Z-Value - iSixSigma How Is Z-Value Relates With Six-Sigma

11/30/2018 Z-value – iSixSigma
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Z-VALUE
This topic contains 50 replies, has 13 voices, and was last updated by shawn
13 years, 4 months ago.
Viewing 51 posts - 1 through 51 (of 51 total)
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https://www.isixsigma.com/topic/z-value/ 1/25
POSTS

June 6, 2005 at 4:59 am #39587

How is Z- SEE ALSO
value
Newsletters
1 Lean Six Sigma Courses
relates with
six-sigma.
grover 2 Six Sigma Salary Payscale
Thanks for
inputs!!
3 Six Sigma Online Courses
Regards
4 Six Sigma Certification Eligibility
5 Six Sigma Tutorial
June 6, 2005 at 6:18 am #120723
Z value is the process capability, i.e the number of SIGMA

values that can fit in between the LSL and the USL.
Priya Sahu
June 6, 2005 at 7:00 am #120725
If your Z value is 4.5, then your process capability is

4.5sigma.
magesh
June 6, 2005 at 7:04 am #120728
Hi,
I thought it was the number of sigma between the
average and the closest specification limit….
Franck
Angler42 Jobs  News  Store  
Newsletters
June 6, 2005 at 9:23 am #120733
Z value is the number of standard deviation for a

particular data point from its mean. Z = x – mean /
standard deviation . For a standard normal distrinbution
you get a z table to calculate the probality i.e to find the
Whitehurst
area under the standard normal curve.
Hope this helps . Robert Butler if you read this thread
just correct me if I am wrong you are the guru.
June 6, 2005 at 2:46 pm #120750
Joe is the only one who is right so

far.https://www.isixsigma.com/dictionary/Z-
363.htmBTDT
BTDT
June 6, 2005 at 3:30 pm #120755
Also don’t forget that common practice is to add 1.5 to

the Z value to get Sigma Level. I didn’t say the right way,
merely convention.
Darth
June 6, 2005 at 3:38 pm #120759

June 6, 2005 at 3:38 pm #120759
Z Score Basically, it tells us how many standard

deviations a specific data value is away from the mean. It
can be computed for each data value as follows: x-x-bar /
s
Utah123
Newsletters
Z score the number of s the data value falls above (+ Z)

or below (-Z) the mean.
Z scores are highly influenced by outliers, as it is
calculated from the mean and std dev.
So if a data value has a Z score of 1.5, it is l.5 s above (b/c
its positive) the mean.Z scores are measured in std dev
and show us a data point s position relative to the
mean. There are is also Z bench, a process capablity
index, which is commonly used instead of or in
conjunction with Cpk, and is essentially the same
formula, replacing the value of the data point with the
USL/LSL value: USL or LSLl – xbar / std dev (use the min
of the two to represent the process). This is my
understanding, but you’ll want to verify it, as you will
with most info recieved here…although BTDT has always
given me reliable info. Good luck.
June 7, 2005 at 5:19 am #120798
So, does it mean that when we are saying six sigma, we

are talking about z=6.0??. I thought that sigma is basically
a standard deviation (sigma) of the data points of the
normal curve (meaning 1 sigma is one times of sigma
grover
from the mean value, 2 sigma is two times of sigma from
the mean…..etc )and from this respect we talk about six
sigma….. not z-value ….. please correct me if i am wrong.
Regards,
Regards
June 7, 2005 at 5:25 am #120799
Here is the answer

Explore  whichEvents
was mentioned
 in previous
Forum 
thread.
A Z value is a data point’s position between the mean and
Jobs  as measured
another location News  by theStore
number
 of standard 
MAK
deviations. Z is a universal measurement because it can
be applied to any unit of measure. Z is a measure of
Newsletters
process capability and corresponds to the process sigma
value that is reported by the businesses. For example, a 3
sigma process means that three standard deviations lie
between the mean and the nearest specification limit.
Three is the Z value.
Regards,
June 7, 2005 at 2:27 pm #120834
I think that you and the other guy need to do a little

research on this site regarding the 1.5 shift. As I have
already mentioned, it is convention that sigma level be
calculated by adding 1.5 to the Z value to get Sigma
Darth
Level. A Z of 4.5 will equate to a Sigma Level of 6, as in
“Six Sigma”. The rationale behind the shift can be found
in numerous threads on this site.
June 7, 2005 at 3:34 pm #120842
It is confusing….The key point to remember is you are

simply trying to determine the current capability of your
process. This requries some metric that will allow you
to compare the actual error in your process to the
Utah123
amount of error the customer will allow. Hence the need
for the process standard deviation and customer
tolerances.

There are many process capability metrics that you can
use: DPMO, PPM, Cpk, Z score, sigma, Yield, DPU, etc.
They are based an varyious assumptions and inputs, but
tell you essentially the same thing: How well are we
doing relative to our customer expectations? Also, most
g p ,
are roughly convertable to one another: A Cpk of 1.33
= Z scoreExplore Events
of 4.0 =sigma level 
of 4.0 Forum
= Yield 
of 95% =
DPMO. As for the Z score:

Jobs  News  Store 
The Z value, essentially, is the number of standard 
deviations between the mean and some number. When
this number is a control limit, it becomes a capability
Newsletters
metric. It is synonymous with the sigma level: 6 sigma
levels are equal to a Z score of 6. It is further explained
by the equation:

ZLT = ZST – 1.5 SHIFT or ZST = ZLT + 1.5 SHIFT

ZST a measure of process capability when all special

cause is removed and the process is properly centered.
It is how processes are compared to one another. It can
be converted into ppm or other capability metrics using
the appropriate conversion table.
ZLT is the long-term probability of producing a defect
with the current process. It is the difference between the
short-term Z and the Z shift. This is what your customer
is experiencing.
1.5 shift is the average of the process shift over time. It is
based on prior data gathered by Motorola on their
processes and is often used as the standard in
manufacturing. Although using the 1.5 shift is common, it
is not universally accepted as best practice.
The above info is correct to the best of my knowledge,
but you will want to validate before acting on it. Hope it
helps.
June 7, 2005 at 3:41 pm #120846
Several incorrect statements in your post. Amoung them

Cpk of 1.33 is not a z score of 4, a Cp of 1.33 is,
There is no data from Motorola – no one has data, it was
simply an observation by Bill Smith.
Mikel
I know of anyone with real data that uses a shift of 1.5. If
you have real data and still use 1.5, you did not learn
much in BB training.
June 7, 2005 at 5:44 pm #120853

“I know of anyone with real data that uses a shift of 1.5. If
you haveNewsletters
real data and still use 1.5, you did not learn
much in BB training.”
Change “anyone” to “no one” and you make sense. If you
Darth
have real data you should know whether the “shift”
occurs or not. The 1.5 is a substitute for real knowledge
about the process.
June 7, 2005 at 6:44 pm #120858
Stan:There is some data on the Zst and Zlt in Harry’s

clipart books, but they do not support the 1.5 shift. The
graph on p 9.17 of the ‘White book’ shows a curve. The
data is purported as being from ABB. A second graph on
BTDT
p. 9.3 (Black book) and repeated on p. 9.16 (White book)
is fit using a linear relationship and shows an intercept of
0.75.I never did understand why the ‘derivation’ didn’t fit
his own data.BTDT
June 7, 2005 at 6:51 pm #120859
OH, NO, don’t get Stan started. You have to read Harry’s
ebook (aptly named Mysteries of Six Sigma) whereby he
mathematically…I mean magically, comes up with his
1.47 shift…rounded to 1.5.
Darth
June 7, 2005 at 8:24 pm #120864
My friend….
Why are you saying Zst = 3*Cp and not Zst=3*Cpk. What
nuance are you emphasizing?

e

June 8, 2005 at 5:06 am Newsletters #120888
picky, picky, picky
Mikel
June 8, 2005 at 5:08 am #120889
I agree that there are numbers on those pages – that

doesn’t make them data.
Mikel
June 8, 2005 at 5:12 am #120890
Do you understan the difference between Cp and Cpk?
Mikel
June 8, 2005 at 6:07 am #120891
Stan and Darth

Stan and Darth,
Below i am summarizing the discussion which i saw
related to my questions. I learned a lot from this
discussion. Thanks all of you. Please correct me if i am
grover
wrong in summurizing the subject.
“A Z value is a data point’s position between the mean
and another location as measured by the number of
standardNewsletters
deviations. Z is a universal measurement
because it can be applied to any unit of measure. Z is a
measure of process capability and corresponds to the
process sigma value that is reported by the businesses.
For example, a 3 sigma process means that three
standard deviations lie between the mean and the
nearest specification limit. Three is the Z value. But due
to variation in the process we report this sigma level as Z-
shortterm and Z-longterm. In case of short-term we will
add 1.5 to the original value which we took from normal
table. If we talk about long-term, then we will subtract
1.5 from the value we got from the normal table. For
example as you said darth that A Z of 4.5 will equate to a
Sigma Level of 6, as in “Six Sigma”, in case of short-term z-
value.
So, it means that whenever i calculate z-value from the
table i have to decide whether it is long-term or short
term and get the final z-value accordingly and report this
value as the sigma level . Correct…………..????
Best Regards

June 8, 2005 at 7:27 am #120895
Stan / Darth correct me if I am wrong

Zst = 3 Cp ok but what about Zst = 3Cpk many
organizations believes it even some of the materials in
GE suggests it but theres is no satistical validation about
Whitehurst
it but many industry uses the formula Zst = 3 Cpk as their
short term z value.
Any comments ….

J 8 2005 t 10 46
https://www.isixsigma.com/topic/z-value/
#120903 9/25
June 8, 2005 at 10:46 am #120903
Yes – they are wrong.

Mikel
Newsletters
June 8, 2005 at 10:58 am #120904
Stan then how does one calulate the Zst for one sided
specification where we dont get the Cp

Whitehurst
June 8, 2005 at 1:00 pm #120911
Naveen, you were doing OK until the very end. Typically,

the Z value is considered long term and thus you add the
1.5 to estimate the short term. Short term variation will
likely be lower than long term and thus the sigma level
Darth
for short term will be higher than for long term. The
difference was estimated at about 1.5 and that has
become the convention. But, as Stan pointed out, if you
have real data you can estimate the true shift if there is
any and not be bound by the 1.5 convention which might
be misleading.
June 8, 2005 at 1:29 pm #120917
Stan, the reason I ask about Cpk vs Cp is

because…..looking at the formula for Z = x – Xbar/s is 3
times the Cpk when x is the USL or LSL.
Zu should equal CpkU*3 and Zl = CpkL*3. Then to get an

e
overall Z,Explore
you’d have
 to combine
Events the overall ppm
Forum
defective to get the Z.
Where am I wrong my friend…..
June 8, 2005 at 3:37 pm Newsletters #120938
Dr. H never did repond to my queries about the

difference between his own data and the
derivation.Maybe he doesn’t listen to queries.:) BTDT
BTDT
June 8, 2005 at 9:19 pm #120973
The question you should be asking is 1) where am I right,

and 2) can I get a refund for my training?
Mikel
June 9, 2005 at 12:33 am #120979
Short term variation will likely be lower than long term?

Give me an example where it’s not a sure thing.
On a more positive note, I’m glad to see you have time off
from your cush LSS job to post lately. I’ll start paying
Mikel
more attention if you have time to play again.
June 9, 2005 at 1:35 am #120983
You got me, I was being wishy washy for some reason.
Not like me. Of course
Explore  st can’t
Events be more than lt. They
Forum  can
be equal but more often than not, st will be less than lt.
As for all my apparent free time….summer vacation
Darth
schedules areleaving aNews
Jobs few more
 open coaching
Store  slots 
than usual. That looks like it will continue until after the
4th…of July that is. You seem to be paying plenty of
attention, even picking up my cute quip about being a
Newsletters
know it all.
June 10, 2005 at 5:23 am #121142
Darth, actually i was busy to see your last post yesterday

but when i saw your post i was also thinking about your
remarks about short-term variation but when i saw stan’s
post, it was clear to me. Well, its all clear to me now.
grover
Darth/Stan, i am working in a Chemical lab and have a
statistical data i want to share with you guys. I am making
my case and will come back very soon. I would appreciate
your help in this regard.
Warmest Regards
June 12, 2005 at 9:05 am #121248
Stan/Darth
Now, i have made case. I have some confusion in it which i
want to share with both of you. I work in a chemical lab
where we get samples of iron ore and chrome ore from
grover
our customers. They want us to find out the iron %,
Chrome % and Alumina % from both ores and report it to
them so that they can see whether the lot from which
sample is taken is acceptable or not. We report them the
same. Now, in order to analyse the %es of the above, we
have some standard procedures, like ISO procedures to
find % of iron, chrome from iron or chrome ores. We
normally dont exactly follow those procedures as such
and make some ammendments in it. So, our procedures
are basically not standard procedures, these are rather
non-standard. In order to make sure that our non-
standard procedure is ok or not, we basically validate our

Explore
procedures through
 Events 
inter-laboratory Forum 
comparision
scheme. One of the validation schemes is ROUN ROBIN.
What we normally do is that same sample is sent to
Jobs  labs, News
several different wherethey doStore 
that same test, for 
example finding iron in iron ore, according to their own
procedures and then send their results to ROUND
Newsletters
ROBIN. They normally compile all the test results and
send the summary to all related labs, that participated in
ROUND ROBIN activity. Here is one summary:
Lab Mean Lab Std. Dev Std Z-score
Iron in iron ore 62.55 0.0 1.23
Silica in iron ore 4.05 0.0 -0.87
We normally provide our four test values (for four
replicate tests) to them from which they calculate Std.
dev and hence z-score. It is apparent that all our four
values are same and hence got Std. dev as zero.
Calculation of z-score is explained below.
Now with this data they provide the data of the Group
who participated in the scheme, it is like this:
Group Mean Group Std. Dev
Iron in iron ore 62.26 0.236
Silica in iron ore 4.20 0.178
Now, in order to calculate Z-score, they take our test
value (62.55) and group mean value (62.26) divided by
group std. dev (0.236). the value of Z-score calculated is
1.23. Similarly they calculate the value for Silica
and same for the other tests.
They then draw a normal curve ( i dont know how
to incorporate this curve on this forum, anyway i am
gonna explain it), where center value is shown X-bar and
mark z-value as 1,2,3,-1,-2,-3 on both sides of the curve.
Then they present your calculated z-value on the graph
so that lab can see where it stands. Whenever the z-value
comes above 3 or -3, they highlighted the value and call it
a outlier. whenever any tests results comes to us as an
outlier, we then investigate what is the problem in our
test method or any other potential problem.
Now, in my very initial thread i asked that whether z-
vlaue define sigma level and you said yes it is a sigma
level after adding or subtracting 1.5 from the original z-
vlaue.What i understood before that z-vlaue basically
tells you how much centered your value is with respect to
the average value of the normal distribution For 13/25
the average value of the normal distribution. For
example, z-value of 1.23 telling me that i am coming
under 37.055% of the of the area on both sides in normal
distribution table or cumulative 74.11% of the area of
normal distribution.What would be my sigma standing in
this case??. How would i decide whether should i
announce my sigma as long or short-term??
Regards, Newsletters
June 13, 2005 at 10:55 am #121280
Hello Stan & Darth, I am waiting for your reply. If anyone

else has some remarks about my query, please speakup.
Regards
grover
June 13, 2005 at 11:55 am #121286
Naveen ,
you always report Zst . 3.4 defects / million oppor. is 6
sigma which is Zst and its Zlt will be 4.5 defects.Going by
the case what you are saying it seems you are doing some
j
kind of reproducibility check and giving a z value to it
makes no sense to me.
May be Darth , stan robert or btdt can throw some light
on it !!
June 13, 2005 at 2:42 pm #121294
J:I never use 3.4 defects per million as 6 sigma. I calculate

the Zshift using data and don’t assume anything.Zlt is the
process capability using all your data, USL and LSL.Zst is
the process capability using your data in small, centered,
BTDT
time limited subgroups using the same USL and
LSL.Zshift is the difference between the two numbers.
Zshift = Zst – Zlt.The shift value is used as an estimate of

the process capability
Explore  when the process
Events  is controlled.
Forum 
There are no assumptions when you use continuous
data.BTDT
June 13, 2005 at 7:44 pm #121318

Newsletters
J, you are right that its really a reproducibility check. but

in round robin excercise, they always show your result in
perspective of others and Z-value is one of the tools they
use to do it. For example, as i said, if the Z-value of your
grover
lab comes more than 3.0 then they call the lab result as
an outlier and if comes under 1.0, it means that your
result is in-line with the other labs.
Regards

June 14, 2005 at 12:51 pm #121371
No answer from anyone!! we talk too much but dont

prove it!!
grover
June 14, 2005 at 3:02 pm #121382
Are you asking that we prove we talk too much?Zlt is

calculated from your continuous data, Zst is calculated
from your continuous data. The Zshift is the difference
between the two. Don’t start adding 1.5 to things: you
BTDT
know both
numbers.https://www.isixsigma.com/forum/showmessage.asp?
messageID=72478BTDT
June 14, 2005 at 11:23 pm #121412

Naveen, Jobs
therehas been considerable
News  traffic
Store  on this 
thread. At some point, interest is lost and that is what
has likely happened. No one really has the time nor
inclination to get into great depth for a long period of
Newsletters
Darth
time. Although it might appear lots of time is spent on
silly threads, they are usually quick and require little
thinking. They are good for some stress relief. Short
posts which only require a quick response will elicit
greater response than long indepth questions. Possibly
you can take this offline with someone willing to spend
the time helping. Personally, I think the thread is dead.
June 14, 2005 at 11:26 pm #121413
Speak for yourself, Mr.Darkside. I personally research

and spend hours thinking about each and everyone of my
posts.
Mikel
June 14, 2005 at 11:33 pm #121415
Ah, now I recall some of the more eloquent posts:

“NO”
“You don’t know what you are talking about”
“You’re an idiot”
Darth
“Reigle, you’re an idiot”
“Contact me at stanmikel@aol.com and I will sell you (fill
in the blank)…….”
“Jack and Coke is what you should be using”
“Dr. Harry is an idiot”
Maybe we should record a CD of Stan’s famous and
helpful posts. Shucks why waste a good CD for only 57kb
of material.

June 15, 2005 at 1:11 am Jobs  News  Store  #121419 
Newsletters
But it takes me at least an hour for each of them.
Mikel
June 15, 2005 at 1:28 am #121421
Darth, sing with me (to the tune of the famous Curtis

Mayfield hit – The theme to Superfly – Freddie’s Dead) —
Hey, hey…Love, love…Yeah, yeah…Uh huh…This thread
is dead.That’s what I said…Let Naveen rap a plan; ‘said
Mikel
he’d send him home.But his hope was a dope named
Reigle, and he should have known.It’s hard to
understand; there was intelligence in this man.I’m sure all
would agree, that his misery,was his z score and
things.Now this thread is dead.That’s what I said…
Everybody’s misused Naveen; made fun and abused
him.Another BB playin’; pushin’ meaningless z scores for
the man.A terrible blow, but that’s how it go…Naveen’s
on the corner now… if you wanna be a BB, wow…
Remember, this thread is dead…We’re all built up with
progress,but sometimes I must confess,we can deal with
rockets and dreams,but reality… what does it mean? Ain’t
nothing said.’cause this thread is dead.Hey, hey…Love,
love…Hey, hey…Yeah, yeah…Huh huh…Love, love…Yeah,
yeah…Huh huh…Yeah, yeah…
June 15, 2005 at 1:32 am #121423
Sorry, pretty sick I know, but I couldn’t resist. You know

how something just sticks in your head?

Explore
Coming next Reigleman
 Events
to the tune Forum also
 Pusherman  from
the late great Curtis Mayfield.
Mikel
June 15, 2005 at 2:18 am Newsletters #121428
That is probably your longest and most thought out post

ever…congrats on a great one. Yeah Yeah
Darth
June 15, 2005 at 8:08 am #121432
We are going nowhere!! very dissappointed!!
grover
June 15, 2005 at 8:10 am #121434
Gabriel, please help me in my question if you have time to

spare for me.
grover
June 15, 2005 at 10:57 am #121438
N 18/25
Naveen,
Your use of z values for your lab round robins is basically
sound although I wonder why you are making it so hard.
A round robin is just a repeatability study. Plug what you
Mikel
are doingJobs
intoa GR&R,News
follow

the rules of GR&R
Store 
(they 
are basically sound).
MSA is an established method, follow either MSA from
AIAG or MSE from Wheeler. Either is okay, just don’t fall
Newsletters
for the BS from Wheeler that his method is better, it isn’t.
June 15, 2005 at 11:15 am #121440
Naveen,
You are depending on others brains to think for you. You
have all you need to figure it out. Use your own brain, not
mine or Darth’s (his is a wrinkly old South Florida retiree
Mikel
type brain anyway – yuk!).
Very disappointed!!
June 15, 2005 at 2:07 pm #121458
Stan, my question was very simple, and i am not making it

too hard. its simple. What i am asking is, i have lot of data
of a kind i showed on the thread (at least two year data).
What i was asking is, ” is there anyway that i can calculate
grover
the sigma value of my lab”. I know people do it with the
help of DMAIC methodology. I read that one also. It talk
about DPMO which talk about opportunities. How do
i assign opportunities in my case. Isnt it a very subjective
approach…… what do you think.
Also, just for my better understanding, Round Robin is a
reproducibility exercise, not repeatability. Correct me if i
am wrong.
July 7, 2005 at 9:26 pm #122730
z = x-xbar/s
z = x xbar/s
A z score is a transformation of a data point into a
unitless value of distance relative to the mean.
The z-score is a number of standard deviations distance
shawn
from the mean.
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11/30/2018 Z-value – iSixSigma

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4 Six Sigma Certification Eligibility

5 Six Sigma Tutorial

June 6, 2005 at 6:18 am #120723

Z value is the process capability, i.e the number of SIGMA

June 6, 2005 at 7:00 am #120725

If your Z value is 4.5, then your process capability is

June 6, 2005 at 7:04 am #120728

June 6, 2005 at 9:23 am #120733

Z value is the number of standard deviation for a

June 6, 2005 at 2:46 pm #120750

Joe is the only one who is right so

June 6, 2005 at 3:30 pm #120755

Also don’t forget that common practice is to add 1.5 to

June 6, 2005 at 3:38 pm #120759

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Z Score Basically, it tells us how many standard

Z score the number of s the data value falls above (+ Z)

June 7, 2005 at 5:19 am #120798

So, does it mean that when we are saying six sigma, we

June 7, 2005 at 5:25 am #120799

Here is the answer

June 7, 2005 at 2:27 pm #120834

I think that you and the other guy need to do a little

June 7, 2005 at 3:34 pm #120842

It is confusing….The key point to remember is you are

ZST a measure of process capability when all special

June 7, 2005 at 3:41 pm #120846

Several incorrect statements in your post. Amoung them

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June 7, 2005 at 5:44 pm #120853

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June 7, 2005 at 6:44 pm #120858

Stan:There is some data on the Zst and Zlt in Harry’s

June 7, 2005 at 6:51 pm #120859

June 7, 2005 at 8:24 pm #120864

June 8, 2005 at 5:06 am Newsletters #120888

picky, picky, picky

June 8, 2005 at 5:08 am #120889

I agree that there are numbers on those pages – that

June 8, 2005 at 5:12 am #120890

Do you understan the difference between Cp and Cpk?

June 8, 2005 at 6:07 am #120891

Stan and Darth

June 8, 2005 at 7:27 am #120895

Stan / Darth correct me if I am wrong

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Yes – they are wrong.

June 8, 2005 at 10:58 am #120904

June 8, 2005 at 1:00 pm #120911

Naveen, you were doing OK until the very end. Typically,

June 8, 2005 at 1:29 pm #120917

Stan, the reason I ask about Cpk vs Cp is

Zu should equal CpkU3 and Zl = CpkL3. Then to get an