Communicating Configurations of Knowledg
Communicating Configurations of Knowledg
Communicating Configurations of Knowledg
XXI 2013
sagarjournal.org
Special Feature
THE INTERVIEW
SLS — You have translated several different genres of writing from Hindi,
Urdu, and Gujarati to English and have employed a number of innovative
translation strategies throughout your career. Can you talk a little about
the role of translation in your work? When have texts alone proved in-
adequate? When has it become necessary to supplement your texts with
visual materials, appendixes and glossaries?
>> fida husain in bhakt narsi mehta / natya shodh sansthan, kolkata 67
Kathryn Hansen
SLS — How have your various strategies for translating, editing and an-
notating different genres of writing evolved? How have they overlapped
with other aspects of your scholarly work?
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SLS – For those who know you primarily as an expert on Indian the-
atre, can you speak a bit more about your early work on Phanish-
warnath Renu? What unique challenges arose in translating Renu’s
writings? Why had his work resisted translation for so long?
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Kathryn Hansen
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Kathryn Hansen
Fig. 2: Postcard of the Empire Theatre, Bombay, 1920s / Phillips Antiques, Mumbai
vironment of Bombay and a cultural artifact in its own right. Can you
explain why you thought that translation of this text into English was
“long overdue”?
KGH — I first translated some passages from Gupt for my own use. As
time went on, I realized it was a core reference for me and could be
useful for others as well. True, it was pretty dry, mainly an assemblage
of details, not much narrative or analysis. To round it out, I intervened
quite a bit, both to clean it up and correct some errors and to make
it more appealing. The translation is not a book you can easily read
cover to cover, but you can look things up in it, and it has an interest
for the specialist. The apparatus was driven by the scope and variety
of Parsi theatrical productions over a long period. Gupt was not an
impartial source: but he understood the secular moorings of Parsi the-
atre and gave credit to all the communities involved with it. I suppose
I translated this work to provide legitimacy to a forgotten art. When
phenomena have a published history, they seem more real. Unless
the history is published in English, however, it lacks authority, to say
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SLS — Can you think of other works like this that might be translated
into English? What kinds of theater, performance, and autobiography
archives—a few of which you mention in Stages of Life — might con-
tinue to be sources for future scholars who hope to contribute to the
kinds of historiography that you have developed in your own scholar-
ship?
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Kathryn Hansen
KGH — Yes, and sometimes that poet gets support to emerge due to in-
tellectual trends that might seem quite tangential. I had already been
intrigued by the idea of multivocality when I began writing Grounds
for Play. In Chapter 1, I experimented with crafting a multistranded
narrative, playing off different sources (Renu’s short story, the libretto
of Sangit Nautanki, some interviews with actors) against each other.
This kind of interlaced structure is now ubiquitous in TV serials and
novels. But it’s still not that common in academic writing. Similarly,
with Stages of Life, my thinking about autobiography was influenced
by deconstruction and performance theory. The word and its mean-
ing had lost the aura of permanence and truth; canonical texts were
no longer viewed with the reverence of old. This was a huge boon for
folklorists and people who were working on popular culture, since it
opened the door to all kinds of projects. The possibility of meaning
being always fluid, always constructed in performance, really created
an expansive space.
This theoretical shift freed me to take even greater liberties in
translation. With the autobiographies of Parsi theatre actors, I had lots
of misgivings about reliability, whether the narrators were telling the
truth. It turned out that a couple of them didn’t even write their own
autobiographies; they used collaborators or ghost writers. But they
were all great raconteurs, able to talk about themselves with gusto at
great length. I had to cut all of the autobiographies severely, take out
a lot, trying to leave the juiciest bits. In this book, I think I achieved
the right balance of commentary to translation: about 50/50. There’s
a lot of information on the authors and the theatre contained in foot-
notes, appendices, and introductory material. I also have several sec-
tions that are totally interpretive or theoretical. Maybe translation in
this case was an occasion for me to perform, so to speak, to develop
themes and elaborate upon them. Those actors’ voices gave me an op-
portunity to orchestrate translation with background material and re-
lease layers of meaning.
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Special Feature
SLS — Can you say more about how your training in Indian classical
music has come in handy at various points throughout your career?
How has your musical background shaped your research and your ap-
proach to translation?
KGH — For a long time, I was interested in Hindi and literary mat-
ters in India, while on a completely separate track I was immersed in
learning Hindustani (and later Karnatak) music. I had the good for-
tune to meet and study from a great master, the sitarist Nikhil Baner-
jee, while I was a graduate student. That experience carried me into a
depth of appreciation that was quite transformative. For a number of
years after finishing my PhD, I practiced sitar religiously, and when I
lived in Canada I performed publicly and also organized a number of
musical events.
The musical aspect of my engagement with South Asia merged
with my academic work when I discovered Nautanki, a folk opera
form. For the first time, I
was able to focus on a literary
tradition that relied on music
for its unique character. My
training in Indian classical
music enabled me to get be-
yond the negative appraisal
of Nautanki’s musicality.
Most recordings of Nautanki
singing at that time were
quite distorted. The tech-
nology wasn’t up to the job
Fig. 3: Record jacket of the Nautanki Sul-
of capturing the traditional tana Daku, 1970s / Personal collection of
outdoor presentation style, Kathryn Hansen
where actors sing with full voice and often in high register. I realized
by interviewing singers that the melodies were formulaic but very ap-
pealing, and that the entire musical ensemble (including drumming
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Kathryn Hansen
SLS — Can you think of a way, perhaps using digital archives, that
scholars might more readily present to readers the musicality and me-
ter of forms of Indian theatre and performance? What should be the
role of scholarship more generally in efforts to archive, preserve, and
promote such forms (an effort you yourself undertook for Nautanki
sangits)?
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SLS — Let’s return to “old media” for a moment — can you talk about
your experiences having a dual publishing life in the United States
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Kathryn Hansen
and India? What have been the rewards of publishing in both places?
What kinds of relationships, legalities, and sensibilities must one
negotiate in order to do this effectively? Have you ever felt there was
something you couldn’t say, had to say differently, or needed to say
more emphatically in either context?
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Special Feature
and gender formation, the veteran artist Fida Husain was sitting in
the front row, eagerly taking it in. He had been a female impersonator
himself in his youth. The academics in the audience responded in
their usual style, but he gave an appreciation in Hindi at the end that
touched me the most.
As far as legality is concerned, earlier in my career I never worried
about it. Piracy was the norm and nobody bothered about copyright.
That’s still true in some cases, but there’s more of an attempt now in
India to clear copyright and get permissions. With the Gupt book, we
had to find the heir, who was a Superintendent of Police in Rajasthan,
and get his consent—not easy! Over this duration, academic publish-
ing in India has taken enormous strides and played a huge role in fos-
tering South Asian studies globally. I’m immensely gratified to have
been published by Rukun Advani’s press, Permanent Black. It’s only
ten or eleven years old, but it has done remarkable work.
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Kathryn Hansen
it was still a notch more sophisticated than their own folk dramas.
It had an allure, a promise of classiness that was carried through its
Urdu verses. For cosmopolitan audiences, Parsi theatre did the same
thing on a larger scale. It projected a European style of representation,
drew on a broader universe of dramatic situations and tropes, and was
linguistically quite eclectic. In each case, the appeal seems to be the
expansion of boundaries, the encounter with new worlds. There is a
desire to explore at the leading edge, which the language is able to
facilitate because of its inherent plasticity. I’ve enjoyed working with
this set of cultural media since Hindi links them all. These forms also
defy some of the usual assumptions about social hierarchy, especially
in the mutual exchange between the local and the cosmopolitan.
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Kathryn Hansen
1986 — Renu, Phanishwar Nath. The Third Vow and Other Stories.
Translated by Kathryn G. Hansen. Delhi: Chanakya Publica-
tions, 1986.
1986 — Hansen, Kathryn. “Bharatiya Lok Paramparaen Aur Adhunik
Rangmanch [Indian Folk Traditions and the Modern Stage].”
Natrang (New Delhi) XLVI (1986): 22-29.
1988 — Hansen, Kathryn. “Tisri Kasam (The Third Vow): The Story
and the Film.” Journal of South Asian Literature 23, no. 1
(Winter-Spring 1988): 214-22.
1988 — Hansen, Kathryn. “Renu Ki Anchalikta: Bhasha, Rup Aur Vidha
[Renu’s Regionalism: Language, Form, and Genre].” Alochana
(New Delhi) 87 (1988): 37-54.
1988 — Hansen, Kathryn. “The Virangana in North Indian History:
Myth and Popular Culture.” Economic and Political Weekly
23, no. 18 (Apr. 30, 1988): WS25-WS33.
1992 — Hansen, Kathryn. Grounds for Play: The Nautanki Theatre of
North India. Berkeley: University of California Press, 1992.
1998 — Hansen, Kathryn. “The Migration of a Text: The Indar Sabha in
Print and Performance.” Sangeet Natak 127-128 (1998): 3-34.
1999 — Hansen, Kathryn. “Making Women Visible: Female Imperson-
ators and Actresses on the Parsi Stage and in Silent Cinema.”
In Women, Narration and Nation: Collective Images and Mul-
tiple Identities, edited by Selvy Thiruchandran. New Delhi:
Vikas Publishing, 1999.
2001 — Hansen, Kathryn. “The Indar Sabha Phenonmenon: Public
Theatre and Consumption in Greater India (1853-1956).” In
Pleasure and the Nation: The History and Politics of Public
Culture in India, edited by Chris Pinney and Rachel Dwyer.
Delhi: Oxford University Press, 2001.
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2002 — Hansen, Kathryn. “Parsi Theatre and the City: Locations, Pa-
trons, Audiences.” Sarai Reader 2002. The Cities of Everyday
Life (2002): 40-49.
2003 — Hansen, Kathryn. “Languages on Stage: Linguistic Pluralism
and Community Formation in the Nineteenth-Century Parsi
Theatre.” Modern Asian Studies XXXVII, no. 2 (2003): 381-406.
2004 — Hansen, Kathryn. “A Different Desire, a Different Femininity:
Theatrical Transvestism in the Parsi, Gujarati, and Marathi
Theatres, 1850-1940.” In Queering India: Same-Sex Love and
Eroticism in Indian Culture and Society, edited by Ruth Vani-
ta. New York: Routledge, 2004.
2005 — Gupt, Somnath. The Parsi Theatre: Its Origins and Develop-
ment. Translated and edited by Kathryn Hansen. Calcutta:
Seagull Books, 2005.
2005 — Hansen, Kathryn and David Lelyveld, eds. A Wilderness of
Possibilities: Urdu Studies in Transnational Perspective. New
Delhi: Oxford University Press, 2005.
2009 -- Hansen, Kathryn. "Staging Composite Culture: Nautanki and
Parsi Theatre in Recent Revivals." South Asia Research 29, no.
2 (2009): 151-68.
2011 — Hansen, Kathryn. Stages of Life: Indian Theatre Autobiogra-
phies. New Delhi: Permanent Black, 2011.
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