User talk:TylerBurden
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Things that are block-worthy
[edit]For the record, I agree with your prior assertion and was about a hair's breadth away from imposing a page block at first. I ultimately decided not to due to the lack of prior history of edit warring that I could see, and thus that a stern edit warring warning was a more appropriate remedy at the time. signed, Rosguill talk 19:55, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Rosguill I think that's fair, once you noticed it evidently didn't get the point across you acted quickly and decisively, so I can't think of a better way to handle that situation. I was about to reply to him that it's difficult to make something up that I didn't post in the first place, since he seems to be having trouble interpreting the layout of talk pages and thought I was the one who had issued the edit warring warning, but that it very clearly wasn't "made up", however you were quicker than me and dealt with the problem. Either way thank you for acting on that, I suspect you have not only prevented further disruption in a sensitive topic but also allowed editor's to use their time more productively than trying to explain things that were clearly not being understood. TylerBurden (talk) 20:25, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
A Concise History of Finland says: "The work of conversion was not, however, a monopoly of the Catholic church. Russian Orthodoxy, having extended its influence into the region around lakes Ladoga and Onega was also active amongst the Häme" (p. 8). It is well known that Tavastians were in the crosshairs of two warring sides. Mellk (talk) 22:18, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
- Perhaps information better suited for religion in Finland, which already has a section on orthodoxy. TylerBurden (talk) 22:42, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
- That article is about the modern Finnish state. It seems misleading to suggest that the tribes were only converted to the Catholic church, including by Danes. Today there exists a division among "Karelians", the Orthodox ones live within today's Russia while the other ones live within today's Finland (and are considered a subgroup) and have significant differences as a result of these conflicts. Mellk (talk) 22:46, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
- I don't think it's necessarily outside of that articles scope, but there is also already some coverage about orthodoxy in history of Finland, including this division of Karelians. TylerBurden (talk) 22:52, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
- It makes sense to add more detail to this in the history article, but is it not sufficient to include a brief mention in the history section of the Finland article e.g. "Some Tavastians were converted to Orthodoxy"? If not, then wouldn't the mention of Danish conversions be undue as well? Mellk (talk) 22:56, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
- The Danish crusades are mentioned, there were several of these crusades specifically targeting Finland and I suspect these are more widely covered than Orthodox convertions around the lakes. TylerBurden (talk) 19:51, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
- It makes sense to add more detail to this in the history article, but is it not sufficient to include a brief mention in the history section of the Finland article e.g. "Some Tavastians were converted to Orthodoxy"? If not, then wouldn't the mention of Danish conversions be undue as well? Mellk (talk) 22:56, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
- I don't think it's necessarily outside of that articles scope, but there is also already some coverage about orthodoxy in history of Finland, including this division of Karelians. TylerBurden (talk) 22:52, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
- That article is about the modern Finnish state. It seems misleading to suggest that the tribes were only converted to the Catholic church, including by Danes. Today there exists a division among "Karelians", the Orthodox ones live within today's Russia while the other ones live within today's Finland (and are considered a subgroup) and have significant differences as a result of these conflicts. Mellk (talk) 22:46, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
Administrators' newsletter – December 2024
[edit]News and updates for administrators from the past month (November 2024).
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Arbitration
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Ethnicity and religion
[edit]On the reverted edits of “Swedish Canadians” and “Finnish Americans”, just wanted to let you know that my opinion is that religion and ethnicity should be valued. I would like to be given specific reasons why you think it is unnecessary Servite et contribuere (talk) 22:11, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
- (talk page jaguar) In short, our role here is not to publish our opinions, it is to provide verifiable information proportional to its representation in reliable sources. The concrete basis of MOS:ETHNICITY is actually general: if sources generally do not treat any attribute of an individual as central to their notability, it generally shouldn't appear in the lead or infobox. Ethnicity, nationality, and confessional membership are essentially particular cases of this principle we've specified. Remsense ‥ 论 22:39, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
- I wasn’t trying to publish my opinion. And I think that there is a consensus that Finnish, Swedish and other Nordic peoples are traditionally Lutheran Servite et contribuere (talk) 22:59, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
- Your opinion is that these things are especially important, and would like to publish as to reflect that opinion. Think about it like this, is a key fact about Swedish Canadians specifically that many of them are Lutheran? I would dispute that this is borne out in the sources. If it is, then it should perhaps be considered. Remsense ‥ 论 23:37, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
- Remember Traditionally means the Religion that have historically been. Traditionally might not reflect Today, but it does reflect that Swedish (And Nordic people) have had ancestors that were Lutheran. In Norway for example, membership to the state church was mandatory until the 19th century Servite et contribuere (talk) 03:21, 14 December 2024 (UTC)
- I understand that. Given you are expression a dimension of the topic that is temporally limited somewhat, that can affect how importance is weighed too. Remsense ‥ 论 03:23, 14 December 2024 (UTC)
- I just want to know how the topic is temporarily limited. I don’t quite get it Servite et contribuere (talk) 03:30, 14 December 2024 (UTC)
- It is also important to remember that different ethnicities have different religions, for example, the Arab people are predominantly Muslim, but in Australia, they are predominantly Christian. Ethnicities might have different predominant religions in different countries, they might be a different religion to the country in their homeland because they moved to flee persecution. For another example, religion among an ethnicity might be declining, in that case you can use the term “Traditionally” to say what religion they or their ancestors historically were, for some ethnicities, you can use predominantly, for some you can use “Historically or Traditionally” Servite et contribuere (talk) 00:17, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
- In fact, that kind of nuance is also a component of why we don't rattle off readily in the lead and infobox as if it were merely another parametrizable data point, but instead discuss the subject in prose within the actual article as needed. Remsense ‥ 论 00:19, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
- Can you use more simple words please? It would be easier for my brain to process the sentence Servite et contribuere (talk) 01:56, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
- In fact, that kind of nuance is also a component of why we don't rattle off readily in the lead and infobox as if it were merely another parametrizable data point, but instead discuss the subject in prose within the actual article as needed. Remsense ‥ 论 00:19, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
- I understand that. Given you are expression a dimension of the topic that is temporally limited somewhat, that can affect how importance is weighed too. Remsense ‥ 论 03:23, 14 December 2024 (UTC)
- Remember Traditionally means the Religion that have historically been. Traditionally might not reflect Today, but it does reflect that Swedish (And Nordic people) have had ancestors that were Lutheran. In Norway for example, membership to the state church was mandatory until the 19th century Servite et contribuere (talk) 03:21, 14 December 2024 (UTC)
- Your opinion is that these things are especially important, and would like to publish as to reflect that opinion. Think about it like this, is a key fact about Swedish Canadians specifically that many of them are Lutheran? I would dispute that this is borne out in the sources. If it is, then it should perhaps be considered. Remsense ‥ 论 23:37, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
- I wasn’t trying to publish my opinion. And I think that there is a consensus that Finnish, Swedish and other Nordic peoples are traditionally Lutheran Servite et contribuere (talk) 22:59, 13 December 2024 (UTC)