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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by William P. Coleman (talk | contribs) at 14:25, 11 February 2008 (→Needing Sources/References). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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Homosexuality in sports

I was reading Alone in the Trenches: My Life As a Gay Man in the NFL by Esera Tuaolo, which is very moving by the way, a good read. I am active in St. Louis Rams WikiProject and a general fan of the NFL and I thought I would see if there is an article about homosexuality in the NFL or in sports in general. The only one I saw was Homosexuality in women's sports‎. Would any be interested in or find notable to have an article about homosexuality in sports in general? Or even homosexuality in the National Football League? --Pinkkeith (talk) 17:50, 31 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Don't forget Ray McDonald (running back). -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 06:39, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The lesbian article is just begging for a sports section to be added. It would be more of a summary but might be a good place to start. Benjiboi 18:23, 31 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Homosexuality in figure skating is just begging to be created and heavily vandalized. Kolindigo (talk) 22:05, 31 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Gay Olympians could be a timely article and also heavily vandalized, perhaps we could develop a tour for vandals? Benjiboi 04:11, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
"And on your left, you will find premium flaming ground for both homosexuals and athletes you can't stand. On your right, the Washington Monument. Please watch your step." Kolindigo (talk) 07:21, 4 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

David Leavitt

Someone created a disambiguation page and the author would go as David F. Leavitt, but tbh I have *never* heard him being referred to that way. Is my dismay misguided?Zigzig20s (talk) 20:02, 1 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

They've changed things again, and whilst I think it would be all right now (as per David Leavitt (author)), they've also removed the wikiproject tags.Zigzig20s (talk) 20:23, 6 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It's been fixed (see Talk:David_Leavitt).
Call me cynical, but it seems someone wants to make sure that David O. Leavitt gets mentioned early on. --Sturm 20:55, 6 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Paddock Club

This article is up for deletion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Paddock Club, with the reasoning "Non-notable. Kill it with fire." Pairadox (talk) 00:48, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm going to take a look at it and see if I can tidy it up so deletion won't occur. I lived in Greenville for a while and I want to keep the article.--AgnosticPreachersKid (talk) 04:10, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
There's already been a good bit added to the article that seems to have given this article a bit of a firmer foundation. I'm especially proud of finding the Playboy's "best place to pick up chicks" bit... You can't make stuff like that up. The AfD was closed because of the nominator's track record, but the article still needs some work. - Mdsummermsw (talk) 20:12, 5 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Suggestions?--AgnosticPreachersKid (talk) 20:25, 5 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
FWIW: Most of the article is still reads as someone's fond remembrances, though recent cleanup has hidden that a bit. This leaves a good bit of the article completely unsourced as well. Additionally, having the article orphaned is never a good thing: orphans tend to get pruned off every now and again. - Mdsummermsw (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 20:44, 5 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, I'll try to work on it some more...after I eat this delicious pint of strawberry cheesecake heaven I purchased this afternoon. That's right, don't be jealous. (FYI: APK is a sweets addict and stops all activities to enjoy his sugary habit) AgnosticPreachersKid (talk) 20:49, 5 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Gay porn!

Hey homos - I'm interviewing porn king Michael Lucas (porn star) on Sunday. There are two purposes to this interview: 1. to clarify problems he has with his Wikipedia page (even if we don't remove info, we can give his side); and 2. to talk philosophically about the porn industry and the life of a porn star. If you have a question you'd like to ask Mr. Lucas, please leave it on my talk page. I hope you all are doing well out there in your Wiki worlds. --David Shankbone 01:04, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hm. Right. "talk philosophically". Sure. Are you taking pictures of you two "talking philosophically"? And will they be available at my favorite sites?
=D =D -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 02:50, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I'm a little envious, David, at your chance to interview such a hunk. But does that not amount to "original research"? Not trying to be a smartass here, just genuinely wondering. (But even if it is, by all means, enjoy! And get us some good pics too . . . .) Textorus (talk) 03:52, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I imagine it's not OR since he's probably doing the interview for Wikinews, of which David is a credentialed reporter. And if by hunk, you mean "yuck!".. lol :P - ✰ALLSTAR✰ echo 04:13, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, it's a Wikinews story. Lucas is actually quite an intellectual and we have had some pretty heavy philosophical e-mails (e.g. "What is love?") so don't count him as a lightweight. He's very passionate about his beliefs, and I assured him that if I could tongue-tie the President of the ACLU no less than two times in an interview, I could probably tongue-tie him. --David Shankbone 04:22, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for the image! =D -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 06:23, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Michael Lucas (porn star) COI

Resolved

FYI on a WP:COI Noticeboard debate involving User:David Shankbone and the Michael Lucas (porn star) article in: Wikipedia:Conflict of interest/Noticeboard#Michael Lucas (porn star). — Becksguy (talk) 02:27, 4 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Closed today as not COI. — Becksguy (talk) 08:56, 4 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Aaron Tone

Is he worthy of an article? [1] He's Andrew Sullivan's husband, but also an artist and sometimes actor. Thoughts?--AgnosticPreachersKid (talk) 09:43, 4 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I take that as a no. Anyway, it looks like Teddy couldn't rid himself of his gay affliction.[2] AgnosticPreachersKid (talk) 22:24, 6 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]


Wikipedia talk:User categories/Proposal

Help request

Would someone who is not me please take a look at Rick Pantera? I'm trying to believe that World News International (talk · contribs), despite the name, is a well-meaning newbie that could be coaxed into being a good wikipedian. To that end, I haven't outright speedied the article, and I haven't alerted hir that Mr. Pantera doesn't seem notable by any standard and the article is ripe for anyone to come by and speedy it, prod it, or even afd it. So if someone else could lend a hand, I would very much appreciate it. -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 01:48, 7 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It looks like it might meet the porn bio notability but the videography section as certainly too HUGE to handle. Benjiboi 02:13, 7 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I just left a note on the talk page of the article - the descriptions of the videos need to be deleted completely - they read as pure advertisements, not at all appropriate for an encyclopedia. Aleta (Sing) 02:32, 7 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I agree, the descriptions need to go. I have been known to watch porn (allegedly), but Wikipedia isn't the place. My DVD player on the other hand... AgnosticPreachersKid (talk) 02:44, 7 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Which hand? Wait - not here. ANYWAY... :) -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 03:01, 7 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Look at the user box near the bottom of my page. AgnosticPreachersKid (talk) 03:11, 7 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Nice userbox. lol :P - ✰ALLSTAR✰ echo 08:58, 7 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
"Which hand do you wank with?"
"Depends."
"On what?"
"Whether I'm moving a mouse."
Which brings up a delightful image of one hand down your trousers and the other shoving a rodent around a table... Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 15:42, 7 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Rick Pantera does meet notability guidelines, as he got a Grabby Award in 1994 - see here. Note that the community may need to act on this article if World News International (talk · contribs) starts to go too far into the use of the name Rick Pantera by another porn star years after this Rick Pantera left the business. There was a long thread on this at ATKOL a while back here. So, a disambiguation page may become necessary, and some help on encyclopedic content may be needed (as Titan stole my name and IMPERSONATOR!!!!!!!!!! are not - just to give a flavour of where I fear this could go, not accusing anyone of anything or saying these are direct quotes, as they are just the impression I recall of that thread). Jay*Jay (talk) 08:54, 7 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I have deleted the descriptions. I have no idea if the page author will want to replace them, but y'all might want to watch the article just in case. Aleta (Sing) 22:50, 7 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Jay*Jay I would recommend doing the disam page and maybe even moving the current one so it's clear which is which Rick Pantera (porn actor 2000s) maybe? Benjiboi 23:24, 7 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Help! I have just had a look at the information on disamguation. I understand the purpose, but am not sure how to create one correctly (or to move a page, for that matter). I also think that some disambiguation is needed in relation to the porn star Joe Foster. I was here and noticed Joe Foster (performer of the year) had a page. But, the page [[Joe Foster]] is a redirect to Slaughter Joe about a British musician, and I am pretty sure these are different people! Should the Joe Foster page be for the porn star, with a disambiguation link at the top for the musician? Or, should the Joe Foster page be a disambiguation page that links to both? Or, should the link from the GayVN Awards page just be removed? Or...? I'm confused. Would someone who knows what they are doing help please? Thanks, Jay*Jay (talk) 13:38, 8 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
More Help Please. On the COLT Studio Group article, I have added in a mention of the 2007 proclamation of a 'COLT Studio Day' by San Francisco Mayor Newsom, to celebrate the 40th anniversary of the studio. I borrowed a ref from the Gavin Newsom page, but must have done something wrong as there is no reference list appearing. Can someone please fix this, and let me know so I can look and see what I should have done? Thanks (again), Jay*Jay (talk) 14:27, 8 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
 Done This is what you were missing. Pairadox (talk) 17:49, 8 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Jay Brannan

You may be interested in Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jay Brannan. - ✰ALLSTAR✰ echo 20:47, 8 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

He could be less miserable if he actually worked *with* us rather than simply complaining. -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 21:34, 8 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I still say JzG/Guy should not have removed the content while the article is fully protected and then turn around and nom the article for deletion. That was foul. - ✰ALLSTAR✰ echo 21:58, 8 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I dunno - per BLP, that's about right. It'll get sorted out - and Guy's going through some stuff, so my opinion is to cut some slack. -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 22:12, 8 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Suggestion On the AfD, in response to Sam Blacketer's comment, I was able to find quite a few independent, reliable sources that I posted on the AfD page. With the article under full protection, we can't add them there unfortunately. However, if anyone is ambitious enough to create a sandbox article it could probably be convincingly demonstrate that a neutral, BLP compatible article can be written with several reliable sources to establish notability. That could help ally some of the delete voters concerns and, optimistically, maybe Jay Bannan's as well. I have a few articles in production myself, elsewise I would give it a go, but I thought I'd throw the suggestion out. AgneCheese/Wine 01:46, 9 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
fyi- The photograph of Jay Brannan is also up for deletion at Wikimedia Commons at the request of Brannan, who claims to hold the copyright. It was uploaded from Flickr were it is licensed under an CCA license. Commons:Commons:Deletion requests/Image:JayBrannan-MercuryLounge.jpg —Preceding unsigned comment added by Queerudite (talk • contribs) 04:13, 9 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Harlequin (color) encore

The AfD for Harlequin (color) has been closed as no consensus. Since the article is staying at least for now, does anyone know of a reliable source for its association with homosexuality? The original source was not very strong, and has long since been removed. Or, should we just remove our project tag from the talk page? Aleta (Sing) 01:22, 9 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I may have hit the jackpot! Take a look at this - and Moni3, Gittings is mentioned in the very first paragraph, so take a look at that! -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 08:17, 9 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Well, that blog isn't citeable for this, and doesn't explicitly mention harlequin at all, but it does point to some good possibilities for material that would be citeable. Even if it doesn't mention harlequin specifically, there may be some stuff worthy of adding to the articles for green and kelly green, possibly other shades. Aleta (Sing) 17:04, 9 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry - I didn't mean that was (in itself) an RS - but it has references to a whole host of sources that look RS. And I'm hoping some of those will mention the color by name or lead to a source that does. -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 17:10, 9 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Well, I'm sorry - I didn't think you were saying you thought the blog entry a RS, but were happy about the references there, and I was trying to agree with you! :) Aleta (Sing) 17:18, 9 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
/me happy dances at Aleta :) -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 17:21, 9 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
LOL Aleta (Sing) 17:24, 9 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Strange... I've seen that text before...

So I just got back from spending a day with Ann Bannon and I'm completely smitten. She signed all my books and is cooler than I could ever have hoped for. She gave me a signed calendar from the Lambda Literary Foundation, because she's in it, but in reading through the rest of the calendar, what do I notice that the month's entry on Barbara Gittings was lifted verbatim from the lead I wrote on August 28, 2007. So, I know my stuff is going to be plagiarized here on Wikipedia, but the Lambda Literary Foundation?? Wtf?? Do I write to them and tell them they're busted? --Moni3 (talk) 03:58, 9 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

ROTFL! I think that, because we're GDFL, they can pretty much get away with it. There might be something in the calendar that credits Wikipedia (should be, anyway). -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 07:45, 9 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Well, sure I checked to see if it was credited at all, but no. They have the same photo I used at the top of the page, taken by her partner Kay Lahusen, and owned by the NYPL, but it's credited to some archive in Philadelphia. --Moni3 (talk) 15:18, 9 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I think writing them would be a good idea. It's one thing to use the Wikipedia information - it's quite another not to attribute it as such. When you write them, be sure to include the information about when you wrote the text, and maybe even include the link to the diff(s) where you added it. Aleta (Sing) 16:58, 9 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
And that *is* strange. You would think a Literary Foundation, especially one that's relatively well known, would be above plagiarizing... <sigh> Ledger, Brannan, now this. I'm losing all my faith in my heroes. -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 17:09, 9 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Should I ask them for something? As in - you screwed up, now give us this? Except all nice-like. How about some exposure in the Lambda Book Report that goes out to LGBT writers? A little snippet of info about WP:LGBT studies? --Moni3 (talk) 17:40, 9 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
If you can ask for that in a nice way, that would be totally kewlio!!! -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 18:54, 9 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

So I says to them, I says:
Dear Sir or Madam,

My name is (Mr. Mytzplk) and I am a member of Wikiproject:LGBT studies. We are a group of editors who create and improve articles pertaining to LGBT issues on Wikipedia. Under the user name Moni3, I created the article for Ann Bannon, and have worked on articles for Jane Rule, Gale Wilhelm, Tipping the Velvet, Marijane Meaker, Barbara Gittings, The Ladder, the Daughters of Bilitis, and Barbara Grier, among other topics.

I recently had the immense good fortune to visit Ann Bannon, who graciously gave me the Lambda Literary Pioneers calendar as a gift. While reading through it later, I saw to my astonishment the text describing Barbara Gittings was taken verbatim from the lead paragraph of her article, that I wrote on August 28, 2007. It has since changed, but it is possible to see its state on that day by looking through the article history, found with the "History" tab at the top of the page. All versions of edits on Wikipedia are saved. First, I'm flattered you like my words. Second, I'm a bit surprised and a little dismayed that the Lambda Literary Foundation didn't credit Wikipedia. I understand Wikipedia articles are made almost for the purpose of copying (I also wrote the article on To Kill a Mockingbird, so I can only imagine the numbers of middle school students I have written papers for), but I have not yet seen my words used by a foundation based upon literature.

I was wondering if this might benefit our project at any rate. I've used a few articles from the Lambda Book Report, so I have to recognize the value of your work. Should you be in need of a worthy topic in a future publication, Wikiproject: LGBT studies is indeed one. Some of us, like me, add most of the content to articles by researching and reading as much as we can. Some patrol articles endlessly to counter vandalism. Some argue policy that should make it easier for articles to contain conflicting information about people, events, and works of art that are related to gay and lesbian interests. And some effectively battle with other Wikipedia editors who don't see the value of articles highlighting gay and lesbian issues. We always need help from people who are interested. If you are amenable, we can write something for your publication.

Wikipedia is available to millions of readers. I believe it is eighth most visited website on the internet. It is closely linked with Google so that articles I write anonymously show up first, second, or third on Google results. Wikipedia is history and information, and its sometime lack of credibility is a disturbing illustration of just how tenuous our knowledge really is. We are trying to keep gay history and culture alive, from the most important people and events to the slightest reference, and place it on par of importance with any other aspect of information.

You can find my user page here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Moni3 You can find WP: LGBT studies here, which can give you an idea of our mission and accomplishments so far: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_LGBT_studies My greatest accomplishment on Wikipedia is having my Ann Bannon article promoted to featured status.

I eagerly await your response and I appreciate your time and consideration.

Sincerely,

(Moni3)


That was nice, wasn't it? --Moni3 (talk) 19:39, 9 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Well done, I say! -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 23:09, 9 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Indeed! Let us know what you hear from them. Aleta (Sing) 23:16, 9 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Bonobo

Should we add Bonobo to the project? Bonobos are known for their sexual behavior, including both male and female homosexual behavior. The article talks about this - see in particular Bonobo#Sexual social behavior. So, LGBT project? Aleta (Sing) 23:20, 9 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, qualifies as material related to LGBT and Queer studies. --Phyesalis (talk) 00:07, 10 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
OK, I've added it now. I thought it should be, but wanted to hear from someone else. Aleta (Sing) 00:15, 10 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Um. Does that mean we have to add all these? -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 00:19, 10 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think so; however, the bonobo is particularly noted for its sexual social behaviors. (They use sex all the time!) Aleta (Sing) 00:22, 10 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Templating sections

I'd like to make the suggestion that Wikipedia:WikiProject LGBT studies#New articles related to LGBT and Wikipedia:WikiProject LGBT studies#Articles newly tagged as LGBT be moved to seperate pages and them be transcluded to Wikipedia:WikiProject LGBT studies. Two reasons. Ease of editing the 2 sections and the main reason is so that users can transclude these 2 sections to userpage. So if I wanted to see changes made to these 2 sections I would put {{WikiProject LGBT studies/Articles newly tagged as LGBT}} on my userpage and each time someone made a change, I'd see it there. If there's a consensus, I'll build it. - ✰ALLSTAR✰ echo 19:45, 10 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Question: would we be able to click on an "edit" link directly from the main project page? (There's no reason why not, is there, it could be like the to-do list at the top of the talk page, right?) Aleta (Sing) 19:49, 10 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Correct. An edit link would take you to the actual page to make the changes. So you could edit it from your own userpage or from Wikipedia:WikiProject LGBT studies - ✰ALLSTAR✰ echo 19:54, 10 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
In that case, I have no objections. Aleta (Sing) 19:58, 10 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
No objections here. -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 20:13, 10 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
No issues with your bot? Does it do any editing to these sections? I'm sure it wouldn't be an issue there, just sending the bot to the individual pages instead, but wanted to make sure. - ✰ALLSTAR✰ echo 20:15, 10 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

OK, it's done..

To add New articles related to LGBT to your userpage/space, use {{Template:WikiProject LGBT studies/New articles related to LGBT}}
To add Articles newly tagged as LGBT to your userpage/space, use {{Template:WikiProject LGBT studies/Articles newly tagged as LGBT}}

I'll be putting them both at User:Allstarecho/LGBTinfo so I can watch and edit them from one place. - ✰ALLSTAR✰ echo 20:41, 10 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No issues with the bot - it doesn't do anything there. -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 21:16, 10 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
BTW, they should probably be moved to Wikipedia space. As in

{{Wikipedia:WikiProject LGBT studies/New articles related to LGBT}}.

Mostly because they're sup-pages of the project, not really pages that will be used in articles. And the "/" makes them look like sub-pages anyway. Also, Wikipedia-space can be transcluded just like Template-space. Just a thought. -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 21:18, 10 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Well, I moved them to Wikipedia: instead of Template: but that caused the 'e' edit link to fail since navbox template requires it to be Template:. So I moved it back to Template: - ✰ALLSTAR✰ echo 22:22, 10 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Suggestion/request

Allstar, would you make the view and edit links separate, so that you can go to the editing screen directly from the page on which you're viewing the template? Aleta (Sing) 20:38, 10 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I tried that but for some reason it wouldn't work. I'll work on it and see what's causing the issue. - ✰ALLSTAR✰ echo 20:41, 10 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
OK, thanks! Aleta (Sing) 20:59, 10 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I've implemented a temporary work around so that the edit link goes right to editing. I've got to find the code for getting to editing using direct wikilink instead of formatting to a full URL as I have it now. I remember seeing the code, just have to find it. For now, it still works. - ✰ALLSTAR✰ echo 21:02, 10 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Better Aleta? - ✰ALLSTAR✰ echo 22:22, 10 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Looks good! Thanks, ASE! Aleta (Sing) 22:27, 10 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]


Cooler heads

I don't know if many of you watch Homosexual transsexual, but there's a discussion on its talk page that might benefit from a greater diversity of viewpoints (i.e., yours!). The primary question is whether to include an image in the article. Thanks, WhatamIdoing (talk) 22:37, 10 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Needing Sources/References

I would be interested in creating the following articles: LGBT rights in Africa, LGBT rights in Asia, and LGBT rights in Oceania. However, I need sources/references. If somebody could list some references or sources for me to use for the articles, I would gladly create the articles. Thanks! --Grrrlriot (talk) 22:37, 10 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The International Gay and Lesbian Human Rights Commission has a heading for "Publications & Resources." They also might maybe be willing to make available a Wiki-suitable license on some photography like the great pic on their front page. Good luck on this! It's a great subject to include in WP. I don't know anything about the topic, but if there were some way I could help, please let me know. William P. Coleman (talk) 04:50, 11 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the source, William! :) I'm glad you think its a great subject to include in WP. Thanks for wishing me luck as well. I will check out the source within 24 hours and start the articles. Can you think of any more sources? --Grrrlriot (talk) 04:53, 11 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I've included pretty well every worthwhile LGBT link I know in the bottom half of the sidebar on my blog. Listed there under "_ Gay news and journalism," there's a fair amount of worldwide news coverage, including human rights, at the Pinknews link, some at 365Gay, and less at NY Blade (which is mostly US).
To some extent, the links categorized there under "_ Gay teen suicide" and "_ Youth in crisis" represent human rights issues and, in that form, very definitely include the US and Canada. (I'm personally especially interested in those problems and feel that the US and other countries are practicing virtual genocide against LGBT youth. I plan eventually to ensure that Wikipedia covers it adequately.) The Covenant House link under "_ Youth in crisis" makes some attempt to cover all of North and Central America. William P. Coleman (talk) 05:42, 11 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
In that case, I direct your attention to Teenage suicide; it could use some attention from this Project. Pairadox (talk) 06:04, 11 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

(undent) Here are a few more:

Chile
Poland


Pairadox. I've looked at Teenage suicide, and you're completely right: it could use some attention from this project -- or even just from anybody human. Even more than the controversy over the LGBT Category, it's the single thing that makes me most enraged around here.
If I were a teen thinking of suicide, then reading Teenage suicide wouldn't stop me. And if I read that article's talk page, I'd certainly go ahead and off myself. It's an incredibly cold display of "I'm stuffy. I'm macho. I imagine myself to be a professional. I'm strictly here to write an encyclopedia."
Some people there don't even think teen suicide is a special problem that deserves its own article. What would they say if we asked for a special article about gay teens? . . . I mean, who cares if a couple of kids are dead? We have a worldwide reputation for boringness to maintain.
  • I understand that WP is not a social service agency -- and that it would, in fact, be positively dangerous to the kids for us to pretend to be so.
  • But we could still take into account that many young people who consult us are not on the same high level of awareness about WP's mission and that they might come to us by mistake.
  • I also understand that maintaining our objectivity and factualness would be more helpful than getting all weepy or preachy.
  • Nonetheless we -- without abandoning our mission, our integrity, or our policies -- could take a stance that we care about each and every young person who consults us, that we're aware of their possible problems.
  • Without pretending to be a social service agency, we could encouragingly, with some kindness, redirect them to people who would be able to fulfill that role.
There are also millions of kids (straight or LGBT) who, while not suicidal, are abused. Many, many of them have run away from home -- or have been kicked out by their parents.
There are also tens of millions of (straight or LGBT) kids who, while not formally abused, do not grow up in an atmosphere (at home, at school, at church) that helps them in the delicate, emotionally stressful, confusing task of growing up -- as humans or as sexual beings. They waste their youth in years of depression and become adults slowly, painfully, and incompletely.
Lots of such kids might (incorrectly, of course) seek information or solace from WP.
Only MHO William P. Coleman (talk) 14:25, 11 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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