Wikidata:Property proposal/map URL

official map URL

Originally proposed at Wikidata:Property proposal/Place

   Done: official map URL (P9601) (Talk and documentation)

Description	URL for an official map or GIS system for a place
Represents	map (Q4006)
Data type	URL
Domain	item; physical location (Q17334923)
Allowed values	https?://.+
Example 1	University of Washington (Q219563) → https://www.washington.edu/maps/
Example 2	Seattle (Q5083) → http://clerk.seattle.gov/~public/nmaps/fullcit2.htm
Example 3	Seattle–Tacoma International Airport (Q14295) → https://www.portseattle.org/sea-tac/maps
Example 4	University of California, Berkeley (Q168756) → https://www.berkeley.edu/map
Example 5	Lincoln Highway (Q819117) → https://www.lincolnhighwayassoc.org/map/
Example 6	South Dakota (Q1211) → https://dot.sd.gov/media/documents/CADD-Mapping/State/SDmap.pdf
Example 7	Yosemite National Park (Q180402) → https://www.nps.gov/carto/hfc/carto/media/YOSEmap1.pdf
Example 8	New York City Subway (Q7733) → https://new.mta.info/map/5256
Planned use	Adding to items worked on as part of our WikiProject PCC Wikidata Pilot/University of Washington (Q98970039)
See also	Wikidata:Property_proposal/University_of_Washington_Campus_Map_ID For Commons files: detail map (P1621): map containing details about the entire location locator map image (P242): geographic map image which highlights the location of the subject within some larger entity location map (P1943): blank geographic map image suitable for overlaying coordinate points, as defined at c:Category:Location maps relief location map (P1944): relief location map of place URL: ground level 360 degree view URL (P5282): URL to access a service that allows to visually navigate through images at ground level in the proximity of the item Coordinates: coordinate location (P625): geocoordinates of the subject. For Earth, please note that only WGS84 coordinating system is supported at the moment Item based: category for maps or plans (P7867): name of the Wikimedia category specifically for maps or plans of this item Wikidata:Property_proposal/present_on_map Identifiers (several)

Motivation

There is no property to provide a link to a map depicting a location (building, university campus, corporate body, jurisdiction, geographic feature, transit system, etc.). We are creating items for buildings on the University of Washington campus and would like to link to campus maps that show the location of the building. Having a map URL property will be useful to add to many other items in Wikidata. UWashPrincipalCataloger (talk) 16:11, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

After discussion of the original proposal, I have changed this proposal to be more limited to officially issued maps of a place. UWashPrincipalCataloger (talk) 18:41, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

Discussion

•  Support But if this is not approved, described at URL (P973) with a suitable qualifier might work. We do have some pretty specific URL properties though (for example terms of service URL (P7014), privacy policy URL (P7101), calendar feed URL (P6818) user manual URL (P2078), etc.) so this one seems ok to me. ArthurPSmith (talk) 18:21, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
• I modeled this proposal on the existing property streaming media URL (P963). I have been using described at URL (P973) for maps, since I couldn't find anything better, but it really seemed insufficient to me, because it is so general and one expects something more than a map when you use "described at". UWashPrincipalCataloger (talk) 18:48, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
•  Support ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 00:24, 30 December 2020 (UTC)
•  Oppose Some of these examples seem questionable; for example, the links to random images on blogs with no license or attribution info available. Perhaps a map URL property with strict constraints could make sense (e.g. must be an official source), but as proposed, I don't think this should be approved. For the proposer's use case, I think described at URL (P973) would work just fine. --IagoQnsi (talk) 20:45, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
  • I disagree that described at URL (P973) is the best property to use for this. The subject is depicted geospatially, not described, at the URL. And there is the existing parallel property streaming media URL (P963) as precedent for this proposal. UWashPrincipalCataloger (talk) 05:58, 18 January 2021 (UTC)
    • The property streaming media URL (P963) is limited to the official link of a streaming media source. This proposal, however, seems to include maps from a variety of sources, many of which are unattributed and of unknown copyright status. I can see the value in linking to interactive maps on external sites, as we can't easily provide that ourselves; perhaps an "interactive map URL" property would make sense. But static images and PDFs should go on Wikimedia Commons, where they can be vetted for licensing status and where they can be easily reused by other Wikimedia projects. --IagoQnsi (talk) 16:50, 18 January 2021 (UTC)
      • How is this any different from described at URL (P973) which could also link to web pages that could have many different kinds of copyright/licensing statuses? And if the suggestion to just use described at URL (P973) is followed, doesn't that present the same issues? UWashPrincipalCataloger (talk) 07:31, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
•  Support Has a court ever found that linking even to copyrighted material posted on a website constitutes copyright infringement? If that is the case, then described at URL (P973) and other properties linking to non-Wiki sites could theoretically run into the same issue. I don't believe that argument is sound. This property would be useful for linking to maps of things. I'd be okay with limiting to a few sources but I don't think it's necessary. described at URL (P973) is inappropriate for most maps because they are depictions, and usually not descriptions. Linking to something and uploading it to Commons are very different things so I don't think uploading a copy of every map someone may want to link to is a useful alternative. --Crystal Clements, University of Washington Libraries (talk)
•  Support Pteropotamus (talk) 10:15, 1 March 2021 (UTC)
•  Support per ArthurPSmith above. Prburley (talk) 13:45, 1 March 2021 (UTC)
•  Comment I think we already had this, but maybe not? From the samples given, I suppose any location could be linked to any map, isn't it? I don't think this is intended, but what part of the proposal is meant to prevent it? I complete "see also" with other available solutions. --- Jura 15:13, 1 March 2021 (UTC)
• Is this replaced by Wikidata:Property_proposal/University_of_Washington_Campus_Map_ID ? Given the open questions, I think we can close this as not done --- Jura 17:34, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
  • Jura, no. Wikidata:Property_proposal/University_of_Washington_Campus_Map_ID is an identifier. This property is meant to link to a map of an item. What questions remain open, aside from the one you bring up about people possibly linking to maps that do not correspond to the item? Linking to the wrong thing is possible in every assertion people make in Wikidata, I don't fully understand how that could be a reason not to approve this property. --Crystal Clements, University of Washington Libraries (talk) 19:07, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
  • The question is when should one use this property and when not. --- Jura 19:15, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
    • UWashPrincipalCataloger, this property should be used when one wants to make the statement (item) --> (is depicted in a map at) --> (URL) in order to link a Wikidata item to a map which depicts that item on an external site, correct? --Crystal Clements, University of Washington Libraries (talk) 19:29, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
      • Crystal Clements, yes that is the intent of this property. It was intended to be a property specific to URLs linking to maps of a place. While there are some other more general properties that could take a URL linking to a map, I think it would be useful to have one that is specific to maps. We already have streaming media URL (P963), web feed URL (P1019), official blog URL (P1581), webcam page URL (P4238), non-free artwork image URL (P6500), curriculum vitae URL (P8214), and others. Having one specific to maps, would, I think, be quite useful. UWashPrincipalCataloger (talk) 19:49, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
        • • Most properties you mention have a single value to a unique resource. This is different from the above. That we do have other URL-datatype properties isn't really addressing the point raised. --- Jura 20:21, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

• • • • • I agree it would be useful. I also think all the open questions have been sufficiently answered here. --Crystal Clements, University of Washington Libraries (talk) 20:09, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
• @Jura1: There is only one person who has stated opposition to this proposal. All other comments are supportive. Does one opposed versus many supports kill a proposal? UWashPrincipalCataloger (talk) 19:51, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
  • The question is not to count the number of persons who logged-in (possibly all from the same IP range), but the determine if the proposal is well thought-through and if there is a consensus for its creation. If difficult questions remain unanswered for a long time, there is a strong indication that this is probably not the case. --- Jura 20:01, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
• @ChristianKl, ArthurPSmith, Prburley: can you clarify your point of view when about when this should be used and shouldn't be used given the problem raised by @IagoQnsi: --- Jura 20:17, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
•  Support Hi Adam, I would probably have to oppose this, since I agree with ArthurPSmith on the issue that we already have a decent property to use with some qualifiers.  Maps are funny things that also become highly politicized and open to interpretation on if a URL does in fact point to the right thing. Instead, most rely on Geolocation and services and linking between them. (Although it's great that University of Washington has an official campus layout map, perhaps this proposal could instead be repurposed to a more appropriately named new property "official campus map"? In lieu of that, I would instead highly encourage what other organizations do, which is to embrace and use OSM (and linking through it).  Read and reach out here: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:OpenStreetMap I.E. As a consumer, I want the data contained in Wikidata and in OSM and being able to roundtrip queries through both.  Rather than looking or querying through hundreds of potential related sites (even University of Washington's own) that have a "map of University of Washington buildings" and then stitching things together.  It's much easier to use something like OSM (a sort of Wikidata for Maps) to hold map data, coordinates, etc. and link out/in. There's already an amazing amount of data/metadata and ancillary information for your university https://www.openstreetmap.org/search?query=university%20of%20washington#map=17/47.65418/-122.30686 --Thadguidry (talk) 02:26, 14 May 2021 (UTC)
•  Comment So given my above opposition and suggestion for a change in approach, could you live with a change to this proposal to something like "official campus map URL" or simply "official map URL" or some such? --Thadguidry (talk) 02:26, 14 May 2021 (UTC)
  • Sounds closer to what the proposer seems to have intended, at least given the properties mentioned for comparison: terms of service URL (P7014), privacy policy URL (P7101), calendar feed URL (P6818) user manual URL (P2078). It would also avoid having to create a separate property for every organizational map (and could replace Wikidata:Property_proposal/University_of_Washington_Campus_Map_ID). --- Jura 06:55, 14 May 2021 (UTC)
    • Thadguidry Yes, I could definitely live with a change to something like "official campus map URL" or "official map URL". I think the more general option is preferable, as this needn't be limited to college and university campuses. For example, many state departments of transportation publish official maps of that state. I do, however, disagree that this proposal could replace Wikidata:Property_proposal/University_of_Washington_Campus_Map_ID, as that property is for an identifier of specific buildings and other locations on our campus that links to an interactive online map where the building or location is highlighted and specific information about it is given in a panel. I don't think we would want to add an official map URL property to every item for entities on our campus. An external identifier is better in this situation, I think. UWashPrincipalCataloger (talk) 07:08, 14 May 2021 (UTC)
    • UWashPrincipalCataloger Great! Then I await your changes on this proposal and will review again once you are ready. --Thadguidry (talk) 15:15, 14 May 2021 (UTC)
      • Thadguidry Jura1 I've revised the proposal to be for official maps of a place, with revised examples. UWashPrincipalCataloger (talk) 18:47, 14 May 2021 (UTC)
      • I find this version much better. Maybe GIS could be included in the scope/description. --- Jura 22:56, 14 May 2021 (UTC)
        • Jura I changed the description to include GIS as well. UWashPrincipalCataloger (talk) 07:45, 17 May 2021 (UTC)
•  Support revised version. --- Jura 09:37, 17 May 2021 (UTC)
• With Jura's support now, and changes made based on Thadguidry's suggestion, I wonder if this proposal can now be marked as ready for creation? UWashPrincipalCataloger (talk) 16:35, 20 May 2021 (UTC)
• I've changed my above initial oppose to now support this after your excellent changes --Thadguidry (talk) 16:55, 20 May 2021 (UTC)
•  Done please help complete and ensure it's being used. --- Jura 06:12, 22 May 2021 (UTC)