we have Maria Villafana, Assistant United States

Attorney and Dexter Lee, Assistant United States

Attorney. And we have seated in the front row FBI

Special Agent Becker Kendall and Jason Richards.

Thank you, Your Honor.

Edwards on behalf of the petitioners. Petitioners

are also in the courtroom today.

styled on her behalf.

THE COURT: Good morning.

here on the petitioner's motion to enforce her

rights as a victim under 18 USC 3771.

received the petition, the government's response and

the victim's reply, which was filed,

So, You want to proceed, counsel?.

It is easier for us to hear you.

OFFICIAL REPORTING SERVICES, LLC

Case 9:08-cv-80736-KAM Document 15 Entered on FLSD Docket 07/18/2008 Page 3 of 32

MR. EDWARDS: Your Honor, as a factual

background, Mr. Epstein is a billionaire that

sexually abused and molested dozens and dozens of

girls between the ages of 13 and 17 years old.

through cooperating victims, that evidence can be

proven. Because of his deviant appetite for young

girls, combined with his extraordinary wealth and

power, he may just be the most dangerous sexual

predator in U.S. history.

This petitioner is one of

the victims and she is in attendance today.

one of Mr. Epstein's victims is also in attendance

she provided-- that Mr. Epstein paid her to provide

him over 50 girls for the purposes of him to

petition are clear.

worked out for Mr. Epstein in light of the offenses

that he committed is clearly unfair to the point

that if anybody looks at the information, it is

She would be able to provide evidence that

Therefore, the undercurrents of the

The plea bargain that was