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Need Your Help

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Hi Zero0000,

Happy New year and wish you a prosperous 2020,

As I see you work on pages about local historical places I dare to pose my question. I used to create pages about some small historical places of my country, Iran, but I had to stop because they were locally and failed notability.This was also true for the articles which existed in Wikipedia:Persian and i translated it into English. I wonder if I can use your advice on how to continue that? Thank you.Alex-h (talk) 13:40, 1 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Alex-h: Hi, can you tell me some examples? I can see them even if they were deleted. Zerotalk 13:52, 1 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Hello Zero0000, it’s very kind of you accepting to help me with my edits. These are the articles I had problem with. Fortunately, none was deleted but all stayed in draft for sometimes.

Minaret Kabir, I had real problem finding sources outside its local circle.

Map of Iran in Afsharid Era. Although it existed in Persian Wikipedia but they put it in AFD, fortunately survived.

Alliance School, Tehran, stayed in draft for one month for not having enough sources.

Alliance School, Kermanshah, Stayed four months in draft.

Xerxes I's inscription at Van, another editor worked on it and improve it.

At last fear of having deleted articles made me to give in. I stopped creating these articles. I hope you can help me. I do appreciate that you are putting your time and efforts on this. Alex-h (talk) 22:31, 2 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Mail

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Hello, Zero0000. Please check your email; you've got mail!
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.

Onceinawhile (talk) 00:26, 3 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Administrators' newsletter – January 2020

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News and updates for administrators from the past month (December 2019).

Guideline and policy news

Arbitration

  • The fourth case on Palestine-Israel articles was closed. The case consolidated all previous remedies under one heading, which should make them easier to understand, apply, and enforce. In particular, the distinction between "primary articles" and "related content" has been clarified, with the former being the entire set of articles whose topic relates to the Arab-Israeli conflict, broadly interpreted rather than reasonably construed.
  • Following the 2019 Arbitration Committee elections, the following editors have been appointed to the Arbitration Committee: Beeblebrox, Bradv, Casliber, David Fuchs, DGG, KrakatoaKatie, Maxim, Newyorkbrad, SoWhy, Worm That Turned, Xeno.

Miscellaneous

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 20:07, 4 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Recuest

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Good evening I am a bengali wikipedian and trying to translate Aslo accord article in Bangla. But there is a security issue and I can't copy the html text of this article to translate. Can you send me the copy of full html text in my gmail id? My gmail id is here Sorghum 14:00, 30 January 2020 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by প্রলয়স্রোত (talk • contribs)

Administrators' newsletter – February 2020

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News and updates for administrators from the past month (January 2020).

Guideline and policy news

  • Following a request for comment, partial blocks are now enabled on the English Wikipedia. This functionality allows administrators to block users from editing specific pages or namespaces rather than the entire site. A draft policy is being workshopped at Wikipedia:Partial blocks.
  • The request for comment seeking the community's sentiment for a binding desysop procedure closed with wide-spread support for an alternative desysoping procedure based on community input. No proposed process received consensus.

Technical news

  • Twinkle now supports partial blocking. There is a small checkbox that toggles the "partial" status for both blocks and templating. There is currently one template: {{uw-pblock}}.
  • When trying to move a page, if the target title already exists then a warning message is shown. The warning message will now include a link to the target title. [1]

Arbitration

  • Following a recent arbitration case, the Arbitration Committee reminded administrators that checkuser and oversight blocks must not be reversed or modified without prior consultation with the checkuser or oversighter who placed the block, the respective functionary team, or the Arbitration Committee.

Miscellaneous


Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 15:06, 1 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Abel's book

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On vol. 2, page 301, there is supposed to be a "Tell esh Shammām" or "Tel esh-Shamam". Can you tell me what is written there about the site?--Bolter21 (talk to me) 18:53, 6 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Administrators' newsletter – March 2020

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News and updates for administrators from the past month (February 2020).

Guideline and policy news

  • Following an RfC, the blocking policy was changed to state that sysops must not undo or alter CheckUser or Oversight blocks, rather than should not.
  • A request for comment confirmed that sandboxes of established but inactive editors may not be blanked due solely to inactivity.

Technical news

  • Following a discussion, Twinkle's default CSD behavior will soon change, most likely this week. After the change, Twinkle will default to "tagging mode" if there is no CSD tag present, and default to "deletion mode" if there is a CSD tag present. You will be able to always default to "deletion mode" (the current behavior) using your Twinkle preferences.

Miscellaneous


Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 11:21, 2 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

1979–80 Shia uprising in Iraq

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Hi, due to your interest in Middle Eastern history, you are welcome to contribute to the newly created 1979–80 Shia uprising in Iraq article.GreyShark (dibra) 12:48, 6 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Propose changes to articles

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Please see https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Israel_Palestine_Collaboration#Changes_to_many_pages I would like your opinion. Zarcademan123456 (talk) 02:51, 7 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Re canvassing

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Hello. I have just seem the message you left on my personal Talk page regarding canvassing. I assume it is referring to the messages I recently left on the Talk pages of the users Shrike and Tritomex. I was not sure whether this was canvassing, and I have also received messages from other editors requesting my input on pages (to address recent edits) or regarding discussions. On the canvassing page, two instances of appropriate notification listed include notifying: "Editors who have made substantial edits to the topic or article" and "Editors who have participated in previous discussions on the same topic (or closely related topics)". .Thus seems to apply to the twi editors I notified. Was the issue perhaps in the way in which I wrote my messages (in which I included the objections I had had with the edits in question (rather than characterizing the issue more neutrally)? If my recent messages were canvassing, what should I now do? Is the appropriate course action to delete the messages, or should I do something else? Thank you. Skllagyook (talk) 13:37, 13 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Linking to crappy articles

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Hey Zero,

I just noticed you reverted my edits liking a couple pages to The Stone of Losses. I understand your reasoning, it really is a crappy article, but I'm just trying to de-orphan it. I was hoping that by linking it to higher trafficked (and relevant) articles, it would receive some attention and hopefully provoke an expert on the subject (which I am not) to get it properly researched and sourced. Is this misguided? Mbdfar (talk) 07:04, 24 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Mbdfar: I don't think there is a firm rule about this situation. My general approach is to consider the experience of the readers, rather than of the editors. The hope is that a reader who clicks on a "see also" link will come to an article with more reliable information related to the subject, but I don't think that is the case here. I think that even the association of the "stone of the strayers" with the Temple Mount is conjectural, since the primary mention in the Mishna does not say where it is. (My amateur reading is that the story of Honi implies that the stone was not on the mount, see page 398; if they were on the mount already, they wouldn't have to go somewhere else to look at it.) Actually the most efficient way to get action on an article is to list it for deletion; that was done once before but the case was closed prematurely with little benefit to the article. Zerotalk 10:27, 24 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Descendant of refugees, UNHCR vs UNRWA

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Can you please point to where in the document that you mentioned on the talk page does it mention the definition of refugees? Zarcademan123456 (talk) 14:41, 29 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Zarcademan123456: Section 5.1 is all about families of refugees. The rules are messy and not the same as UNHCR's rules, but it is false in general that refugee status is not passed to descendants. Zerotalk 01:45, 30 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Administrators' newsletter – April 2020

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News and updates for administrators from the past month (March 2020).

Guideline and policy news

  • There is an ongoing request for comment to streamline the source deprecation and blacklisting process.

Technical news

Arbitration

Miscellaneous

  • The WMF has begun a pilot report of the pages most visited through various social media platforms to help with anti-vandalism and anti-disinformation efforts. The report is updated daily and will be available through the end of May.
Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 07:00, 1 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

About PEF survey

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I am using the PEF survey for reference in articles about archaeological sites. Is there a place where I can see in what timeframe each of the sheets was studied? I want to write exactly when these places were visited because some of them were for a time small hamlets made of mudbricks and these settlements don't always have a permanent nature.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 13:14, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Bolter21: I don't think this information is available in detail. The early pages of volume 1 of the survey have a brief chronological account that might help a little. The maps themselves all say "surveyed and drawn May 1878" which isn't much use. Zerotalk 14:48, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. An automated process has detected that when you recently edited History of Israel, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Transjordan (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are usually incorrect, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of unrelated topics with similar titles. (Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.)

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Administrators' newsletter – May 2020

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News and updates for administrators from the past month (April 2020).

Administrator changes

removed Gnangarra • Kaisershatner • Malcolmxl5

CheckUser changes

readded Callanecc

Oversight changes

readded HJ Mitchell

Guideline and policy news

Technical news

Miscellaneous

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 01:20, 2 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Ain Jalut

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I'm guessing I don't have to explain BRD to you. Your bold addition that I reverted and you reinstated is, by your own admission, part of ARBPIA. So, please self revert and follow the usual process. Levivich [dubious – discuss] 05:03, 5 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Levivich: There was nothing bold about my edit. It was a perfectly normal act of article improvement. This is an article about a place and you claim that it is trivia that there used to be a village there; that's simply nonsense. It was your deletion that was bold (and unjustified). BRD is not a policy and ARBPIA does not mandate discussion before reverted content is reinserted. That rule was removed in the last ARBPIA arbcom case. Zerotalk 05:12, 5 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I'm speechless that you are saying your addition wasn't the "bold" part of BRD but my reversion was, or that you don't have to follow BRD because it's not a policy. And ARBPIA does not mandate discussion before reverted content is reinserted?? The WP:ONUS policy is what mandates that. It's currently 2-1 opposed to the addition in the talk page thread I started. You're arguing that this content is covered by a DS area while simultaneously ignoring our policies. I ask you a second time to self revert and follow our normal editing procedures. You need consensus before you can re-add the content per WP:ONUS and WP:BRD. Levivich [dubious – discuss] 05:21, 5 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Since you declined to self revert, I've reverted it. Levivich [dubious – discuss] 14:53, 5 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Let me get this straight: At 03:33, 5 May 2020, you added some disputed content to the article, which was subsequently removed. At 03:46, 5 May 2020‎‎ , you logged this ARBPIA notice to the article's talk page - That notice clearly says "If an edit is reverted by another editor, its original author may not restore it within 24 hours of the revert". Then, at 05:00, 5 May 2020‎ you restored the content that was removed by Levivich, directly violating the restriction that you yourself added to the page, and are now claiming doesn't apply? I think WP:AE should be the next step here. JungerMan Chips Ahoy! (talk) 15:11, 5 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I actually think SPI is the next move, I'll start working on that. nableezy - 23:42, 5 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nableezy, who do you think is a sock this time? Sir Joseph (talk) 23:44, 5 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
If you watch Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/NoCal100 you can find out for yourself. nableezy - 00:03, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Did you know this beauty?

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this beauty.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 11:15, 12 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Bolter21: Yes, I know it. A large amount of work went into that site. I don't use it much because I have all the maps and more on my computer, but still the search function is useful when I can't find something. Zerotalk 03:21, 13 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I started the Survey Department of Palestine article – it would be a good place to list all the notable series of maps produced during the mandate, and to explain why the 1:20,000 and the 1:100,000 are the most important. Onceinawhile (talk) 08:46, 28 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I have also started to organize the maps we have at commons - I have put all the ones I can find at commons:Category:Survey Department of Palestine maps. Pinging @Padres Hana: who was good enough to upload many of these. Onceinawhile (talk) 10:00, 28 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Ein Qiniya

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I can’t find the “thank” button but thx for rectifying my oversight here. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ein_Qiniya

Also, since OETA was not set up yet, how would you characterize the type of governance the city was under at that point? Martial law? Zarcademan123456 (talk) 13:35, 17 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Zarcademan123456: Yes, martial law. Zerotalk 13:41, 17 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Difficult edit

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Re: Belt and Road

Copyvios: so do I, I take breaches of BLP seriously too. I can also see an editwar that needs to be nipped in the bud.

It appears that we have an editor that intended to point to an article (of dubious use) who used the wrong syntax He was then hammered (breach of AGF) by an editor with an extreme POV. Ignoring the impolite message you sent me, you have the tools to sort this out- can you ammend the edit so a link to the reference remains, and the copyvio is zapped. Can you watch this article, and if necessary put on protection- the talk page also need watching. Looking at the section that is disrespectful to a politician- using your powers can you moderate the language in the H2. Thank you for being so speedy in you action. ClemRutter (talk) 10:20, 21 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Can I ask you for opinion?

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[2] thanks GizzyCatBella🍁 15:35, 27 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Antisemitism in Poland: Motion (May 2020)

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The following is added as a remedy to the Antisemitism in Poland arbitration case: 7) 500/30 restriction: All IP editors, users with fewer than 500 edits, and users with less than 30 days' tenure are prohibited from editing articles related to the history of Jews and antisemitism in Poland during World War II (1933–45), including the Holocaust in Poland. This prohibition may be enforced preemptively by use of extended confirmed protection (ECP), or by other methods such as reverts, pending changes protection, and appropriate edit filters. Reverts made solely to enforce the 500/30 rule are not considered edit warring.

    • Editors who are not eligible to be extended-confirmed may use the Talk: namespace to post constructive comments and make edit requests related to articles within the topic area, provided they are not disruptive. Talk pages where disruption occurs may be managed by the methods mentioned above.
    • Standard discretionary sanctions as authorized by the Eastern Europe arbitration case remain in effect for this topic area.

Passed 6 to 0 by motion at 19:57, 30 May 2020 (UTC)

For the arbitration committee, Moneytrees🌴Talk🌲Help out at CCI! 20:28, 30 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Administrators' newsletter – June 2020

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News and updates for administrators from the past month (May 2020).

Administrator changes

added CaptainEek • Creffett • Cwmhiraeth
removed Anna Frodesiak • Buckshot06 • Ronhjones • SQL

CheckUser changes

removed SQL

Guideline and policy news

Arbitration

  • A motion was passed to enact a 500/30 restriction on articles related to the history of Jews and antisemitism in Poland during World War II (1933–45), including the Holocaust in Poland. Article talk pages where disruption occurs may also be managed with the stated restriction.
Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 13:28, 1 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Nablusi soap

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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Nabulsi_soap&action=history

Just because nationalistic, why not just reword description then? Especially if the sources are good.

I am not trying to promote viewpoint here; I usually try to edit (and love) by “less is more” concept. But again, if sources are good, I believe commentary on sources should be rephrased, rather than altogether omitted Zarcademan123456 (talk) 09:09, 7 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Zarcademan123456: This type of discussion should be on the article talk page. The only possible mention of Israelites is in the Hebrew source, as the other sources here don't mention Israelites. I checked. I can't fix text based on a source I can't access, and it can't stay like it is because it says "were used in soap production, known as potash" which is simply false (potash cannot be used as soap). Soap production in the Middle East long predated Israelites anyway, so why is this insertion here at all? I still think it looks like a standard type of nationalistic push. If the ancient history of soap making is to be covered, it should be done in a balanced fashion. Both of the other sources (Abu Rabia and Cohen, which are good and should be cited) are about soap production in Islamic Palestine but the text makes it sound like Israelites are still being discussed. Zerotalk 10:04, 7 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Nablusi soap

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Would you mind posting your reply to my talk page? For whatever reason I can’t access on you page Zarcademan123456 (talk) 11:36, 7 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(moved to article talk page). Zerotalk 12:05, 7 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Off-hand

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can you tell me out what village the OCHA report (Palestinian springs expropriation page) of a Mugharier, near to the Ein Ar Rashah spring, is? Sorry for the bother.Nishidani (talk) 07:19, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Nishidani: Al-Mughayyir, Ramallah about 2km SW of the spring. Zerotalk 08:37, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, prof. Indispensably erudite as always.Nishidani (talk) 09:20, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Is this a valid revision?

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Hi, Zero0000. In response to your last comment on the Talk:Hebraization of Palestinian place names, and where you made this edit, do you think the following edit (revised) applies to the Hebraization of place names?

The retentention of the Old Hebrew name for Cesarea Philippi, according to Schürer, effectually began in the 4th century, when the name Paneas was once again used.[1] The names Lod, Beisan, and Sepphoris were preferred by Semitic groups over their Greco-Roman names, viz., Diospolis, Scythopolis and Diocæsarea, respectively.[2] By the time of the Middle Ages, Hadrian's intention to banish the Jews from Jerusalem and to apply his own name Ælius to the city, and which was done, according to Philostorgius, "that they might not find in the name of the city a pretext for claiming it as their country," had no longer been realised.[3] (END QUOTE)

As for Philostorgius, can we not attribute a quote to his name, and where there is a connection to our topic matter? Just asking. While the name "Paneas" may actually be a Greek name, it was used by the Hebrews before its name was changed to Cesarea-Philippi.

References

  1. ^ Schürer 1891, p. 134 (note 345).
  2. ^ Rainey 1978, p. 10.
  3. ^ Sozomen & Philostorgius 1855, p. 481 (epitome of book vii, chapt. 11).

Davidbena (talk) 12:57, 12 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It has all the same faults as the original version. So, no, it is not acceptable. Zerotalk 01:41, 14 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Administrators' newsletter – July 2020

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News and updates for administrators from the past month (June 2020).

Guideline and policy news

Technical news

Arbitration

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 10:26, 1 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

map animation

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Sample animation for discussion

To editor Onceinawhile: To editor Huldra: I now have scripts which will make things like this automatically given the bounds in either lat/long form or Palestine grid form. To reduce the distraction caused by the animation, it only cycles 5 times (refresh the page to start it again). This map is larger than desirable (15MB). For only two maps, a smooth transition done in css is nicer and smaller but I didn't yet figure out how to wikify it. Zerotalk 14:26, 1 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Zero0000, I like it. Some questions:

  • Would the same script allow for the creation of three separate images all with the same coordinates? That way we could have gifs on some pages and switcher buttons on others – I don’t think we need every page the same.
  • Could the gifs easily have labels added to them so readers know what they are looking at?
  • Could we easily add Jacotin into the same
  • Is this easy for the rest of us to do? If we are going to get this put onto all 400+ depopulated villages and their current Israeli locations, we are going to have to share the burden across a number of regular editors

Onceinawhile (talk) 18:59, 1 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Onceinawhile: To your questions in order: (1) Yes, that's what it does before combining them. (2) Yes, the script could either apply text on the map itself or below it. Of course a human would have to supply the text. (3) Not easily. I rely on wikimedia and POM having tile servers with the same tile system. I'm not aware of a tile server for Jacotin so a lot of manual work would be needed. (4) All the software components are free. If you have linux, you probably have them already. If you have Mac, I can walk you through the installation. Let's not mention that other possibility. Zerotalk 02:34, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks Zero. On (3), the POM guys seemed to suggest they intend to add Jacotin in due course, so presumably they will have to create a tile system for it. But there is no certainty that it will work well, given the number of errors in that map, so I don't think we should wait. On (4) ok great, that would be excellent. A couple of other points:
(5) I am still quite taken by the "overlays", for which I acknowledge your counterpoints. It is possible to add the creation of these to the same script?
(6) I have created a sortable table of all the destroyed villages at Talk:List_of_towns_and_villages_depopulated_during_the_1948_Palestinian_exodus#New_table_for_comment_-_DRAFT. Should allow for checking whether there are missing articles, and allows for contextualization of the most significant localities.
Onceinawhile (talk) 13:41, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(3) The problem is that Jacotin's scale is irregular and the positions of the villages are only rough (and sometimes way off). It can't be overlaid on a modern map without anomalies. Also it is 1:100K so the size of the rectangle that shows a useful amount of detail is much larger than for the 1:20K maps. (4) Tell me by email what computer and OS you have and I'll send instructions and a test script. (5) Yes, the overlay is a png with transparent background and combining it with another image is elementary. Also changing it to blue. So you can tip a bowl of spaghetti onto the Mona Lisa's face if you want. (6) It should involve Khalidi and Huldra. Also, for the purpose of making maps the coordinates would be good (either Lat/Long or Pal grid). Zerotalk 14:12, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Zero0000, thanks. I will email you re 4. Re 6, Abu Sitta's work heavily sources Khalidi, Morris and Hadawi / Village Statistics. Onceinawhile (talk) 17:04, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I am going to try to figure out Wikidata, particularly Wikidata:Wikidata:Infobox Tutorial. That way all the village infobox info can go into Wikidata, as can the images and the maps – it can then be automatically pulled from there together with the coordinates. It will make things much less manual as the way we present things here continues to evolve. Onceinawhile (talk) 21:05, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I can't find it just now, but somewhere there is a recent discussion of problems with displaying stuff from wikidata in infoboxes, due to the lack of control that this project has over the quality of data on that project. In the case of images on Commons, we solve such problems by using a different image or no image, but if wikidata becomes another battleground over Palestinian villages after all the infoboxes in Wikipedia have been modified, it will be a big mess. Zerotalk 03:59, 3 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the links on this. Very fair – it seems a little to early to create reliance on Wikidata. The project has not yet hit “critical mass”, presumably because too much of it requires programming knowledge, thereby discouraging a large proportion of Wikipedia’s editors from involvement over there. Onceinawhile (talk) 10:31, 3 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

ARBPIA clarification request

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Hi Zero0000, I've closed the clarification request you filed. Best, Kevin (aka L235 · t · c) 23:25, 12 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Palestine Open Maps

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To editor Huldra: To editor Onceinawhile: I've added Palestine Open Maps to the GeoTemplate template (the thing that is activated when you click on coordinates). Try Deir Yassin for example; it will show Palestine Open Maps as well as the Israel map choices. On the other hand, if you try Al-Mansi you will see only the Israeli maps. The reason is the "coordinates" argument of the infobox, which has "type:city_region:IL" for al-Mansi but "type:city_region:PS" for Deir Yassin. The template has the IL section inside the PS section, which is why you see both Palestine and Israel choices for region PS but only Israel choices for region IL. A task worth doing is to change the region to PS for all the depopulated villages. Zerotalk 05:45, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Great idea. I have gone through and made the change with AutoJWB. Onceinawhile (talk) 19:25, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
While doing that I noticed the template Template:GeoGroup which is on all the categories. It can automatically pull all the coordinates of any category. I wish I had noticed it before I spent all the time pulling the coordinates semi-manually a few days ago! Onceinawhile (talk) 19:52, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
That is brilliant! (I have no idea as to how you fixed that..)
I especially likes the "download" option :) Nice!
My only (small) objection is that I suspect very few(?) readers will find it...it took me years before I even pressed the longitude/latitude numbers ...(Hey, not everyone are as "cartophiles" as you two are! (you, and User:Padres Hana))
In short: it is a treasure trove, but I wonder how many will find it? Is it possible to make reader more aware of it? -somehow give it a greater prominence? (I suspect not, as part of GeoTemplate template? Is there other ways?)
This really deserves greater prominence, Huldra (talk) 20:56, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Huldra: We are planning greater prominence, probably including a direct link on each village page. Zerotalk 02:15, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Exellent! A clear link on each page is what is needed, Huldra (talk) 20:27, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The Wizard of Oz Barnstar
In recognition of Zero's magical achievements in mapping out the disappeared reality of Palestine and its peoples. Nishidunny 07:14, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]


From me, too! ;) Huldra (talk) 20:27, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I guess all of us bristle a little at awards and compliments. Smacks of flattery, adulation, greasing up. Nothing any of several of the constructive editors in the I/P area rank higher than a big toe compared to the majestic stature your achievement in village articles confers on you, uniquely, Huldra. What a silly sentence, come to think of it. But it is true. I don't like handing out barnstars because I consider that, singularly, they imply an underestimation of other contributors. That shed/said, I'll finish my night cap, and put one on to do some sobering reading offwiki. Best regards to you all. A magnificent collaborative collective achievement.Nishidani (talk) 21:29, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Immediately rushing to exploit my credit rating after some tactical brownnosing

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could I call on Your Omniscience to clarify a thing that's threatening to rob me of sleep?

I read the Fawzi al-Qawuqji article today, having time only to fix one thing. But the sentence that he

Was also awarded the German Iron Cross, second class, for his service fighting alongside General Otto von Kreiss' Prussians

stopped me in my tracks. Ever heard of him or a Prussian corps in that area in WW1? One sees this repeated as a meme, verbatim all over the net. Could it be a conflation of the Otto in Otto Liman von Sanders and a distorted memory of von Kress in Friedrich Freiherr Kress von Kressenstein-both key commanders assisting the Ottomans in the Middle east in that period? I'd ask Barry Jones, but I don't have his phone number, and we only met once in Collins Book Store in Little Collins Street in 1967, not enough to intrude again.Nishidani (talk) 22:01, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Nishidani, see Laila Parsons (6 February 2017). The Commander: Fawzi al-Qawuqji and the Fight for Arab Independence 1914–1948. Saqi. p. 32. ISBN 978-0-86356-176-4.. She even found a picture of him wearing the medal. Onceinawhile (talk) 22:29, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Never been in doubt about the Iron Cross, he won it at Nabi Samwil and deservedly. Thanks for the link but I did check that following the indication on his page. No mention, as far as I can see of this meme datum Otto von Kreiss. The point was that overall command of the German expedition in WW! in that area was General Otto Liman von Sanders, and it was he who ordered al-Qawuqji to act as an intelligence agent, infiltrating behind British lines and furnish the general staff with field reports. His closest rapport was with a von Leyser. One would expect that to be Ernst von Leyser, lieutenant of the Prussian Army since 1909.Parsons mentions him as a cavalry officer, but in his German bio there is no mention of that chap on the Eastern front. Wiki is crammed with googled stuff that is never cross-checked, as editors google away, fish up and copy and paste the first source that pops up whatever its provenance. Ah well, no time for this. Sorry for the bother.Nishidani (talk) 07:38, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Nishidani: I propose that it originates in the 1972 book "O Jerusalem!" by Collins and Lapierre, which has essentially the same wording "fighting alongside the Prussians of General Otto von Kreiss". No source is given. I don't think that's reliable enough so reducing the text to what Parsons has is probably the best option. Zerotalk 08:04, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
As you were writing that, I was making my corrective edit to the page. Your suspicion is precisely mine, garnered yesterday when I looked into several sources to backtrack what struck me as the usual meme replication. Thanks again.Nishidani (talk) 08:09, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Administrators' newsletter – August 2020

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News and updates for administrators from the past month (July 2020).

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Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 08:21, 1 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Jewish Virtual Library as a source

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I noticed your message to me in Talk:Haifa so I checked the list of unreliable sources and it seems to say that in certain cases exceptions can be made. Direct quote from the list of unreliable sources: "Some exceptions on a case by case basis are possible." It's obviously very partisan in favor of Israel on stuff like it's myths and facts section, but I feel that these concerns are less apt when it comes to simply documenting history of a particular city or town. I think there isn't as much of a problem when citing it in the history section of Haifa so I think a case could be made that we can make an exception this time.--RM (Be my friend) 23:20, 20 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Reenem: There are plenty of unreliable history sources. Two points on JVL: (1) Their hosting of Myths&Facts is proof of their shaky relationship to the truth. (2) The JVL page you are citing draws from Encyclopedia Judaica, including the references at the end which are just copied from EJ. EJ is written by scholars and, even though its history articles understandably focus on Jewish history, it is a reliable source for us. However, the fact that JVL cites EJ doesn't make JVL reliable, since JVL sometimes makes silent modifications of its own. I discovered this in a similar article when I saw a few sentences that I knew to be falsehoods and thought "surely EJ wouldn't have that rubbish"; sure enough, EJ didn't have it. The solution here is rather simple: cite EJ directly. I don't know if you have EJ, but I do and I'll move the citation to EJ after checking it. Regards. Zerotalk 09:10, 21 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

When someone repeatedly restores things without source

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I hope you don't mind it I'm bringing this here. The talk is starting to deviate farther and farther from the article and I wanted to keep discussion from deviating any further. In Frank Gehry, I took it to NPOV/N relatively early seeing where it was headed. The gossip about reputation being the most recent one he reverted back on, and the one before that was about dual citizenship. They're already accusing I'm FORUMSHOPPING for having it taken to NPOV/N. When someone's been told of the policy, does not ask questions about the policy, and continues to restore unsourced information? Would it have been better to open a BLP/N case after the first time they restored it? Graywalls (talk) 10:00, 26 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Graywalls: Continuously reverting isn't allowed, even if policy is on your side. The best thing is to make a case on the talk page first, for a few days at least. That forces the other side to explain their actions (edit summaries don't count for much). A formal WP:RfC can help, but I wouldn't advise it just for some unsourced text that isn't seriously problematic. After a discussion has failed (from your point of view), you can either walk away or post to a noticeboard. Don't take it too personally, life is too short. Zerotalk 10:41, 26 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Administrators' newsletter – September 2020

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Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 09:57, 2 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Administrators' newsletter – September 2020

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Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 15:37, 2 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Beshara Doumani, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Palestinian.

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 07:17, 12 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Notice of noticeboard discussion

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Information icon There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is "Users with indefinitely protected user talk pages". Thank you. Jackmcbarn (talk) 19:19, 27 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Administrators' newsletter – September 2020

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Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 10:44, 1 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Just me

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Hello. I try to find some neutral help and see you are online. Seams there are 1-2 guys who hate me. They attack me all the time, stalking me, try to change my articles and beeing rude to me. An article I wrote is in one diskussion after next. Since nearly 2 Months now!!! I have no Idea what I done to them. I tryed everything. 1 of them starts with vandalism. Doing very rude edits against WP:Bio and against the sources. Just write ppov in the article and this also in a very rude way. See here https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Michel_von_Tell&diff=980267392&oldid=979733489

I dindt say something and tryed to be nice. Just add more sources. But it dosent stop. They come again and again. All the time with other stuff and often in a rude way. I try to be nice, find solutions, try to explain, bring more sources, offer friendship, everything I can. Again and again but it dont stop. :( See here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:BIanca617#Marking_changes_as_'minor'

I not eaven know whats the real problem of this 1-2 guys? Do they hate me, the person from the article, do they hate girls here, are they anti jewish (i read the person of the article is) or is it normal here to be rude? are there many rude people here? I have no Idea:( In wiki rules they say other stuff? I dont know what to do or who I can talk to. Tryed everthing I can but I cant find a good, nice, fair way and also nobody who is helping me? The article is good and well sourced. Every single sentence has 1-2 sources. What else can I do? And I didnt do something rude:( Just did a well sourced article about a record. Much better and much better souced then most other record articles. Look at the normal once Shridhar_Chillal Lee Redmond - Can you help me? I dont want to fight all the time:( Best regards --BIanca617 (talk) 20:08, 8 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Some baklava for you!

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Thank you for the citations to Khalidi and the info about the local map for the Kiryat Gat page! NYCJosh (talk) 21:43, 17 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

A YouTube video that will interest you

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Hi, Zero0000, I have decided to give you a link to a most recent video published on YouTube. When I got to minutes 14:20, it sent goose-bumps all across my body. Please watch from beginning to end. Untold Archaeology of the Temple Mount — Rare Footage, 11 October 2020.Davidbena (talk) 23:18, 19 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks David, I enjoyed the video. In 1993 I was allowed inside both the al-Aqsa Mosque and the Dome of the Rock as part of a tour group. I understand that is now impossible for a non-Muslim. I don't remember if I have your email but if you send me mail I'll give you two relevant papers. One is a Hebrew paper of Dvira (Zweig) about the mosaics, and another is a paper of Yuval Baruch et al. They show photos of some mosaics from an Umayyad palace that look almost identical and therefore they disagree with Dvira about them. You can see Hamilton's photos of the mosaics here. Baruch et al also say that the wooden beams were tested again more recently and dated only to the Byzantine period. Zerotalk 06:20, 20 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I also visited inside the Dome of the Rock back in 1975-1976, as also in the Golden Gate. I wish I had been more studious back-then and knew exactly what to look for.Davidbena (talk) 18:18, 20 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Mail sent to you

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Hello, Zero0000. Please check your email; you've got mail!
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.

Davidbena (talk) 12:06, 20 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Silwan Map

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Hi, I am working on the Silwan article. Looking at the talk discussion, is there any reason why we cannot have your map in the article? Salud.Selfstudier (talk) 11:22, 21 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Selfstudier: No reason that I know of. Zerotalk 12:12, 21 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Walls of Jerusalem

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I'm not arguing about the content, but this isn't under ARBPIA. It's frustrating, but I found out that we can't revert this sort of edit for that reason. Doug Weller talk 15:44, 25 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Doug Weller: I agree that the article as a whole is not under ARBPIA, but ARBPIA now covers ARBPIA-related content of articles and not only whole articles (Item 7). I think that the designation of a place in EJ as Israel vs Palestine is ARBPIA-related content, don't you? On the other hand, you are correct that this was not a valid reason for my revert, since the article doesn't have the required templates—in this case {{ArbCom Arab-Israeli editnotice|relatedcontent=yes}}. I'll add them unless you give a good reason why I shouldn't. Zerotalk 01:31, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Arbpia3 policy. Possible gaming?

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See here. Has this issue been covered in the relevant policy debates? Nishidani (talk) 21:08, 25 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Administrators' newsletter – November 2020

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Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 11:53, 1 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Not a pogrom?!!

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Greetings! I would like to understand why you reverted my addition of 1920 Nebi Musa riots to the CAT Anti-Jewish pogroms by Muslims. Was it not aimed specifically at Jews? Was it not a Pogrom (a violent riot aimed at the massacre or expulsion of an ethnic or religious group)? A speech claiming "If we don't use force against the Zionists and against the Jews, we will never be rid of them" would seem to clearly indicate a desire to expel the Jews and the actions of the mobs over four days certainly seemed to lean towards massacre, as well, with 5 Jews dead, 216 wounded of which 18 critically. Was it not committed by Muslims? I can see no reason why these riots do not meet the criteria for the CAT, so please explain why did you pull the link out? --Eliyahu S Talk 20:48, 17 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Eliyahu S: I'm opposed to the use of categories to label events in a way that represents an opinion that historians disagree on. The alleged quotation you give is a fine example: in the article a well-known historian strongly disputes it and reports that Zionist intelligence reports of the time state the opposite. It is fine that both views are represented in the article, but it is not fine to select one of those views for categorisation. Zerotalk 03:39, 18 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Gentle ping w.r.t. Talk:Ghabat Kafr Sur#Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 7 September 2020

[edit]

Are there any parts of my suggested addition that remain unsourced? --Crash48 (talk) 19:31, 19 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Ping again. For your convenience, and to avoid the hassle of putting snippets from Google Books together to read the full fragment being cited, I've posted both referenced pages to https://imgur.com/a/4TMhYwX --Crash48 (talk) 13:16, 20 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Emir Abdullah

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Hi. I remember reading a source/content on Wikipedia describing Britain (specifically Samuel, Brunton, Churchill and Deeds) initial opposition to Abdullah’s ambitions in Transjordan when he arrived to Ma’an on 21 November 1920 (a few months before the Cairo conference and the change in policy). Any idea which? I completely forgot. Also @Oncenawhile:, @Huldra:, @Al Ameer son:. Makeandtoss (talk) 23:45, 21 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Establishment of the Emirate of Transjordan (used to be Abdullah's entry into Transjordan) and Sharifian Solution they don't seem to have all those characters in them tho.Selfstudier (talk) 17:50, 23 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

+== ARBPIA4 ==

Hi. Must I have both of 'ArbCom Arab-Israeli editnotice' and 'Arab-Israeli Arbitration Enforcement' for it to be of any use? Selfstudier (talk) 17:51, 23 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Selfstudier: Alas, yes. See Wikipedia:Arbitration/Index/Palestine-Israel_articles#Standing sanctions upon primary articles. The catch is you need either page-mover or template-editor power to add the editnotice. You can apply for page-mover at WP:PERM/PM. You can say that you want to add editnotices, which is permitted for any user (not only uninvolved users). If you are successful, to add an editnotice click the page-wide "edit" button (not the first section edit button) and you will see an "editnotice" link. If you are not successful, either (a) ask me, within limits, (b) ask at WP:RPP. Zerotalk 19:46, 23 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
That got turned down, I think I will just content myself with placing the enforcement one, that's probably enough to deter most troublemakers. I have enough things to do without going back and forth bothering you or requesting things. Thanks for help.Selfstudier (talk) 00:22, 27 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Selfstudier: You made the mistake of not specifying you wanted to add editnotices, and the admin response confirms that. Zerotalk 01:50, 27 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I thought it was clear if I said Israel Palestine, obviously not. Ah well.Selfstudier (talk) 12:45, 27 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Selfstudier: The ability to add editnotices is quite a new feature of the PM flag. Zerotalk 13:24, 27 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Your comment helped, thanks. Primefac deferred to another admin and bradv gave me perms for 3 months.Selfstudier (talk) 08:57, 29 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I added the editnotice at COVID-19 pandemic in the State of Palestine and at West Bank bantustans, if you have a moment just check that I didn't mess it up somehow, please.Selfstudier (talk) 11:24, 29 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Selfstudier: If a substantial part of the first article is not about the I-P conflict, consider using the variant {{ArbCom Arab-Israeli editnotice|relatedcontent=yes}} instead. I didn't check, so I have no opinion. Zerotalk 11:45, 29 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, that could be sensible, the previous ups and downs were mostly the usual "Palestine is not a state" /page title kind of thing. The rest, which is mostly factual data summaries, doesn't cause too many problems, just once or twice. I'll change it (and the enforcement) and see how it goes. Thanks.Selfstudier (talk) 11:52, 29 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

ArbCom 2020 Elections voter message

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Hello! Voting in the 2020 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23:59 (UTC) on Monday, 7 December 2020. All eligible users are allowed to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.

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Criticism of Amnesty International

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That article exists because the length and level of detail involved would not fit if there was an attempt to incorporate the material into the main Amnesty International article. That's why we have articles such as "Criticism of the BBC" etc. AnonMoos (talk) 22:43, 28 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@AnonMoos: Right, but why is it "Criticism" rather than "Praise"? The title sets up the article to be an NPOV violation. I don't think that an article which collects only criticism can possibly satisfy NPOV. If it has to exist, it should have a neutral name like "Commentary on Amnesty International" and collect both positive and negative opinions. Zerotalk 01:00, 29 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The title "Criticism of Amnesty International" is not NPOV, unless you think that Amnesty International is inherently beyond all criticism (by divine right or something). "Amnesty International is a stinky garbage" would be NPOV. The potential problem with such "Criticism" articles is that they present a limited and selective view of their subjects. However, this has been accepted on Wikipedia as a lesser evil in cases where discussing such criticisms at a length and level of detail which is justified by their notability results in an amount of text that can't usefully be incorporated into the main article on the subject. Imagine what the main "BBC" article would be like if it included all of the text from the "Criticism of the BBC" and "BBC controversies" articles! And you could be considered naive for asking where the "Praise" articles are -- praise tends to be kind of inert (does not usually attract much attention), while criticism often generates rebuttals and causes controversy and/or is part of a previously-existing controversy, leading to a cascade of acrimony. You may not like it, but that's kind of what human nature is. However, you could get together with the Torrance Community Dance Group and do an interpretive song-and-dance routine in praise of Amnesty International, if you feel that's necessary. AnonMoos (talk) 06:50, 30 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@AnonMoos: Probably you mean POV, not NPOV. Nowhere did I say that criticism was inappropriate, nor did I say that we should have a "Praise" article. Your example "BBC controversies" actually illustrates my point and is quite similar to my suggestion "Commentary on Amnesty International". "Controversies" suggests a two-way exchange of views, whereas "Criticism" suggests only one-way negative views, a clear and obvious violation of the NPOV policy. What the point of your last sentence is, I have no idea, but I'll assume you are not trying to be offensive. Zerotalk 08:43, 30 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Haven't you ever heard the song "Praise You" by Fatboy Slim? It was number 1 in several territories, and number 1 on the dance music charts in several others. Since the 1990s, I haven't listened to much radio except NPR (and in recent years not even NPR), but I've still heard it, and seen the music video...
Consider that I said "NPOV violation", then -- but it's quite ridiculous and absurd to claim that the title "Criticism of Amnesty International" is itself an NPOV violation (unless, of course, you feel that Amnesty International is intrinsically beyond all criticism). We have an article "Commentary on Palestine: Peace Not Apartheid", but that won't get rid of all "Criticism" articles, since "Palestine: Peace Not Apartheid" is a book (not an organization)... AnonMoos (talk)

Administrators' newsletter – December 2020

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Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 02:37, 1 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Merger

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A while ago you proposed merging Dhimmitude to Bat Ye'or at Wikipedia:No_original_research/Noticeboard/Archive_43#Dhimmitude. I agreed to it and so did @Nishidani: and @Warshy: and there was no disagreement. What is the way to do this? Is it to follow the instructions at Wikipedia:Merging#Proposing_a_merger?VR talk 21:20, 7 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sockpuppet investigation that may be of interest to you

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Hello Zero,

This user's socketpuppet investigation may be of interest to you https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Infinity_Knight , with a CU check confirming same geolocation. This user had reverted one of your edits on the Khairallah Talfah article, then subsequently reverted edits later under a brand new Wikipedia account and then under an IP address. Since you're an administrator that has edited on some of the same articles as the user under SPI, please take a look if you have a chance. Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Saucysalsa30 (talk • contribs) 21:33, 15 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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