The Harpur Jazz Ensemble: An in-depth study

Joey Lieber

Mus 304
Professor Burns
30 November 2010
 Lieber 2

“I think any involvement in arts education expands anybody's capacity to understand how
the world works. You develop skills that you don't normally necessarily always develop as just
an academic - not that theres anything wrong with that – I just think that you have a broader
spectrum of understanding of group work, leadership skills... you develop different kinds of
relationships through being a jazz musician. Communication, working with different varieties
of people, bringing people together, trying to get everybody to have a shared picture of what
you have in mind for a tune... or a director trying to get across various skill levels and skill sets
with a band so that it performs at a musical level that's not only just entertaining, but exciting
and intrinsically beneficial to everybody that’s in the band” 1
- Mike Carbone, Director of the Harpur Jazz Ensemble

Introduction to the Harper Jazz Ensemble

When Al Hamme, a young saxophonist from York Pennsylvania, formed the
SUNY Binghamton Harpur Jazz ensemble in 1964, he did so with the goal to bring
“America’s indigenous art form”into the educational system so the music could thrive
and contribute to both the campus, and the surrounding Binghamton community.2 SUNY
Binghamton was barely 20 years old at the time, and the entire music department
consisted of just 5 members.
At first, the jazz program was just a few small innocuous student combos, gaining
members by advertising in the school paper for individuals possibly interested in playing
jazz. The community responded, although interestingly enough they came with French
horns, clarinets, vibraphones, and various odd instruments one would not typically
associate with a jazz group. Nevertheless, Al Hamme pushed forwards and obtained
enough students to finally create the first Harpur Jazz Ensemble in 1968. 3
Not someone to be satisfied with just adequate circumstances, Al pushed for more.
He called up local professionals in the area and asked if they would sit in with the
students. For the next few years the ensemble played a variety of Big Band charts and
perfected their sound with the pros, until in 1978 when he made the decision to make the
band students only. This was the moment when the fuse was lit, and the Harpur Jazz
ensemble took flight. The journey of the Harpur Jazz Ensemble was underway, and years
of progress and development were soon to come.
The Harpur Jazz Ensemble has developed significantly since 1964. Multiple band
leaders have graced the helm of the ensemble, the current one in 2010 being Mike
1 Carbone, Mike, interview by Joey Lieber. November 22, 2010. See Appendix A for transcription of
this interview
2 Hamme, Al. interview by Joey Lieber. November 12, 2010 . See transcription B for transcription of
this interview
3 Hamme, Al. interview by Joey Lieber. November 17, 2010
Carbone, and a countless variety of talented students have graced the stage of this
dynamic ensemble.
Introduction to General Topics of this Research

In order to delve deeper into the different themes and processes that exist in the
development of the Harpur Jazz Ensemble, there are a few questions which need to be
addressed. For one, how does the Harpus Jazz Ensembles growth compare and relate to
the development of jazz education over the years? Within that time, what does the music
of an ensemble of this magnitude involve, specifically in terms of its setting, sound, and
significance, and how does one describe the intrumentation, composition techniques, and
perfomance styles used?4
Discussed within this research will also be the benefits that the students glean
from participating in the Harpur Jazz Ensemble, and how the lives of Al Hamme and
Mike Carbone are relevant and influential in the growth and development of the Harpur
Jazz ensemble

History of Jazz Education in the U.S

When technology was less advanced, and jazz in the United States was roaring in
its beginnings in the 20's, the jazz vocabulary was typically “imparted from mentor to
pupil, or forged through trial and error.”5 Most learning was done on the bandstand, not
in the classroom. The general consensus was that one should learn like the masters did,
by listening to one another's ideas and motives, while learning through repetition, call and
response, and experience. As time progressed however, and the 30's and 40's came
underway, a movement began towards the possible union between jazz music and
academia. Publications began coming out in the 1930's for musicians and students to get
a hold of more harmonic and theoretical materials. Programs like the University of North

4 Shelemay, Kay Kaufman, Soundscapes: Exploring Music in a Changing World (NewYork: WW Norton
Publishing, 2006), xxxvi

5 Nate, Chinen. “Jazz is Alive and Well. In the classroom, anyway.” New York Times. Jan 7, 2007.
(accessed November 16, 2010), 2.
 Lieber 4

Texas and Berklee came into works, paving the way for both colleges and high schools in
the late 1940's.
Through the 50's, 60's, and 70's, more big band arrangements were widely
published as jazz continued to grow in the academic world. It is no coincidence that this
is when the SUNY Binghamton Harpur Jazz Ensemble was put into place by Al Hamme
during this academic jazz boom:
“Through the works of certain scholars and press writers from the mid-1940 through
the late 1950's, jazz scholarship began garnering respect. One distinctive aspect of this was
the intellectualization of jazz. It was realized that jazz possessed its own treatment of
melodic material, harmonic movement, rhythm, and form. Cognizant of this, scholars
formalized the study of jazz based on its unique system of organization and musical
conventions.”6

In conjunction with efforts of the jazz world to become more accessible, different
branches of jazz vocabularies developed that could be grasped by people with different
tastes. At the start of the 2nd World War, Be Bop was developed – a more complex
harmonic and rhythmic improvisational music language based mostly off innovations of
famous players like Charlie Parker, whose lyrical melodic lines on the saxophone heavily
influenced the phrases within this language.7
In the 1950's there came another style called modal jazz. This chromatic,
motivically developed style was advertised and utilized by players like Miles Davis, John
Coltrane, and Herbie Hancock to name a few.8 A more free form style, this was another
aide in creating possible avenues for students to grasp and take under their wing, using
whatever materials and recordings were available to imitate these styles.
Riding the wave that surged in the 50's, the 60's brought along one of the most
groundbreaking moments in jazz education history. Saxophonist Jamey Aebersold
created a series called “How to Play Jazz.”9 This was a tool for young adults to learn
how to play jazz – a set of play along tracks for a soloist to practice their skills and
vocabulary upon. Countless tunes were made into play along tracks, and students all over
the United States were using these to practice scales, theory, creative ideas, chordal ideas,
and other elements of jazz expression.

6 Prouty, E. Kenneth, “The History of jazz education: A critical assesment” Journal of Historical
Research in Music Education (2005), pg 92
7 Prouty (2005), pg 94
8 Prouty (2005), pg 96
9 Chinen, Nate. “Jazz is Alive and Well. In the classroom, anyway.” New York Times. (2007)
 The creation of these tracks has since led to the possibility for students of all ages
to begin to approach jazz. High schools and their big bands have increased in numbers
and are still present in today’s academic world, giving a venue for those who wish to
continue studying jazz in their college years after their high school experience.
Professional jazz musicians came on board to help as well in the 60's and 70's, replacing
the initial more academic professors leading the jazz education revolution. Performers
began to attach themselves to various institutions to share their craft, bringing their
domestic and international touring experience along with them, as well as the lessons
they learned from the relationships they had created in their growth as working
musicians:

One should take note, that it is true one can interpret jazz as having been a aural
tradition, and one that exists within performances and the relationships with other
performers and their given vocabularies. In this sense, academic programs like the
Harpur Jazz Ensemble cannot fully take the place of the learning that exists within
performing out on the road.
Academic institutions can however assist in a jazz musicians growth and practice
curriculum, giving chances to perform under supervision of experienced teachers who
can give valuable feedback. Schools also provide big band and other ensembles that are
difficult to obtain when not in school. A safe haven for a young artist who does not need
to support himself financially while in school, and an organized environment, an
academic institution like the Harpur Jazz Ensemble can be a positive motivator for
growth and progress.

Setting, Sound, Significance, and other Music details of the Ensemble

Setting:

The Harpur Jazz ensemble performs several times a year in various locations on
the SUNY Binghamton campus. They play once in the student union building, and
depending on the time of year, and what the university has planned, they do themed
 Lieber 6

performances as well. An example would be Mardi Gras where the band playa Dixieland
oriented big band charts. The band has played in prior years off campus as well, playing
the stages of restaurants like the “On Q”, (which unfortunately has since closed down), as
well as the Union Health Services center at the train station near downtown
Binghamton.10 Various events like ballroom dance competitions, jazz themed cocktail
hours for faculty, and other showcases of the ensemble has given opportunities for the
Harpur Jazz members to perform their best works.
The audiences typically consist of both locals from the off-campus community, as
well as on campus students. Concert attendance ranges anywhere from 600 to 900
students, depending on the weather and the day of the week. The ratio of students to
locals also depends on the schedule of both demographics – there are sometimes multiple
events scheduled for locals in town that conflict with the Harpur Jazz Ensemble shows, or
similarly exams are scheduled for students that cause them to miss out on their peer's
performances.
Performances typically last 2 hours, although times vary depending on the event.
The performers physical positioning also changes likewise. For bigger events, usually
they perform on a stage, and some of the band members are put on risers, organized in
instrumental groupings. The director usually stands in front to conduct the ensemble.
Microphones are typically used for every section, and when certain members take solos
they usually stand up in front of the section's microphone in order to be clearly heard and
recognized.
Each performer wears an outfit depending on the type of performance. If more
casual, men will where a sports coat and jeans – girls a nice dress, usually of darker
colors. For more upscale events suits with a nice tie, with strict no-jeans policies, and
dark dresses are typical of these stage-oriented performances.

Instrumentation:

Every semester the band auditions (or re-auditions if you are a returning member
trying out again) for the band director, who again currently is Mike Carbone, since Al

10 Carbone, Mike, interview by Joey Lieber. November 22, 2010.

Hamme retired in 1997. When speaking of the instruments being auditioned, the
ensemble director looks for 5 saxophone players, 4 or 5 trumpets, and 4 or 5 trombones.
Occasionally 6 trumpets will be accepted simply because the Harpur Jazz Ensemble does
not consist of only music majors, and some of the materials played by the ensemble are
extremely difficult for brass and may be too challenging. The director therefore prefers
to rotate players in and out of lead parts in the sections to save their lip endurance.
Typically if there are guest artists playing with the group, they bring challenging
professional level charts that are difficult for brass players – hence the reason for often
having 5 or 6 trumpet players in the ensemble. 11
Usually there is only one rhythm section, consisting of drums, bass, sometimes
guitar, and piano. Occasionally Mike Carbone enlists two rhythm sections simply due to
there being enough talented players to fill these spots, and to give other members breaks
so as to not have to learn too much material. Depending on the number of students
auditioning, many have been rejected, specifically from guitar and saxophone spots. The
trumpet and trombone spots are less likely to be refused from the ensemble due to lack of
players available due to the level of skill needed to play the instrument.
Aside from the instruments mentioned, anywhere from 2 to 3 vocalists are
accepted a semester depending on availability, and other eclectic instruments such as the
flute, clarinet, and French horn have often been allowed to enter the ensemble as well
despite there not being what one may consider the “mainstream” of jazz instruments.12

In order to enter the ensemble, there are specific skills required from those
auditioning. The ability to read music is crucial. Improvisation is an added facet;
however it isn't a must-have in terms of getting into the ensemble, unless the student is
attempting to get one of the leading positions in the band. Typically the pianists, lead
tenor saxophonists, lead trombonists, and guitar players are the stronger improvisers.
The second tenors and other brass players do not require the same level of improvisation
as the rhythm section members do, however to be able to read the big band charts, and
being eager to adapt to different styles of music is key to for them to be successful in the

11 Carbone, Mike, interview by Joey Lieber. November 22, 2010.

12 Carbone, Mike, interview by Joey Lieber. November 22, 2010.
 Lieber 8

audition. This eagerness is key, as is enjoying the process of learning the tunes at hand if
they are accepted into the ensemble, whether it be old swing, Latin, salsa, or
contemporary jazz to name a few.

Most of the music the Harpur Jazz ensemble plays is meant to accompany
dancers, whether or not there are any present during performances. The rhythms are
tailored to different forms of dance, whether Latin, swing, funk, or contemporary jazz.
Each style has different types of features. Latin styles have more piano features, where as
the swing and funk arrangements feature the more piercing sound of the lead-oriented
saxophone.
Every big band chart contains different subtleties that challenge the performers in
some way. The big band charts are picked typically in terms of what the brass is capable
of playing in their upper range. The rhythm section skill is also examined, since some
chord arrangements can be fairly complicated, where as the saxophones typically are able
to, considering they made it into the ensemble, read the rhythms and notes required
regardless of level.

The ensemble students enjoy the music they play, and the Harpur Jazz ensemble
“always turns out to be a close knit group of people opposed to a very competitive
thing.”13 Dean Papadopoulos, a Junior Accounting / MIS Major from Setauket, NY, and
the lead tenor saxophone player for the Harpur Jazz Ensemble, comments eloquently in
an excerpt from his interview:
“There also comes the point where one recognizes that this ensemble is mostly not music
majors. There are students like myself who can achieve good grades and practice a lot, while others
are stuck with crazy workloads of other majors and academic skills that do now allot lots of time to
practice. With this in mind comes the idea that someone like myself would never cut it in an
ensemble with a lot of music majors. The fact that it is not that strong in essence gives those
passionate musicians the ability to play at a level they want while still being able to include them in
groups. This is something that cannot be undervalued because at any school with an extremely strong
music program I would not be playing sax nor would I have made the friends and connections I have
today with individuals who share the same passions as I do. That is an experience that cannot be
recreated anywhere else due to the intrinsic nature of music. There are very few people in the world
in which you can have a conversation about how awesome Chris Potter is on his “Live from the
Village Vanguard” recording, or how Michael Brecker transcends every level of sax playing that ever
was. That is what makes this program special to those in it”14

13 Carbone, Mike, interview by Joey Lieber. November 22, 2010.

14 Papadopolous, Dean interview by Joey Lieber. November 22, 2010. See Appendix C for transcription
of this interview
 Learning Opportunities in the Harpur Jazz Ensemble

Leadership, communication, musical development and social development, and

risk taking are some of the main attributes gained by those who have participated in the
Harpur Jazz Ensemble. The students learn to improvise, work with one another on
different big band charts, and maintain strength as a cohesive unit; they build on these
facets through their interpretation of the music and the other musicians.
Improvisation is one of the key elements that make jazz the freedom-based
musical genre it has grown into today. The lead players in the Harpur Jazz Ensemble, as
well as those in the improvisation classes taught my Mike Carbone, spend a significant
portion of their time learning how to improvise melodic lines over different chord
changes and rhythmic patterns. They constantly have to work on responses to the
changing conditions in the music while remaining creative and constantly in sync with
the other performers. The students learn and practice a variety of scales and chordal
concepts in order to develop a vocabulary and build upon the language that is jazz
improvisational music. The patterns and phrases learned are prepared along with the
student's generic instrument-based practice routine necessary to both maintain and build
upon their technical abilities. “Preparation or the development of personal individual
capacity for leadership” is important due to its inclusion of “breaking complex tasks or
ideas into smaller parts...a metacognitive skill that allows patterns to immerge”15 This
skill of pattern recognition and development is crucial and applicable to both music, and
the lives of the students as a whole. Students are able through their practice and
preparation to notice different nuances and changes that eventually contribute to a bigger
picture. Dean Papadapolous comments again in regards to this concept and how it has
reflected in his academic life:
“I can't go into a finance exam saying to myself that I spent hours doing practice problems to
only get one correct. I can't go into an interview believing that great responses will just magically
flow out of my mouth. You have to have goals and in order to reach them you have to put in the time;
there is no shortcut for success. If I have trouble with something musically it's obvious I'll hit the
practice rooms and work it out until I'm confident it won't give me problems anymore. I use this
same principle with any other discipline because you'll never truly succeed or understand what

15 Newton, Paul . "Leadership lessons from jazz improvisation." International Journal of Leadership in
Education 7 (2004): 83-99.
 Lieber 10

you're doing if you don't put the time in to figure it out.”16

Students like Dean in the Harpur Jazz Ensemble seem to echo this mentality, and
work and motivate one another to prepare adequately. They work on their musical
development by learning the theory and history that comes with the music at hand,
opening their minds and ears to new options and paths to take. “Intellect, conscious
choice, and theory allow leaders to identify and pursue new directions, directions that are
not intuitive to the leader, but present themselves through conscious choice and study.”17
By working with one another, they develop the ability to cooperative with other
individuals in a group setting, using leadership skills, knowledge, and ability to work
towards a bigger goal – in this case, the unified sound of the ensemble.
All of these actions require a level of uncertainty, and this can certainly be
daunting for many students. The concept of standing in front of a 500 person audience
and taking a solo while a whole band provides background for you is one that for some is
difficult to grasp. Moments like this one require a level of risk, and the ability to let
oneself put all of their hard work in the practice room out on the stage without full
certainty of the outcome. This risk taking is beneficial to the ensemble members and
their development both as musicians, and as leaders of their generation. “Leaders
without improvisation skills lack the ability to take chances.” The risks that students take
in the Harpur Jazz Ensemble reverberate in their everyday lives, giving them the
confidence to step into the unknown, and in doing so improve and grow towards their
ambitions and goals.

Al Hamme Contributions / Opinions

Born and raised in York Pennslvania, Al Hamme was the epitome of someone
committed to the jazz world. He started several jazz programs – at Mansfeld university,
at Union High School, at Ithaca College, and at SUNY Binghamton. Hamme noticed that
jazz wasn't as popular as classical or rock and roll, so he realized that in order for it to
thrive he had to bringing it into the academic world. He wanted to make jazz music
16 Dean Papadopolous. Interview by Joey Lieber. 11/22/2010. See Appendix C for transcription of this
interview
17 Paul M. Newton, 90
accessible to students and not just music majors. He wanted to create an undergraduate
degree that didn't require a student to become a music major. He mentions that some key
musicians have come through the program who were not music majors – Tony Kadleck ,
Sherrie Maricle, and Pat Hollenbeck to name a few.
Hamme feels that jazz is an essential part of America’s history, and a beneficial to
students due to the skills they can develop:
“The whole idea of the fact of being able to understand form, and harmonic structure, being
able to play in a rhythm, no matter what the background is, being able to play in that rhythm
whether 4/4, ¾, 6/8, etc but still do it so that it swings – or doesn't swing as far as Latin is concerned”

Hamme spent much of his time networking with jazz educators and performers all
over the Binghamton area, as well as the United States as a whole. He was able to hire
some people in residence to teach various instruments to members of the ensemble. In
addition he taught jazz history, and jazz orchestration – making his one-man-band job
even more of an influential part of the jazz program. In essence, Al Hamme was the jazz
program. Perhaps the most incredible part of his efforts was that he would bring in
various musicians to do clinics, all with money out of his own pocket. He was able to
write it off on his income tax, and would donate money to the foundation earmarked to
come back to the jazz program so I could pay for the concerts.
Al Hamme became well known all around the state, adjudicating at many jazz
festivals, including the New York State Summer School of the Arts program. He created
in 1992 a program called Jazz at Harpur which he did for the public schools, in which
him and his colleagues gave graduate credits for those already in possession of a
bachelors degree.
Hamme seemed disappointed however when stating that these programs are no
longer intact – that there is no summer program, and no program reaching out for people
to come to Binghamton for the music program, which starkly contrasts with his previous
efforts before retirement of making an effort to go out and audition students for the
ensemble.

The main issue iterated by Hamme in terms of the arts was Budget:

“Budget is the problem of everything that goes on in college today. Arts departments take
 Lieber 12

the wrap because as sciences grow, as mathematics grow, as they come in with new PHD's who get a
lot of research money from the government or other activities, and they create new programs that
they have, the arts take a hit.”18

He continued in a despaired voice that when he was originally chair, he had “4

musicologists, 3 theorists, a composer in residence, a string quartet in residence, a
woodwind quartet in residence, plus 40 adjunct people to teach things like guitar,
recorder, those kinds of instruments” Al Hamme therefore had a staff of around 50
faculty at the time. The music department now in 2010 has 4 full time people. 19
Aside from low staffing, the other issue Hamme harped on was that there were too
many instances when events on campus conflicted and competed with events going on
downtown. He believes we are stretching ourselves too thin because we have so many
groups having performances, and because of this over clogged schedule there is rarely a
packed audience for a specific show. There is still a passable attendance however, with
just enough money to get by, but it's a close call.
Most pressing however, which seemed to be a theme Al Hamme continuously
came back to, was staffing. Knowing almost “95 percent of the jazz musicians who are
operating today”, Al Hamme has made himself available to get to know a plethora of jazz
professionals in some shape or form. He clarifies however, that his connectivity can only
be achieved by a full time faculty member, not an adjunct member. Despite the
Binghamton program still being strong in performance, it is still “weak in terms of
bringing people into the program and giving them a basic education.”
Al Hamme's statements are important not only due to their factual relevance and
precision, but also because of where they are coming from. These statements are coming
from the man who started touring with bands when he was 13 years old, showed up in
Ithaca at 2 oclock in the morning with a saxophone and a suitcase, and said “I'm going to
spend my life as a musician.” He graduated from Ithaca, got his music education degree
in 3 years, and starting teaching right away. Not once did he look back and doubt his
direction, his ambition, or his goals. He was determined as a performer and as an
academic as well to provide for the community a true link into the jazz world he was so
passionate about. He exemplifies what it means to be that mentor who believes in the

18 Hamme, Al. Interview by Joey Lieber. November 17, 2010

19 Hamme, Al. Interview by Joey Lieber. Noevember 17, 2010
potential of his students, and the goals they can achieve while committing to a musical
part of America’s history
“The important thing is to have students involved in this because the students who come here
are bright – and they're going to be successful. I don't know a student who has left here who is not
successful today – they all find jobs, and they become the members of the boards of the banks, of the
major organizations – they become important and they become facilitators for jazz to continue.”20

Mike Carbone Contributions / opinions

Mike Carbone's is another example of an individual who, like Al Hamme, has

taken his career experience and plunged into the Harpur Jazz Ensemble with a plethora of
ideas, lessons, and techniques. He firmly believes that through studying the arts, one can
develop a broader capacity of how the world works, and the skills that can come out of
studying jazz for students (refer to the quote heading this report.) Along those lines he
feels that the jazz ensemble is always about playing as a cohesive unit, not as individual
shining stars, and emphasizes sectionals and group work to create a unified sound.
“Every leader of a section needs to develop that relationship (of unity) with the
players, and the only way to do that is to work out various intricacies with the group”21
Mike Carbone is in a similar mindset as Al Hamme in his thoughts on adjunct vs
permanent teachers. He is clearly disappointed that we don't have the same budget as
when Al Hamme was at the helm, and with that lack of funds there is not as much of a
dedication to having a full time staff member for the jazz program. With this sort of
adjustment, one could make pretty dramatic adjustments to the jazz program, including
breaking up the band into 2 groups, as well as a 3rd lab band for individuals who didn't
make the cut of the ensemble – a system which existed when Al Hamme was at
Binghamton.
Another point on par with Al Hamme, is that Mike wants a commitment from the
University to have less conflicts with jazz ensemble rehearsals and concerts:

“Over the past 3 years there has been a noticeable change in the number of courses taught at
night, and again because most of the people in the band are not music majors....a lot of these
courses...are in direct conflict with the jazz ensemble rehearsal” 22

20 Hamme, Al. interview by Joey Lieber. November 17, 2010.

21 Carbone, Mike interview by Joey Lieber. November 22, 2010
22 Carbone, Mike interview by Joey Lieber. November 22, 2010
 Lieber 14

Mike Carbone brings a mentality of someone who is eager to be a mentor and a

positive force in the development of the Harpur Jazz Ensemble, and is always going the
extra mile to bring out the best of their talent. He spends time working with other
ensemble directors to trade for music charts that would best fit the ensembles abilities and
tastes, and makes effort to get the band exposed to other artists. He created a small
ensemble consisting of the Harpur Jazz Ensemble Rhythm section which has now played
at an Art Gallery, and the high class Number 5 Restaurant in Binghamton, receiving rave
reviews in the process. Mike's determination to bring the jazz program to its highest
level shows not only in his actions, but in the commitment to his curriculum, whether it
be the jazz history course, jazz improvisation course, or the biggest of them all – The
Harpur Jazz Ensemble. Whether asking his students to observe and take notes on local
working musicians, using Aebersold recordings to demonstrate proper rhythms or
theoretical ideas for improvisation, or taking out records of old big band's to demonstrate
proper playing techniques, Mike has shown never ending commitment to the program,
and a burning desire to continue what Al Hamme created from scratch so many years ago.

Conclusions / Importance of the Ensemble

Through the exploration and research of both the members and leaders of the
Harpur Jazz Ensemble, many significances and developmental conversations have come
to the surface. The development of the students involved has been highlighted, showing
how involvement in the program not only is beneficial on a musical level, but also on a
social and practical one. Empowered by the ensemble leaders, whether Al Hamme in the
past, or Mike Carbone in the present, the students develop the leadership and social skills
required to become forces in the academic community, as well as society as a whole. The
Harpur Jazz ensemble provides the campus, and the greater community, with an accurate,
entertaining, and historically significant part of American culture. The history of the
ensemble embodies the development of jazz education over the past century, and any
improvements, whether in staffing, scheduling, or otherwise within the program are ones
that can be addressed over time. The Harpur Jazz Ensemble provides a vessel for
students to accomplish their goals, while at the same time educating both them and those
who listen to their performances on jazz music, an art form that should certainly not be
soon forgotten.
“Jazz is a rare and valuable national American treasure to which we should devote our
attention, support, and resources to make certain it is preserved, understood, and promulgated.” 23 -
United States Congress

23 Porter, Lewis. "Jazz in American education today." College music symposium (1989) pg 139
 Lieber 16

Bibliography
Carbone, Mike. Interviewed by Joey Lieber 11/22/2010.
Hamme, Al. Interview by Joey Lieber 11/17/2010.
Papadopolous, Dean. Interview by Joey Lieber 11/22/2010. .
Shelemay, Kay Kaufman. Soundscapes: Exploring Music in a Changing World NewYork:
WW Norton Publishing, 2006.
Newton, Paul M. 2004. "Leadership lessons from jazz improvisation." International
Journal of Leadership in Education 7,: 83-99

Chinen, Nate. “Jazz is Alive and Well. In the classroom, anyway.” New York Times.
(2007)

Prouty, Kenneth E. "The history of jazz education: A critical assessment." Journal of

historical research in music education, (2005) pg 9.
 APPENDIX A

Interview with Mike Carbone, band director of the Harpur Jazz Ensemble. Interview
11/22 2010 by Joey Lieber, tranrscribed in full below

Thanks for talking to me mike!

My pleasure

So the first question for you is I want to hear about how you initially became involved in
the jazz program here, in terms of both your involvement as a student, as you started
playing as a student, and has you paved your way to being head of the jazz program.

Well actually I got my involvement here in the university in the early 80's, like 81, 82. Al
Hamme who was the director of jazz studies here used to do the New York Summer
School of the Arts and then the jazz program here which was a 2 week program where
you would have guys like joe Lovano, Dick Oats, Michael Moore on bass, Adam
Neusbam on drums, I mean it was just an incredible group of musicians we would have
here 2 weeks at a time. And through my involvement in doing those summer programs
and being in the workshops and then later on being hired as a saxophone instructor for
one fo the last camps that was here, I got involved in the university. And then being a
teacher in the area, having to get my masters in 5 years, graduating in 1980 from SUNY
Potsdam , I started my masters work here in 1983 – played in the big band for 5
semesters, so 2 and a half years to do my masters because I was teaching full time. Al
Hamme was not the director of the Hurpur jazz ensemble, even though I was doing
projects with him because he ran a big band in town called the Music Unlimited Jazz
orchestra that was a big band that performed concerts venues in and around and outside
of town. Also here at the university was a band that rehearsed here several Monday
nights a month. Through that involvement I got to play with guys like Bob Mintzer, Slam
Stewart, John Faddus. Al Hamme was bringing in big names. So having to get my
masters doing as much work as a I could with the jazz program here with Mike Holober
who was at the helm here because Al Hamme was on sabbatical for a year, and then al
Hamme was chairmen of the department which took him away from his jazz duties which
Mike Holober.
I was lucky enough to be here at the right time when there was a lot of things
going on. We got to meet a lot of great players. Then once I finished my masters in
1985, I graduated in the fall of 1985, I continued close association with Al Hamme
playing in music unlimited, being hired for some of the smaller groups of the Swing
Street Septet, octet, nonet, things that we would put together from time to time. Also I
was very involved through jazz education through my middle school in Johnson City. In
the high school program our goal was to build the jazz program there when I started
teaching there. It got to the point where my middle school band was doing really well,
we’d go to many high school competitions, which was before middle school was really
recognized as a viable category. We would go and compete and my jazz kids would fair
point wise so well that point wise that we would score higher than half of the highs
 Lieber 18

school bands that were there. Over the years I moved to teach in the high school, I was
already teaching at Johnson City, but then I got to work in the high school jazz program.

You were involved in the jazz program at SUNY Potsdam before this in your
undergraduate?

Yeah

How was your experience in the jazz program there?

Well actually I went to Onondaga Community College for 1 year before going to SUNY
Potsdam. I was a flute player up to my junior year in high school. I took a lot of abuse as
a guy flute player. We had a student teacher who came from Ithaca college one semester
and started a jazz ensemble which we did not have. That kind of got me sparked during
that same semester – the Ellington band happened to be playing at the Stanley theater in
Utica New York at the same time. Suddenly they showed up at our high school – we got
to clinic all afternoon with one of the guys in the band. Then that same year my band
director who was not a jazzer – a trombone player though – had a guest artist come in
with a big band – Phil Wilson – which was kind of my first kick. But that was kind of not
a great jazz start – but then I went to Onondaga Community College in Syracuse and got
to work with Joe Riposo jazz saxophonist – the director of jazz at Syracuse University in
1976.
When I went to Onondaga Community College I played a lot by ear. I worked a
lot on reading skills and stuff like that, and played with a lot of albums – mostly was a
rock and roll saxophone player. Also I worked with Bill Harris who’s a trombone player
in the Syracuse area who ran the second big band in Onondaga Community College– so I
actually played in 2 big bands. Then I got into Potsdam and worked with Ray Shiner
who was a saxophonist who turned me on to Count Basie, Mel Lewis, and all that stuff. I
also worked with a guy by the name of Tony Maiello who was the wind ensemble
director there – who was a jazzer as well. So I just played a lot of catch up taking as
many lessons as I possibly could. And then along with a couple of other guys we had
formed a student big band because we wanted to play even more jazz. For two and a half
years I was in two students big bands as well.

How do you compare the jazz programs at both those schools

I would say that the BU jazz program is probably on the performance level a little bit
higher than the community college, which is a 2 year music school

why?

Because It's a lot of guys and girls trying to find their way, figuring out whether or not
they will go to a 4 year music school. Small music school like this. Nowadays - I
haven’t heard them in awhile – but their program has expanded over the years and has
become much more involved and my guess is they’re probably on par with us because it’s
a full time music program
the guys and girls in the Harpur jazz ensemble are probably a level 4 or 5 band.
Occasionally I’ve had a level 6 meaning the NYSSMA level, being the highest, which is
pretty much college level.

Is NYSSMA how you measure the level of college bands?

Not really because level 6 is some of the tougher material. But full university bands are
playing the same stuff that the pro bands are playing – like the Gordon Goodwin Mel
Lewis charts. You have to have some good musicianship to pull stuff off.

Are university bands measured at the same level as college bands?

I don't know if there’s a scale. There’s just a certain point where your playing pro
literature. Or you have guys in the field writing for your ensemble. Or your
commissioning works that were written for pro bands and tailored to specific
arrangements.

What was your major in school?

Music education and saxophone

Having had studied music education, going along the lines that most people here in the
Harper jazz ensemble are not music majors, how do you feel studying jazz benefits
someone who’s not a music major?

Well most of the guys and girls in the band are passionate about what they do. Obviously
it was probably a big part of there high school life. They liked it, and had a good
experience with that and wanted to continue. I think any involvement in arts education
expands anybody’s capacity to understand how the world works. You develop skills that
you don’t normally necessarily always develop as just an academic - not that there’s
anything wrong with that – I just think that you have a broader spectrum of understanding
of group work, leadership skills... you develop different kinds of relationships through
being a jazz musician. Communication, working with different varieties of people,
bringing people together, trying to get everybody to have a shared picture of what you
have in mind for a tune... or a director trying to get across various skill levels and skill
sets with a band so that it performs at a musical level that’s not only just entertaining, but
exciting and intrinsically beneficial to everybody that’s in the band.

How do you feel the Binghamton community has embraced jazz in general in terms of the
campus and the role jazz has had here over the years?

Well I think there’s a lot of support for the jazz program in terms of the local community.
Al Hamme really set a high bar in terms of the performance level of the band in terms of
a concert every semester, various performances on or off campus which we’ve tried to
continue best we can with a limited budget. Back then they had a much larger budget
than we have now. That’s going to change for us when our endowment kicks in. But
 Lieber 20

support for jazz music has ebbed and flowed over the years. I think right now we’re kind
of back in a high time and I think sometimes when u have lower economics you have
club owners more willing to tap into that jazz live music thing because it is a little less
expensive economically, but there is something about jazz music that draws a certain
clientele out opposed to a rock band or a blues band, which are good for the more fine
dining establishments or coffee houses that more enjoy the clientele jazz bring in.

What do you think were some of the major things stopping us from bringing in major
artists or having full time jazz educators at Binghamton?

Well the university has to make a commitment to that. It’s been suggested to them
through various collegiate review committees that the jazz program here has been one of
the music department’s strengths. Why they haven’t committed the dollars to a full time
person is an administrative decision made through the Dean’s office and the chairmen of
the department. But I know that when I came on here al Hamme's position was broken
up into 4 different instructors. So they hired 4 different adjuncts. I took on the ensemble,
the history course, and the improvisation classes which started as one and then expanded
to two. Al Hamme taught an arranging course, orchestration course, and saxophone
studio. Since 5 or 6 years ago the orchestration has been done away with. In other words
we don't have the same budget and theres not a commitment to a full time educator. From
my own standpoint I pushed for that for a numb of years. One of the things I know they'd
be looking for in terms of someone who has full time capacity, is someone who's
published and working on a doctoral track.
I think the program could be expanded into 2 main bands, as well as into a lab
band for those who don't make it into the main 2 ensembles. That existed back then
because Al Hamme was full time – he created the program.

Changing gears, can you tell me quickly – just to give a basis for what an ensemble
consists of – can you tell me what instruments you look for? What spots you're trying to
fill?

The band is auditioned every semester and i'm always looking for 5 sax, 4 or 5 trumpets,
4 or 5 trombones. I've had 6 trumpets in the past only because again this is not a full time
music school, some of the things we do are really labor intensive in terms of the brass
playing so I like to rotate players in the trombone and trumpet sections because when
you're playing 30 to 40 minute gigs...and are playing charts of guest artists, its usually all
pro stuff and the brass players its pretty labor intensive. I usually try to carry 5 and 5 or 5
and 6 trumpets. I sometimes carry 2 complete rhythm sections because the interest was
there and the level of ability was there. There are times I've turned away several guitarist,
bass, and piano players. I've turned away 10 sax players at times. Very rarely do I turn a
a trumpet or trombone player away because the numbers aren't always there. I've taken
vocalists – up to 2 or 3 vocalists a semester when that's available to us. I've taken on
flute players, clarinet players, and occasionally use 1 or 2 french horn players.

What abilities do you look for in the students when you audition them?
Well the ability to read music...improvisation is a desired skill but isn't always necessary
unless you're going for the lead spots in the bands. Or as a piano player, guitarist...etc.
Allot of times the guys and girls that audition for those that make it in those spots are the
better improvisors. To be a second tenor or a number of brass players you don't have to
have the improv skills, but you have to be able to read music and have a willingness to
play and learn various styles from older style to latin and some of the contemporary stuff.
Most of the guys and girls in the bands and guest artists are impressed with the work
ethic the band has. Everyone likes doing what they're doing, and they're cool people
where as I've had guest artists tell me “I've gone to so and so music school where they
pride themselves on their jazz programs and the students there are less than agreeable in
terms of you cant really show them anything.” Our guys here just eat it up! They like the
vibe here

Why do you think this is so meaningful to those kids?

I think they enjoy it. And the Harpur jazz ensemble always turns out to be a close knit
group of people opposed to a very competitive thing. My focus is to get a band that plays
as a unit, not ones that competes with one another. There are always players in the band
who are better or not as good as others in terms of improv but everyone supports each
other. But when we've had someone in the band whos high and mighty because there
better, then there realtionships don't last long in the band and thats not what im all bout.
I've been very blessed and fortunate with guys and girls that are very high level and are
very cool people not unlike yourself. Someone of your stature and level of abilities is
significantly higher than most, and somebody with less than a human spirit could say “ah
I dont want to do this because these guys arent where I am” but its not about that – its
about what you can contribute to the band that gives everyone a great experience.

How do you select the charts that are being played?

I usually throw a big band chart medium to medium hard level on the stand and thats
what we audition on. After auditioning the band I have a good sense of the level of music
we can play. A lot of the music is generally first picked by what the brass can play in
terms of there upper rangers especially. And then it goes to the rhythm section. I can
always get a sax section to pony up to the level of ability of the rhythm section, but its
hard to get the opposite. If the rhythm section is weak, its tough to do intricate
professional level charts.
Where do you get the charts from?

We have a significant library here – I cant begin to tell you how many charts – im willing
to guess its in the range of 2000 that al has built up throughout the years, and i've
supplemented it with charts from guest artists, that i've purchased when the budget is
there. A lot of the charts of the past few years are chart-share that I do with local band
directors.

In what context does the band normally play in in terms of the perf opp's on campus?
 Lieber 22

We generally in the spring play one time over in the student union, or somewhere on
campus. Depending on the time of year and the kinds of events that the university has...
weve done some mardi gras performances where ill pull a bunch of charts or the big band
thats more dixieland. Or this past semester when we did the swing dance thing. I'd like
to get the band off campus – there used to be places that are no longer in existance that
would house a big band unlike the Lost Dog which is a little bit small. There was a place
called On Q I used to take the big band to once a semester. Weve done some events for
some of the UHS which is the United Health Services they from time to time will have
events down at the train station and well just bring the whole band there and play.

How important do you think sectional work is?

Sectional work is important because every section has a leader. Every leader of a section
needs to develop that relationship with the players. The only way you can develop that
relationship of unity but leadership. The only way to do that is to work out various
intricacies with the group. I like to give the guys and girls in the bands say in how they
would like to sound, but if there is no leadership role – especially in the sax or trumpet
section – it usually is pretty evident in terms of how cohesive a section is or not. You can
tell the guys or girls who worked together on a regular basis, it shows.

What are your personal thoughts in terms of where its going, where it is going, and what
could be changed / improved upon?

One of the things I would like to see happen is the university to make a commitment to
having academic courses during the day instead of at night. Over the last 3 years there
has been a noticeable change in the number of courses that are taught at night, and again
because most of the people in the band are not music majors, theyre pre med, pre law,
engineering, etc, a lot of these courses are now being taught at night and they are in direct
conflict with the jazz ensemble rehearsal. I only teach at night because its an adjunct
course. Traditionally the ensemble even years ago has been on tuesday and thursday
nights, even when Al Hamme was here.

Do you think its important in terms of keeping jazz alive, for us to be studying jazz here?

I think jazz education is important. Its a viable study, its a part of american history – to
ignore that is I think negligent in terms of our own antional history and national pride and
where this country came from. Blues and jazz were an integral part of the whole history
of this country – and also the racial history of this country. The troubles that were fought
and advances made for people of color through this music of jazz and how that was
shared with everybody of every color. To create a music that americas own, I mean blues
and jazz came before rock and roll and control, and so it had direct influences on all of
those offshoots. I still feel that rap has been strongly influenced by be bop!
Rhythmically anyway....

I'm glad that the harper jazz program is here. I'm very blessed to have been at the helm
since 1997 doing as my best as an adjunct professor, int erms of my time here, to keep the
program alive and advance it as much as possbile. The program al hamme started many
years ago, i'll say 45 years ago...I just know that guys and girls in the band enjoy it. To
the advent of the technology we have available now...we have a facebook page...There
are lots of guys who go many years back from the band who are still connecting with
each other. Its a great group of people. I know people who have stayed in touch with
people and then have a place to stay no matter where they go. I remember when the
harper jazz program was canned....and the harper choral were canned from the program at
the end of a semester because of budget cuts and within a months time it was
reinstated....why? Because once the word got out, so many letters poured in from allumni
into the presidents office that all hamme called me and said “i dont know what you did,
or how you did it, but tell everyone to stop writing letters they get the point!”

The program as it stands now will hopefully never be cancelled. We received an

endowment last may from Professor Pompi which goes into effect fall of 2011. We well
receive 3 or 4000 dollars a year form that endowment, which is more than double that I
receive now from the music department. Itl allow us to bring in guest artists, more
clinicians to benefit the band and the community as large since our events.

I love the harper jazz ensemble, its a great program, great people. I find that the
humanity of the people that are in this band, and many of them have gone on to be
doctors, lawyers, scientists, and professional people that I would want to have an
association with, whether it be as a surgeon or doctor or lawyer because theyre real
people, and they have a greater understanding of how the world works because the people
who have been in this ensemble have a great relationship skill set.
 Lieber 24

Appendix B
Interview with Al Hamme, now retired band director of the Harpur Jazz
Ensemble. Interview 11/17, 2010 by Joey Lieber, transcribed in full below

Thanks so much for speaking to me. First I'd like to get started by getting to know you
and your background in the jazz community, how you came to start the jazz program in
Binghamton, and what you're experience has been in jazz in the Binghamton community.

I was born and raised in York Pennslvania, and my h.s teacher who I respected,
graduated from Ithaca college...when I was about 13 or 14, I was on the road with the
Richard Mauky orchestra...my dad signed a waver for me to have a guardian..so I was on
the road and I got fired in Iowa..and called my dad and asked what should I do? He said
well, get a bus to chicago, and I'll have a friend meet you there. So I went to chicago and
I saw a guy with a sign that said AL Hamme on it, and this guy turned out to be John
Chicobe who I knew. John Chicobe was one of the famous trumpet player at this time.
This is in the 50's I'm talking about. He had just had an album put out called How Cons
Will Travel. This was a play on words because there was a paladine with a tv show at the
time that said “How Guns Will Travel” and so he was in commision for the Con
company. He was the president of the union in chicago, and later on he went to become
the trumpet teacher at a big school in Texas – a big Jazz school- North texas state.
I went to chicago and he had a job for me – I played on the radio show at that time
which was called the breakfast club – it was a live radio show. I played there for about 6
months. I got real ancy as far as I couldn't play nighttime. In chicago if you had a
daytime gig, you couldnt play nighttime gigs because they were protecting the union
members. I was in this studio at 7:30 in the morning and all that business. I always felt
like there was a guy in the first row with his horn out and his reed wet ready to take my
place. So I thought about my high school experience, although I didn't really have much
have an experience because I went there only when I wasn't working. I was one of those
students who have a high school diploma, but I got it before they had general education
credits to get a diploma. So I got it by taking a test when I was home – but I got it from
the high school. Anyway, I decided to go to Ithaca college and in January of that year –
57 or 58 – I took the bus from chicago to ithaca. I got to ithaca at 2 oclock in the
morning and it 20 degrees below zero. I had all my horns in my suitcase, no taxi service,
so it was sort of one of those experiences. . So I did 3 and a half years at Ithaca college
and got a music education degree. During my senior year I auditioned for the Airmen
and Note and made the band – but then I couldnt passed the physical because I had atopic
ephasima. That turned me for a spin, so right away I decided to look for a music
speaking job. One of the job I interviewed for was in endicott NY which is just west of
here at the other side of the river. I picked the job – I was offered several job that I
auditioned for or interviewd for – I took this job because Acton Oslin
e. So I thought about my high school experience, although I didn't really have much have
an experience because I went there only when I wasn't working. I was one of those
students who have a high school diploma, but I got it before they had general education
credits to get a diploma. So I got it by taking a test when I was home – but I got it from
the high school. Anyway, I decided to go to Ithaca college and in January of that year –
57 or 58 – I took the bus from chicago to ithaca. I got to ithaca at 2 oclock in the
morning and it 20 degrees below zero. I had all my horns in my suitcase, no taxi service,
so it was sort of one of those experiences. So I did 3 and a half years at Ithaca college
and got a music education degree. During my senior year I auditioned for the Airmen
and Note and made the band – but then I couldnt passed the physical because I had atopic
ephasima. So that through me me for a spin, and so I right away I decided to look for a
music teaching job. And one of the jobs I interviewed for was in endicott new york.
Which is just west of here, on the other side of the river. And I picked the job – I was
offered several jobs that I auditioned, or interviewed for - but I took this job because
Acton Osling was the chairmen of the department. Acton Osling had written “Easy Steps
for Band” which was a method I took when I was in elementary school. So I figured a
guy that important in the music education appeal must have a good program. And that
turned out to be a great program. And I taught there from 61until 67. In 1964 I was
contacted by the university to come over for an interview – they wanted to start a jazz
program. And the chairmen of the music deparment was Phil Nelson – and the music
department was about 5 members strong at that point. I came in at 1964 and started the
jazz program. At first it was just combos, we just advertised in school paper as anyone
who wanted to play jazz. So I wrote all the arrangements, I had weird instrumentations,
french horns, clarinets, vibraphones, and not anything youd think of as being a big band.
And in 1968 I finally got enough students that I had the nucleur sort of big band, so then I
asked other musicians in the area who were either profesional musicians or who played
professionally, if they would like to form a big band. And yes they did, so from 1968
until around 1973 or 74 it was a town gown band. It was still called the Harper Jazz
ensemble, you know the background of ahrper college? No? Harper college is the undrag
school – school of arts and sciences – and thats what the school was called in those days
– it was not the state university of new york or suny binghamton or binghamton
university, all those names – it was called Harper college. And thats what was here was
an undergraduate school there was no graduate school at the time.. And so we started
getting some talented students from the new york city area – and umm So I decided in 73
that we would no longer have town people play with us – that they would be a student
band with some faculty help – and Bob Pompei was one of the people who helped us out,
professor of physics, who just recently retired – and last year at the spring concert he and
his wife karen came in and announced the fact that they were going to give 100,000
dollars to the jazz program here at the university. So sewing those seeds back then,
letting him come into the band and so on and so forth, paid of all these years later
because now the Jazz ensemble has 100,000 dollar budget. It probably will be invested
and theyll get the interest off but I don't know those details. So I was the founder of the
harper jazz ensemble, and I directed it for almost 37 years. I had 5 years when I didnt
serve because I was chairmen of the department for five years. And I had 2 different
sebatacles that I didn't serve as director. A local trombonist who is now living in the LA
area whos name – Garrity took over for my first sebatacle. And on the second sebatacle I
had a graduate student here by the name of Dave hedberg who later on went to texas –
who after he graduated here he went to --- community college, hes now retired and living
in the chicago area. He was very succesful in the program there. And then when I
became chairmen, I had a graduate student by the name of Mike Holober, who studied
saxaphone and clarinet with me – so Sheri Merecl was in the band at the same time, Steve
Davis the trombone player was in the band. He took over the band part time to do the
jazz ensemble – but I was still here as a full time person – an advocate for the program.
 Lieber 26

And so there's been 5 different directors, but I founded it and directed it until 2002. I
retired in 1997 and was given a 5 year appointment as a bartle professor – and I did that
because I was promised that I would be on the committee to look for someone to replace
me full time – a full time replacement. In the meantime Mike Carbone had been a
student of mine, had played in the ensemble as a grad student and had studied improv
with me over the years, and it was between him and another person whos name I don't
even remember at this point, but mike got the job because I had the strong
reccomendation. He's been doing it ever since 1997 – Carbone has been the basic
director of the program since 1997. But its a part time adjunct kind of situation, so there's
no advocate for the program, and so even though the bands are still pretty good, infact
some of them have been better than those I've had in the past, um there's no one here
fighting to get talented students here other than the ones who just happen to come in –
and theres no one here who can go out and become leaders in the community of jazz and
get to know the people I got to know over the year. Ii mean I was just real lucky because
I played with slam stewart for 10 years before he died, he died in 87. I wrote all of his
arrangements on his last recording, and through him I got to know a myriad of people and
started working with them. I was lucky also in the fact that in about 1983 or so the
department passed a touring policy that said that we could be gone 6 weeks any semester
as long as we covered our own classes- so I was responsible – and some of those classes I
was able to cover with graduate students at the time – other times I would higher former
students who could come in and teach the classes – so I was able to tour a lot with name
bands during my last years.
After I was chairmen I signed myself to just the jazz program. So I was able to
work tuessday we and thursday so on the weekends I could go to new york and record.
Prior to that I was appointed in 67...oh in 66 I got my graduate degree here. It was time
for me to get a masters, and bob werner was the new wind ensemble conductor here, and
he offered me, I was pres of Music of the Music Educators association in town called the
the punkind music association, and he offered me money that paid for my whole
graduatin program, and gave me the same salary I was working for in the school system.
So I took a sabbatical from the school system and became a graduate assistant. He did
the masters degree in the summer. At graduation Dr William Klenz who was one of his
leading professors here in musicology.
He doctorate work at Eastman.
When I was growing up my father was member of the original Glenn Miller band.
I grew up listening to glen miller, was a bassoon major, and played Saxaphone and flute
as well. Was teaching in school system until 64 until he came here and started teaching
part time. While graduate student he was assistant conductor of harper wind ensemble.

What motivated you to start the jazz program? Why was it necessary?

I had started several jazz programs. I started one at Mansfield university, at Union
High School, and the one at Ithaca college as a student. I started going to Ithaca because
I wanted to play jazz, but at the same time I thought that people were going into music
education should have some kind of jazz background because it eventaully had to come
to the public schools because its americas indigous art form. It was no longer popular
even in the 50's when I went to school it wasnt as popular as classical music or rock n roll
at the time. So we saw the writing on the wall, the fact that it was going to have to be
taken over by the educational system for it to continue to grow and live. That was my
purpose in starting the programs. I was called to binghamton mainly due to this
background.

I was able to maintain over the years the fact that we had a jazz program. I wasn't
able however to get more faculty assigned to me. I had intended that this would be a
undergraduate jazz degree, but it would have been different from the other music majors
because it would not have had necessarily music majors in it. If you look at the jazz
ensemble program over the years weve had, I think there was only 1 2 or 3 people at the
most who were music majors. Some who were not music majors still have gone on to
become major attractions in the field of jazz. Tony Kadleck did some early work here,
Sheri Merickl, Pat Hollenbeck, and later on his brother John Hollenbeck. Lee Muzicker

What do you feel would be lacking now if the jazz program wasnt in existance?

I would like to think that because the jazz program is around, it creates interest in
jazz generally . The Harper Jazz project grew out of the harper jazz ensemble at some
point..except they wanted to run it differently – they wanted to run it as producers rather
than creators in a way. They wanted to bring big names here and so on so forth. When I
was here in the harper jazz ensemble, I did not participate very often in the harper jazz
project. I would go to them for money from time to time to bring guest soloists, but they
also produced their own concerts. There were 4 concerts a year, 2 of which I was in.
They helped me out every once in awhile with money. Now mike does not have control
of his own budget like I did.

Do you feel there is something specific about jazz music that benefits students?

I'd like to think so. The whole idea of idea of the fact of being able to understand form,
and harmonic structure, being able to play in a rhythm, no matter what the background is,
being able to play in that rhythm whether 4/4, 34, 6/8 etc but still do it so that it swings –
or doesnt swing as far as latin is concerned. Theres two types of music – swing music,
and bach and rock. I'd like to think that the jazz ensemble with their presentations is
good with bringing students in. I used to do a jazz history course, which I believe mike is
doing now, and in this class the students had to attend the harper jazz ensemble concerts,
plus 4 other jazz concerts in any semester, and they had to write reviews of them. So
through that exposure and discussions that went along with the class, I was hoping I was
deciminating jazz to students. And I still here from former students, not necessarily those
who were even in the badn or studying music, but those who were in that class who are
now on the boards of directors that are fighting to keep americas indigious music alive.
So we did have an impact on the student body, and I'm hoping that the program still has
such an impact.
From the concerts I've attended, the crowds have been good in recent years. I
didn't tell you that in the situation I went from town gown to student faculty (around
1973) but by 76 the rest of the musicians had come to him in town and said they wanted
to form a big band. Through this ban we performed another band called Music
Unlimited, which is now my company.
 Lieber 28

I would have jazz workshops based on whether or not students were available. I
was here every day of the week practically all day long teaching both classical and jazz
music.

If I look at other schools, like purchase, or boston, or NYU, they have faculty who teach
jazz full time. Here now there is not someone here who teaches specifically jazz piano,
improv, etc. How do you feel about this comparison?

Lets compare this program to the eastman program. The eastman program has
faculty who teach every instrument. They are either full time faculty, or adjunct faculty,
but they're faculty. We here had one person – me – and at first it was just part of my
assignment – but it eventually became my full situation because I was able through being
chair and on committess I gained enough importance in the department that I could assign
my duties and assign extra people to do those things so that I was only doing jazz. So
heres to programs - Eastman had a composers componnent as well as an orchestration
componnent. They had big workshops in the summertime when theyd have major
composers in and teach workshops. Our program once it got established in the 70's, we
didnt have the first concert until 68 remember, where we had jazz workshops going on, or
we had a big band, or I taught jazz orchestration, or I taught jazz history one semester
each. That was as big as the program got because I was the only guy. I was able to hire
some people in residence from time to time – I think I had 3 diff pianists in residence
because I don't play piano – and I couldn't teach anythinga bout piano. Therefore every 5
or 6 years I was able to get somebody here to give keyboard lessons and show people
certain things. In the meantime I bought one of my collegues from ithaca college named
Doug Beardsly. Doug beardsly became the jazz piano teacher in town – he would help
me out when I had problems, I would higher him on an hourly basis to come talk to
students – but I got him here in this town because I offered him a graduates assistanship
to finish his classical piano masters – so I was able to bring him in. As far as bas is
concerned, slam stewart was here – he was not on the faculty but he would come over
and teach students. And after sheryl merickl left and went to NYU, shed come in from
time to time and do clynics and after that I had other pro players I was working in come
in and do clinics....all of this came out of my pocket! I would write it off on my income
tax of course. I would donate money to the foundation earmarked to come back to the
jazz program so I could pay for the concerts.
The impact of this was the fact that I got to be known all around the state – I did
allot of adjudicating at different jazz festivals over the year- school jazz festivals. I was
chosen to be first director of the New York State Summer School of the Arts – a state
sponsored school that was here for 5 years – a month program where I would bring in
famous faculty and I was the director of the program, and wed get all kinds of people to
come in who are now out playing.... Anyway we had a fulltime faculty Mike, Shery,
Tony, Bud ---- would come in as faculty. I did that for 5 years. My budget was 100
thousand dollars for the month long program. It got to the point where the 100 thousand
was no longer available so we moved it up to SPACK and they wanted me to go up as the
director. It took me 3 weeks before program started and after program started to get it
cleaned up and get it ready within the system. And I wasnt about to spend 8 weeks up in
that area so I turned it down. Through those kind of programs I made a lot of friends –
we had everybody here you can name them. Since I left that post in 1992, before that I
had created my own workshop called jazz at harper that I did for the public school
people, and we even ran graduate credits for music educators who already had a
bachelors degree.
The point is there is no summer program here – there is no building program -
there is no “oh I would like to go to the binghamton program” there is no pull, no
advocate for the program. I used to go into the city and audition students for the
program.

Do you feel that the budget is one of the things stopping us from having more adjunct
teachers?

Budget is the problem of everything that goes on in college today. Arts

departments take the wrap because as sciences grow, as mathematics grow, as they come
in with new PHD's who get a lot of research money from the government or other
activities, and they create new programs that they have, the arts take a hit. When I was
chair here. I had 4 musicologists, 3 theorists, a composer in residence, a string quartet in
res, a woodwind quartet in residence plus 40 adjunct people to teach things like guitar,
recorder, those kind of instruments. The music department now has 4 full time people.

What would you say is stopping the teachers from giving them any background in terms
of improvisation?

No, they wouldnt provide that, they might give them improv based off of classical
situations, but I can imagine Tim Perry having his students create their own cadenzas –
which is improvisation. There has been teaching here in the past by Paul Goldstab who
has taught improvisation based in classical terms.

I spoke to Markus Lolly who was teaching a jazz, and he used to teach a course here
which is no longer in operation, correct?

Markus was basically a student here, and when they had money they gave him
some things to do with that. That was never part of the program when I was here. The
only jazz courses we taught was orchestration, and history. Never any theory. Because
the difference between classical theory and jazz theory is very minimal. If you learn
what 145 is in classical, even though they might be different notes, its the same 1 45 in
jazz. When they say 17 they are talking major 7 when we are saying that term in jazz its
the dominant 7. what doesnt get used in classical is the voicings we use in jazz – how
many notes you use in a chord.
Jazz theory was taught by me in the jazz workshops – how you read chord
changes, what you do with your single or multiple line instruments. I guess Mike
Carbone is teaching that too because he has jazz workshops that perform before the
concerts. I used to have 4 improv classes, now I believe there are only 2 or 3. The main
purpose of the workshops was to learn to play on different chord changes, what to do and
not to do. I would have pianists for example, learn to listen to other players and
transcribe some solos of the bebop piano players, and see what the soloists are doing in
their left hand, to improve their improv.
 Lieber 30

Why do you feel jazz is so beneficial to a student body? Personally, I find my

thinking has changed since I started studying jazz. My thinking is more analytical, more
in layers, how things work over one another rather than linearly......

Those are all thought processes that I've gone through over the years of teaching –
which is part and parcel why I wanted americas music to continue to be taught here. The
contribution by Bob pompei will insure that the jazz ensemble will still be here even if
the music department disappears. The money will always be only for the jazz program.
The important thing is to have students involved in this because the students who come
here are bright – and theyre going to be succesful, I dont know a student who has left
here who is not succesful today -they all find jobs, and they become the members of the
lords, of the banks, of the major organizations – they become important and they become
facilitators for jazz to continue. They are the wyntom maralysis.

How important do you feel it is in terms of choosing the tunes and the materials?

I made my decisions based on what I wanted the students to learn that semester. I
knew what the quality of the band, how many students there would be in terms of
returnees, and what I had to work with, so I chose charts that were relevant to the time,
had historical perpsective to them, or were being played by the traveling big bands at the
time or written by the composers who were doing new things in jazz. But basically it was
for the chord structure or for the basic structure of the tune. In other words if we had all
A AB A tunes one semester, and no blues, we would have the blues be a part of the next
semester etc. It was based off of the students I knew were coming back. Picking tunes
for singers always depended on what their ranges were and how good they could sing.

Side note:

Mike has 3 fulltime jobs, he has this, his wedding band, and fulltime job in
johnson city as director of music for the highschool.

How do you feel the jazz program has changed over the years? What did you notice in
the past 37 years? What were some of the biggest changes and developments positive or
negative?
Its not what I noticed, its what I tried to create. It started as a very basic few
member group, and then became a big band, then an all a student band etc. The changes
that happened because of me was the fact that I wanted the program to continue. I
formed this program, it was my baby, I wanted it to continue and to grow. I was always
looking for something new to present to the students. I was involved in the now defunct
IAJE. I was president in the chapter in new york state. It was continuous preparation on
my part in order to continue the program. When I started that jazz workshop program
Jazz in Harper I was able to raise enough money to bring known bands for 5 days – and
they presented a concert every night. I had bobby brookmyer here with his septet. I had
the woody herman band here, 5 days 5 concerts. I had them do music all from the 40,50,
60, 70's, and 80's band as well as their main show. We did allot of evening concerts in the
students center as well.
How condusive do you think the binghamton area is to jazz education and jazz music?

You're talking to the preacher. Most of the jazz that has gone on here I've been
responsible for. Either by financing it, or finding finances for it, or convincing club
owners to do this or that. Mike carbone has taken over in my spot as far as two locations
in town – The Number 5 restaurant and The Lost Dog. I have jams every other week at
the Firehouse Stage, and the other jams that go on I'm responsible for. I fund projects
through my company music unlimited. We used to be called, the big band, Music
Unlimited, but then I made it my company. My company now does all kinds of things – I
suggest you look at the website before you write your paper. Just to see what we do – we
produce records, and help people find funding for projects they have. We have a lot of
jazz fans in this town – when you think about the number of people who are here who
don't go to concerts as a rule – we have more people going to plays here than we have
going to concerts.
The other thing is that there are so many things that go on in this campus that
conflict / compete with things that are going on in town. Well, the other night there was
at least 3 things going on on campus that were conflicting with themselves. At the same
time, there were things going on in town. So, were spreading ourselves too thin because
we have so many presenting organizations – hardly anywhere do we have a full house.
But, we have good attendance – and if you make money, you continue to rpesent it.
When you start losing money is when you start losing people. But right now, although
the non profit organizations are having trouble finding donations, most of them are
keeping even because the profit margin is just above the red line.

When I was applying to music conservatories, there were allot of organizations that exist
like IAJE, like the Grammy Band, and all these different sort of..programs that assisted
kids in the arts to go on and to study..and they seem focused at high school students
getting into college. But what you're in college, it sems like you're kind of dropped off.
Or at least thats what it felt to me. Do you feel there can be more emphasis not only on
getting kids into the jazz program but also guiding them career wise?

Guiding, yes, I think there hould be financial. Financial assistance thats a

different conversations. Allot of things about getting you, or young people into the
college, is the fact that we want to make sure that we have a basic underlying population
thats educated. It's hard nowadays to get people to go to school, financial times are really
tough. A lot of those organizations that are defuct because of the stock market crash, allot
of them used to feed the school in terms of scholarships, incentives, etc. IAJE for
instance is gone, and not there. We have no association of jazz educators in this country
now.

I know personally probably 95 percent of the jazz musicians who are operating
today – theyll call me by my first name – and its because I made myself available to get
to know them in some way. Thats what a full time person can do, that an adjunct person
cant do. And so it is a fact that the program is still strong in that performance is
concerned, but weak in terms of bringing people into the program and giving them a
 Lieber 32

basic education.

Appendix C
 Interview with Dean Papadolopous, band member of the Harpur Jazz Ensemble.
interviewewed 11/22 2010 by Joey Lieber, transcribed in full below

What are your experiences, trials, and tribulations in the Jazz ensemble? How has it
benefitted you, and how do you think it benefits our school?

Dean Papadopoulos Junior Accounting/MIS Major from Setauket, NY

It is an odd experience coming from a non-musical background and trying to (musically)

hang with people who've had much more experience than I had previously. I came in
from playing is HS jazz ensemble, somehow managing to be a bari sax player with no
improvisational education or skills for 2 years in the top jazz ensemble. I had always
listened to jazz, but had no formal education.

I tried auditioning my first year at Binghamton, which turned out to be a life changing
experience. I always thought I had skills, but after hearing two tenor players who were
basically professionals, I quickly learned I was awful. I spent the next year practicing as
much as I could and trying to learn the ins and outs of jazz--or at least those I thought
were important.

I made the jazz ensemble my sophomore year and thought I had some idea of what went
on with jazz improvisation. I learned again, soon enough, that I had no idea. The teaching
aspect of it was different from what I expected. A friend of mine at Trinity College in
Conn. received private lessons on sax from a professional sax player and learned all his
improvisation from him as well in a private setting. Here at Binghamton I receive private
lessons from a strictly classical sax player and receive improv instruction in a group
setting where people are not all on the same level.

It is obviously more helpful than not, however there comes a point where one person's
work is hindered by those around them. Coming from someone who has always never
been good enough in HS settings, to someone who has worked hard in college to get
where I am now (which in my opinion still has more to go) it is frustrating to know that I
have no opportunities to advance with personal instruction from an individual standpoint
through the university. The university has a storied jazz program and somehow manages
to have good players year in and year out, however most of that comes from what people
did in HS and the few opportunities they have in college (drum professor has jazz
experience and one or two others might be able to instruct students in jazz idioms).

There also comes the point where one recognizes that this ensemble is mostly not music
majors. There are students like myself who can achieve good grades and practice a lot,
while others are stuck with the crazy workloads of other majors and academic skills that
do not allow lots of time to practice. With this in mind comes the idea that someone like
myself would never cut it in an ensemble with a lot of music majors. The fact that it is not
that strong in essence gives those passionate musicians the ability to play at a level they
want while still being able to include them in groups. This is something that cannot be
 Lieber 34

undervalued because at any school with an extremely strong music program I would not
be playing sax, nor would I have made the friends and connections I have today with
individuals who share the same passions as I do. That is an experience that cannot be
recreated anywhere else due to the intrinsic nature of music. There are very few people in
this world in which you can have a conversation about how awesome chris potter is on
his live from the village vanguard recording, or how michael brecker transcends every
level of sax playing that ever was. That is what makes this program special to those in it.

The ensemble allows me to gain skills that transfer over to all areas of playing. The ability to play
in a section is an extremely important skill that could easily be overlooked. As a section, it is
ideal that we all think and play together in efforts to try and sound like one; a quite difficult task
you may not find in other playing situations. In addition to that, I've gained the ability to interpret
what is written in the different styles and apply those concepts to all other pieces of music I
encounter. The idea of swung eighth notes in contrast to the importance of space and articulation
in latin style pieces is only one of the examples of many interpretive skills I have learned from
my time in the ensemble."

How do you find practicing and studying jazz has effected your everyday life?

"As a musician, practice is second nature to you. The saying of how you'll never truly
improve unless you practice 'until you can't get it wrong', not 'until you get it right',
expands into every aspect of life but is extremely important when it comes to academics.
I can't go into a finance exam saying to myself that i spent hours doing practice problems
to only get one correct. I can't go into an interview believing that great responses will just
magically flow out of my mouth. You have to have goals and in order to reach them you
have to put in the time; there is no shortcut for success. If I have trouble with something
musically it's obvious I'll hit the practice rooms and work it out until I'm confident it
won't give me problems anymore. I use this same principle with any other discipline
because you'll never truly succeed or understand what you're doing if you don't put the
time in to figure it out. Musical knowledge turns into instantaneous responses in which
you barely think before it comes out through your instrument. In order to have that
proficiency in accounting I can't just sit back and hope it comes out when I have an exam.
I have to live, breathe, eat, and sleep accounting before I can remotely consider that my
knowledge will be up to the standards I expect prior to exams. Music has taught me that
in order to see results you must put in the work first."